Perfect answer!
You completely turned the negotiation away from "what she is worth" to "how much can you pay." Once she finds out the other 12-24 guys she's talking to won't pay anywhere near that (probably saying something like "no way, babe. no pussy is worth 2k"), she will remember that you took her seriously and never challenged her "worth." She'll either find a schmuck (er I mean wealthier) SD who will pay the $2k (at least at first) or she'll come back to you with a more reasonable expectation.Is there a strong correlation between lifestyle amount and the amount that it takes to go BCD?
From my experience, it's not always related. In my local market, the 20-22's generally favor "Moderate" while 25+ generally favor "Negotiable." But, 3-400 works well.
Interested in what others have found.
The younger ones seem much more aware of the age difference. But, at some point, they do not seem to care. In my experience, 27 or so. I'm "55."
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... in a relatively high cost market (LA), was 500, which resulted in an overnight with a woman who was a 9 on any objective scale, and whose performance was definitely a 10. Like, four times in 12 hours - and I didn't think I had a night like that in me at my age, which is about the same as yours. Plus, I actually like her.
I tend to steer towards mid-30s, personally, and find good results with "negotiable" - especially if she's basically independent and dating this way to supplement things.
I've managed to wind up BCD without making a contribution at all, too - more of a "show me what you've got" play - but too much of that makes me feel like a jerk so I try not to, or at least square up in the days to come. But 400-ish sounds reasonable for places other than the Bay Area, New York, LA, or DC, I'd reckon.
Read, think, know.
I fish the same waters, and have found $500 often works for overnight.
4× in 12 hours?! Impressive, as always (and, he doesn't BS).
I tend to steer towards mid-30s, personally, and find good results with "negotiable" - especially if she's basically independent and dating this way to supplement things.
I've managed to wind up BCD without making a contribution at all, too - more of a "show me what you've got" play - but too much of that makes me feel like a jerk so I try not to, or at least square up in the days to come. But 400-ish sounds reasonable for places other than the Bay Area, New York, LA, or DC, I'd reckon.
I have seen SBs with a "substantial" profile listed who were perfectly happy to hop in the sack for three hundred, and I have seen women who've checked "moderate" on their profile who have held firm at $500.
I haven't really noticed too many of the SB being all that aware of the age difference, but I am honest about my age in my profile. I am 58, so since I do look quite a bit younger than my actual age, if they do actually agree to me with me, they are never concerned about my age. I am sure a LOT of them are concerned about being with a old fucker twenty years older than her father, but those SB's don't respond to us old guys any how, so no harm no foul.
Now I do have to say there was one SB who was approaching GF status, (she never wanted any money) who was a bit worried about me meeting her father someday, she was 28 and she suggested we lie about my age down to 45 and he would be okay with it. It was flattering that she was positive he would believe I was 45. lol
BTW that SB who had substantial in her profile also had "if you don't make at least $500K a year, don't bother replying" I saw her several times and never gave her more than $300.
Now there are some profiles that make me want to take a pass, but a high lifestyle is not one of them. It's amazing how quickly they will leap off that pedestal if number one, they like you at least a little bit and number two, they realize you are willing to walk if they stick to their "demands"
Now OTOH, if you are old, fat, and kind of disgusting, you might have to pony up that extra money to make it worth their while, but I am pretty damn average in the looks department and I seem to do just fine.
I've found that the more I talk to SBs, the more I am willing to walk AND the more that I can connect with them on some level.
Actually, just not being "weird" makes a guy stand out. Being height weight proportionate, having a nice smile, a full head of hair, and a sense of humor do too. Plus, I've been in sales, too, over the years, so I know how to listen and ask questions. They LOVE talking about themselves....lol
Now there are some profiles that make me want to take a pass, but a high lifestyle is not one of them. It's amazing how quickly they will leap off that pedestal if number one, they like you at least a little bit and number two, they realize you are willing to walk if they stick to their "demands"
Now OTOH, if you are old, fat, and kind of disgusting, you might have to pony up that extra money to make it worth their while, but I am pretty damn average in the looks department and I seem to do just fine.
Now OTOH, if you are old, fat, and kind of disgusting, you might have to pony up that extra money to make it worth their while, but I am pretty damn average in the looks department and I seem to do just fine.
of the criteria cited, I try not to pony up anything north of $500 and prefer to negotiate between 300-400 and no more than 2-3 times per month. Since I am not "pretty damn average" I prefer to search only the Minimal, Practical, and Negotiable lifestyles. Add to that my preference to wait for an SB to message (or at least favorite) me 1st and I think we start off with reasonable levels of expectations. Of all the messages I get only about 10-15% are from high dollar lifestyles.
Works for me, but as always YMMV, so experiment and see what works for you.
