"So for me, I will elect to spend time with hobby ladies who are beautiful, sexy, smart, and many other great qualities - but who are NOT the exact personality type that makes me think, "holy crap I REALLY like this girl, her personality, her humor, she really "gets" me, I'd love to get to know her better"
this is an interesting dynamic in the hobby world. That is, do you actively seek different personalites or one who you would -for lack of better comparison- have been in your circle of friends in high school/college or a close co-worker at your job. I tried seeing someone that was different than I would normally see and it was a disaster! Of course, with some ladies you don't find out what they are like until you meet them
Been hobbying for years with no issues, but lately I've been stuck on the same local gal. Its to the point where I would probably pay just to hang out with her minus the sex because I think she is that cool (stop laughing). If anyone out there has had this happen to them, how did you ween yourself off? I of course could keep paying to see her frequently, but I'm not sure if that's healthy.
Life is too short to not jut be in the moment and breathe in a true connection with any person on this at times, lonely planet. If you feel like you are too close, then you know what you have to do...but really I don't see any reason to do that.
Thank you for the advice. I of course would love to keep seeing her, but I don't want to become even more attached. I am contemplating just telling her that I do feel a connection with her just to see what she says.
My personal experience with this is that it will not end well. Even if you tell her that you feel a connection, and she agrees that she does too, it most likely will not last (or maybe not even be true). Proceed with extreme caution if you dare.
The big question is whether or not she shares any of your feelings. Does she keep your meetings strictly on the clock or do you engage in any OTC time? Do you converse outside of playtime? Do you ever drop hints about how you feel about her - how has she reacted?
If you've never received "extras" (OTC, freebies...) then shut the fuck up and enjoy it for what it is as long as it's not detrimental to any other areas of your life. If you have received positive signals, then go ahead and have a talk as long as you can handle the possibility of getting dropped for getting too close/attached. Just keep the L word out of it and proceed slowly and cautiously. Friendships and very loose P4P arrangements can evolve out of this if both parties are on the same page.
So all or nothing? Why do you say that? I wasn't thinking marriage. Maybe hanging out a bit more outside of a tiny room, because I think we'd have fun. I'm just going to tell her how I feel. If she doesn't view me the same way then at least I'll know. I don't think I would keep visiting if she doesn't though.
Nothing creepier than a client saying he "loves you" and has deeper feelings. I bet her feelings don't go deeper than the envelope. Here's the test: try to see her without an appointment and then bring no money... IF that gets you no where, then guess what? She doesn't feel the same! You are losing sight to what this really is, she is doing her job, and a damn good job at it. Enjoy it for what it is, be a great client, and leave the rest alone
what if dude is the ceo of a publicly traded company? all be it most people can't spot CEO's at all expected Tim Cook or the t-mobile ceo....it's still the envelope all be it indirect. but lack of paying doesn't mean much when a lady spots a payday...plenty of women are looking for a come-up, haha.
And we know many of yall would consider next steps with a celebrity client and probably hope they want more. so depending on dude's status he may automatically win
Been there done that, guys are guys who care what you do? My opinion though. LOL!
I see what you are saying, if she is on gold digger status. But why even consider being with the guy and trying to have a "relationship", easier way is to say fuck it, offer BBFS while ovulating and have a love child. LMAO!!! Happens every day, paternity test and child support court will secure 21 yrs payday in DC and 18 yrs payday in MD.
Well, I have been fortunate. I'd put myself in the one percent, albeit closer to the bottom of the one percent. I'd have no issues being very generous towards her, but I wouldn't want to do that if I was just an envelope. I'd need to know it was real.
Clarity is a good thing!
...good luck with that.
After a session, tell her that you're going to grab a bite and invite her. If she wants to be your friend, she will eventually ask to spend time with you.
-- Modified on 3/6/2015 11:46:17 AM
From personal experience. I went through hell of falling in love with an ATF and then trying to forget she ever existed. Still not 100% over her.
Do not tell her how you feel. Do not pay $200. Do not pass "Go." Make an appt with another provider and ask her to be a reference. Get over it as fast as you can and make sure she understands she is a provider to you and nothing else.
Trust me when I say I know what I'm talking about.
People you pay to be your friends are not your friends. You are a client, not a friend, and not a lover. It feels real because aspects of it are real but
It is not real. I wish I could tell you it was real. I know how you are feeling. I have been there and so have countless others and
It never works out. It never really does. It will hurt and twist you like nothing else.
