"So basically if I do anything that he did, it takes her back there again". What likely happened is when she was molested, she blamed herself, and thought it was all her fault. Almost everyone does. Then, to counteract the pain, she built a fortress around the incidents. Her sexual thought life began to get skewed, as it was built on wrong feelings. She naturally avoids pain (don't we all?) and crazy as this may sound, she sort of sees you as her molester. What a therapist can do is take her back, allow her to see her tormenter for what he really is, (hate him for what he did to her), and begin to build on an even foundation. This can take a while, it won't happen on the first visit. It took my wife about 2 or 3 months to go back to her pain, and several more months to put the blame where it really belonged, and when she started to build her sex life over, it included me. Slowly at first, but way worth it in the end. You'll need to decide if you want to let her walk down the paths she needs to, and join her when needed, or seek satisfaction elsewhere until she's ready for you. If you can stand it, the lessons you'll both learn can bring you closer together than you ever thought possible.
-- Modified on 2/16/2007 8:02:31 PM
So it almost happened. I was gonna do it, I had selected a well reviewed provider with incall hours, I just needed to make the call. I was going to cheat.
Then I didn't, I started calling marriage counselors instead. Funny, it took several phone calls before I got a live person, and only 2 of the 5-6 messages I left have been returned. I'm betting the agency would have provided much faster turn-around, even with me needing to be screened! Anyway, the 3 shrinks I did speak to all seemed to agree that "providers" were not the proper answer, and wanted to start counseling. I even made an appointment with a guy counselor, thinking that even tho' he seemed like a quack, at least he had a cock and could kind of understand (he wants $125/hour - half the rate the girl wanted - what a deal!). I could hear one woman counselor frowning over the phone at the mention of "call-girls" .
So then I called the wife - "Honey I'll be late, I'm going to go to this shrink"
She says, "No, don't go alone, we'll have a long talk when we get home and start looking for a therapist together" and she wants to make sure the guy takes our insurance (I do love this woman - things like that).
So I get home, we have the talk, I tell her about it all(almost - she doesn't know how close it really is. I've still got the # in my phone). Everything, not enough sex, finding out about the boards like eros, almost cheating, and calling the shrinks instead. Some sadness, but she is able to be calm, no crying, she's quite reasonable, and complete doesn't understand at all!!! Doesn't get it how horny I am (I told her - take your horniest day, multiply it by 1000, that's my least horny day). She was little grossed out by the idea of pro's but seemed happy that I wasn't talking about a real girlfriend or divorce. And we will be looking for therapists in our network, with the proper hours, and not to far away, etc, etc, etc.
Anyway LG - let me ask you a question. If your man told you this, almost cheated ,but called shrinks instead, all over how F-ing horny he was, would you not fuck his brains out, to the best of your ability, however limited that may be?
Did she?
Well she did slip me the tongue (first time in years,BTW) when she kissed me goodnight and took the Kid up to bed,so that's something. But not alot. Probably be called LFK here-abouts. Did talk about having a nice weekend next week when her mom takes the kid, but as usual, it was "Don't expect any extra today". And don't expect any changes towards her sexual attitudes, cuz that stuff is gross, all the acronym stuff BBBJCIM, DATY, etc. Not that I put it like that, of course, but even the most delicate phrasing doesn't change the fact that it's a dick in her mouth, and she don't go for that.
So she's sleeping ,and I'm back here again. I've stayed away from the reviews and adds, but its creeping back into my head (and pants).
It's crazy, almost like she's daring me to do it somehow. She wants to be cheated on? I just don't get it!!! Of course part of me wants to, then we both get what we want, I get laid and she gets to be the victim. But she could at least give me permission.
AAAARRGGHHH!!!
Well I'll at least wait till after Valentines Day,and see what happens with the shrinks.
Sorry if this post is a downer, and basically contrary to some aspects of the lifestyle here.
But I really need to vent. If not here, it'll be down young Marie's throat, and I need to avoid that, at least for now.
This all sounds pretty familiar, I went through basically the same thing, with similar feelings as yours. To be brutally honest, try not to get your hopes up too much for the weekend getaway, mine were mostly another lesson in frustration, nothing much really happened. Yours may be different though. I'm not a therapist, by any means, but it sounds alot like your wife was sexually abused in some manner, probably as a kid, and never came to terms with it. Remember, abuse is from her perspective here, no one elses. Being forced to kiss her uncle when she was 10 could have been abuse in her eyes. Counseling can almost certainly take her back to the unpleasant time, where she can call a spade a spade, or whatever it is, and move on from there. It worked wonders for my wife, that along with medication (she was bi-polar), was like night and day. I think there's hope for both of you, but you'll have to decide what to do with your desires in the meantime. Best of luck to you!
Well, sifujeff,
Kudos to you for taking action! Now are you asking ME PERSONALLY what I would do, or why I think your wife didn't do what you wanted her to do? Let's go with the latter, except I'll add a twist to it: I'll pretend to be your wife.
No, I wouldn't fuck hubby's brains out, because my amygdala would prevent me from doing it. I'd be so stricken with fear that I'd get quite paralyzed. Therapy? Pros? It all sounds really ominous and life-changing, not to mention just plain scary. So best acknowledge the talk with a little French kiss (outta plain fear, not because I'd really want it)but because that's probably all I could do at that moment.
I don't think threats, entreaties or ultimatums will work in this situation. What will work is actually finding some professional help to get to the bottom of this situation. I mean, you made this kid, so how did that happen? In the dark, missionary and that's it?
