...in 1917!!!
And Putin started attacking the press (literally) in his first year in office.In this case it is Trump's accusation of the MSM.
P.S. Oh, and Ed, before you make the charge: "No, more fake news from Nolan McCaskill," try googling "Trump enemy of the people," and see how many other news sources reported on it! 
The thing is no one reads this shit outside of strong liberal strongholds. Most Americans don't give a shit and aren't paying attention to anything outside of their tiny sphere of life. When he lowers taxes, he'll coast to reelection. People will tune back in in 3 years and there will be concrete proof one way or another. I mean it's not like liberals actually have a successful national candidate they can run. Maybe Hillary will go for the Mayor's job and try to roll that into another run at the White house. Though I imagine she's going to have more then a few sessions in front of congress/FBI to deal with in the mean time.
Whether it's Hillary, some other retread, or some far left governor the regressives are in huge trouble.
P.S. Oh, and Ed, before you make the charge: "No, more fake news from Nolan McCaskill," try googling "Trump enemy of the people," and see how many other news sources reported on it!
Trumps lies a lot and the Press should call him out for it.
But when some in the Press lie, they either ignore it or they usually get away with an obscure retraction that they just made a simple mistake.
I want to be clear here, are you claiming that intentionally false reporting does not exist?
Or are you saying that intentionally false reporting is good for the American people?
Or do you believe something else about intentionally false reporting?
How is this fake news?>>>>>
HEADLINE: Trump tweets: Press ‘is the enemy of the American people’
TRUMP'S TWEET: “The FAKE NEWS media (failing @nytimes, @NBCNews, @ABC, @CBS, @CNN) is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!”
(T actually did tweet this, BTW, in case anyone else is under the mistaken illusion that this is another attempt of the very, very dishonest media conspiracy to undermine him)
Many of the media reports on this tweet are giving the impression that Trump thinks or has said that ALL of the Press is the enemy of the American people. The qualifying prefix "FAKE" Press is being ignored by many.
Just this week, in his press conference, Trump very clearly made the distinction between fake Press and honest Press. He actually gave praises to honest reporting, whether it was critical of himself or not.
-- Modified on 2/18/2017 8:25:01 PM
Which would be pretty much EVERY SINGLE source of media that dares to report exactly what he says and does. ABC, NBC, MSNBC, Reuters, NYT, WaPo, WSJ, the Hill, the nation, PBS, the Guardian, The BBC.....et al
But, whew, Fox is still good---well...sorta. Now that a Fox news commentator dared to comment negatively on T's rambling, disjointed Presser on Thurs T supporters are calling for a boycott of Fox. (you can't make this shit up).
At least we still have Breitbart. Oops. No, Bannon is not happy with BB. Seems the alt right is getting cranky about not seeing enough destruction of the establishment.
Should we all start relying InfoWars (T LOVES that guy). The Gateway Pundit?
This discussion about the Free Press and the First Amendment is far bigger and more important than just Trump but his campaign and election have simply accelerated the issue.
Long before Trump came along, I have been repeatedly claiming the Press has been failing us. The Press is the ONLY enterprise that is specifically called out in the Constitution to give them immunity from Congressional action. On a side note, one could argue that today some religions are enterprises as well, e.g. mega churches or even the Catholic church etc. but in the 18th century they weren't thought of that way, but I digress. With that 1st Amendment immunity comes great responsibility. The shirking of that responsibility has always existed but its magnitude and direction (i.e. sometimes for, sometimes against those in power) varies. My contention is that things have been getting progressively worse over the past couple of decades and the degradation has accelerated in this Trump era. Indeed Trump lies and exaggerates more as well. I'm sure this is the cause for much of what is obviously the press picking sides and committing violations of their trust due probably to thinking that the end justifies the means. Certain "respected" people and institutions that criticize Trump (and rightfully so for the most part) for his problems with the truth seem to remain silent regarding the honesty issues of the Fourth Estate.
Trump may very well (or most likely) do some additional things that create short term and maybe long term havoc but lacking a Press that has at least some minimum amount of trust will most certainly be our long term undoing. And Trump stating as much won't be the cause but hopefully part of the solution.
-- Modified on 2/18/2017 10:57:14 PM
On that we can agree. And, in the same vein, lacking a President that has at least some minimum amount of trust will most certainly be our undoing, as well.
Who is more responsible for being an unquestionable pillar of truth and ethical behavior---the president, or the press? Obviously, both pillars should adhere to generally understood, and acceptable standards.
