Politics and Religion

Re: The release and rescue of American hostages
DoctorGonzo 106 Reviews 502 reads
posted

Posted By: nuguy46
To all of you liberals who believe your president' s position that war was the only alternative I offer you this fact.    
 The United States controls over 50% of the world's banking transactions. Using that leverage alone against Iran would have at the very least ensured a better deal - maybe even the release of our American hostages that your president couldn't be bothered with.  
 So please STOP with the "war was the only alternative" line of argument. It is part of your president' s false narrative, a childish and ignorant argument, and frankly just plain wrong.  
 So today he's off to caviar, steak and golf....while 4 families who had watched his childish behavior sit and pray for return of their loved ones. A president that didn't WANT to use logic in negotiations. History will judge him as one step lower than Carter on the rungs of Presidents.
It is a documented fact that not even the resident Nazi or his Planet Stupid brethren can deny, that on several occasions in the past, Israel has released thousands of PLO and Hamas terrorists from prison in order to get back a single Israeli soldier captured by the terrorists, sometimes even only the corpses of soldiers. The entire war with Hamas last year was started when Hamas kidnapped three Israeli CITIZENS. All one needs to do is look at the lengths Israel will go to rescue and recover their people, whether they are citizens of Israel or the United States or the Falasha Jews of Ethiopia. Does the word "Entebbe" ring any bells?

Contrast this with Obama and his capitulation and appeasement deal with the Persian Hedgemony. As the POTUS and "Leader of the Free World", demanding the release of the Americans being held should not have been at the top of his list. It should have been a PRE-CONDITION to ANY negotiations with them.

It's difficult to imagine a President who was more flaccid and feckless than Jimmy Carter, nor more boorish and comical than George W Bush. I'd compare him more to Neville Chamberlain, the 20th Century British Prime Minister before Churchhill. His policy of Appeasement empowered Hitler and the Nazis to damn near take over and destroy the European Continent.

Today, in the 21st Century, it is the Persian Hedgemony, newly empowered by the Great Appeaser Barack Hussein Obama.

363 and counting.

nuguy462869 reads

To all of you liberals who believe your president' s position that war was the only alternative I offer you this fact.  
The United States controls over 50% of the world's banking transactions. Using that leverage alone against Iran would have at the very least ensured a better deal - maybe even the release of our American hostages that your president couldn't be bothered with.
So please STOP with the "war was the only alternative" line of argument. It is part of your president' s false narrative, a childish and ignorant argument, and frankly just plain wrong.
So today he's off to caviar, steak and golf....while 4 families who had watched his childish behavior sit and pray for return of their loved ones. A president that didn't WANT to use logic in negotiations. History will judge him as one step lower than Carter on the rungs of Presidents.

Posted By: nuguy46
To all of you liberals who believe your president' s position that war was the only alternative I offer you this fact.    
 The United States controls over 50% of the world's banking transactions. Using that leverage alone against Iran would have at the very least ensured a better deal - maybe even the release of our American hostages that your president couldn't be bothered with.  
 So please STOP with the "war was the only alternative" line of argument. It is part of your president' s false narrative, a childish and ignorant argument, and frankly just plain wrong.  
 So today he's off to caviar, steak and golf....while 4 families who had watched his childish behavior sit and pray for return of their loved ones. A president that didn't WANT to use logic in negotiations. History will judge him as one step lower than Carter on the rungs of Presidents.
It is a documented fact that not even the resident Nazi or his Planet Stupid brethren can deny, that on several occasions in the past, Israel has released thousands of PLO and Hamas terrorists from prison in order to get back a single Israeli soldier captured by the terrorists, sometimes even only the corpses of soldiers. The entire war with Hamas last year was started when Hamas kidnapped three Israeli CITIZENS. All one needs to do is look at the lengths Israel will go to rescue and recover their people, whether they are citizens of Israel or the United States or the Falasha Jews of Ethiopia. Does the word "Entebbe" ring any bells?

Contrast this with Obama and his capitulation and appeasement deal with the Persian Hedgemony. As the POTUS and "Leader of the Free World", demanding the release of the Americans being held should not have been at the top of his list. It should have been a PRE-CONDITION to ANY negotiations with them.