It becomes real when money is off the table, darling. At least, for her.
And that is where it is gets complicated. I mean, heart-breakingly complicated.
It is not wrong to feel the way you do. It's natural and sweet. She can't feel the same way and take your money for appts. It is just not done. If she feels for you, she will not take your money for what you do together.
But you have a contract now and the contract is that you pay and she is paid. Changing the terms of the contract is not cool.
And you are worthwhile enough to direct your most precious of emotions to someone who CAN and WILL feel that way about you, back.
There is nothing wrong with adding a little social time to an appt IF and ONLY IF you were not crushing on her already.
But you are. You are, you poor thing! A slice of pizza at this point would be a bad idea.
Find a civvie to love and protect your heart.
Lord knows we have to work hard enough to protect our own hearts without some client falling in love with us. I don't think she will welcome your declarations. But if she does, never pay her another dime.
Thank you so much for this. Even though its not what I want to hear. It has given me a different perspective.
Trust me when I say I know what I'm talking about.
People you pay to be your friends are not your friends. You are a client, not a friend, and not a lover. It feels real because aspects of it are real but
It is not real. I wish I could tell you it was real. I know how you are feeling. I have been there and so have countless others and
It never works out. It never really does. It will hurt and twist you like nothing else.
It becomes real when money is off the table, darling. At least, for her.
And that is where it is gets complicated. I mean, heart-breakingly complicated.
It is not wrong to feel the way you do. It's natural and sweet. She can't feel the same way and take your money for appts. It is just not done. If she feels for you, she will not take your money for what you do together.
But you have a contract now and the contract is that you pay and she is paid. Changing the terms of the contract is not cool.
And you are worthwhile enough to direct your most precious of emotions to someone who CAN and WILL feel that way about you, back.
There is nothing wrong with adding a little social time to an appt IF and ONLY IF you were not crushing on her already.
But you are. You are, you poor thing! A slice of pizza at this point would be a bad idea.
Find a civvie to love and protect your heart.
Lord knows we have to work hard enough to protect our own hearts without some client falling in love with us. I don't think she will welcome your declarations. But if she does, never pay her another dime.
money is taken in civie world day to day as is, lol. women call those dudes sponsors and it has nothing to do with the hobby. No such thing as unconditional love anyways...if you want that type of love buy a damn dog!!! It's better to spend money on a hott girl in the hobby than some low grade woman in the real world and deal with drama and she probably wouldn't even perform well for the same money or even take money.
money is a very powerful device...when i want it and how i want it without being up in my business is the draw anyway. but without the money there is no power so it's a loss for the dude anyways.
Thumbs up!
Trust me when I say I know what I'm talking about.
People you pay to be your friends are not your friends. You are a client, not a friend, and not a lover. It feels real because aspects of it are real but
It is not real. I wish I could tell you it was real. I know how you are feeling. I have been there and so have countless others and
It never works out. It never really does. It will hurt and twist you like nothing else.
It becomes real when money is off the table, darling. At least, for her.
And that is where it is gets complicated. I mean, heart-breakingly complicated.
It is not wrong to feel the way you do. It's natural and sweet. She can't feel the same way and take your money for appts. It is just not done. If she feels for you, she will not take your money for what you do together.
But you have a contract now and the contract is that you pay and she is paid. Changing the terms of the contract is not cool.
And you are worthwhile enough to direct your most precious of emotions to someone who CAN and WILL feel that way about you, back.
There is nothing wrong with adding a little social time to an appt IF and ONLY IF you were not crushing on her already.
But you are. You are, you poor thing! A slice of pizza at this point would be a bad idea.
Find a civvie to love and protect your heart.
Lord knows we have to work hard enough to protect our own hearts without some client falling in love with us. I don't think she will welcome your declarations. But if she does, never pay her another dime.
money is taken in civie world day to day as is, lol. women call those dudes sponsors and it has nothing to do with the hobby. No such thing as unconditional love anyways...if you want that type of love buy a damn dog!!! It's better to spend money on a hott girl in the hobby than some low grade woman in the real world and deal with drama and she probably wouldn't even perform well for the same money or even take money.
money is a very powerful device...when i want it and how i want it without being up in my business is the draw anyway. but without the money there is no power so it's a loss for the dude anyways.
he asks. she says no. it's over.
Not very complicated.
As cynical as it sounds it is true. Think about it this way. You wouldn't fall in love with an ATM machine, right, so why should she?