Generally speaking, I no longer waste my time contacting a younger newbie of say less than 25 in age, who has just appeared on the SA scene with that stated High or Substantial Lifestyle expectations, because I rather have other potential SDs to wine/dine her and then pummel her down to reality that the actual offered range per meeting is between 300-500. She will also find out very quickly that those who promise 1K-2K per meeting are very far and few in between and that an arrangement with such a Unicorn on the SD side of the ledger is not always a blissful one.
Now if I see the same potential SB on the site after a few weeks or month, I will be motivated to contact her to present myself and my credential. As Gambler has correctly stated, many of those who aspire to Substantial or High expectations will settle for a "paltry" stipend ranging in 300-500. Also don't forget that some of these potential SBs do really fantasize about going on some exotic island type or overseas vacation with shopping allowance, fine dining, etc... They also dream of such fantasies and aspirations when they state their higher expectations and if you are a potential SD with vast means and resources, then why not take a deserving, well maintained younger beauty on your next planned vacay and live fantastical few days with her in your arms on an exotic location that makes you taste every sentinel of this Life? OTOH, if a greedy and gold digging SB is only is interested in Louboutins, Louis Vuittons, take, take, take; just kick the b*tch to the curb. Just like GaGa, I don't mind splurging extra $ on something lavish when I'm at least 1/2 beneficiary, but an entirely different story when the woman is going to be a full beneficiary with a complete sense of self-entitlement.
more importantly for me, I haven't seen a high correlation between the lifestyle expectation and how desirable the women seem to me. Given the depth of talent, I don't even bother looking at women that have a high or substantial expectation. Plenty of amazing women at negotiable, moderate or less. I've also noted a number of women who were at substantial a year or more back that have gone to negotiable or even as far down as practical, in at least one case. I may approach them once they get to a more reasonable level. No need to waste time explaining to some SB why she's not being reasonable when there are so many hot SB's already where you want them to be.
Of the 15 or so SB's I've had substantive discussion with over the past 2 weeks and got to the point of talking about allowance (expectation of negotiable, moderate or less), only one has suggested that 500 was too low. I actually offered 700 and she wasn't budging from 2k. There's definitely something special about her; just not special enough for me to pay 2k to find out. She claimed to be negotiable.
Last three I contacted, 2 negotiable an 1 moderate. All were 25. Moderate, hot looking black girl came straight out an said 250. Negotiable Latina started at 700 each for her an her girlfriend. I offered 300 an she jumped on it. Seeing her Tuesday and then maybe the two of them. The other hot looking, negotiable black girl, I offered 300 an she laughed. So for the heck of it I offered 700 and she called me cheap an she was insulted. Checked her out on Facebook. She's use to the high end lifestyle and the whales out there. Don't know why she considers herself negotiable. Thankfully I did that one over phone calls and emails an didn't waste my time or money on a dinner or something. So it doesn't really matter.
From my experience, it's not always related. In my local market, the 20-22's generally favor "Moderate" while 25+ generally favor "Negotiable." But, 3-400 works well.
Interested in what others have found.
The younger ones seem much more aware of the age difference. But, at some point, they do not seem to care. In my experience, 27 or so. I'm "55."
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21yo coed, pretty, like an 8 most likely:
I need to stay in my lane with the late 20's to early 40's....
"I'm still fairly new to this so please don't be offended if I say an amount that you don't agree with, but is intimacy is involved I'd like to see 2K each time."
I said, "Uh, well I wish my budget could extend up there...good luck...etc.
From my experience, it's not always related. In my local market, the 20-22's generally favor "Moderate" while 25+ generally favor "Negotiable." But, 3-400 works well.
Interested in what others have found.
The younger ones seem much more aware of the age difference. But, at some point, they do not seem to care. In my experience, 27 or so. I'm "55."
-- Modified on 3/19/2017 5:19:36 AM
-- Modified on 3/19/2017 5:20:33 AM
I find correlation between the Lifestyle Expectation and the amount asked, but it's a loose one. I know of some Substantials who gladly accepted $500 in NYC and some Moderates in other cities who wouldn't go lower than $600. I had one Substantial accept $300--though I never met her--and learned that she put herself in that category only to find classier guys, not more money.
I generally skip the High group and often skip the Substantial group. Very few SBs put themselves in the Minimal category--maybe an ego thing--and some who do are seeking much more than the category suggests. I think the profile narrative is often a better indicator of their price than the Lifestyle Expectation category. If the SB needs money for rent or loans and likes gift cards from Target, her price will be modest. If she uses the words "spoil," "shopping," and "luxury," and mentions high-end brands, her price is likely to be hefty.
The Negotiable category is almost meaningless. What it SHOULD mean is that her initial request is not her final request, though that isn't always the case. But is the negotiation at the low end, such as between $100 and $200, or at the high end, say, between $1,000 and $2,000?
