A tricky issue, and one with many potentially correct responses. I think it largely is a result of your relationship. If it's a regular friend, that's very different from someone just in town for the day with little chance of seeing him again.
Now I do have a minority opinion on counting the money up front. I want as much of a GFE experience as possible, and both demanding money up front and counting it before any intimacy begins doesn't, in my mind, constitute good GFE.
Obviously, if I've never visited with you before, you are right to be cautious. This is more of a problem with independents than with ladies working for an agency. And I have no problem with polite first-time up-front requests, but I indicate my preference that next time we get together, the money will be lying out in plain view but please do not pick it up or count it until you're about to leave. Following this preference often leads to extra expressions of satisfaction. But that's just me.
Certainly all the ladies are offering great service and part of the service is to be friendly and part of being a good client is to make sure the lady is well taken care of, in all meanings of that phrase.
Hi everyone. I'd like you're opinion about a situation. I saw a client yesterday who didn't pay me until the very end of the date. (Some clients don't know it's customary to pay at the beginning and it's never been a problem before.) This time, however, after he left I realized he shorted me $60.
Now, this was a very nice guy and we had a lovely time together. So I'm inclined to believe it was a mistake rather than intentional (of course, I may be rather naive too).
So my qustion is this: if he calls me again do I:
a) Tell him he shorted me last time so please be sure to pay the right amount this time;
b) Tell him he shorted me last time and request that he pay me the difference from that time plus the regular rate for this time; or
c) Refuse to see him again at all.
I've never come across this situation before. I do believe this client will call me again so I want to be sure I handle it the right way.
Thanks!
Joy
It's really a judgment call on your part. This happened to a fav of mine a few months ago. She is an agency girl and never counts the money in front of the customer...never even verbally acknowledges that the money is in the room. Any, a new guy shorted her $20 but he was very nice so when he asked to re-book she agreed to see him....Two or three appointments go by and the envelope is right every time. Finally, about a month ago she sees him and after he leaves the envelope is $100 short. She calls the office and the phone operator calls the guy. He claims that the bank teller must have shorted him the money and can they "put it on his tab". Needless to say she isn't going to see him anymore...
Tough decision either way but you have to trust your gut.
I would give him a second chance but find a subtle way to check the envelope for a while before he leaves the room.
If you believe that it was a mistake there is certainly no reason to never see him again.
I'm pretty careful about what goes into the envelope, but if I ever did make a mistake I would hope the lady would send me an e-mail pointing out my error and give me some way to get the money to her.
This has happened to me a few times and both times I handled it different. A new friend who I had a great time with shorted me on his way out. He did grab the money out of his pocket and as it was all folded just put it on the nightstand. On the way out I put it in my purse and counted it in the car. It was short so I called him right away which won't work if he has shut his phone off. He was still close, checked his pocket and found the money. Nice guy , came back and gave me my money and I returned his gesture with a nice kiss. We have been good friends ever since. Next time try to call back as long as he has just left. Now another friend who I have seen a few times did the same thing but had his cell turned off so couldn't touch base. When he called the next time I mentioned it to him but didn't say please pay up. We made plans to meet and he made up the difference. Now I didn't count my money ahead but you could if you wanted with someone you have already seen. Can be a deal breaker and a real turn off too. Ask to leave the tip in advance when you speak on the phone next time and mention a little short. Bring up contribution again if you feel comfortable. Good Luck Haley
For the purpose of clarity in the discussion, I'm a hobbyist.
When I walk in, I place the envelope on the nearest flat surface right away. Then I excuse myself to go into the bathroom, with something like: "I gotta go wash my hands". This gives the provider a chance to count the money in the envelope. In case there's an undercount, she can let me know right away, as opposed to after the delivery of services. I've never had a situation like this, but I use the "wash my hands" excuse to guard myself against it.
If you think it was an accident you might want to email/call/Pm (how ever you communicate with him) and let him know the envelope was short.
depending on how he reacts will help you decide if you want to see him again.
Jenny
and every time. It is standard operating procedure.
Excuse yourself to the bathroom to get ready while he gets comfortable, then check to make sure it's all there.
If short, make sure nothing happens until the business is all set.
This makes for everyone being happy.
As for the last date, it's a bit dicey. If he thinks it was all there, then he may think you are trying to pull something. If he pulled something on you, then you are better off without him. Proceed cautiously.
A $60 short sounds odd, perhaps he put 2 20s into the envelope as part of a group of 50s (that error create a 60 error), and could not tell the difference because he did not have reading glasses with him? As one who is over 50, I can tell you that without reading glasses it is hard to tell the two apart, I've made that mistake in stores, then been befuddled by the amount of change (or lack thereof)- enough so that now I always pull out reading glasses to verify what bills I hand the cashier before paying.
It was in my fairly early days in the hobby, and she didn't have an envelope policy. At that time, I would usually just set a aside the donation, so I could hand over a wad, rather than counting out the cash in front of her.
