So this guy reviews a 1987 to 1997 study of concealed carry permit holders, and talks to a friend who says he would not take his family to an Orioles game without his gun, and concludes that Maryland’s requirement of a “good and substantial” need for a carry permit is bad policy? Let’s just give a permit to anyone who wants to carry a gun in public, like Plaxico Burress, or gun safety instructor Lee Page?
Ya think that study was a little out of date? The study was pre-Heller when the District of Columbia and many large cities precluded public carry. Hence, the study looked at only 2.5 million permit holders. There are over 11 million today. Want to multiply those 168 incidents accordingly? The study looked at how many had their permit revoked for an “offense involving a firearm?” Guess what? In most states, the mere accidental discharge of a firearm is not grounds for revoking a carry permit. It’s like the rule on dog bites- the first bite is free. Unless the sheriff thinks you are a danger to yourself or others, you can keep that carry permit. Did this guy look at the real questions at all? How many accidental discharges in public occur each year? How many times do permit holders engaging in self defense shoot the wrong guy? How many times do kids pick up the gun and shoot little sister? Let’s get those numbers and compare the total to the number of times permit holders actually successfully defend themselves. Then we will have a basis to determine if “good and substantial need” for a carry permit is good or bad policy. Finally, Ed, I’d like to invite you to an Orioles game this summer. MARC runs a special train from Washington DC to Camden Yards. We’ll have dinner at the Rusty Scupper in Baltimore Harbor, and then during the seventh inning stretch I’ll treat you to some Boog Powell barbecue. After the game we’ll walk back thru the harbor around midnight. I can assure you don’t need to bring your gun. I’ve done this many times. The only risk you are likely to face is a little heartburn from Boog’s BBQPublished March 14, 2015
And I'm not against the 2nd amendment. I have a hand gun, and I went through the background check and wait but some kind of reform needs to be done. I'm not an NRA member if that helps.
-- Modified on 3/17/2015 9:15:31 AM
I'm also not an NRA member nor a concealed carry permit holder.
I too favor stronger background checks but more importantly we need much better enforcement of existing laws. Illegal weapon purchases and use in crimes is prosecuted not nearly strongly enough. Mari might try to have us believing otherwise but the vast majority of gun crime involves illegal weapons.
But banning weapons merely because they are scary looking or hold more rounds than a legislator thinks is reasonable is not just ridiculous, I think it's illegal. I own two Springfield XDM pistols, a 223 rifle, not even close to an AR (Ruger Mini-14 ranch rifle) and a classic World War 2, M1 Garrand rifle that only holds an 8 round clip. Recent NY law makes ALL of them illegal in that state. Colorado does the same except they are grandfathered (the Garrand may still be legal in CO).
So this guy reviews a 1987 to 1997 study of concealed carry permit holders, and talks to a friend who says he would not take his family to an Orioles game without his gun, and concludes that Maryland’s requirement of a “good and substantial” need for a carry permit is bad policy? Let’s just give a permit to anyone who wants to carry a gun in public, like Plaxico Burress, or gun safety instructor Lee Page?
Ya think that study was a little out of date? The study was pre-Heller when the District of Columbia and many large cities precluded public carry. Hence, the study looked at only 2.5 million permit holders. There are over 11 million today. Want to multiply those 168 incidents accordingly?
The study looked at how many had their permit revoked for an “offense involving a firearm?” Guess what? In most states, the mere accidental discharge of a firearm is not grounds for revoking a carry permit. It’s like the rule on dog bites- the first bite is free. Unless the sheriff thinks you are a danger to yourself or others, you can keep that carry permit.
Did this guy look at the real questions at all? How many accidental discharges in public occur each year? How many times do permit holders engaging in self defense shoot the wrong guy? How many times do kids pick up the gun and shoot little sister? Let’s get those numbers and compare the total to the number of times permit holders actually successfully defend themselves. Then we will have a basis to determine if “good and substantial need” for a carry permit is good or bad policy.
Finally, Ed, I’d like to invite you to an Orioles game this summer. MARC runs a special train from Washington DC to Camden Yards. We’ll have dinner at the Rusty Scupper in Baltimore Harbor, and then during the seventh inning stretch I’ll treat you to some Boog Powell barbecue. After the game we’ll walk back thru the harbor around midnight.
