Politics and Religion

Lies, lies and more lies: ObamaCare vs. TrumpCare
Mr.M.Johnson 4217 reads
posted

Essentially TrumpCare removes the mandate, lowers taxes on high-earners, reduces/removes subsidies.  These mean millions lose insurance because they can no longer afford it.

Is this a good-idea?!?!

Here's 11 lies about ObamaCare - facts/$numbers matter:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/13/opinion/trumpcare-fiction-and-fact.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share
   
My fav is "Premiums are up 25%.  Conveniently the fact that 97% get subsidies is ignored,  And, BTW, premiums increased 7% in 2016 and 2% in 2015

Untruth #8:
“Obamacare is just not working. You know, in the last year alone, premiums are up 25 percent.”
—Mr. Cohn on Fox News Sunday
Fact #8:
That often-cited statistic applies only to individuals who buy unsubsidized insurance through the exchanges (1.7 million people) and those who get their insurance directly from providers (another six million Americans). These two groups account for just 3 percent of Americans.
And while by talking about “last year alone,” Mr. Cohn implies that this is the latest of a long string of large increases, in fact, premiums increased by 7 percent in 2016 and 2 percent in 2015.

Another fav: TrumpCare wants to replace $9K in subsidies with a $2-4K tax credit for low earners
Untruth #9:
“The people who are just above Medicaid but still have difficulty buying their own premiums will…have the ability to use [Health Savings Accounts] to pay for their…healthcare on a tax-advantaged basis.”
—Mr. Mulvaney on Meet the Press

Fact #9:
He is talking about people whose incomes are well below median levels and is offering them the opportunity to save money they don’t have and get the benefit of taxes they generally don’t pay because their incomes are too low. How does taking away the Obamacare benefits and giving them refundable tax credits of $2,000 to $4,000 per person replace subsidies that currently run to as much as $9,874 for older low-income individuals?

And, the fucking Repubs wanna blame CBO.  If this bill goes thru - or something close to it goes they, Dems will be very happy in 2018!

"What were Republican leaders thinking? Something like this C.B.O. score was a foregone conclusion; would it really have mattered much if it were 15 million losing insurance, not 24 million? How was this supposed to work out politically?
Again, I wouldn’t count out the possibility that this law will be rammed through regardless, with budget analyses relegated to the category of fake news. Democrats might even want to hope that this happens, so that there is no question about who to blame if insurance collapses. But the lemming-like way Republicans rushed into this disaster is still amazing."

  http://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/13/opinion/trumpcare-vs-obamacare-apocalypse-foretold.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share

We know Obama lied to get it passed in the first place so please stop with that nonsense.

Second, Obamacare is imploding and HAS to be replaced. Carriers have left in droves leaving many area with only one option to choose. How do you think that affects premiums?

Third, the CBO has a HORRENDOUS history re: HC. They predicted 22 million would sign up through the exchanges when only 11 million did. Think that was an accurate prediction?

Fourth, per the liberal loved NY Times. many people under Ocare couldn't use it bc the out of pockets costs in the form of extremely high deductibles were just too damn high.

Add in the mandate to buy a government approved plan under threat of IRS, a plan that many dont want or need, the loss of their doctor, hospital and/or cancer treatment facility and you really wonder why Ocare is HALF as popular as Dems said it would be?

Obama and the Dems had their shot and they fucked it up. It is one of several reasons as to why the R's hold such an advantage in every lever of government.

Look, they didn't even read the fucking thing, they had to pass it to see what was in it and it was written as a political law not a substantive one that also gave an incentive for companies not to hire more people.  

Other than that its awesome! LOL

Mr.M.Johnson56 reads

It's now up to the fucking Repubs to Make HealthCare Great!  Trump promised "everyone gets coverage and better insurance and $cheaper!"  This proposed plan is 0 for 3!

If this plan or similar passes it'll be great for Dems in 2018.  A lotta voters will tell Repubs "you didn't do your fucking jobs - bye"

They will be compared to reach other for a decade and argued over back and forth. When all the dust settles there will be many valid and factual talking points the R's will have with replacement.

How that number compares to the peeps who would have been better off under OCare no one knows for sure but R's will establish choice and competition into the plans/market and that is a good thing as that should bring down rates and allow people to choose their own healthcare professionals.

