There seems to be so much discussion/worry about this - my friend (JFGroup username) asked me to share my experiences here - to perhaps help clarify or lay calm over the issue.
I used to work primarily in LA, and traveled often around the country. I've had 3 different experiences in 3 different cities (all between 2000 and 2002) that made it clear to me what I/we needed to do in order to be legal. Perhaps things have changed - I've been out of the business for over a year - but this is exactly what happened to me.
First, around the year 2001, I was called and offered any amount of money to come down from LA to Orange county. I finally agreed, and when I arrived at the address I was given, I saw that it was a crappy little hotel. After meeting the guy and walking in, I just laid on the bed and talked and looked at the guy, who remained seated on a chair by the bed and made no move towards me. I saw that there was cash laid out on the nightstand, but even if there hadn't been, I wouldn't have asked for it. After 10 minutes talking, at which time money or what we would do was never mentioned, I motioned to the guy to come over to me and I started to undo his belt. At that time he said he needed to use the bathroom - and that must have been the signal, as two other guys came in, snapped a poloroid camera picture of me, dumped my purse, and started giving me the 3rd degree.
HOWEVER - on the way to the OC jail - the cop who'd been in the room with me first told me that nothing was going to happen to me - because I hadn't asked for or touched the money. He said very clearly - in order for the judge to convict - I have to get you to say / ask for / take a specific amount of money in exchange for a sexual service. Because you didn't ask for or count the money - we have no case.
And, as he said, nothing was ever filed against me.
One year later - the exact same thing happened to a girlfriend of mine - but happened in fake apartment set up - but she touched/talked about the money - so she got charged.
The second time was in Las Vegas. Again, I was called and asked to travel from LA to Vegas - and asked to bring another girl with me. This time, one of the 3 guys in the room asked us point blank in the first 5 minutes if each would be willing to have sex with all of them. It was an awkward question - asked as if we girls thought they were attractive enough to sleep with - so of course we said yes. But that's all they needed. They needed an explicit agreement to exchange sex acts for money - and they got it. Busted. Major hassel - but I sure learned.
Third time confirmed it again. In Chicago - had an appt to see 2 guys. Clue - they didn't want an alcholic beverage - and after 3 minutes asked - So, this will cost us $600? I said, Oh no - that was just to screen people! You guys are adorable, you don't have to pay anything! They were SOOO annoyed - and actually left 3 minutes later - and were struggling to come up with an excuse like - if they couldn't pay then they didn't want it.
SO - it seemed like the standard just about everywhere was - if you don't talk about money and service, nor touch/acknowlege clients money - the situation is perfectly LEGAL. In fact, I thereafter went so far as, if a client offered or tried to hand me money prior to the session beginning, I would say very clearly "No thank you - you keep that." And the begin the session. BINGO. Myself, my client, in that instant, become legal.
However, I can see how this would make some providers nervous about not getting paid. So I suggest to fellas that correct/standard protocol for this industry should be - when guys come in, they spread the donation out somewhere clearly visible where the girl can even practically gauge that it's the right amount from a glance, but the guys say absolutely nothing in the process of doing that, and then the girl must not touch it or discuss it either.
After the session is over, in which both parties have fully participated so their true intentions are revealed, and client has walked out the door - only then do I touch money.
How often was I ripped off this way - NEVER, not once!
I've heard and read those stories about LE taking sexual services and THEN busting the girl - but I can tell you folks - that's NOT happening to smart providers these days. THE one girl who told me THAT happened to her - also explained HOW she got that cop FIRED because she had the whole session with him video taped - as she routinely video-taped every session for her protection. Except regulars.
If LE knew how many girls now have audio and visual recording devices monitoring their new clients - they would give up and go home - and find a real way to contribute to society. See that teddy bear up on the dresser big fella? You're busted.