Well one day, I oopsed, mis-counted, had a brain fart, whatever, the wad I handed over was shy a couple of twenties.
So I was driving home after a very nice visit, when my cell phone rings. I pick up, and it is the lady I had just left, who very calmly and politely informed me that I didn't pay the agreed amount for her services. Now this surprises me, and I'm thinking what's going on here? But I pull over, and check my wallet. Sure enough, I found a couple of twenties there that I didn't expect, and on hobby days I am very conscience of just how much cash I have on hand. You never want to show up short, but also, you don't want to be a human ATM in an up-sell situation.
Realizing my error, I asked if it was OK for me come back and make good the situation. Now some cads might imagine an additional round with the provider as a result of this ploy. It wasn't a ploy, but an honest mistake. When I got went back to her place, is was only me apologizing, expressions of my embarrassment, and a peck on the cheek when I paid up. I expected nothing more.
So lessons to be learned:
For the guys - Make sure you have the proper amount in the envelope. In the excitement, and anticipation of a visit, mistakes can be made.
For the gals -
1)honest mistakes can, and do, happen, and honest guys will correct them.
2)always collect AND count the donation at the beginning of the session!!!
BTW - I visited this lady a couple of times after this faux pas, so all was forgiven, and no grudges held.
jazz32
-- Modified on 11/3/2007 8:22:49 PM
With a second visit client. Great guy, no problems the first time, and he was short a 50. I usually count first no matter what, but that day I didn't. I called him after he left, his phone appeared off, but I left a message. He called back and apologized, and offered to bring the money back or send it to me. I was already on my way somewhere, so I asked him to send it to my PO, which he did in a timely fashion. If you have a PO, I'd advise you to request that he send the money right away, before you have to deal with a re-booking. That way, you are communicating, and he is given the chance to make good, assuming it was a simple error.
XoXo
Marea
A tricky issue, and one with many potentially correct responses. I think it largely is a result of your relationship. If it's a regular friend, that's very different from someone just in town for the day with little chance of seeing him again.
Now I do have a minority opinion on counting the money up front. I want as much of a GFE experience as possible, and both demanding money up front and counting it before any intimacy begins doesn't, in my mind, constitute good GFE.
Obviously, if I've never visited with you before, you are right to be cautious. This is more of a problem with independents than with ladies working for an agency. And I have no problem with polite first-time up-front requests, but I indicate my preference that next time we get together, the money will be lying out in plain view but please do not pick it up or count it until you're about to leave. Following this preference often leads to extra expressions of satisfaction. But that's just me.
Certainly all the ladies are offering great service and part of the service is to be friendly and part of being a good client is to make sure the lady is well taken care of, in all meanings of that phrase.
Part of the GFE experience, and a policy with many agencies and indies, is never to mention the donation at all. Some good behavior on the part of the hobbyist is called for here. First of all, don't ever put the lady in a position where she is wondering when and if you are going to pay. Just because she hasn't asked for the donation doesn't mean she isn't thinking about it. Unless you are a regular I can guarantee you that you will have a better time if you walk into the room and place the envelope in plain site at the start of the session. If you haven't done this and it seems like your gal is stalling a bit before the main event well...isn't it obvious what the delay is all about?
Obviously you should double check the amount in the envelope before you give it to her.
The ladies are in a difficult position when it comes to soliciting the donation. Don't make it any harder than it has to be.
Indeed, I don't ever talk about the donation and prefer the gents not to either. But if it is not sitting out, it makes things awkward. It is proper protocol to get it out of the way at the beginning. Your session will be much better if you ease her mind and do it up front, as she will be distracted during the session wondering if you are trying to pull something on her, and may not give as good of a performance, consciously or not, because you have not followed protocol. Indeed, I'm sure agency gals are trained not to start the date until that is taken care of. I'm an independent, and no one "trained" me, but from what I've learned, it is still my own protocol to do this, and I think most would agree. In addition, I could see LE using that as a technique to get the provider to ask for the money verbally, getting it on tape to prove that cash for sex exchange was supposedly going on, which is why some girls will even leave if the donation isn't settled in the first ten minutes without them having to ask for it. Plus, it kills the mood to have to talk about it, but it also kills the mood to have business matters hanging over your heads during the fun part!
XoXo
Marea
-- Modified on 11/5/2007 5:20:34 PM
When you arrive, just put out the envelope and then excuse yourself to use the bathroom. At the least, everyone going to an incall should go and thoroughly wash their hands when they get there. This gives the lady the option of counting it while you are in there if she chooses. This will then preserve the GFE expereince by you not seeing her count it, and she now knows your hands aren't carrying the latest bug going around.
That makes sense that once you get to know a GFE gal, you wouldn't want her counting it out or anything. But at the same time, there are guys who are fine on visit one and visit two or three, they may short you or try to pull something.
My personal rule is that after the first visit, I don't generally count it, as I'm pretty trusting, but I do pick it up and put it in my purse at the beginning.