But, we can’t keep having this chicken and egg debate. If President T was behaving appropriately---meaning, specifically, if he was NOT standing up in front of the American people and repeatedly lying and making shit up to fit his own narrative---saying things that are demonstrably and empirically and quite obviously NOT true----and if he would stop accusing the press, regardless of what they report, even if what is reported is ABSOLULTLEY TRUE---of being THE most dishonest people ever, I have no doubt that the level of vitriol would begin to subside.
But T is not that guy. He is obviously unable to take criticism in the same way he is able to give it---and he so loves to give it. He’s also unable to admit when he’s made a mistake. No matter how badly he fucks something up it’s always somebody else’s fault. And, his excuses are laughable. (The disorganization in airports after the clumsy rollout of the travel ban was because of a delta airline computer glitch?) Even a small amount of humility on T’s part would go a long way towards easing the increasing ill will towards him.
The US POTUS is not only the leader of this country; the POTUS is a role model across the world. Not only individuals, but also entire countries look to the US POTUS for signals of world stability. So far T and his administration have been a fucking train wreck.
If T has a valid criticism of US the press, he has every right to express that. But for him to continue calling any and every press outlet FAKE news---regardless of what is said, especially when what is being reported by a particular news source is a completely fair and accurate reflection of something that he has actually said or done?---this does nothing but create distrust, and confusion, and chaos---and more ill will.
T wanted this job, and he got it. So, he needs to start acting like a grownup, and stop wailing about how unfair the press is being to him when he gets called out on his lies. Don’t want to have the press calling you out on lies? Stop lying.
Long before Trump came along, I have been repeatedly claiming the Press has been failing us. The Press is the ONLY enterprise that is specifically called out in the Constitution to give them immunity from Congressional action. On a side note, one could argue that today some religions are enterprises as well, e.g. mega churches or even the Catholic church etc. but in the 18th century they weren't thought of that way, but I digress. With that 1st Amendment immunity comes great responsibility. The shirking of that responsibility has always existed but its magnitude and direction (i.e. sometimes for, sometimes against those in power) varies. My contention is that things have been getting progressively worse over the past couple of decades and the degradation has accelerated in this Trump era. Indeed Trump lies and exaggerates more as well. I'm sure this is the cause for much of what is obviously the press picking sides and committing violations of their trust due probably to thinking that the end justifies the means. Certain "respected" people and institutions that criticize Trump (and rightfully so for the most part) for his problems with the truth seem to remain silent regarding the honesty issues of the Fourth Estate.
Trump may very well (or most likely) do some additional things that create short term and maybe long term havoc but lacking a Press that has at least some minimum amount of trust will most certainly be our long term undoing. And Trump stating as much won't be the cause but hopefully part of the solution.
-- Modified on 2/18/2017 10:57:14 PM
Yes, you said that, after you said: "No, more fake news from Nolan McCaskill" You can contest the headline, but the news was not fake news. As I have pointed out to you. Hell, even Priebus is telling you to take Trump seriously!
But, now you want to defend yourself my ignoring ALL of what you said? And, now you want to insinuate that I somehow claim "that intentionally false reporting does not exist?
Or are you saying that intentionally false reporting is good for the American people?
Or do you believe something else about intentionally false reporting?"
OK! I know, I know; you're going to try to weasel out of it by claiming you are only asking a question, right?
Bottom line Ed, I've giving you plenty of evidence that it is not a fake news story. If you want to go on straining at gnats, regarding one article on the issue, go right ahead!
I've never claimed the tweet never happened, only that the fake prefix gets dropped when excoriating Trump.
Oh and BTW, you never answered even one of my questions. I gave 3 choices. Surely one of them was answerable.
...in 1917!!!
And Putin started attacking the press (literally) in his first year in office.
If i was advising him i would have told him to not go there.
That being said, the media, on many occasions, has acted like the "enemy of the people."
Dan Rather and the fake document story on Bush the younger, the bogus front page above the fold story in the NY Slimes re: John McCain cheating on his wife, the Trayvon Martin fiasco, the Duke lacrosse rape story, the fictitious account of Trump removing the MLK bust from is the oval office, etc etc etc
Now that doesn't justify what Trump said but lets be honest here. The media is out to get him. They have gone way past just fact checking him. They are now heavily involved in advocacy journalism.
The old mantra of "just reporting the facts" is a dead concept in todays leftist media.
The media's approval rating is lower than Trumps and it is well deserved.
