Atlanta

I'm going to play devil...
goddesscapri 703 reads
posted

and ask for the providers opinions not to discredit what you've said ga_k because I think what you've said is GREAT and an attitude I applaud and am hoping most clients have. However, I believe the  "&^#hole who tries to take advantage" that MyFriendTony mentions are far more the rule then the exception BECAUSE of the sex negative society we live in, because of the attitude (see below) of our clients, and because of the Nature of the biz.
In this Tits and Sass article Charlotte Shane make some of the same points I want clients and providers alike to think about. Although, some of her thoughts may seem to contradict what I'm saying, I think we are both advocating for the exact same things.  
http://titsandsass.com/getting-away-with-hating-it-consent-in-the-context-of-sex-work/

"I don’t teach clients how to “pleasure” me; that is far too intimate and a boundary I don’t cross."
She says this because this is the attitude of most clients that most providers have to deal with.  A client who comes in wanting to "please" or help "pleasure" the client. "Then, why do we (providers) do this?, is the second part of the question you'll get once you try to explain...
"Then again, pretending is a substantial part of what I’m hired for and I usually oblige. Faking sexual pleasure makes my job easier. It makes clients happier, it makes them come faster, and it makes them more likely to see me again. Win/win/win," she goes on to say.

And that's just for the escorts. What about the dancers, pro dommes and body rub providers who all deal with the same clientele or, at least, the same type of clientele with the same mind set?  

My point is where and how can we create a more inviting atmosphere where these things should be discussed openly with fear of losing clients, being humiliated, etc?
"I’d like it if we asked questions like these in larger sex worker communities as opposed to only posing them to ourselves or to our immediate friends. I honestly don’t think the general public is ready to consider much if any of these nuances, but it would be nice if they were."

A recent line in my weekly Law and Order (SUV) Sunday marathon watching got me thinking. The line was "you can't rape a whore" and although I don't have any research to back up whether or not this is the thought of majority for clients/johns etc., I wondered  "if Sex Workers should be more proactive in stating what the boundaries are?"  Some may already have rules that work for them put into practice but, I'm wondering how we can help the community by making this a highly suggested practice for ALL sex workers and clients. In my experience... I identify Pro Domme, I have some clients who expect vaginal/oral and sometimes anal sex during a session and try to push boundaries. Enforcing this as a DOMME is a bit easier but how can we make it the rule as opposed to the expiation for those in other lines of sex work?

To be clear, my concern isn't respecting boundaries, most of my clients will let me know they respect boundaries but this is only AFTER they have tried what they wanted to do. I want to create an atmosphere that it is EXPECTED that a client should ask BEFORE trying to insert things in places, if it's okay. Again, I know this is not all clients, as I too have some clients to ask beforehand, but I honestly don't think that this is a majority practice. I would like to see this from all clients whether he/she is getting a rub, dance, sex, BDSM session whatever!!...  

I am familiar with the saying "Ask for forgiveness not permission", hell, I use that myself sometimes but I'm hoping through education and advocacy this mutual respect for a persons BODY and PERSONAL SPACE, asking BEFORE not AFTER will become the rule.  
Please, let me know your thoughts.

You want something known to your partner - say it. Some people are still hung up, bashful, hesitant, or simply just don't talk about sex in a graphic sense. Why not?

Like being fingered? Just Say So.
No Anal? Just Say So.  
But you like a finger slipped in backdoor during intercourse? Just Say So.  
Want me to suck your toes? Just Say So.... well, you get my point.  

I may agree or disagree with your likes/dislikes but if we have both done some homework on TER (me searching your reviews and website, you reading my reviews) - then we'll have a good to great time.

"Just Say So" being said... I would not discuss these things with a lady before a first time encounter via phone or email for security reasons, but once we are behind closed doors - almost nothing said would offend me in the "get to know each other" conversation. Even if I do get offended, a sincere smile or peck on the cheek makes me forgive and forget.

hope this helps, ga_kosh

and there's really no need to rely on mind reading, inferences, dropping hints or anything else other than direct communication.  We have to do enough mind reading in civi relationships.

I'm going to play devil for a little bit:
So depending on how kinky you are this could be a really long conversation??
This is really great feed back I'm receiving from the clients and any feed back from the providers is also greatly appreciated.  What have you all experienced? Does this convo usually take place beforehand?  
I'm preparing a How To... Workshop for the next SWU (Sex Workers University) workshop I'm having. Any advice??

beforehand. Try to come up with something you wouldn't normally hear in bed like "pineapple" or "Egg McMuffin." I think if you scream Egg McMuffin in bed the other person would stop quickly.