Trust me when I say I know what I'm talking about.
People you pay to be your friends are not your friends. You are a client, not a friend, and not a lover. It feels real because aspects of it are real but
It is not real. I wish I could tell you it was real. I know how you are feeling. I have been there and so have countless others and
It never works out. It never really does. It will hurt and twist you like nothing else.
It becomes real when money is off the table, darling. At least, for her.
And that is where it is gets complicated. I mean, heart-breakingly complicated.
It is not wrong to feel the way you do. It's natural and sweet. She can't feel the same way and take your money for appts. It is just not done. If she feels for you, she will not take your money for what you do together.
But you have a contract now and the contract is that you pay and she is paid. Changing the terms of the contract is not cool.
And you are worthwhile enough to direct your most precious of emotions to someone who CAN and WILL feel that way about you, back.
There is nothing wrong with adding a little social time to an appt IF and ONLY IF you were not crushing on her already.
But you are. You are, you poor thing! A slice of pizza at this point would be a bad idea.
Find a civvie to love and protect your heart.
Lord knows we have to work hard enough to protect our own hearts without some client falling in love with us. I don't think she will welcome your declarations. But if she does, never pay her another dime.
I tend to be a repeater, but at least some variety is healthier.
. . . unless you have to pay just to hang out.
If you consider her as a friend (not girlfriend) and she consider you as just a client, that might be an issue
become attached to providers when many are trying to get away from the problems of a LTR/marriage.
stop seeing her 3-4 times a month OR keep seeing other ladies until you find one just as good.
i don't have an ATF but I have seen one lady on more occasions than others.(This is only 3-5 times per year compared to 1-2 for other ladies) What has happened is I have become less interested in seeing her than before i.e., after a while the novelty fades. This is normal to me and when I start to feel apathetic or bored, it's over.
Soooo, early on in my hobby career, I'd say 3-4 years in I was seeing a provider who was relatively new to the "game." She was an "11" by any man or womens standards. She was flat out gorgeous; smart; conversational; witty, etc, etc, all the attributes I look for a women not to mention a freak the way I like a freak to be a freak.
Well, my time seeing her taught me the value of the Snoop Dog line "we don't love them Ho's." No offense ladies!
Why I say I "Almost" fell for the trick is becasue coming into the game that was the consistent feedback I came across as I joined sites like TER and others (who I'm not allowed to mention here).....DON'T GET CAUGHT UP!! This is a "bidness!"
In my teen years growing up in the heart of the city another nugget of wisdom I got from a old player, Mr. Ray, he always reminded us young bucks that women got waaay more game than men. I've learned that's true. While ladies who you develop a real connection with will be few and far between in the hobby you will learn that they are better at compartmentalizing their emotions and feelings and seperating them from the "envelope." With that said my ATF was good at making me feel like the sexiest lover; best hang-out buddy she ever had. And while her feelings were genuine on a certain level I always, in the back of mind, knew that I better simply enjoy the moment/s and when the clock stikes Midnight, return the glass slippers. With this ATF she was the only one (since I've been hobying) I did overnights with and flew her to a couple of places around the country that I was in on business. We saw each other for a good five year streatch. She eventually retired and is now married with a newborn and moved to another state. We even communicate now (every 6 mos+ or so) just to see how each other is doing. I even sent her a gift for her new born.
As Sexy Jaye noted above, try some interaction with out involving a fee and/or spending more OTC real world time together and that will tell the story. While my ATF would give me deep discounts and even some inconsequential OTC time her whole mood would change when I would suggest interaction outside the Provider/Hobbyist boundaries. And in my moments of clarity I would also pick up on her steely focus when she would unconciously provide a peak "behind the curtain" and I would see her number 1 goal was to keep the envelopes coming.
So GET A GRIP M-FER!!!!! Sing along with me "........These girls aint loyal..............
Thanks bro, I learned from the old school players too, although I don't always take their advice. Honestly speaking the relationship you had with your ATF sounded pretty good. Like it got as real as it could get given the circumstances. I might try that angle. It was never my intent to get all weird and Ralph Wiggums like, and present her with a card that says I Choo- Choo Choose you with a picture of a train on it (don't front, I know y'all remember that). I am lame, but not THAT lame.