The one thing we know for sure is that we couldn't keep the status quo. The ship was sinking.

And even a dimwit like Taffy figured out that the political terrain for Dems in 2018 is a major uphill struggle so don't get your hopes up there either.

Mr.M.Johnson134 reads

Let's discuss ObamaCare vs. TrumpCare in 10 years.  The issue at hand for Repubs is to Make HealthCare Great.  They own the House, the Senate and the WhiteHouse - no excuses Repubs - no fucking excuses!

"Repeal and replace" means exactly what it says:  forgetabout ObamaCare and replace w/something Great

JakeFromStateFarm184 reads

Like the Dems in 2010, the Reps now control both houses of Congress and the White House.  It will be so amusing when they then try to blame the Dems for their MAGA health bill because they couldn't get their act together.

JakeFromStateFarm214 reads

There may well be another law and they can call it the ACHA if they want to.  But THIS law is DOA.  Not because of Democrats but because of Republicans.  It's looking more and more likely that this bill can't even make it out of the House in anything like its present form.  Not many Republicans want to vote out a bill (and have that vote held up to the folks at home) that will never get voted on in the Senate because too many Republicans there hate it.
Now let's see if Ryan can figure out how to make changes that will get it voted on in the House and sent to the Senate.  It will be a BIG challenge.

... why did not Repubthugs  repeal it in the first week in January?   Why are they having so many problems replacing it now?     Why are they keeping parts of Obamacare and not outright getting rid of it?    Why keep coverage for pre-existing conditions?    Why cover kids up to 26 in their parents' policies?    Why keep Medicaid expansion instead of pulling the plug?    Why tax credits?   Why not tell people health insurance is your problem, go and get it?

Here is what Sen. Majority Leader Mitch McConnell told in 2014.  "We will get rid of Obamacare, root and branch".

Hey righties what do you have to say for of this?   Now your side is fucked up and don't know what to do?

Get right what?   What was holding them from repealing on day #1.?   Scared chickens like you?

Trump could not make an Executive order to repeal it. He is doing it the right way and it WILL be repealed eventually. In doing so dems and republicans will be on the same page thus allowing Pelosi and Schumer to take some credit so they stop the repetitive whining that they have been doing.

Posted By: hwy2heaven
... why did not Repubthugs  repeal it in the first week in January?   Why are they having so many problems replacing it now?     Why are they keeping parts of Obamacare and not outright getting rid of it?    Why keep coverage for pre-existing conditions?    Why cover kids up to 26 in their parents' policies?    Why keep Medicaid expansion instead of pulling the plug?    Why tax credits?   Why not tell people health insurance is your problem, go and get it?  
   
 Here is what Sen. Majority Leader Mitch McConnell told in 2014.  "We will get rid of Obamacare, root and branch".  
   
 Hey righties what do you have to say for of this?   Now your side is fucked up and don't know what to do?


-- Modified on 3/15/2017 8:52:41 PM

JakeFromStateFarm228 reads

That is ridiculous on its face.  I mean, since when does anything Obama said remove my right to speak? Oh, and your favorite newspaper just pointed out that the Republican (and your) claim that O-Care is in a "death spiral" is also untrue.  It's got problems, sure, but it's not about to crash and burn.
So, yes, it would be nice if you and the Republicans would stop lying about it.
Maybe when the Republicans' bill crashes and burns we'll find out if O-Care does, too.

Not sure why you are all that defensive.  

My reply was to MMJ. Can you see that through those coke bottle glasses you own bc you are so old?

When MMJ has the balls to admit Ocare was passed on a lie as you did then he can feel free to rip any R he wants, otherwise he is just a hypocrite.

And please point out where I said it was in a "death spiral." I said it was "imploding" Jake and specifically was referring to the lack of competition causing premiums to skyrocket if you actually looked at the VERY NEXT SENTENCE which I guess is too much to ask of you so shortly after your nap.  

Context Jake, context!

Now go back and look at what I actually wrote instead of ASSuming what I wrote. I am sure an apology will be forthcoming. LOL

Reading comprehension was never your forte and being drunk all the time cant help.