Just a small note, the Duke lacrosse story was more a function of an overzealous official prosecuting the case than a story fabricated by the media. Highly recommend the ESPN 30 for 30 on this, the title of which escapes me right now. Now returning to your regularly scheduled political programming...
They had those kids found guilty WAY before the facts were in.
That case, along with the Trayvon Martin case, is advocacy journalism at its worst.
The media just couldnt imagine women would make that up so the facts were irrelevant.
While the 30/30 report was excellent, it was broadcast well in arrears. The NYT, ESPN, Duke student paper, faculty (how about their letter damning those kids?) and especially all the local papers and tv jumped on the "boys must of done it" train. While the media didn't fabricate "Duke Lacrosse," NONE of them stood up and said "wait a minute let's dig into this a bit" until far too late. And while Nifong paid a price, the Duke AD is now at LSU, the Duke president, despite the university settling out of court for millions skated (btw anyone recall his statements prior to trial?) and of course the kids can never get their lives back and the coach had his career ruined as well. Yes, Nifong was to blame. But the media at best watched and did nothing while many cheered him on. The ESPN piece was basically their trying to reclaim their rep years after the lawyers busted the case wide open. While the media didn't fabricate this story they aided and allowed it by being unwilling to discover the truth instead of jumping on Nifongs train of lies.
-- Modified on 2/18/2017 11:05:14 PM
-- Modified on 2/18/2017 11:08:07 PM
-- Modified on 2/18/2017 11:14:53 PM
The press makes mistakes. They get called on it. They're forced to retract and apologize. This happens. I seriously can't believe you're still bringing up Dan Rather's reporting from that many years ago. (Dan retracted and he has apologized, repeatedly. GTFOI)
But any discussion of the imperfections, or failures of the free press need to be put on the back burner the very second that we have a President of the United States announcing, PUBLICLY, that the press is the enemy of the American people.
Show me any president that loved the press. Every president is out and in front of the American people, and will inevitably be the subject of harsh reporting, and hard questions---day after day after day...after day. Nobody gives a shit about how unfair T thinks the press is being to him. Absorbing public criticism is part of his job. He's the fucking President. He needs to sack-up.
There is ABSOLUTELY_NO_DEFENSE for what T said. None.
You are indeed correct and right on point. The press, by in large, particularly the MSM news agencies Trump mentioned, and Dan Rather did and do both. Guess what Trump never does? You're right! He never does either. Something the Trump supporters conveniently ignore.
Rathers expert and research team was telling him NOT to run the story and he did so anyway. That is NOT a mistake. That is a deliberate attack to bring down a candidacy.
If Rather apologized it must have been recently as for years after he was saying the story was true even though the docs were fraudulent.
And why dont these things happen to Dem candidates/presidents? You think the NY Slimes would have printed a story on Barry fucking some broad with a single unnamed source with zero proof? And then placed it on the front page? Get real.
In fact when the liberal media knew fact certain about Clinton getting blown and sexually harrassing his porky intern, they sat on that story! It took a right wing media website, the Drudgereport, to expose that media hypocrisy.
True, every president must endure harsh questioning but dont hide behind that Plants. You damn well know there is a massive liberal bias in the press and my above examples plus many others listed before proove that.
What they should never face is fake news, as was the case with the Rather, Slimes and MLK stories.
-- Modified on 2/19/2017 11:19:00 AM
There is also a conservative slant to other media. So what? That is how a free press works. As I said, the press gets it wrong sometimes. Sometimes there may even be malevolent intent. But the problem here is not that there are stories or ongoing narratives in the news media that were unfair to republican/conservative presidents. There have also been stories or ongoing narratives that have been unfair to democratic/Liberal presidents.
The whole birther thing was pretty ridiculous, don’t you think? Damn, how many YEARS did we have to listen to that poppycock from T?
The problem, today, is that we have a president that is not just taking exception to a particular story, or any particular new outlet. He’s coming right and declaring that ALL of the news media, ALL OF IT, is dishonest. He is actively promoting the narrative that everything printed, by anyone/everyone-----*that has a negative slant towards him* is FAKE news.
OTOH, he likes the positive stuff, and misses no opportunity to utilize THESE stories (also published by the very, very, dishonest media). Everything is a lie unless it reflects his desired narrative. If a poll is negative---it’s FAKE news. If a poll is positive he trots it out as proof of his glory. T’s delusional message is that the only way to get the REAL TRUTH is from him, directly. The press is the enemy of the American people!!