It's difficult to imagine a President who was more flaccid and feckless than Jimmy Carter, nor more boorish and comical than George W Bush. I'd compare him more to Neville Chamberlain, the 20th Century British Prime Minister before Churchhill. His policy of Appeasement empowered Hitler and the Nazis to damn near take over and destroy the European Continent.

Today, in the 21st Century, it is the Persian Hedgemony, newly empowered by the Great Appeaser Barack Hussein Obama.

363 and counting.

Has Israel ever said “give us back our hostages” and we will stop building the Iron Dome?  How about “give us back our hostages” and we will stop targeted assassinations? Give us back our hostages and we will sign the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty?

         The answer is obviously “no.” Why? Bc as much as Israel loves its people, Israel realizes that the security provided by these and other measures outweighs the fate of the hostages.

        It is no different here. The importance of reducing the Iran break-out time for a nuclear bomb far outweighs the fate of the American hostages. It would have been insane to risk our chances of stopping Iran from getting a bomb by imposing release of the hostages as a precondition.  All that would have accomplished, as President Obama explained in response to Garrett’s question, is to give Iran MORE leverage to demand concessions in the nuclear deal.

        And why stop at making release of the hostages a “precondition? “ Hezbollah has 80,000 rockets aimed at Tel Aviv. Hamas still has thousands.  Many of these deadly weapons were supplied by Iran, even though Iran had little free cash to finance its arms exports.

         Now, let’s lift sanctions and give Iran hundreds  of millions of dollars in oil revenue. With Benji refusing to take a preemptive strike off the table, what is the prudent move by Iran – send more rockets, and more powerful rockets, to its allies.

That is going to happen..

       Shouldn’t we use our leverage to protect against Iranian behavior that threatens the life of thousands of Israelis? No more arms shipments, or no deal. Shouldn't that be the "precondition"?

      So, while I understand your position from an emotional standpoint, the cold hard truth is President Obama correctly made the executive decision that we had to stop Iran from getting the bomb –period-  notwithstanding that Iran would continue its bad behavior in many other fields

Thanks for pointing out the very important differences.  ;)

The key difference of opinion here Mari is that I do not believe Obama has stopped, but rather has emboldened the Persian Hedgemony even further.
My reasons have been stated already

The only hedgemonist in all of middle eas is Israel.  

Other than a minority geriatric Jewish population in the U.S., rest of the Jewish population is sick of Netanyahu and his war mongering to keep himself enshrined as Israeli prime minister. Yes, I do read Jerusalem Times and subscription

That really makes sense to you? Well, maybe to someone who thought the Bergdahl deal was such a good move. Know anybody like that?

We gave away the fkin farm and got shit back in tangible results. To a bunch of terrorist thugs.

And you cant possibly believe this STOPS Iran from getting a bomb. Even you cant believe that. Obama destroyed any chance of a meaning inspection process by immediately taking off the table the "unfettered access" provision needed to ensure compliance.

The sanctions lift, which begins immediately,  without the dismantling of the nuke infrastructure, only guarantees MORE money for Hezbollah and Hamas and more money for its own terroristic plans, and allows the Iranians to start back up at ANY time.

Iran had "one of a kind" at the table, the scared to death leader of the free world, Obama, acted like Iran had a royal flush. AGAIN.

Once again, Obama has looked evil in the eye, like he did with the Cubans, the Taliban, ISIS and Syria, and capitulated.

Neville Chamberlain would be so proud

GaGambler345 reads

I think Chamberlain is starting to look like a tough guy in comparison.

I have sincere doubts history will say the same about this.

Churchill kept Chamberlain on in his war cabinet and reportedly wept at his funeral. Churchill was the Netanyahu of his times. He tried to sound the alarm regarding Hitler for years, only to be minimized and ridiculed.


-- Modified on 7/17/2015 4:52:51 PM

Has the Hamas charter been altered to remove the goal of the Destruction of Israel and the Jewish people? Never was.