I think your wife has serious issues. They are worse than just "sexual hangups." They seem to border on phobias. Where they stem from, I have no idea. But I hope therapy will help you find out. Again, GOOD JOB, you really are trying!!!
Let us know where it goes,
the Love Goddess
You are not ready for the hobby, no way, no how.
Don't even think of it.
If and when the time is right, you will know it. Here's a hint: Calling a shrink first or talking to your wife will be the furthest thing from your mind. Finding ways to hide the evidence will be your chief concern instead.
On the question of a therapist, it is correct for you to see one together, but do not overlook seeing one or your own. You may want to share things along with a therapist that you don't want to bring up in front of your wife. Absolute candor is a must if you are to make any headway.
Best of luck to you and believe me, you are not alone.
Use this board or any others as often as you must.
Venting is encouraged.
Hear ye hear ye.
I agree. Going to a shrink is just another way of getting another opinion. It will not be right or wrong. You will have to make that decision ultimately - it will be YOUR decision.
And while this last bit of information is slightly off topic, I agree about covering the tracks. However for whoever reads this, one of the metaphysical truths about the universe is the more you try to hide something, the more likely it will be brought out into the light. That's just the way the universe works. The moral is (I think)...don't try too hard!
LDU
A deer in the headlights? I guess that makes sense.
As far as her issues, she was molested by her older(adoptive) brother. So basically if I do anything that he did, it takes her back there again. Since he did almost everything short of vaginal penitration, that's all I can have. She's OK mentally with intercourse, but doesn't really like it, partly because, like alot of women, she needs more than that to get her off. Which, of course, I am willing to do, but she doesn't want me to. We tried a vibrating ring today, just made her giggle alot, which was fun, but not really sexual, so she got the vibrator that she likes, and used that. But I wasn't allowed to touch her while she used it.
That's the worst part; I think she would be very sexual if it weren't for that horrible history, so I can see that way it might have been, and that makes me crazy. She told me today, as she kept twisting away from my touch, that the best way for me to see my wife get off would be to put a camera in the house to watch her when no-ones around.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that she does get off, however she does it, I just wish we could do it together as well.
"So basically if I do anything that he did, it takes her back there again". What likely happened is when she was molested, she blamed herself, and thought it was all her fault. Almost everyone does. Then, to counteract the pain, she built a fortress around the incidents. Her sexual thought life began to get skewed, as it was built on wrong feelings. She naturally avoids pain (don't we all?) and crazy as this may sound, she sort of sees you as her molester. What a therapist can do is take her back, allow her to see her tormenter for what he really is, (hate him for what he did to her), and begin to build on an even foundation. This can take a while, it won't happen on the first visit. It took my wife about 2 or 3 months to go back to her pain, and several more months to put the blame where it really belonged, and when she started to build her sex life over, it included me. Slowly at first, but way worth it in the end. You'll need to decide if you want to let her walk down the paths she needs to, and join her when needed, or seek satisfaction elsewhere until she's ready for you. If you can stand it, the lessons you'll both learn can bring you closer together than you ever thought possible.
-- Modified on 2/16/2007 8:02:31 PM
...until you have really given the other (counselling option) a meaningful chance, and then only if, after mutual and sincere effort, your spouse still ignores your desire. From your self-aware post I can tell you will just feel guilty and selfish, otherwise, if you were to hobby now.
I am 55+ and married for 23 years, with adult kids. I went through six or seven years of "communication" counselling and couples therapy (my big issue always has been my wife's diminishing desire and lack of interest in sexual intimacy). I worked on those things about me and my behavior, that my spouse said caused her to feel distant. I never have felt bad about my desire and healthy libido. But it took me a very long time to realize that my wife, a very intelligent, accomplished professional woman, tall and beautiful and a loving mother, would change her attitude about me and our sex life only if and when she decides to change. Nothing I do or say makes any enduring difference. My "sexual tug of war" with my wife caused both of us hurt and frustration for too long. About two years ago, I decided to let go of the rope. No more tug of war, no more making sex a point of contention.
I started hobbying (secretly and discreetly). It has been delightful and educational, and quite a wonderful journey for me. I've met many interesting, sensual, wonderful ladies whose zest and acceptance of sex as a basic human need I find very encouraging. I've re-discovered my self-confidence, feel more joy, energy, youthful. I get along much better with my spouse too, because I no longer tease her or "nag" her about our lack of sexual intimacy. I make love with my wife on those rare occasions when she wants to - once every couple of months - but I no longer blame her or carry around anger or resentment. Instead I feel more acceptng, patient and relaxed around her.
Thank you all for your good advice.
I will be trying counselling before engaging in the hobby. Even though it seems likely that I will be doing it eventually, I think I need to try for my own peace of mind. If it doesn't work, then at least I know about this fantasic resource (TER).
sifujeff, yes, you're to be commended for doing your best to be faithful to your wife, and trying to help her.
But her work with a psychiatrist and/or marriage counselor will take a long time, and she may not take to it.
Only *you* know when (if ever) it's right for you to seek sexual satisfaction elsewhere...either on an interim basis, to carry you though your attempts to improve your marriage, or on a permanent basis, if you eventually decide she will never satisfy all your needs.
The only thing I can offer is: decide what you need, and what's fair to her (just as you are now struggling to do) and then, once you have decided, proceed happily, with resolve and without guilt.
American society enforces, in many subtle ways, this ideal: "One wife should be able to satify all a man's sexual needs." You need to examine your own thoughts and feelings on this issue. Do you believe this is true for you, or not?