I can assure you don’t need to bring your gun. I’ve done this many times. The only risk you are likely to face is a little heartburn from Boog’s BBQ
I love how you attempt to diminish the one and only large point in this video, that the person you refer to as “this guy” was actually a very long standing and high ranking Maryland State Police Trooper. He had held a variety of management positions including several that put him extremely close to a wide variety of gun violence. Plus he was for a term, the chief state arbiter of who did and did not receive a personal concealed carry permit. I know why you overlooked his huge credibility on this subject near and dear to your heart but I am actually surprised you did so. I don’t believe he ever stated your fabricated reasoning of “Let’s just give a permit to anyone who wants to carry a gun in public…”
Study out of date? I haven’t seen any evidence that the extremely low percentage of revocations can’t be extrapolated to a larger base today. 0.0035% (discounted because over half of the violations cited for carrying into a no gun zone) is still an extremely low number. The answers to most of your many questions that “this guy” didn’t address can probably be summed up in another statement you ignored regarding law enforcement personnel when “this guy” stated that the safety record of concealed carry private citizens exceeded that of law enforcement. One question back at you, how many little sisters are shot with weapons owned by people holding concealed carry permits vs. those that do not vs. those that do not legally own the weapon? Remember, this hearing and video was about concealed carry permits. Maybe someone else will point you towards data addressing the irrelevant question regarding successful defense.
I’d love to be your guest at Camden Park sometime. Next time I’m in the vicinity during the season I’ll let you know. Fresh Baltimore crab cakes sound delicious. I missed them last fall when I had to cut short my driving tour. I only made it to Virginia and Tennessee and back, never making it to the Chesapeake and then Outer Banks as originally intended. I don’t know about the barbeque though. If the pulled pork is anything like other east coast or North Carolina recipes I’ve had, I’ll probably pass; too much vinegar. I’ve been spoiled by too much authentic Midwest barbeque, here in Illinois and parts nearby.
And BTW, regarding bringing my firearm to the ball game, I won’t be carrying it anytime soon. Even if Maryland law granted reciprocity to Illinois (which they do not), I still don’t have a (now but recently made legal) Illinois permit. It’s still too early and I have no desire to become the next test case when a local sheriff in some liberal county decides to invent his own interpretation.
But bringing this issue up again is important as it brings to light your casual dismissal of who “this guy” really was and who his “friend” was. I repeat that I am actually disappointed you seemed to intentionally ignore the outstanding fact they were both police officers, with the testifying witness before the Maryland legislature making several very remarkable admissions of newly found astuteness on this very important subject. THAT was the point I thought might stick with you
You may be more familiar with their sister organization, the Scottsdale Gun Club, you know, the one in Arizona whose member range gave a Uzi to that nine year old girl to shoot under the supervision of one its seasoned instructors. That didn’t turn out so well, did it?
But how thoughtful of you to remind me that the “guy” was a former police officer without acknowledging that he now is a gun rights activist. Why do you think police officers carry more weight with their opinions on carry than other witnesses? Aren’t most retired police officers NRA members?
You were impressed that police officers had more gun violations than ordinary citizens? Now why do you think that is? Could it be bc they carry 24/7 as opposed to the occasional trip to Starbucks by ordinary Second Amendment cowboys?
I happen to oppose all public carry out on common sense policy grounds – I believe the injuries caused by public carry far out weigh any successful uses of guns for self defense, the question you deemed irrelevant. But if we must have some public carry, giving permits to people who actually have a real self defense need is a reasonable compromise. Best as I could tell from this guy’s rambling speech, his point was the Maryland legislature had limited permits to “good and substantial need” without defining how to meet this standard. This led to confusion among those officers tasked with granting permits.
That is a legitimate reason to have the legislature define “ good and substantial need” – not a legitimate reason to do away with this requirement and grant permits to anyone.
But I’m delighted to hear that you don’t have an Illinois permit and aren’t currently carrying – you’ll be a LOT safer, and me too if I ever venture to Chicago
This State Trooper's law enforcement credentials make him one of the most suitable people possible to have an opinion that should carry weight with anyone. I recognized his present views and saw them as a positive, nothing to ignore or hide. This seemed obvious to me. Now that he is a gun right's (specifically concealed carry) advocate only furthers his credibility simply because he's seen both sides.
I REALLY thought someone that has truly seen both sides of this issue would hold at least a little cred with you. You only saw what you hated. I guess nothing will change your jaded view of the Second Amendment short of getting mugged.
I don't LIVE anywhere near Chicago although I enjoy occasionally visiting. Even if I had a CC permit I would never bring it, at least not until the Chicago machine has lost a court case or two