Kinky as far as me the Client or you the Provider?  

Provider answer is certainly not mine. Some have Kinky in their screen names, others have Kinky in their ad posts. If they don't come forward here - might be worth the PM to them individually. Some are bound to help, others are just bound (yukyukyuk, and rim shot sound on the cymbal)

As a client, I think that (for the most part) the more intimate (or final) details can be covered in a "Getting to know Each Other" conversation in the first 10 mins or so of a visit. I personally have NOT done anything less than 120 mins for a first time BDSM or fetish play appt. For me, "Talking takes time", but to pay-off is worth it - especially when it comes to fetish play - so I consider more/extra talk time to get safe phrases, limits, etc. A good time can go to worthless quickly if you Assume something rather than Know it.

I also rarely do less than 90 mins appt (my taste, but to each his own) on any first visit - same reason.  

As I stated in a previous thread:  
A well-done website detailing possible various services between consenting adults - and a few reviews - should have your kink side covered. You might even write a few stories of your various proclivities/offered services and post these stories on your website. A story talking about how you like having your hair pulled in doggie or being a dominatrix or whatever else you wish to offer gives your potential and even past clients some insight into your world.

With effort and some luck, you will discourage much of the 'too timid' and the 'too bold' from your own tastes.

As far as initiating the conversation, ask "How can I please you today?" or "What can I do to make you leave here smiling?" or  

"What fantasy do you want fulfilled today?" (my personal favorite).  
My response varies depending on what I already know about the lady. If I'm uncertain, I have used the line "I have this fantasy involving a Weed Eater, a Live Chicken and some Peach Preserves" (those items are borrowed from an old country song) along with my most boyish, crap eating grin - just so I could judge her reaction. Usually a good icebreaker.  
And yes, Once and only once did a lady respond "Okay, but I don't have a Live Chicken."  My kind of gal, then she retired.  

I have more but others will chime in.  

ga_kosh

Really you watch SUV?   The whole premise of the show is mean are evil and if you are not as pure as the wind driven snow you get what you deserve.  I never thought I would use this line but you have better ways to spend your time.

In my experience, a simple 10 minute conversation defining expectations and limits will avoid virtually all disappointments among honest people.  

If we can't agree on things after that conversation, if it doesn't feel right, we should exercise some good judgement and just "kiss and say goodbye."

Of course, there will always be some &^#hole who tries to take advantage (this is an unfortunate condition present in both the male, female, and other population).  In my opinion, those with this moral deformity should be banished (disappeared) from our community.  There is just NO excuse for attempting to impose your will on someone if it goes beyond their boundaries/comfort zone.  It's not like the marketplace doesn't offer willing partners to participate in every desired fantasy.

As far as the rape question...really?  Doesn't everyone on this board participate in promiscuous sexual activity (the definition of whore)?  I'm sure there are some who might like the rape fantasy, but for the rest of us...cross the line and suffer the consequences of your ignorance/stupidity.

Peace,

If the hobby is legal then the escort will have full protection under the law. If a John forces himself on a lady. Under the current system the escort can't call LE without fear of being busted.

In Europe in which hobbying is legal and an accepted form of occupation. Ladies have more legal protection. I heard that brothel rooms are equipped with a panic switch. A lady can flipped the switch and two big dudes quickly storm in breaking up the dispute. Getting a blacked eye from a burly guard isn't the way I would spend my escort Euros on.

Remember to always ask a lady before you do anything. As the Ladies' Man, Leon Phelps puts it. "Do you want to do it in the butt. No! That's cool and just move on."

There are enough regulations...I REFUSE to be regulated by the government.  FUCK THAT!  Are you serious?  MY BODY,  MY RULES!  Good GOD!

More regulations could mean a safer environment for all involved. Don't get me wrong I'm not in it for the moral restitution, I could care less about what people think of me. But I do care about how I'm TREATED because of how others think of me and if people think they can treat me as someone who doesn't have a VOICE because of what I do, that's a problem. Up to and including clients who do whatever the eff they want because the profession isn't legalized.  