Yes, I would highly recommend that, given your current feelings, arrange some overnights and even weekend/multiple days session. This will serve two purposes: 1. You'll be in her company for an extended period of time which would scratch your itch to be with her. 2. During extended sessions the parties involved tend to let their guard down more and you begin to see the real person; flaws, inconsistencies and all, as well as what attracts you to them. This will then begin to dismantle the infatuation you have for her. Real life (knowing she's in the bathroom taking a shit; seeing her without make-up; hearing her talk to her real life friends and family on the phone about real life stuff) always tends to burst and/or shrink the fantasy bubble. Just like a marriage or committed relationships...paying mortgages, raising kids, and all the other real life stuff can make who, when and how you're fucking a distant memory or a non-existent thought, if but for a pocket of time periods.
There was one time with my ATF that there was a glitch with her receiving my payment via pay pal prior to her flying out to see me on the West Coast. The mood changed pretty quick after we had to couple of iterrations getting the payment stuff resolved. It was no fault of either party just a "shit happens" moment. This was one of the times I got a peek behind the curtain. Neither party got irrate or crossed the line where it would permanently damage the relationship/arrangment. But we both could feel we were on the ledge/edge to saying........."Well Fuck You Then."
It was during our extended sessions that I was able to get those peeks "behind-the-curtain" and recognize that our relationship is primarily a Provider/Hobbyist, TRICK relationship. There is a reason one of the terms used for us hobbyist is "Trick." If the provider is on her game they will do a good job in "tricking" us that we are the best thing since sliced bread and that they/we had the best sexual experience of our lives. Even to the point where dudes will/can catch feelings.
With that said, I'v also seen this play out on the provider side. I've had this happen to me twice in my hobby career. In both cases I opted to NOT follow through. In one case I wish I would have. She began providing temporarily to find a dude she wanted to have a NSA/hang-out buddy relationship with. We had two sessions together and at the end of the 2nd session she popped the proposal: ".....Look, we have a good vibe together and we seem to click, would you be open to ocassionally hanging out and we go to movies, dinner, whatever and simply enjoy each others company? You can pay, not pay, pay something, whatever is comfortable for you." To her credit, she readily admitted that she was lonely. And that's the part that scared me away. I was like huh?!?! What?!?!? This is too good to be true! She must have a hidden BSC persona in her somewhere that will come back to bite me. I had the premise of the movie Fatal Attraction lurking in the back of my mind. Hence, I declined the offer....nicely. In retrospect I shoulda gave that situation a chance to work. I coulda always vanished if BSC showed up
soooo tempting. LMAO!
There was one time with my ATF that there was a glitch with her receiving my payment via pay pal prior to her flying out to see me on the West Coast. The mood changed pretty quick after we had to couple of iterrations getting the payment stuff resolved. It was no fault of either party just a "shit happens" moment. This was one of the times I got a peek behind the curtain. Neither party got irrate or crossed the line where it would permanently damage the relationship/arrangment. But we both could feel we were on the ledge/edge to saying........."Well Fuck You Then."
It was during our extended sessions that I was able to get those peeks "behind-the-curtain" and recognize that our relationship is primarily a Provider/Hobbyist, TRICK relationship. There is a reason one of the terms used for us hobbyist is "Trick." If the provider is on her game they will do a good job in "tricking" us that we are the best thing since sliced bread and that they/we had the best sexual experience of our lives. Even to the point where dudes will/can catch feelings.
With that said, I'v also seen this play out on the provider side. I've had this happen to me twice in my hobby career. In both cases I opted to NOT follow through. In one case I wish I would have. She began providing temporarily to find a dude she wanted to have a NSA/hang-out buddy relationship with. We had two sessions together and at the end of the 2nd session she popped the proposal: ".....Look, we have a good vibe together and we seem to click, would you be open to ocassionally hanging out and we go to movies, dinner, whatever and simply enjoy each others company? You can pay, not pay, pay something, whatever is comfortable for you." To her credit, she readily admitted that she was lonely. And that's the part that scared me away. I was like huh?!?! What?!?!? This is too good to be true! She must have a hidden BSC persona in her somewhere that will come back to bite me. I had the premise of the movie Fatal Attraction lurking in the back of my mind. Hence, I declined the offer....nicely. In retrospect I shoulda gave that situation a chance to work. I coulda always vanished if BSC showed up.