This BS from a guy who can’t manage to get through a single day without saying, or tweeting something that is demonstrably and empirically untrue; stuff that is laughably easy to fact-check.
Sweden? Are you OK? Call me……
And as far as all of this FAKE news being peddled by every major news outlet---there ARE questions surrounding his connections to Russia, and the press should be asking questions, Mike Flynn did get caught lying about inappropriate communication with the R ambassador, and he did get fired. There was considerable confusion and chaos after the cluster of a roll-out of his travel Ban. Trump actually DID promise to ban all Muslims from entering the US. He DID ask Juliani to help him figure out how to ban Muslims, legally. His administration HAS been in disarray. The amount of leakage from the WH IS unprecedented. His most recent new conference WAS littered with some rather incomprehensible head-scratching rambling. He DOES say things that are completely untrue---all the time. And when he gets called one, he doesn’t correct himself---he doubles down on the lie.
The press reports on these issues are unflattering because…well….the stories themselves are unflattering. But, it’s not FAKE news. It’s just the news.
If Rather apologized it must have been recently as for years after he was saying the story was true even though the docs were fraudulent.
And why dont these things happen to Dem candidates/presidents? You think the NY Slimes would have printed a story on Barry fucking some broad with a single unnamed source with zero proof? And then placed it on the front page? Get real.
In fact when the liberal media knew fact certain about Clinton getting blown and sexually harrassing his porky intern, they sat on that story! It took a right wing media website, the Drudgereport, to expose that media hypocrisy.
True, every president must endure harsh questioning but dont hide behind that Plants. You damn well know there is a massive liberal bias in the press and my above examples plus many others listed before proove that.
What they should never face is fake news, as was the case with the Rather, Slimes and MLK stories.
-- Modified on 2/19/2017 11:19:00 AM
The press reports on these issues are unflattering because…well….the stories themselves are unflattering. But, it’s not FAKE news. It’s just the news.
If news is intentionally not correct it is not just the news. It's propaganda.
-- Modified on 2/19/2017 2:31:46 PM
they have found no evidence of criminal wrongdoing. Whether Flynn's behavior was inappropriate is different a question. Flynn was acting as civilian at the time---and, whether or not he crossed a legal line, he was certainly walking a fine line.
"The White House is confident Flynn didn't say anything that could have violated the law. Of course, that could be open to interpretation. It would be up to the Jeff Sessions Justice Department to review the transcript and bring a case, if it saw fit. That is seen as unlikely."
The news has been full of harsher definitions of "inappropriate" that all seem to be wrong.
So, you determine what is inappropriate, what is political, when they are separate issues, and when they overlap? Tell that to the majority, in the linked poll, who want Flynn investigated. Sounds to me like they suspect he may have done something inappropriate; perhaps even illegal!
1. No investigation has “cleared” Flynn, except the investigation conducted by Larry, More, and Curly Joe aka Donald Trump and [pick any two flunkies]. The Congressional investigation has not even begun beyond staffer review as far as I can tell.
2. We don’t know precisely what private citizen Flynn discussed about “sanctions” with the Russian ambassador in phone conversations that dated back to the summer, or what Flynn knew about Russian hacking of the DNC, but the conversations on their face may very well violate the Logan Act; if he dared to advise that Trump would drop/reduce sanctions in return for dumping some Podesta emails, he clearly has violated the Act. There is your illegality.
3. We don’t know if he lied to the FBI which is against the law. The FBI investigation is continuing.
4. If you don’t think lying to the vice president is “inappropriate” for a NSA, you are a forgiving person indeed
5. And the biggest thing you have missed is this –AG Yates advised Trump that the Russians could blackmail Flynn based on whatever he said. If there is nothing “illegal” there, why would she say that?
6. Finally, Flynn clearly violated the brain death statutes. How can a NSA talk to the Russian ambassador w/o thinking he might be wiretapped? The guy is too dumb to live.
Wait, you are drifting almost out of radio contact. Reverse course, reverse course.
On second thought….just go.
Please go back to Start and do not collect $200, read the entire conversation and then get back to us. "Inappropriate" context had nothing to do with the VP.
The rest of your gibberish is based on things you've seen in a dream somewhere.
I lol'd on that one. One thing one finds with Ed, any discussion with him is like the old shell game where you have to pick which shell the pea is under. He's always going the change the pea to make certain he wins and you lose. And, just like in the old shell game, he's very dishonest; in this case intellectually, in his endeavor.
to avoid engaging in activities that while, perhaps, are not technically against any rules or laws, could present an appearance of impropriety. I see no reason why someone in Flynn’s position should not be held to a similar standard.
