Lincoln had most of the country against him during the Civil War.. Lincoln was called a buffoon by more than one Northern Newspaper and most if not all in the South despised him.Many issues about Lincoln concerning induction in the army and also the rich getting out of fighting for the North.Did you know if you were of draft age and you paid 300 dollars during the Civil War you did not have to join the Union.Most of us now can look back and say Lincoln did what had to be done and the same thing will be said about Bush in the near future.
Some Civil war history for those that only watch MTV and CNN.......
Draft Riots
One of the bloodiest riots in American history, the New York City Draft Riots erupted on 13 July 1863 and lasted until 16 July 1863. The Draft Riots broke out when officials attempted to enforce the first federally enacted draft. As the Civil War dragged on and troops dwindled, the Union hoped to increase its ranks through a draft that called upon all white men between 20 and 35 and all unmarried white men between 35 and 45. The Conscription Act excluded African American men, who were not considered citizens, and also released men capable of paying $300 to obtain a waiver.
The draft lottery was held at the office located on Third Avenue and Forty-sixth Street, and officials picked more than 1,200 names on the first draft day held 11 July 1863. The next one was scheduled for Monday 13 July 1863. Shortly after dawn that Monday morning, working-class white men protested the draft by going on a looting spree throughout the city. Mobs first attacked the conscription office, protesting the draft law. Then the rioters targeted Republican sympathizers, conscription personnel, and abolitionists who supported the Union cause. They also set fire to buildings like the Brooks Brothers store as well as the offices of the New York Tribune. Within hours of the outbreak of violence, the mobs sought out African Americans, attacking their places of work, institutions, homes, and blacks themselves. For the next four days, white mobs beat blacks, ransacked their homes, set fire to their buildings, and leveled their community institutions like the Colored Orphan Asylum. Rioters injured over thirty African Americans and murdered at least eleven.
The riots had a sweeping effect on New York City's African American population, driving nearly 5,000 blacks from the city. Eight hundred members of the metropolitan police could not quell the riot, so city officials called Union troops back from a battle at Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, and the soldiers restored order on 16 July 1863. William M. "Boss" Tweed and Tammany Hall held the next draft in August 1863. Over 100 black men from the city enlisted in the United States Colored Infantry in order to demonstrate their support for the Union troops.
-- Modified on 7/4/2007 5:07:53 PM
-- Modified on 7/4/2007 5:10:48 PM
What former President does George W. Bush remind you of and why? Please try to give a rational response, Thanks - Will
It's a hard comparison. Bush really breaks the mold for American leadership.
For cronyism, ignorance and detachment, Warren Harding. "Return to normalcy" ("normalcy" being a word that didn't exist till then), was just a wiff of Bush's many malaprops.
But Bush combines it with a criminal recklessness and a grab for power that has no equal among presidents.
Actually; I was thinking of Lincoln. Both were Presidents during unpopular wars, both were belittle for their intelligence (Lincoln was nicknamed “The Original Gorilla” by the political opposition), both had trouble finding the right General to conduct the war, in both cases the war looked won by the other side until close to the end, in both cases the national government took the war to the other sides turf most of the time, and both had unpopular secretaries of war. It is my analysis that to realistically answer this question you need to be a student of US History and have read a book like “Bodyguard of Lies” by Anthony Cave Brown or some similar historical work. Just my .02
P.S. Though I won’t live to see it, I firmly believe that History, in 40 or 50 years, will judge George W. Bush the be in the top 6 Presidents our Country has had.
swings over to the opinion that Bruce Willis was one of the greatest and most underrated actors of our time.
"Every man his own historian" wrote the historian Carl Becker. i don't think that this is what he had in mind.
I checked the calendar, just to be sure. It is July 4th, NOT April 1st.
Oh, yeah, your forgot to mention the scds of statues that will be erected in Dubya's memory.
Huh; please translate?
He means he refuses to look at the facts..he probably thinks Lincoln was loved by all of the South and most of the North.. The hatred that some have for Bush short circuits the rational thoughts they would normally have..
LOL. When you read that post it almost sounds like you're serious. Who are the other 5 on your best list -- Harrison, Grant, Harding, Coolidge and Nixon?
The short list would be George Washingtom, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Lincoln and FDR. Runners up might be Teddy Roosevelt, Harry Truman and Ronld Reagan.