Think you for your input, I love this discussion!!

you aren't screening well enough....I have never been wronged, or made to feel inferior during an appointment.  I do my due diligence in screening.  I don't have those issues.  Maybe you should have more stringent screening?  Just a suggestion.  And like I said...NO ONE will regulate what I do in my own space.  While I'm driving or out in public, sure...not in my own space and place.  

K

The unions advocate better working environments, higher wages, retirement funds and etc. In America you can't get SS if you are an escort.

That really shouldn't be your concern.  For various reasons that I will not get into.  You pay taxes....you get SS....no one's business.....besides...who is going to live on SS?  It won't exist when I retire.....or any of the youngsters doing this!

-- Modified on 7/20/2015 6:06:48 PM

I do think decriminalizing the hobby would be a good idea. I don't like government regulations in the hobby. I was not saying that.  All I was saying was that if we decriminalize the hobby then ladies would be able to call the cops if they are endangered.

In Europe buying it isn't a big deal unlike in America.

waits for government regulated hookers.  My god man your Viagra would wear off waiting in line.

IF I was mistreated,  raped or abused, I'd still call the cops...my life is important....I don't need regulations to call the cops.  Yea,  I wish it was legal too....but...that's never going to happen.  OH wait,  gay marriage did!??  Who knows....

GaGambler617 reads

Unionized hooking would be a horrible idea IMO, as is the Nevada model, BUT prostitution is legal in MANY places in the world and works just fine without a lot of unnecessary regulations to fuck it up.  

I think Costa Rica is a great example. Prostitution is legal, pimping is not. It's all out in the open but is mainly concentrated in a few areas away from schools and "polite society" and it coexists quite nicely with the rest of society.

I think it's important to remember that what you are saying is in your experience. You would fell comfortable, how many (independent or not) working in the profession honestly feel the same?  

I guess my point is to try to make the best environment safe and reliable for ALL involved not just few. As someone once told me "In the south it's done but NEVER ever talked about." I would like to challenge and change that.  I think your ideas about screening would make a good topic for one of my How To... SWU (sex workers university) workshops. Free workshops and education for those entering or curious about the biz. Could I talk to you more about it offline?  

And.... "I am not only a client (provider)..." I'm also, currently the president of Atlanta SWOP chapter. I would not only like to be in the business, get what I can and get out, I would like to help "better" (use that term as you please) the business by offering advocacy, education and outreach to make sex work safe and more enjoyable for all involved.

When are you all going to realize that as long as the government can make money busting hookers and john's, it won't be legalized!  It's a business on ALL ends of the spectrum and this isn't Europe.  
Amsterdam also is OK with hard drugs! What's next?  
The government doesn't care if you need your dick sucked or if we need money. They MAKE MONEY on all this.
I wouldn't care for my body or me being regulated either

So is that the consensus for most providers, that you will have to deal with regulations?  What if it provides a SAFER environment for ALL involved??? Or is that just a pipe dream??

Is the client going to be escorted in by a "regulator"?   Monitor the situation?  This is silly....

I'm not advocating that, actually I just want the work decriminalized. But if I were, having a regulator is not the only way things could be safer in this community.  As of now, lots of women who work in this industry feel they can't report if violated or if they now of someone who has been a victim of a fatal crime, not to mention, working conditions could be better and public health could improve, and yes I do think these problems will be lessoned if sex work was decriminalized

let's make this legal....get STD testing monthly and fuck bare back?  The incidents of fatal crimes in this business,  SCREENING of course is extremely low.  Unless you are on the street hustling...that's NOT what we are about.  I don't buy your premise.  I don't acquiesce to demands.  I am in total control of the situation.  COMPLETELY.  Take that as you wish.  But,  I am secure.  VERY secure.  I don't fuck around.

No, I'm not writing a paper right now but the thought has crossed my mind, not for school but for other reasons. And I'm not debating that you are secure.  What about the women who are not secure and do feel afraid? What should they do??

Then they are in the wrong business,  like you are.....what ignorant questions from someone who "runs" seminars.  DUMB!

GaGambler686 reads

but there is one common theme I have found about seminars.

The people that run them rarely have a clue about what they are talking about, all they need to know is just a little bit more than the people that are attending. lol

I thought more of her when I thought she was a "fake" hooker, maybe a reporter pretending to be a hooker to get a story. I am rather disappointed that the people running SWOP, a cause that I actually support, are so ill informed.

