A question for Lawdoc: Are you saying a female LE would work as an escort in a massage palor, having sex with clients for a couple of weeks in order to close the place down? Are you saying that either a female or male LE would have sex with an escort or client, then after the act was consumated, arrest them?
I frequent AMPs. I usually go in pay the mama-san and then go into the room. Girl comes in starts massage and we end up having sex. No mention of money or questions about what I want, etc., before, during or even after the fact. Out of gratitude for an unexpected pleasure and to assist in her college fund I give her a monetary gift after the fact.
What's the verdict?
Guilty and not too bright either.
I apologize for being so dim. Thank you for my enlightenment on this topic...which is, of course, the reason for the question.
Not too smart..College Fund..Charity..whatever..means nothing..and you are at risk..when you do this..and are subject to arrest and prosecution.
Ok, so, I guess I have been branded as not too smart. It was my impression that this might be safer than the usual massage parlor procedure, the massage, girl asks “what you want?” “everything,” “how much?” etc. After all, we never contracted for sex or any form of sexual activity. On the other hand, I guess if I didn’t tip her after someone would kick my butt. I just figured that LE wouldn’t have a female officer have sex with me – wouldn’t LE prefer offer and acceptance? Now, I would fully expect that I would have a problem if they were busting the place and I was in there getting my rocks off.
Paying the mama..is the start of the problem..If you walked in..no conversatio about $..had sex..finished..you would at some time..commit something that could come back to haunt you.
Bottom line..know the place..know the girl..use your gut instincts..and if something gives you a bad vibe..you would mostly likely be right.
LE can lie..have sex..and do whatever..and considers this in the line of duty.
MOst likely your LE female will not be at a place longer than a week or two..before you read about it.
am I less likely to get busted by seeing a well reviewed incall escort - instead of going to the massage parlors? Hey, I just want a little nookie without getting busted! Thanks.
Even well reviewed escorts could be a problem..especially is LE works a deal..Again..anytime we go after something..in this hobby of ours..we are at risk.
Bottom line: look before you leap. If anything..look over reviews by fellow TER's and see a long time history.
A question for Lawdoc: Are you saying a female LE would work as an escort in a massage palor, having sex with clients for a couple of weeks in order to close the place down? Are you saying that either a female or male LE would have sex with an escort or client, then after the act was consumated, arrest them?
I'm saying that normally a LE sting can be set up for several weeks..busting people in a discreet way..and normally a LE female would not do this/ sex..then bust..it would be the other way around.as men are men..and depending on the LE methods..this can happen..not 100 percent of the time..but maybe 1 out of 40 times..for actual sex..Most likely is is the TER member or someone who gets in trouble..because they solicit..
I have seen this actually..while on the other end..of the legal side.
That's as opposed to you, who would never get arrested because you frequent "high priced" girls, right? Maybe you ought to look in the mirror before you start insulting others' intelligence.
We can all get busted for this exciting but risky hobby. We all know it, but it is a calculated risk. Everyone knows that paying someone for "favors" is illegal. If you are arrested and the charges do not stick, that is a bitter sweet victory. You will still be arrested, have to hire counsel, go to court and have a trial, and face your wife and family (if applicable).
I beleive it is a numbers game. Over time, there is a chance that you will get busted. That chance may be 1 in 20 or 1 in 100. The fact still remains, there is a chance and the longer one continues in this hobby, the higher the probability that one will be busted.
We all know the risk is there and yet we continue to participate in the hobby. To address the origianl question, think about it: You are paying to have some sort of sex with someone. No matter how you spin it (ie. I paid the lady up front), it is still sex for money.
If a hobbiest can't handle the risk associated with this hobby, stay home and masterbate.
Seeing your 1:100 estimate above I was curious to see what reality looked like. Based on the estimated number of providers and number of engagements per provider compared with the number and different types of arrests here are some semi accurate stats on chances of being busted. These stats are based on numbers from Atlanta, Mpls/St Paul, and San Francisco.
Massage Parlour 1:198
Streetwalker 1:448
Indy/Agency 1:151,887
I was surprised that the likelyhood of being busted in a massage place was higher than on the street and was also surprised at the extreme unlikelyness of being busted with an indy or agency gal.
JTH
Where did you get your data to get these stats? I have a hard time believing they could be accurate.
The ratio's were arrived at by comparing the number of arrests in each city to the number of engagements of each industry segment.
Arrest info is readily available from state BCA's but some work is required to determine which are for street, indy/agency, or massage. Since it varies dramatically from year to year I used a 5 year trendline 97, 98, 99, 00, 01. The trendline for all 3 cities is surprisingly flat with Atlanta's actually a slight downtrend.