Moral is - GOD BLESS TER. And, only see girls that have at least one full page of good reviews. Only see girls who offer incall at their home - if you want outcall- find a girl that does incall at her home and outcall. Good girls will let you know where they live and have pictures of themselves about. Good girls will NOT have a driver. Good girls will NEVER ask for additional money or discuss it upon your arrival. And, San Fransisco and LA are safe because of their political environment. While Vegas, San Diego, and Orange County for example - are not.
Before writing this post - I saw a discussion board question that asked providers if they had ever fallen in love with a client. YES! Most all girls I knew in the biz - including myself - only dated guys they met as clients, and eventually found one they loved, married, and quit the biz to have kids with. I did. Escort clients have more respect and appreciation for women, than any other group of men in existence. (They are the ones willing to pay a women that much for her time and attention instead of trying to manipulate a girl in a bar to get it for free.)
Thanks for the information and advice.
I know this is going to sound stupid. But since I am in San Diego, I wish that you or someone would explain it to me.-You said that San Diego is not safe because of the political environment-what is that exactly? I thought things might cool down here now, since elections are overwith.?
And even though San Diego is not considered safe, by using your suggestion of not mentioning money for sex, I would be covered.
Also, I am curious about the nanny cams,-I would think that the cops would just confiscate the tape and destroy it. I love that idea, but don't they usually search the provider's home or hotel carefully?, looking for more evidence?
I think you need to really think twice about installing surveilence devices - especially those that record. If the cops get their hands on your stash of tapes what do you think they are going to do with it? Do you think your customers want their pictures on the 6pm news? Even worse for you is if a customer finds out you've been secretly recording him. Some won't care too much but there are others who could easily become violent at the thought of potentially being blackmailed - even if you insist that that wasn't what you were doing.
A socially conservative political climate usually means - Republican - tight ass - so their LE considers this biz a higher priority than socially liberal political districts. San Diego has elected very sociall conservative/Republican policial officials - so the actions/priorities of LE reflect that.
San Diego and Orange county generally vote Republican = this biz gets more heat in those political districts.
This is JFGroup, not former escort who wrote note about how to stay legal - so I've obviously never worked in San Deigo - so I wouldn't really know.
Are you an escort working in san diego? Have you had trouble with LE there? Know of other girls there and their experience with LE? If you've all had no trouble I"ll be sure to pass on that info to my escort friend and tell her she's misinformed about that area.
On the flip side, an example of the most tolerant political district, San Fransisco has long been one of the safest places for this biz because Willie Brown said outright when he was mayor - that he was not going to use city resources to pursue prostitution that was 'off the street'. Conservative politicians run on 'moral highground/hypocracy platforms of 'cleaning up crime and prostitution. I.e. - in towns where those folks are in office - this biz is likely to catch more heat.
JFGroup, while these are interesting stories, the providers who read them shouldn't take them to be gospel and follow your example. Those of us who have participated in this hobby for years can tell you that if the cops want to bust you for solicitation then they will. If the DA wants to press charges then they will. Cops lie. Always have and always will. There are plenty of providers on TER who will agree.
I don't know what the answer is - in fact I don't think that there is an answer. What you and we do IS illegal so it's always going to be a game of cat and mouse. If the cops and the DA really want you then they will back up their case with other evidence such as websites, etc. You don't want to go in front of a jury and try to explain your website and all the euphemism's on there. Or that you came to a stangers hotel room after he called you, and had sex while a bunch of cash was laying out on the table. That's pretty much a guarantee of a free trip to the State's bed and breakfast.
first there was no ambiguous text in my site "non smoker, intelligent, great sence of humor,compatibilty.love to enjoy museums ,theatre, art, movies,sight seeing,,,then the photos i used were only fully dressed "face shots and a buisness suit..looking for possible long term relationship the OC vice cop searched hundreds of escorts and models and chose the one lady who appeared to look like a librarian and pursued me until i agreed to met at a resteraunt wrote in police report that looked like a hooker offerering prostetution services
only a true pervert would look at my web site and ad and think that.i also had beautiful musical free e cards that could be sent with pretty photos and happy bday merry christmas etc..