Did Hamas use the 1.6 million tons of concrete imported into Gaza in the last year to rebuild infrastructure? Nope, no infrastructure, but new tunnels built right up to the border with Israel.

Does the Abbas-provided map of "Palestine", as it was presented to the United Nations, show borders with Israel proper?
No, there is no Israel on their maps, or at the United Nations, or in their Charter.

Has Israel signed Peace treaties wih Egypt and Jordan? Yes to both.
Have those treaties held? Yes, there have been stressful times, but the treaties have held.
It is not Israel that violates treaties or cease fire agreements.

I really wish you of all people here would broaden the scope of your news sources. you almost sound like you're drinking the Kool-Aid. I do not fault Obama;s intention, but I do believe and have maintained all along that his naivete in dealing with the Persian Hedgemony will prove disastrous for everybody, including the poor jihadist fools from both the Shiites and Sunnis who really believe in 72 virgins. And in a clash between the Sunni and the Shiite, I wish them both success in their goal of wiping out the other guy.

Just so we're clear on where I stand; Here's to a Unified Jerusalem, Eternal Capital of Israel and the Jewish people.
L'Chaim!

You may well be right that Mr. Obama’s Iran foreign policy in general turns out to be a disaster. I can’t make that call.  

       Where you lost me is when you said we should make release of the hostages a “precondition” to any nuclear agreement. That makes no sense to me bc an Iranian bomb is sui generis - it is the one true existential threat to Israel.  Stop the bomb and we will worry about lesser Iranian bad behavior later.

        You have not commented on the hostage precondition at all, so I’m still not sure why you hold this position.

       The Iran agreement does remove the existential  threat. To me, “breakout time” and “detection time” are all that matters. Breakout time is extended from three months to  one year, and detection time is reduced.

        Why is the one year breakout time so critical? This comes from our military- they told the president, “give us a year and we can destroy Iran’s nuclear facilities if they go the bomb route.” So, yes, we allowed the Iranian’s to keep some centrifuges turning. Does not matter bc if they go the bomb route, we can and hopefully will destroy their facilities.

        But I am always open to expanding my news sources. As long as you are not talking about Fox, what news sources would you recommend

Did you not see the unbridled joy in the streets of Iran after the deal was completed? You don't think the mullahs knew how important this deal was for their people, for their country, both financially and psychologically?

The Iranians NEEDED this deal, Mari. Desperately so.

So I ask again...

Do you really think the Iranians would have walked away from the $150 billion pump into their pockets/economy,  from the ability to not have to dismantle their weapons program and the added benefit of UNSCOM needing to give them a months notice to inspect those sites...they would have given ALL THAT up that just so they could keep four, meaningless and insignificant Americans as hostages, for some indefinite period, that they were probably going to release at some point anyway?????????

Ummmm...ok. So we are going to allow money to be poured back into a terrorist state that considers us the great Satan, which will enable them to continue to fund their terrorist activity, ever per Obama.

So lets review...

Our enemies in the region, the Iranians, Hezbollah, Hamas and the Syrians, are rejoicing in the streets.

Our key allies in the region, Israel and the Saudis, are pissed.

No unfettered access, didn't even try. The centrifuges keep spinning, the program is not dismantled, the Iranians get a month heads up before they have to show UNSCOM a site for inspection and the hostages remain In Iran's grips.

What else needs to be said about how fkin bad a deal this is?

nuguy46531 reads

.....and the worst Pres in history said OK !!! (This in the face of JCS and SecDef specific comment this should NOT be done)....... but he couldn't do the same and ask for 4 American hostages be released!!  (but he could release 5 American killers for 1 US Army deserter and then parade around the Rose Garden feelin' the deserter's mom).......

Also the Iran Special Forces (Quds) Chief who had been named as a terrorist and whose money had been frozen, is now NOT on the list and his millions unfrozen.  This guy named by many US military as killing more US soldiers in Iraq than any other individual..........Unfu****g believable.

Time will reveal just how bad a deal was made....

Not that you are capable of asking such question or be able to think deep enough to understand. Partisan blinders destroys brain cells forever and can't be fixed.

