Assume the provider comes to my hotel. If I specfically ask if she is a cop or is she working with the cops before any discussion of services,details, or $s -- am I as safe as possible.
They often want references from us, how can we minimize our risk?
Scroll down this forum and you'll find the answer to your questions.
She can lie, have sex with you then you can be arrested. She can be a cop, do the above, and arrest you herself.
The only truly safe way to play is to not play at all, but what's the fun in that?
Theoretically, you're right, but I doubt very much that any LE will actually have sex with you..... They usually don't even let you grab them or hug them, which is one of the sure tell-tale signs of LE (or rip-offs)....
Providers who think cops have to disclose they are cops if asked are misguided, although I think some ask just to gauge the (potential) client's reaction to make themselves more comfortable. The same goes for hobbiests who ask the same of providers.
If you think an undercover cop has to be honest when asked if she's a cop then you are very badly mistaken. And if your defense argument is "But Your Honor, she told me she wasn't a cop," then you might as well enter a guilty plea.
I don’t know where the idea that the police can have sex with a prostitute and then arrest her came from. The police cannot break the law to enforce the law. They can, and do go undercover and lie to gain enough probable cause to effect an arrest, or further an investigation, but they cannot break the law. A narcotics officer cannot use illegal drugs to assist in the arrest of a drug dealer. An undercover officer cannot participate in a robbery in order to arrest someone else for robbery. There is no exemption of the law for police. If you take a moment and think about the proposition of a police officer having sex with a prostitute, you don’t have to be a Rhodes Scholar to realize it’s bizarre.
Every time a police officer makes an arrest he/she writes an arrest report detailing the circumstances of the arrest. That report is an official report and falsifying the report is a crime in and of itself. Try to imagine the officer testifying in court when defense counsel is asking him or her detailed questions in front of a jury about the session he/she had with the defendant. Common sense would tell any reasonable person that a jury would not vote to convict a prostitute after the arresting officer had sex with her. I have no doubt that female KGB agents used sex to lure men into comprising secret information, but we are not talking about KGB agents here. Many of the female officers are married to male police officers. How do you think the husband would feel about his wife having sex with some strange guy to make an arrest? The practicality of the notion of police having sex with prostitutes makes no sense at all.
The other glaring aspect is the law. There was a case in Los Angeles about a year ago where an undercover vice officer groped a girl in a massage parlor who was subsequently arrested for solicitation of prostitution. The courts have held that in the case of a massage parlor, if the masseuse touches the genitals of an undercover vice officer it is enough to arrest her for solicitation of prostitution. His groping of her was caught on video tape. The groping was done purposely and was clearly not an accident. The police department requested a filing for sexual battery against the officer with the District Attorney. I believe the District Attorney rejected the filing. The masseuse filed a lawsuit against the City and the officer which was settled out of court for an undisclosed settlement. A police officer has no right to touch a person for sexual gratification anymore than anyone else in society.
In many respects these discussion boards are very informative, but they are also wrought with false information. Most people really don’t understand how the law is applied and adjudicated. I think someone sort of guesses how a situation will play out and then puts forth their theory as fact. Other people read the information and assume its fact and before long it’s accepted as undisputed fact among the uninformed. Some of the things I have read on this board as well as other boards are so bizarre that I wouldn’t even know how to structure a response.
Look at this in the way LE does: there are Cops and there are little people.
Who is the judge/jury more likely to believe: the sterling, decorated LE officer or the person accused of prostitution (or for solicitation)? Be real here. The cop could lie his/her ass off, but remember the golden rule: they are cops and everybody else are little people. A HUGE majority of the time they will win.
clam digger - what you say is ideally right but you are so far off the mark on the reality of the situation that it is not fair to give people the idea that they are safe if a male or female cop engages in a illegal activity with them before arresting them.
i know 2 different girls who were arrested (one in NYC and one in LA) after the cop not only had sex with them but did recreational drugs with them. the other cops "recording" the event were witness to the illegal acts. one of the girls was cuffed while still naked and dragged out onto the street and put in a patrol car while naked. the arresting cop had white powder all over his nose at the time of arrest.
so, let's get real here, cops can do whatever the hell they want and the other cops are their witnesses no matter what goes down.
I provide valid information based on professional experience so that the readers know what to expect when dealing with the police. If they encounter unlawful conduct by the police they have several options available to them. You on the other hand have presented a scenario that you either fabricated; embellished an incident which barely resembles the actual occurrence; or are just repeating a story you heard from someone else. In any case bizarre accounts only indicate to the uninformed that there is nothing that can be done when the police break the law.