You're welcome. :)

JakeFromStateFarm302 reads

So, yes, plain English (not your forte, it appears) says you said I could not express a view.  You really need to write more carefully.
And your tissue-then defense got even more ludicrous when you pointed out you didn't say "death spiral," just "imploding." LMAO!  Like there's a big difference? You really are transparent.  You've been hanging out with ed too much, oh Tendentious One.
I guess I should have specifically referred to the premium increases and lack of competition instead of agreeing with you that the ACA has problems.  Apparently I must have been referring to other problems -- at least in your tiny mind.  Oh, wait, there aren't any other problems! You are the one who needs a nap.
How's that for an apology? LOL!

GaGambler165 reads

You did put "death spiral" in quotes although Jack NEVER used the term.

For a pedantic putz you sure are sloppy when it comes to your own shit.

Jack also never said you could not "express a view" he plainly said "lecture" and after all the lies your side told in order to sell the unsellable ACA, you have given up (or at least the moral right) the right to lecture to anyone about the subject.

JakeFromStateFarm287 reads

The term "death spiral" is what many, many Republicans use for the ACA and also is what the Times (whose article I attached) also used.  And Jack used a term that is basically synonymous and ludicrously tried to say it wasn't.  And then you, King of Deflection, jump on a classic "distinction without a difference."
And then you go even farther, stating that to "express a view" and "lecture" are such terribly different things.  If I played "gotcha" with you over such minutia you'd bellow about how petty I was being.
Carry on, Your Highess!  
LMAO!

GaGambler272 reads

I won't call you an out and out liar,  

Oh fuck it, that's the only thing I can call you. The post is right there for everyone to see and you are still denying it. There really is no hope for you. I hereby forbid you to use quotation marks until you and LTM&L take a night school class together on how to properly and honestly use them.

JakeFromStateFarm277 reads

I would send you to JDU for remedial courses in English Comprehension but I have had to revoke their license for gross negligence and incompetence.
Your "reading" of my post (along with Mr. Duncey) is so woefully deficient I can only label you TSTTT.

for your on good, I have enrolled you in the "Mattradd School of Quibbling and Parsing." You will feel quite comfortable at what the locals colloquially call "Pacific Pedantic University."  

There, they are forced to run every thread to the far right hand column so you will have a leg up on the competition. Best to you there, pops. Sorry, not everyone can be a Dunphy man.

If you look at what you wrote Jake, you actually placed "death spiral" in parentheses in your reply to me which would show you quoting me verbatim.

Again Jake, I never used that phrase so your use of parentheses is WRONG. And me stating what "imploding" meant to me, again, in the very next sentence, proves I was differentiating between a "death spiral" and an "implosion." But let's not let facts get in the way of your inane and insipid response.

Sorry for all the explanation but when I am conversing with a "man" who has to have a Visiting Angels worker come by thrice daily to cut your food, I felt the need to be thorough.  

I am so glad I can clear this all up for you. Taffy tells me Matt likes McIntosh apples. So stock up and get there early to find that seat in the front row. You know, with the hearing aid issues you have been having lately and all.

Hang in there bro. This too shall pass. Just like that 2 pounder you are about to drop off at the ceramic pool. ;)

JakeFromStateFarm221 reads

because you have won today's Pot=Kettle=Black award with oak leaf clusters for Extra Tendentiousness.
Also, your right to teach any course in Comprehension (even 101) is hereby revoked, especially for punctuation.  Why?
Because you haven't even a CLUE what parentheses are for.  They are NOT, as you say for "quoting verbatim."  That's what quotation marks are for.  Parentheses are for enclosing a "parenthetical" (get it?) phrase, or something related to, but aside from, the main point of the sentence.
For god's sake, Jack, please stop because you are just embarrassing yourself now.
I will be shipping you a bushel of McIntosh apples.  Your Visiting Angel will be bringing them to you along with a new battery for your hearing aid.  And some Namenda XR.
LULZ!

Except for the fact that I fucked it all up. LOL

Seeing what drinking and seeing hookers has done to me?

Pretty good post until i confused those two damn things.

Touche Jake. Maybe I will chug your Metamucil and give you the night off. lol

JakeFromStateFarm152 reads

I promise to include a case of Geritol with those apples.  Also, more Namenda.

JakeFromStateFarm236 reads

so is the Trump budget.  This from House and Senate Republicans. Delicate Donnie can't win for losing.

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