Number of engagements is calculated by determining the number of each type of provider in the city and surveying some of them to arrive at the average number of engagements per week. FWIW, while I believe the numbers are fairly accurate, they have not been gathered in a way that any form of statistical significance can be assigned to them. I believe the numbers are all fairly conservative with adjustments made for such things as agency overlap (girls listed w/ more than one agency), etc. All provider data is approx 14 months old.
For example; Atlanta has 940 street providers ea doing 97 engagements/mo, 4322 Indy/Agency providers averaging 31 engagements/mo (26 for Indy's, 44 for Agency), and 122 Massage providers doing 92 engagements/mo. Atlanta had 1780 arrests for street, 21 indy/agency, and 45 massage.
Note: Assuming all providers are between 18 and 30 approx 1.4% of the women in Atlanta work as a provider. This compares to 9.2% for the 25 largest metro areas in the US, Canada, Mexico, Germany, Italy, France, Austria, UK, and Australia. Mexico City is highest with an estimated 24% of women between 16 and 30 working as providers.
Are these statistics the number of girls arrested or the number of men?
How would I go about finding out the arrest statistics for Miami?
Total regardless of gender. FWIW in MN & GA the numbers were nearly equal, CA was about 2/3 female, 1/3 male.
http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/Crime_Statistics/
"For example; Atlanta has 940 street providers ea doing 97 engagements/mo, 4322 Indy/Agency providers averaging 31 engagements/mo (26 for Indy's, 44 for Agency), and 122 Massage providers doing 92 engagements/mo. Atlanta had 1780 arrests for street, 21 indy/agency, and 45 massage.
Note: Assuming all providers are between 18 and 30 approx 1.4% of the women in Atlanta work as a provider. This compares to 9.2% for the 25 largest metro areas in the US, Canada, Mexico, Germany, Italy, France, Austria, UK, and Australia. Mexico City is highest with an estimated 24% of women between 16 and 30 working as providers."
Where are you getting your provider numbers from? I just do not believe that 9.2% of women age 18 - 30 work as providers. That number would be in the high hundreds of thousands, or even the low millions.
Also, where do you get your engagments per month numbers from? I doubt that massage parlour girls only have 92 clients per month. Here in LA most AMP girls work 6 days a week. That would average out to between 3 - 4 clients per day. I know that is way less than average.
Sorry for the late response.
Numbers for most industrialized nations are not too difficult to find since prostitution is legal everywhere except the US and most nations stats ministry publishes industry information. Here are a couple of examples:
In 2001 Germany had 387,000 women working as service providers according to their information ministry. The report itself is E600, but here's something online if you're struggling with believing the numbers.
http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/05/11/germany.prostitutes/index.html?related
Germany's total population is 81,000,000 of which 3,434,400 are females between 18 and 30. Approximately 85% of the providers are females within this age group giving us an estimate of 9.9% of these females working as providers at some point in 2001. This number can be adjusted up to account for the number of women within the age group who have left the industry and can perhaps be adjusted further to account for women in the age group who will enter the industry in the future. Also, if you look at the stats for specific cities you will find that a much higher percent of the 18-30 population works in the industry with the highest being Frankfurt metro with an estimated 22%.
Mexico City has an estimated 90,000 women working as providers out of a total population of 8,590,000 equating to a staggering 24% of the 18-30 population.
Austria has the lowest official % with an estimated 1.8% of 18-30 year old women working. It s/b noted though that the industry in Austria is far more private than other EU countries so the actual number is likely higher.
Across all industrialized nations an estimated 24% of women will at some point in their lives work as a provider. It should also be noted that in many countries it does not carry the stigma that it does in the US and is accepted as a simple fact that a number of women will 'ply the trade' for a time.
The engagements/mo numbers come from informal interviews of providers. I actually found the numbers higher than I would have expected, but continued research supports these numbers.
As I stated earlier, the way the information for the US has been gathered leaves alot of room for error. I welcome any additional information that anyone can provide to help with the accuracy.
JTH
Yes, I agree know that I can get busted. I was hoping that the scenarion described would indicate a lower rather than higher probability. I know that I could stop participating in the hobby, but prefer to take a calculated risk at this point.
In regard to my original question...If I go to a legitimate massage parlor and pay the receptionist upfront and get a legitimate non-sexual massage, then tip the masseuse after the massage, I don't think I have committed an offense.
So, I guess to clarify, then to me the ways I get busted in my original scenario is if the masseuse is LE, or if LE busts down the door during a sex act. Would this be correct?