I have practiced criminal defense law for over thirty years, four years of which were in the Public Defenders Office. I stress the importance of providing an honest account of what occurred to clients because lying to me only jeopardizes their defense. Yet the vast majority either exaggerates, or outright lies. They usually tell me about a multitude of outrageous things the police did during the arrest process. However, when I interview them and get into the details of what actually happened, their stories change dramatically. In cases where the client has been consistent and what they alleged could actually have happened, I suggest several options to seek redress. I strongly encourage them to file a complaint with either the officer’s department, the District Attorney’s Office, the FBI or the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice.
If there is a suspected cause of action, I refer them to an attorney who specializes in bringing civil litigation against police agencies. There have been sizable settlements on incidents far less serious than the story you presented. I am sure these things happen but they are not as common as you indicate. If they were common place, there would be far more attorneys handling these type of cases. You see, civil rights law suits are among the most lucrative because the plaintiff’s attorney gets paid by the defendant, government agency, regardless of the total amount of the settlement. In closing, I would like to remind you that if you hear a story that you are not sure is true and you pass that story along; your credibility can be as compromised as the person who originally fabricated or embellished the story.
If you or anyone you know has encountered any misconduct, amounting to a violation of the law, by the police that occurred in California, I strongly suggest you contact the following law firm.
Manes and Waters
2438 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 2900
Los Angeles, CA 90010
(213) 381-7793
(213) 381-0024 FAX
Clam Digger I agree with you. Most stories are embellished and get juicier as they are passed on from one hand to another, and the police do have to show some validity in their reports. I rarely visit this forum, why I don't know. It is really very good here. Just thought I would offer my experience with LE here in SD. When I got stung, the cop did get NAKED, and stated so in the arrest report. I believe there are different policies in different districts. One thing my lawyer wanted to know was if that was an allowable policy with SDPD. Doubt that women detectives will, but there is one guy here in SD that has no problem at all getting naked, kissing, having you give him a back rub while you are both naked (of course that part was not in the arrest report), then....starts negotiating for anal, or facials to get the dialogue going.....I thought I was safe because I had been sitting on him nude and gave him a massage. When I tried to touch him though, he jumped up and avoided that 'ahem' area.
My case very likely would have been lost if it had gone to trial. The first attorney I hired started sniveling that I should plead guilty because I was not being offered a plea bargain. I figured if there was not going to be any bargain since I had no priors, I was not going to just lay down so easy. It's not like I was going to have to go do any jail time anyway, so F___ them! So I hired another who was quite a guy. It ultimately got thrown out because we went for a speedy trial, and it was summer time and people were on vacation. The state was not "ready" on the 30th day. Never really knew if the state decided NOT to be ready because their guy was VERY naked, and doubt they wanted a jury to hear how much bodily contact there really was. I know that was going to be a big issue if the trial did occurr, because it was very clear on the tape that I had even popped his back, lol.
Clam Digger I agree with you. Most stories are embellished and get juicier as they are passed on from one hand to another, and the police do have to show some validity in their reports. I rarely visit this forum, why I don't know. It is really very good here. Just thought I would offer my experience with LE here in SD. When I got stung, the cop did get NAKED, and stated so in the arrest report. I believe there are different policies in different districts. One thing my lawyer wanted to know was if that was an allowable policy with SDPD. Doubt that women detectives will, but there is one guy here in SD that has no problem at all getting naked, kissing, having you give him a back rub while you are both naked (of course that part was not in the arrest report), then....starts negotiating for anal, or facials to get the dialogue going.....I thought I was safe because I had been sitting on him nude and gave him a massage. When I tried to touch him though, he jumped up and avoided that 'ahem' area.
My case very likely would have been lost if it had gone to trial. The first attorney I hired started sniveling that I should plead guilty because I was not being offered a plea bargain. I figured if there was not going to be any bargain since I had no priors, I was not going to just lay down so easy. It's not like I was going to have to go do any jail time anyway, so F___ them! So I hired another who was quite a guy. It ultimately got thrown out because we went for a speedy trial, and it was summer time and people were on vacation. The state was not "ready" on the 30th day. Never really knew if the state decided NOT to be ready because their guy was VERY naked, and doubt they wanted a jury to hear how much bodily contact there really was. I know that was going to be a big issue if the trial did occurr, because it was very clear on the tape that I had even popped his back, lol.
When I worked - briefly - for the DA's office, we had a definition of a "witness": a person who lies. Cops are always witnesses in criminal cases.
Do you think a cop will tell the truth if he or she had tasted of some forbidden fruit?
Law Enformement..can say anything..
Better Scenario..put the environment in your favor..and have them come to you..or go with your gut feelings.