We only have 4.5 million people in our ENTIRE state! And damn near half of them are bellied up to the welfare trough in one way or another! But Mn wants to have all the aminities of a high-population state, yet without the tax-base to pay for it...
Freeway 35W/35E is part of the national-highway system, and out state gets fed-dollars for those roads, but we ALWAYS spread that money too thin by adding lanes and widening coridores year after year while we keep our fingers crossed that the old shit won't crumble away as we neglect it... Well, our DOT bet wrong!
We have a trememdous climate-extreme in this state, it freezes to over -40deg in january and blasts to over 100 in july, thus the expantion.contraction issues for steel and concrete are amplified in this state beyond most others, then you compound that with the fact we salt the FUCK out of our roads in the winter, and the corosion issues on an all-steel I-beam bridge like that one are bound to accelerate.
I know that bridge well, we have a loft/converted warehouse district right by it called the "Mississippi-Mile" where I called home for years, infact that bridge was in view from my old balcony and I bike under it countless times due to the public bike-trail system going under it from west-bank to East-bank... Some of our older bridges are more concrete/stone but this one is mostly a steel super-structure, I suspect that stress-fatigue will be found to blame when all the men with pocket-protectors get done with their analysis...
Bottom-line... The political-issue that this creates is going to be expolited, and several half-truths will tossed out, but the REAL problems came a generation ago when too much was built with too little funding... (The James J. Hill bridge, just down stream from the 35W bridge is at least 100 years older, was privately funded from railroad money, and is in better shape that this relatively "new" bridge that just fell in the river! But, james J. Hill didn't have the federal-gov in his ass when he built it either!)
I am so tired of "wake up calls." This country and its leaders have been hitting the snooze for 40 years.
Roosevelt built the infrastructure. Eisenhower the highway system. Don't worry Republicans, our taxes won't be raised. Don't try, Democrats, if they are they will be squandered and stolen.
We only have 4.5 million people in our ENTIRE state! And damn near half of them are bellied up to the welfare trough in one way or another! But Mn wants to have all the aminities of a high-population state, yet without the tax-base to pay for it...
Freeway 35W/35E is part of the national-highway system, and out state gets fed-dollars for those roads, but we ALWAYS spread that money too thin by adding lanes and widening coridores year after year while we keep our fingers crossed that the old shit won't crumble away as we neglect it... Well, our DOT bet wrong!
We have a trememdous climate-extreme in this state, it freezes to over -40deg in january and blasts to over 100 in july, thus the expantion.contraction issues for steel and concrete are amplified in this state beyond most others, then you compound that with the fact we salt the FUCK out of our roads in the winter, and the corosion issues on an all-steel I-beam bridge like that one are bound to accelerate.
I know that bridge well, we have a loft/converted warehouse district right by it called the "Mississippi-Mile" where I called home for years, infact that bridge was in view from my old balcony and I bike under it countless times due to the public bike-trail system going under it from west-bank to East-bank... Some of our older bridges are more concrete/stone but this one is mostly a steel super-structure, I suspect that stress-fatigue will be found to blame when all the men with pocket-protectors get done with their analysis...
Bottom-line... The political-issue that this creates is going to be expolited, and several half-truths will tossed out, but the REAL problems came a generation ago when too much was built with too little funding... (The James J. Hill bridge, just down stream from the 35W bridge is at least 100 years older, was privately funded from railroad money, and is in better shape that this relatively "new" bridge that just fell in the river! But, james J. Hill didn't have the federal-gov in his ass when he built it either!)
to our civil infrastructure problems. You are correct on many points and in my opinion it all begins with design.
Unlike the aquadects of the Roman Empire, today's civil structures are built for obsolescence. The casino hotels in Las Vegas are built for 20-years, for example. It's called cost value engineering and it is a design principle practiced to build our bridges, airports and the big dig in Boston.
To me it is another word, for "we don't have enough money to build it right" the first time. Ever heard the expression, "penny wise, pound foolish", well that explains cost value engineering.
Now in one way obsolescence is good. The economic cycle of build and rebuild is great for the production of automobiles, consumer products, and of course construction firms. This economic cycle allows for continual production and thus mo' money, mo' money and jobs. In addition in today's world, styles change, it's out with the old, in with the new.
It's bad when we do not have the tax base to rebuild and we have to use bridges beyond it's estimated life span. Maintenance as you stated can only go so far when steel structures are concerned and that includes reinforced concrete. The thermal dynamics on steel puts enormous pressure on steel trusses, joints, bolts, connectors etc.
Quite frankly, this continual policy of deferred maintenance may lead to more tradegies i.e. our water, transit and our highway systems. I am sorry someone had to die in Minnesota, but unfortunately politicians and the public only react when people die. My prayers go out to the families who lost their loved ones.
-- Modified on 8/2/2007 10:16:12 PM
I'm sure one of the regular "progressive" posters will tell us why.
I despise George Bush as much as anyone, and more than many.
But fair is fair, they have known about the problems with the bridge since 1990. Dubya was a flounder in those days.
I guess you could blame Bush I, but the reality is, the failure here was at the local levels.
ANY way you look at it, it is tragic, and it is a situation that needs to be addressed quickly, the disruption of traffic and commerce throughout the area alone is enough to warrant immediate Federal assistance. Let's hope that DC can keep partisan politics out of this one, and focus on helping those who need it.
Of course, I also wake up every morning hoping for World Peace, and see where THAT'S gotten me!
donate blood? Send money to the red cross? I wouldn't classify this incident to be a national emergency, however, Zin, put the politics aside and try to do something fucking positive for once. Maybe something like, hey Minny, sorry to hear the news??
Mountains erode, rivers dry up, coastlines are washed away, glaciers melt and retreat, etc...
Anything made by man will deteriorate [except perhaps for plastic water bottles] and fail. It's as simple as that. The more complex the object, the greater it's use over time, perhaps the sooner the failure.
Even a perfect record of infrastucture investment and maintence cannot prevent an event like this. It's tragic in that it's as unexpected as it is in theory preventable.
To blame political obtuseness here is correct, but it's not nearly close to being the whole of the answer.
If you are so inclined, take a look at an interesting treatment of the subject, "To Engineer Is Human" by Henry Petrowski {?]
We could build things to last longer. Some Roman bridges and aqueducts are still around today.
Now, Romans didn't have cars, and arguably, building for a hundred generations might be called overbuilding. The main reason why we don't build like that, I guess, is that we have a sense of transience. The bridge you build today might not have any use in 40 years.