(1) United States does not control 50% of international banking transactions. International banking system is an interconnected network and each country controls its own domestic network and transactions. London is major clearing house.

(2) As the President said, this negotiation five other parties (China, France, Germany, Russia, UK) and if the U.S. had walked, sanctions have withered away without any agreement because others have significant business interests. You may not know geography that , China and Russia borders Afghanistan, China wants to build a gas pipeline and Russia wants to sell them weapons. Germany also has significant industrial interests in Iran.  

(3) There is no leverage because none of the others were interested in including hostage negotiation as par of the of the nuclear negotiation and if US insisted and walked away, what the President said would have been the outcome.  

(4) Republicans empathy is a fucking farce. You are the party that started a war on lies and got thousands and thousand Americans, and Iraqui's killed for absolutely no reason. You phony tears for hostages is indeed heartening to see.

(5) The people who negotiated the details of the agreement are hell of a lot smarter than you. Some were actually Nuclear Physcists from MIT. Go read an excellent article on NY Times instead of being dumb shit

thisbud4u497 reads

Why are you staying her taking all this BS from the "worst" President in our history.    Think about moving somewhere else.    Your BP and heart rate may come down and calm down to normal levels.

pot/kettle359 reads

Did Australia get smart and turn you away at the border?????

Or did you get stuck in Vegas banging a bunch of hookers on New Year's Eve????

Or are you still cleaning up from that Super Bowl Party?????

nuguy46493 reads

sounds so much like Obama....and what happened?  yup, N Korea now has multiple nukes.
Can Dems acknowledge facts?  Been pretty difficult doing that on this board.

thisbud4u524 reads

You should go to London's Hyde Park and there is a place called "Speaker's Corner".   Anyone can stand up there and give a speech.    You should do that instead of getting all hyped up in an Escort board.

bigguy30435 reads

This President has done more than the GOP clown show can handle.  
They sound and look like fools.
Just like all of the GOP on TER.
The black man told you to shut the fuck up! Lol

Posted By: nuguy46
To all of you liberals who believe your president' s position that war was the only alternative I offer you this fact.    
 The United States controls over 50% of the world's banking transactions. Using that leverage alone against Iran would have at the very least ensured a better deal - maybe even the release of our American hostages that your president couldn't be bothered with.  
 So please STOP with the "war was the only alternative" line of argument. It is part of your president' s false narrative, a childish and ignorant argument, and frankly just plain wrong.  
 So today he's off to caviar, steak and golf....while 4 families who had watched his childish behavior sit and pray for return of their loved ones. A president that didn't WANT to use logic in negotiations. History will judge him as one step lower than Carter on the rungs of Presidents.

And this old Jew is telling you to heed your own advice, ie. shut the fuck up. There is plenty of bullshit across the spectrum in this thread, from civil diatribe to political spin to outright racism, bigotry and unbridled hatred.

Fuck this shit, I'm goin' to find me some pussy.

"The True Man wants two things: danger and play.  For that reason he wants Woman, the most dangerous plaything"  

Now THAT'S what I'm talkin about

bigguy30418 reads

The next time you write a comment put the drink down first.
So most of the bullshit is coming from your comment!
 

Posted By: DoctorGonzo
And this old Jew is telling you to heed your own advice, ie. shut the fuck up. There is plenty of bullshit across the spectrum in this thread, from civil diatribe to political spin to outright racism, bigotry and unbridled hatred.  
   
 Fuck this shit, I'm goin' to find me some pussy.  
   
 "The True Man wants two things: danger and play.  For that reason he wants Woman, the most dangerous plaything"  
   
 Now THAT'S what I'm talkin about.  
   
   
   
   
 

thisbud4u355 reads

... and negotiate the release of those Americans.     Spreading hate does not help.   Do something good.

thisbud4u422 reads

Did not Dubiya round up people around the Muslim world and hold them and torture them in Gitmo?   Where is your outrage.    None of them were charged.    No one even knew what they did to end up at that place.

So before you start hating President Obama why not go back in time and answer the above. ?

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