Honey, cause she chasing the Money....Also if she is a local lady, most local ladies don't go out to much in the DMV, as they limit their chances of being spotted by clients, so you would end up back at her place or yours anyway. I love you cats who pay a providers rent. I'm glad to come over and stretch her holes while you hard at work. And don't think I'm going to stop just because you outside the window crying and begging. (FlashBack)
I Love All You Sexy Ladies, Please Don't Judge Me, I Will Get 100yrs
DaTruf
Yeah, speaking from an experience that still stings even though it's been years, definitely keep your feelings to yourself if you want to keep seeing her.
. . . if "to see her" means "to have sex with her". That's how she makes a living. One should never ask for it for free. She might take extended trips with you, do overnights with you, go shopping or have dinner with you -- all for free -- but the sex part should not
"ask to see her OTC" means ask her out on a civvie date - lunch, dinner, drinks, coffee, museum, whatever - and make it clear you are not willing to pay for her time. She will certainly resolve your dilemma for you ...
It never even occurred to me that anyone, well except maybe DaTrufe, would actually consider calling a civvie lady to ask her if she wants to have an hour of sex at 8pm Friday night ...
Completely agree. I wouldn't expect her to give me freebies. Not at all. Her "real" opinion of me does matter to me though. Never done an overnight, but if I did I'd at least hope that the provider genuinely enjoys my company. Otherwise what's the point? I wouldn't think you'd spend all that time getting it in.
good point! I like the way that you think 
Completely agree. I wouldn't expect her to give me freebies. Not at all. Her "real" opinion of me does matter to me though. Never done an overnight, but if I did I'd at least hope that the provider genuinely enjoys my company. Otherwise what's the point? I wouldn't think you'd spend all that time getting it in.
Go see a bunch of other ladies. I've had a couple ladies who I clicked with so well, that under different circumstances I would have been very interested in pursuing a civvie relationship. At those moments, it's really reinforced to me just how superficial this hobby can be, how there is so much more that two people can offer to each other. But for this hobby to "work", you need to have the clear boundaries. So for me, I will elect to spend time with hobby ladies who are beautiful, sexy, smart, and many other great qualities - but who are NOT the exact personality type that makes me think, "holy crap I REALLY like this girl, her personality, her humor, she really "gets" me, I'd love to get to know her better..." Hopefully I'll meet someone OUTSIDE the hobby like that for a relationship that fullfills the needs that this hobby can't.
"So for me, I will elect to spend time with hobby ladies who are beautiful, sexy, smart, and many other great qualities - but who are NOT the exact personality type that makes me think, "holy crap I REALLY like this girl, her personality, her humor, she really "gets" me, I'd love to get to know her better"
this is an interesting dynamic in the hobby world. That is, do you actively seek different personalites or one who you would -for lack of better comparison- have been in your circle of friends in high school/college or a close co-worker at your job. I tried seeing someone that was different than I would normally see and it was a disaster! Of course, with some ladies you don't find out what they are like until you meet them
I like to spend time with ladies who are down-to-earth, as I am, but I've also enjoyed the company of a lady or two who brings a different type of intensity too. Main thing I look for in reviews (other than services and physical attributes), is a sense that she seems to enjoy things too, is fun to be with as a person, isn't overly mechanical.
What I was referring to in my post is how I evaluate things AFTER a first hobby date or two. I realize that this could be a very different way of looking at things for single guys vs married guys. Or hell, maybe it's just me and where I'm at in life... But FOR ME, in the hobby, I don't want to spend time with ladies I could see myself liking TOO MUCH in the way that I described in my other post. Because I see this as a dead end. While I like people, hearing their stories, etc. (and this hobby has introduced me to so many amazing interesting women), I don't want to spend time with women who upon the first meeting or two I am just so intrigued by them that I want to know so much more about them. I'm smart enough to know that this can't be part of the hobby for me. And what I'm talking about isn't being starry-eyed after a date with a 10 and having really great sex, it's about the very few ladies who I got along with SO well when talking to them that it made me realize how much I really desire a true intimate relationship with someone I care about. That is why I replied to the OP, because my way of protecting MYSELF, and just keeping things light and fun is to not allow myself to get caught in a situation where I could easily become too attached to a lady. Because I'm single, I need to look for that type of relationship outside of the hobby.
i have never felt like I could have a relationship with any lady I've met in this hobby.
I read on an earlier post that the cure is to see other providers and her less.
I found that I missed the familiarity with her but the excitement of seeing someone new showed me what I was missing and the reason I started lobbying in the first place
So many great providers are out there, check them out and you will be alright.