It's the perception of why you had a website coupled with the fact that you had sex with a strange man with cash laid out on the table that will give the jury the reasons they need to convict you. BTW, I am not speaking of you, I am speaking generally here. What I wrote in my previous posts still stands - if the cops and DA want to arrest and charge you then they will.
Number one - most providers I've seen say they wont date clients becuase they see escorts... interesting.
Number two - the secret video taping of the session is not something I care to hear. I've heard clients talk abotut setting up a hidden camera and providers have gone ballistic over it... interesting to hear a provider admit she knows that providers do it.
Both points seem to have a double standard... guess guys and gals aren't so much different after all.
I find the information interesting and helpful about touching the money, talking about sex and money and having a recording devise. Good Ideas. However I am a "good girl" and nobody knows where I live and I like it that way. I don't do incall out of my own home and I do mostly outcall. I have never ripped anyone off and have two full pages of good reviews. I had a driver for a short time when I didn't have a car. Yes it was inconvenient , but it didnt make me less of a provider or a bad person.
Also you failed to mention the importance of screening for both parties. Just remember guys. LE doesn't screne.
Just my two cents
Megan Riley
So, Megan, are you saying that you would install a recording device or that you just think it's a good idea?
Out of what I posted that is the only information you cared to comment on? Interesting. I'm not saying its a good idea or bad, only interesting. And installing a recording devise? Because I only do outcall, where would I install a recording device? In my pussy? Oh excuse me sir could you please look here and smile for the camera. Oh and never mind the flashing light.
You seemed to think the idea of a recording devce was a good one so I asked you a straight up question. You think it's an interesting idea? Wow.
Thanks for sharing your experience with us. There is alot of good ninformation. Most of it except this:
"Only see girls who offer incall at their home - if you want outcall- find a girl that does incall at her home and outcall. Good girls will let you know where they live"
Yeah, right. STUPID girls will let you know where they live.
Dumb broads do in call in thier home. I don't know how a lady could stand to have johns in her 'home' and still live there.
Gross me out. I believe it would be called a 'bordello' - not a 'home'.
I do agree that it is a bad idea to hold incall in your home for safety reasons. The way you make it sound is that you think the "johns" are gross.
I may be wrong, but that's the way I understood your post.
I enjoy having people at my place. I don't care about what my neighbors think, as I have a real profession outside of my extracurricular day or nocturnal carnations, so when people are buzzed in, it is normal. I say people, because I am bi-sexual. I am still saving for my PSE with Belladonna. (Hint- what I really want for Christmas!)
I live off the beach, it is a relaxing place, I like to provide refreshments, and have the comforts of my home available. My regulars have become good friends, and they enjoy getting to know other things about my life. If I am sharing my body with someone, I am sharing my mind, my soul, my very unique essense that makes me special. I want that other person to feel special too.
I do outcall as well. I don't enjoy driving far, but I like to travel. I like to fly, but the train is even better. The thought videotaping hasn't occured to me before. I think it might cause problems, especially if that information comes into the wrong hands. Perhaps that is why I don't take on many new clients. I never discuss money. I ask that it is provided in an envelope at the END of our time together. Perhaps this is imprudent as I don't watch the clock, however I think it is tacky to discuss money. Besides, tips are not expected, but when they happen, it is nice.
That is my .02
I did not mean Johns are gross, by any means. It makes me ill, personally, at the thought of carrying on biz in ones home. It seems gross to me, that's all.
yes i agree, doind incalls is dangerous to the girls, and if she gets busted the cops will go over everything in her house, and all her personal stuffs !!!!!!!!!!!
As a provider i never do incalls.
-- Modified on 3/4/2004 3:26:54 PM
You are so right about everything you have said here!!!!!Believe it ladies this girl knows her bussiness...