I often separate my searches by Lifestyle Expectation category and then look through the results. For an interesting exercise, I suggested to one of my buddies to do a search of High and compare the attractiveness of the women in that category to the looks of the Moderates. With the exception of a few DDG SBs in the High group, the Moderates were generally more attractive. There were some in the High group who had no chance of getting more than $500 per date, if that, from a SD with any sense.
Perfect answer!
You completely turned the negotiation away from "what she is worth" to "how much can you pay."
Once she finds out the other 12-24 guys she's talking to won't pay anywhere near that (probably saying something like "no way, babe. no pussy is worth 2k"), she will remember that you took her seriously and never challenged her "worth." She'll either find a schmuck (er I mean wealthier) SD who will pay the $2k (at least at first) or she'll come back to you with a more reasonable expectation.
A lot of guys here seem to relish "telling an SB off" when her "ask" is deemed delusional. I disagree, I am her to get laid, and to hopefully get laid "a lot" Telling girls to fuck off and blocking them when their asking price is a little (or a lot) too high is not the way to achieve that goal.
I'll go back to my example about the "substantial" girl who also stated "if you don't make at LEAST $500k a year, don't bother contacting me" She was getting some very bad advice from a male friend who thought he was helping her. We met for dinner, she was cute as fuck and I really did want to fuck her, but she started off telling me about the only other guy she had gone out with and how he had started pressuring her for sex from the very first minute. Good listener I am, I took her at her word and never spoke about "sex for money" for the entire date, but I did make it clear that "allowance starts at intimacy". At the end of dinner, I offered to "take her home" if that's what she wanted me to do, but she told me she wasn't "in that big a hurry" and to make a long story short we drove directly to the nearest hotel, had a great time and I gave her a whopping $300 which she seemed VERY happy to get.
Sometimes you just never know. The one thing I do know is that if I had asked her at the beginning of the date if she would have sex with me for three hundred bucks, it would have been a VERY short date. lol
I agree that you don't have to slap them across the face with reality, let them find out for themselves and you never know when one of them might remember you as that "nice guy" who didn't tell her off and block her.
SB: :I'm still fairly new to this so please don't be offended if I say an amount that you don't agree with, but is intimacy is involved I'd like to see 2K each time."
Me: "OK. Well, I'm not brand new. I really like to have just one special friend, and there has to be a connection--which I sense we would have.
I wish my budget would stretch to where you need, but it does not. In fact, please do not be offended, but I have had wonderful long-term friends who were thrilled with the 300-400 range per time.
Good luck to you. You seem to be tons of fun. You're going to make some guy very happy."
My "negotiable" demanded $1500 per visit. My response was similar to yours. I just told her that was not possible for me and best of luck. while I never heard from her again I still agree there's no point in offending anyone or telling them they are nuts. You never know!
Newbie SB'S join with lofty ideas their friends have told them or from what BS they have seen on tv or online. When reality hits then they blick you or drop off of SA. My guess this is around 20%. The smart ones figure out the game and get religion quickly.
These so-called friends who introduce and turn their newbie friends onto SA, usually have some experience as SBs but exaggerate their lifestyle or allowance by factors of multiples because they don't wish to be deemed as some cheap "whore" selling themselves to dirty ol' men! They also tend to project some form of life-style grandiose which very rarely exists because after all which is said and done, a very high percentage of the punters on this site only PPM. This PPM amount varies depending on youth, looks, *services offered / sought and time spent.
*services can be construed as anything, be it heavily sexual, heavy dosage of companionship or whatever in between which floats the boats of both the beneficiary and the benefactor. As you know this ranges from 300 to 500 along the 'Diego to LA corridor.
Their SB friends are likely exaggerating what they get. Certainly, any press articles I've read paint a vastly different picture. I mean, it's all part of the marketing ruse.
I have met only one SB in DC (who turned out to be way BSC) who actually had a SD who: 1) did not have sex with her (which, after I did, I wish I didn't--can you say ordinary....), and 2) bought her a whole bunch of expensive jewelry, clothes, and shoes. I saw one of the rings he gave her (she had the appraisal with her!). Mid five figures. She was wearing a $1,500 pair of boots he gave her, and was carrying a $5,000 handbag. [I looked up the prices of those things later.] She also had a cashmere coat. She was pretty, but BBSSCC, or Double BSC. She said he was "socially awkward" and had an "f-ed up smile." She said she was nice to him, but he had moved on to women who really knew how to spend his money. (He's likely a paypig, and doesn't know it....). I gave her $400--which she wanted upfront. Bad Vibe. I doubt I'll go back. She was worth half, if that.
All other SB's I've met who have talked about other SD's (a touchy subject, really) have indicated that he gave them more than I did. I say, in so many words, "Well, you've both moved on. You're where you are. If you want more, do more." NONE have told me I am giving them more than previous SD's. LOL