Part of this is being cautious and discreet. However small the chance, if the police or hotel staff were to knock or barge in for any reason, I wouldn't want to have one more suspicious thing to worry about ie. an envelope of money laying out. That is pretty much the defining factor confirming that a paid service is taking place as opposed to a simple casual fuck-buddy or consensual affair. Everyone knows what "the envelope" means. I like to have the money out of sight as soon as possible.
Secondly, I have been known to be forgetful and/or floating in that post-sex glow and have walked out without my donation. It has happened twice, once when I left the donation sitting on the counter in plain sight where it was the whole time, as I'd simply forgot to look for it at the start, and once when the gent, a long time regular, had it in his wallet and had not remembered to give it to me at the start or the end. This is quite a hassle in that I have a busy schedule and my time is important, as is my clients' and also looks suspicious, to leave the hotel and then come right back, and leave again- could draw undue attention.
Third, I think that while regular relationships are wonderful, and the encounters get more comfortable and relaxed over time, it is still nice to have those basic rules of etiquette and patterns followed each time, just to keep things consistent.
Fourth and finally, another thought, which I've never encountered but very well could, would be if something unexpected were to happen during the session.. ie. a client were to get violent partway through the session, or were to become drunk or start using illegal drugs, or I started to feel weird or intoxicated, as though someone had put something in my drink, I would want to be able to get out of there RIGHT AWAY, without having to stop and look for and/or negotiate over the money, or risk getting the gent even more angry or violent. If I book an hour, and end up leaving after 37 minutes due to a gent getting drunk/drugged or violent with me, the last thing I want to do is negotiate over the envelope or try to make a grab for it. I make it clear on my site that if a gent causes an appointment's early termination, there will be no refund, as that is his fault and he reserved my time, despite the fact that his behavior caused me to leave early. Like I said, this has not happened to me, and I pray never will, but I've heard of gals being attacked or drugged by a client they've seen before, from his second visit to a two year ATF who had gone off his psych meds. Or if there were an emergency, such as a fire drill or a real fire, I would want to have the envelope safely put away and not forgotten in an emergency.
I have a great deal of trust and respect for most of my clients, but we providers do have to think ahead and make sure we take such possibilities into account. I don't think I'm paranoid, and careful screening gives me confidence in what I do, but I think such precautions, which may seem overly cautious but are indeed so simple to do and not causing any additional harm or stress, should absolutely be attended to.
Just my thoughts on the matter!
Also a good point by visiting prof.. that either you leave the envelope out and excuse yourself (I always ask client to wash their hands anyway, as I can be susceptible to UTIs) or if she puts it in her purse and goes to freshen herself up.. you don't have to know if she counts it or not, and most good GFEs would never handle the money in front of you..
XoXo,
Marea
-- Modified on 11/5/2007 10:52:11 AM
Thanks everyone for your great input. I feel better now about giving the guy the benefit of the doubt. If he calls again, I think I'll just mention it so he can choose what to do at that point. I'll see him again if he wants, assuming it was indeed a mistake.
Thanks again!!
First: get the donation FIRST
2nd: TELL HIM! You stated he has never done this
before and you have seen him before so at least you
have some sort of history. BE honest with him!
And YES I would suggest if he does contact you again
suggest that he make up for the last time
Write off the loss as a lesson to you that you should stick to the envelope please first policy.
Have a great time next visit. After the visit, let him know that he shorted you on the first visit and if he would like to make up the loss now or on the next visit you would be greatful.
If he takes care of it keep seeing him and be a good reference. If not, no reference, and no more visits. For the sake of good relations try not to make him feel he has to come up with cash on the spot or that he has to do it at all.
Me, I would apologize and give or bring you the difference.
If I visit her incall I place the envelope down on the coffee table with my cell phone and keys then go wash me hands. If she comes to my hotel room the envelope is leaning against the ice bucket where I have her beverage of choice waiting. I excuse myself to go to the restroom, light candles, or whatever. In both instances, she can count the $ if she wishes and I am not watching.
Any girl that has been in this business any length of time has been shorted. It happens, some guys do it on purpose and others it is an accident but I believe the accidents are probably intentional. Guys are just cheap and think they are getting away with it. Yes, it seems rude when the girls count the money in front of you. I think the best policy with the girl is to get the envelope, suggest he go brush his teeth and use mouthwash (with you providing the essential in the bathroom) and check the funds while he is out of the room. If you've been shorted it's your decision how to address the shortage. If he's a regular I would probably mention it and if he's a newbie I definitely would mention it or otherwise he will see you again and may try to do the same thing.
This just happened to me last week as well. It was the fist time I've experienced this problem and didn't know how to handle it. It happened with a first-time client who I'll probably never see again since he was just here on business. I didn't notice til after I'd left, and I thought it was possible I had actually dropped it somewhere. I decided just to let it go. If he calls again, I'll bring it up.