Lincoln had most of the country against him during the Civil War.. Lincoln was called a buffoon by more than one Northern Newspaper and most if not all in the South despised him.Many issues about Lincoln concerning induction in the army and also the rich getting out of fighting for the North.Did you know if you were of draft age and you paid 300 dollars during the Civil War you did not have to join the Union.Most of us now can look back and say Lincoln did what had to be done and the same thing will be said about Bush in the near future.
Some Civil war history for those that only watch MTV and CNN.......
Draft Riots
One of the bloodiest riots in American history, the New York City Draft Riots erupted on 13 July 1863 and lasted until 16 July 1863. The Draft Riots broke out when officials attempted to enforce the first federally enacted draft. As the Civil War dragged on and troops dwindled, the Union hoped to increase its ranks through a draft that called upon all white men between 20 and 35 and all unmarried white men between 35 and 45. The Conscription Act excluded African American men, who were not considered citizens, and also released men capable of paying $300 to obtain a waiver.
The draft lottery was held at the office located on Third Avenue and Forty-sixth Street, and officials picked more than 1,200 names on the first draft day held 11 July 1863. The next one was scheduled for Monday 13 July 1863. Shortly after dawn that Monday morning, working-class white men protested the draft by going on a looting spree throughout the city. Mobs first attacked the conscription office, protesting the draft law. Then the rioters targeted Republican sympathizers, conscription personnel, and abolitionists who supported the Union cause. They also set fire to buildings like the Brooks Brothers store as well as the offices of the New York Tribune. Within hours of the outbreak of violence, the mobs sought out African Americans, attacking their places of work, institutions, homes, and blacks themselves. For the next four days, white mobs beat blacks, ransacked their homes, set fire to their buildings, and leveled their community institutions like the Colored Orphan Asylum. Rioters injured over thirty African Americans and murdered at least eleven.
The riots had a sweeping effect on New York City's African American population, driving nearly 5,000 blacks from the city. Eight hundred members of the metropolitan police could not quell the riot, so city officials called Union troops back from a battle at Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, and the soldiers restored order on 16 July 1863. William M. "Boss" Tweed and Tammany Hall held the next draft in August 1863. Over 100 black men from the city enlisted in the United States Colored Infantry in order to demonstrate their support for the Union troops.
-- Modified on 7/4/2007 5:07:53 PM
-- Modified on 7/4/2007 5:10:48 PM
And so was Jimmy Carter, Richard Nixon, and Bush the first!
They are all like Abraham Lincoln!
For the last fifty years, we've had some of the best statesmanship ever!
You could quote a history book like you're a savant, but are you even aware of how dumb comparing them alike because of unpopularity really sounds?
The most important difference between Lincoln and Bush: Lincoln's policy was successful. He won re-election after Atlanta was captured. The success of Lincoln's policy may have been in doubt up to that time, but it was possible.
Bush's policy is hopeless.
The only other way Bush can become like Lincoln would be to get a bullet in the head.
-- Modified on 7/6/2007 2:29:44 PM
Lincoln had most of the country against him during the Civil War.. Lincoln was called a buffoon by more than one Northern Newspaper and most if not all in the South despised him.Many issues about Lincoln concerning induction in the army and also the rich getting out of fighting for the North.Did you know if you were of draft age and you paid 300 dollars during the Civil War you did not have to join the Union.Most of us now can look back and say Lincoln did what had to be done and the same thing will be said about Bush in the near future.
Some Civil war history for those that only watch MTV and CNN.......
Draft Riots
One of the bloodiest riots in American history, the New York City Draft Riots erupted on 13 July 1863 and lasted until 16 July 1863. The Draft Riots broke out when officials attempted to enforce the first federally enacted draft. As the Civil War dragged on and troops dwindled, the Union hoped to increase its ranks through a draft that called upon all white men between 20 and 35 and all unmarried white men between 35 and 45. The Conscription Act excluded African American men, who were not considered citizens, and also released men capable of paying $300 to obtain a waiver.
The draft lottery was held at the office located on Third Avenue and Forty-sixth Street, and officials picked more than 1,200 names on the first draft day held 11 July 1863. The next one was scheduled for Monday 13 July 1863. Shortly after dawn that Monday morning, working-class white men protested the draft by going on a looting spree throughout the city. Mobs first attacked the conscription office, protesting the draft law. Then the rioters targeted Republican sympathizers, conscription personnel, and abolitionists who supported the Union cause. They also set fire to buildings like the Brooks Brothers store as well as the offices of the New York Tribune. Within hours of the outbreak of violence, the mobs sought out African Americans, attacking their places of work, institutions, homes, and blacks themselves. For the next four days, white mobs beat blacks, ransacked their homes, set fire to their buildings, and leveled their community institutions like the Colored Orphan Asylum. Rioters injured over thirty African Americans and murdered at least eleven.