In Flynn’s situation, there is every appearance of impropriety. On the same day Obama imposes sanctions on Russia, Flynn calls the R ambassador (multiple times?). When he’s asked whether sanctions were discussed, he says absolutely not—and both Pence and Priebus get on TV and say: absolutely not.
Then we find that the convos were recorded, and Trump had been informed, by Sally Yates, that there are concerns about Flynns statement and that he might be vulnerable to blackmail by the Russians. When Flynn is asked again about discussing sanctions he changes his story to: I don’t recall.
T has this info for 2 weeks, Flynn continues to stays in his job, nobody updates Pence and nothing happens to Flynn until the pressure from WaPo…..The FBI states they find no evidence of criminal wrongdoing, BUT, that is open to interpretation and would need to be investigated by Jeff Sessions/DOJ. We all know that will never happen.
But, an appearance of impropriety? Absolutely
Keep back peddling. Pretty soon you'll be back at the top of the hill.
Regardless the inferences mari has made and his reliance on a disgraced and partisan acting AG, to believe a man of Flynn's experience did not know his conversations were being recorded borders on ridiculous.
As you soundly state, DOING something inappropriate and "giving the appearance of acting inappropriately" are two vastly different things.
But remember the media's fake news account here to begin with? Many in the MSM were stating that Flynn just speaking with the Russians was not ONLY inappropriate but ILLEGAL as well.
Well guess what? The media shit the bed again with Trump so I cant kill plants over her back peddling as the lib media has swiftly and sneakily done the same.
Not only did Flynn do something that clearly appears to be inappropriate, his behavior WAS inappropriate. If he had not created the appearance of impropriety, by actually behaving inappropriately, he would still have a job---would he not?
But remember the media's fake news account here to begin with? Many in the MSM were stating that Flynn just speaking with the Russians was not ONLY inappropriate but ILLEGAL as well.
Well guess what? The media shit the bed again with Trump so I cant kill plants over her back peddling as the lib media has swiftly and sneakily done the same.
His inappropriate action was not telling the truth to Pence about his earlier appropriate actions with the Russian Ambassador.
You (and many others) earlier characterized his actions regarding the Ambassador as inappropriate (and according to many others as illegal). We now know that was not true, at least according to President Trump and others that say they have reviewed transcripts of the conversations. Then there was some controversy whether Flynn had lied to the FBI during the subsequent investigation. It appears that is not the case either.
If you still think his discussions with Russians were inappropriate or gave the appearance of same then we really have nothing more to discuss. He was simply doing his job. Those opposed to Trump were going to use this event and anything else to muddy the waters to create "inappropriate appearances." If you are still in that camp we might as well say, had Flynn never joined ROTC in college then this never would have happened.
Yeah…Flynn, the NSA, lied to the Vice pres, Chief of staff, and then the Pres. To say that is inappropriate is being very generous.
Secondly, Flynn has not really been cleared of crossing a legal line in talking to the Russian Ambassador about sanctions---or, if we’re splitting hairs---talking around sanctions with the Russian Ambassador. Trump (and other’s) looked at the transcripts and said: nothing to see here? Pardon me if I think that looks like a parent asking a child to decide whether he has done anything wrong and, if he thinks he has, to punish himself accordingly.
What the FBI said was that whether Flynn broke the law would need to be investigated by Sessions/DOJ---which is unlikely. So, that’s that. And another hair---The FBI didn’t say that Flynn didn’t lie to them. The FBI said they believed Flynn didn’t know he was doing anything wrong. This is quite similar to the position the FBI took on Hillary’s email’s. The FBI determined there was no intent, on Hillary’s part, to break the law; an answer that was received by her detractors with let’s say,….some skepticism.
And, finally, Flynn was not actually the NSA, yet, when he had these discussions. So, no, he was not just doing his job.
His job was NSA nominee. His job was to get prepared to takeover on day one. He talked to security officials from dozens of countries, just like all of his preceding NSA NOMINEES. The only reason this incident is even on the radar is due to fake reports (ZERO EVIDENCE) that Trump had something to do with Russians attempts at hacking DNC email and the unproven (ZERO EVIDENCE) that Trump made promises to the Russians regarding sanctions as some sort of quid pro quo. Let's visit once again after Flynn is indicted.