Adults, adults...I simply wanted to get a discussion started. No need to be rude. Also, the 4 -5 opinions stated on here are just that. OPINIONS. How could I write a paper on that?  Again, this was just to start a discussion, not world war III and certainly not to be disrespected.  Can we have a discussion that doesn't result in name calling and disrespect??? And if supported by you as you say... whycome I never seent you at any of the meetings??

Lol who's name calling?  I wasn't being rude either. Honestly, if I were so insecure and feared the gentlemen I see, I would quit providing.   How in the world am I supposed to attend a meeting I had no idea even existed here in Atlanta?  Good for you for helping others. I am all for helping other's. This is a discussion board though and I just simply stated my opinion to a question you ask

No one insulted you or called you names.  We just tell it like it is on this board.  No one meant to hurt your feelings.  And no,  I don't need meetings,  I've been in this business since 2007.  I don't need meetings.

Posted By: terrilynn
When are you all going to realize that as long as the government can make money busting hookers and john's, it won't be legalized!
 
The government could make significantly more money if it were legalized and taxed.  It is not the money.  It is about getting votes and legislating morality.  Both parties would lose too many votes from their base to support legalization.

Considering most ladies already pay taxes, how do you think they would make more? You really think hookers don't pay taxes?? Lol!!

and ask for the providers opinions not to discredit what you've said ga_k because I think what you've said is GREAT and an attitude I applaud and am hoping most clients have. However, I believe the  "&^#hole who tries to take advantage" that MyFriendTony mentions are far more the rule then the exception BECAUSE of the sex negative society we live in, because of the attitude (see below) of our clients, and because of the Nature of the biz.
In this Tits and Sass article Charlotte Shane make some of the same points I want clients and providers alike to think about. Although, some of her thoughts may seem to contradict what I'm saying, I think we are both advocating for the exact same things.  
http://titsandsass.com/getting-away-with-hating-it-consent-in-the-context-of-sex-work/

"I don’t teach clients how to “pleasure” me; that is far too intimate and a boundary I don’t cross."
She says this because this is the attitude of most clients that most providers have to deal with.  A client who comes in wanting to "please" or help "pleasure" the client. "Then, why do we (providers) do this?, is the second part of the question you'll get once you try to explain...
"Then again, pretending is a substantial part of what I’m hired for and I usually oblige. Faking sexual pleasure makes my job easier. It makes clients happier, it makes them come faster, and it makes them more likely to see me again. Win/win/win," she goes on to say.

And that's just for the escorts. What about the dancers, pro dommes and body rub providers who all deal with the same clientele or, at least, the same type of clientele with the same mind set?  

My point is where and how can we create a more inviting atmosphere where these things should be discussed openly with fear of losing clients, being humiliated, etc?
"I’d like it if we asked questions like these in larger sex worker communities as opposed to only posing them to ourselves or to our immediate friends. I honestly don’t think the general public is ready to consider much if any of these nuances, but it would be nice if they were."

GaGambler749 reads

Are you are "real" hooker?  

Me thinks you are not really part of this community and are here simply trying to gather information for a term paper, magazine story, or the like?  

Not that there is anything wrong with using the likes of us for research, lord knows it's been done a thousand times before, but I don't like dishonesty, and your candor would be appreciated if I am correct.

The reason I ask is that a real hooker has a body of real world experience with which to take the answers she gets into context, while an academic has no such experience to draw from. So please, Are you a "real" hooker?

Yes I a real hooker, been a body rub provider and Pro Domme since 2012. You can check me out, www.goddesscapri.com

As a Pro Domme I request not to be reviewed but you can check out my b2b reviews 218008. Keeping in mind that I plan to hang up the Ashley J (in Atlanta) hat at summers end and continue my Pro Domme work.

But in all fairness... Who knows??? This is good material for a paper...

Read about this point in the attached article.

For God's sake, keep the government out.  Get them involved and we're all $ucked...no pun intended.

Is that not allowed?  If not, I'll see you all after the summer when I plan to give up B2B completely.

GaGambler718 reads

Don't be surprised if this entire thread goes bye bye along with you as soon as Admin sorts it all out.

Not a problem.. I really just wanted to get the thoughts of those in the community.

SWOP Atlanta is looking for members!!

-- Modified on 7/20/2015 5:06:40 PM

GaGambler810 reads

I think they should find a better spokeswoman for the Atlanta chapter as quite frankly you did a piss poor job of getting your message across. No offense intended of course. lol

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