The riots had a sweeping effect on New York City's African American population, driving nearly 5,000 blacks from the city. Eight hundred members of the metropolitan police could not quell the riot, so city officials called Union troops back from a battle at Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, and the soldiers restored order on 16 July 1863. William M. "Boss" Tweed and Tammany Hall held the next draft in August 1863. Over 100 black men from the city enlisted in the United States Colored Infantry in order to demonstrate their support for the Union troops.
Except that they are both unpopular. Unpopularity in the present doesn't correlate with popularity in the future. Nor does it have anything to do with whether we win the war. If Lincoln had been popular, would the North have won the war?
Yes. So in hindsight, it didn't make a difference?
Also, what you seem to forget was that Bush was incredibly popular. Did that help him win the war? No. It helped him start a war, if anything.
Except that you're making a point that Lincoln, in fact, was even more unpopular than Bush. So, does that mean that the bounce-back is going to be greater?
The real problems with your proposition that Bush is destined to be remembered as a great leader is that first, Lincoln actually wrote intelligently. So, in hindsight, people could figure out his reasoning, and it comes out as very intelligent.
Second, unlike Lincoln's war, we are not going to win. He will leave office with our military buckling. There's no Atlanta to take, no strategic objective to meet, no way we can win, no way the Iraqis can win.
Even if Bush pushes his unpopularity by issuing the draft, there is no way, no way they are going to be putting up statues to him. They're not even going to be naming correctional facilities after him.
Iraq is the worst diplomatic blunder since Britain decided to get into World War I. Everyone in government except Bush himself talks about Iraq in terms of a salvage operation now.
-- Modified on 7/6/2007 7:33:18 PM
When you say everyone, without credentials you are assuming too much.I was referring to the war on terror as somewhat similiar to some of the actions Lincoln took during the Civil War..There wasn't a ACLU to sue Lincoln for opening mail .If we don't stay focused against terrorists they will do the dirty deed and if the terrorists wipe us almost out the survivors will tear down Rushmore to honor President Bush. I am talking after President Bush as I know he will stay focused on the war on terror.
Well, they both have 2 arms and 2 legs.
They both lived at the White House.
They were both married.
They both spelled their names with consonants and vowels.
They both had sons.
They both...
The currently popular spin among Bush supporters has Bush compared favorably to Abe Lincoln. Arrogant, but when held to the strict context of their argument, not entirely false.
My refutation of this spin will have to wait for another thread however.
In answer to willpower's question.... I want to say, "he doesnt remind me of anything presidential, let alone a previous President" but in retrospect...
George W Bush reminds me of Ronald Reagan.
From MY perspective, Reagan was a likeable guy who was more of a figurehead following the directions of his staff, and Nancy's astrologer.
From MY perspective, George W Bush is a likeable guy who is a puppet following the directions of his Master, aka Veep Cheney, and his Guru, Karl Rove.
Reagan valued loyalty above all other qualities in his associates. The loyalty of the "Bushies" is heralded even by their adversaries, myself included. Loyalty is something I understand.
Reagan was a gee-whiz buffoon who mangled language and often forgot the simplest things, although his tragic demise via Alzheimer's is not something I would wish on anyone.
George W Bush is a nightclub comics wet dream when it comes to buffoonery and sheer ignorance of the language. Starting with "new-queue-lur".
I do hope however, that there is never cause for anyone to compare their future President with Bush. That would be bad.
I am going to play the Clinton Card.
OK, I'm not really comparing Clinton to Bush (or Reagon), since Clinton wasn't loyal to anyone (so it's more of a contrast than comparison), but he DID have a loyal following.
I mean, what could be more loyal than taking a self inflicted dirt nap in Ft. Marcy Park?
-- Modified on 7/5/2007 1:51:07 PM
the USA has ever had.
No other president could give a speech like Reagan. No other president was as PRESIDENTIAL as Reagan.
Yes, Ronald Reagan was the very best President the USA has ever had.
He believe in what he said and accomplished lots.
Ronald Reagan SAVED the USA or gave it 20 more years before its demise.
If Hillary Clinton becomes the next President, the USA will be destroyed.