Politics and Religion

DA_Flex I agree with your comment and article posted! eomteeth_smile
bigguy30 341 reads
posted


END OF MESSAGE

DA_Flex1398 reads

Which has been the point I've been trying to say for quite some time, while others say I have been police bashing.  Here is an article written by former policeman that even more eloquently states the problem that we have in our police forces, especially when it comes to the first rule of policing.  

Here are some snippets:
"Spend time at any law enforcement training facility in the country and you will likely hear a familiar refrain, “Officer safety is our number one priority.” In fact, this may be the most revered of our guiding principles. When considered figuratively, it can create appropriately strong motivation for law enforcement officers to approach their duties carefully, even cautiously. If interpreted literally, it becomes problematic and perhaps even paradoxical.

A number of law enforcement agencies are currently under fire for their patterns and practices of “stop and frisk.” This is only the present manifestation of what has been for decades a national epidemic of illegal police practices rationalized by the mantra “officer safety.” Frisks are not supposed to be the rule in Terry-type stops; the rule would be no frisk. The same is true for handcuffing subjects and placing them in the back of police cars.  

Yet, some officers perform these actions as “routine officer safety precautions” even in the most ordinary of investigative detentions. These intrusions on privacy and liberty are supposed to be reserved for those exceptional Terry-type situations in which there is an articulable reason to believe that present threats require them. "

And the most important portion in my mind:

"Every officer understands that obligation at a basic level, but this clarity of purpose can quickly become clouded when viewed from the perspective of officer safety above all else. Constitutional law does not make police officer safety the highest priority. Rather, particularly in Fourth Amendment law, the Supreme Court uses a balancing test to decide what police officers can and cannot do under the Constitution. On the one hand are individual freedoms and privacy. On the other hand are the interests of government, including officer safety.  

So, where does one find the officer safety exception to the Constitution? Generally speaking, it doesn’t exist. Generally, the rights of the people trump the rights of an officer to be guaranteed a safe outcome in dangerous situations. This can be an uncomfortable truth, but to ignore it is to operate in a virtual reality that only exists in one’s own mind. The truth is law enforcement is a hazardous undertaking and there is nothing that can be done to eliminate all of its physical risks.

If the choice is between feeling safer by violating someone’s Constitutional rights or taking calculated risks while honoring our oath, the pledge we made when our badges found their home on our chests  is supposed to win every time. As in military service, doing our duty and following lawful orders will regularly put us at heightened physical risk.

So how come every employer spends as much money as it takes to make the workplace reasonably safe? Well, it is because that is state and federal law. The Occupational Health and Safety act applies to federal LE officers and requires training to teach the officer how to perform his duties safely. Many states have comparable state OSHA laws that apply to state law enforcement.

         The clueless authors of your article ignore this and set up a straw man – if there is no officer safety exception in the Constitution, the rights of the public have priority:

       “Generally, the rights of the people trump the rights of an officer to be guaranteed a safe outcome in dangerous situations.”

       That is just silly –officer safety is mandated by federal and state law up to the point where a particular safety measure would violate the Constitution. And in the Fourth Amendment context, that only happens when the search or seizure becomes “unreasonable.”  

          No police force takes steps to “guaranty” officer safety, or to insure officer safety “above all else”,  as your clueless authors suggest – they take only  reasonable steps pursuant to the requirements of law as well as common sense.

         A Terry stop is not allowed at all unless the officer has reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is afoot. If this threshold standard is met, the officer is still not entitled to conduct a patdown or frisk. The officer can only take this additional step if he has a reasonable belief the guy is armed and dangerous. An officer who makes a stop and does the patdown as a “routine safety precaution” –as opposed to meeting the two level standard - is simply violating the law.

         So as with your civil forfeiture critiques, the problem is not with the law but officers who violate it.  And they are subject to criminal, civil, and employment sanctions to deter this from happening, as we see in New York

Stop snd frisk is not a violation of the fourth amendment  

Posted By: marikod
         So how come every employer spends as much money as it takes to make the workplace reasonably safe? Well, it is because that is state and federal law. The Occupational Health and Safety act applies to federal LE officers and requires training to teach the officer how to perform his duties safely. Many states have comparable state OSHA laws that apply to state law enforcement.  
   
          The clueless authors of your article ignore this and set up a straw man – if there is no officer safety exception in the Constitution, the rights of the public have priority:  
   
        “Generally, the rights of the people trump the rights of an officer to be guaranteed a safe outcome in dangerous situations.”  
   
        That is just silly –officer safety is mandated by federal and state law up to the point where a particular safety measure would violate the Constitution. And in the Fourth Amendment context, that only happens when the search or seizure becomes “unreasonable.”    
   
           No police force takes steps to “guaranty” officer safety, or to insure officer safety “above all else”,  as your clueless authors suggest – they take only  reasonable steps pursuant to the requirements of law as well as common sense.  
   
          A Terry stop is not allowed at all unless the officer has reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is afoot. If this threshold standard is met, the officer is still not entitled to conduct a patdown or frisk. The officer can only take this additional step if he has a reasonable belief the guy is armed and dangerous. An officer who makes a stop and does the patdown as a “routine safety precaution” –as opposed to meeting the two level standard - is simply violating the law.  
   
          So as with your civil forfeiture critiques, the problem is not with the law but officers who violate it.  And they are subject to criminal, civil, and employment sanctions to deter this from happening, as we see in New York.  
 

bigguy30286 reads

This is why the NYPD is under a court ordered monitor now!

Posted By: JohnyComeAlready
Stop snd frisk is not a violation of the fourth amendment  
   
Posted By: marikod
         So how come every employer spends as much money as it takes to make the workplace reasonably safe? Well, it is because that is state and federal law. The Occupational Health and Safety act applies to federal LE officers and requires training to teach the officer how to perform his duties safely. Many states have comparable state OSHA laws that apply to state law enforcement.  
     
           The clueless authors of your article ignore this and set up a straw man – if there is no officer safety exception in the Constitution, the rights of the public have priority:  
     
         “Generally, the rights of the people trump the rights of an officer to be guaranteed a safe outcome in dangerous situations.”  
     
         That is just silly –officer safety is mandated by federal and state law up to the point where a particular safety measure would violate the Constitution. And in the Fourth Amendment context, that only happens when the search or seizure becomes “unreasonable.”    
     
            No police force takes steps to “guaranty” officer safety, or to insure officer safety “above all else”,  as your clueless authors suggest – they take only  reasonable steps pursuant to the requirements of law as well as common sense.  
     
           A Terry stop is not allowed at all unless the officer has reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is afoot. If this threshold standard is met, the officer is still not entitled to conduct a patdown or frisk. The officer can only take this additional step if he has a reasonable belief the guy is armed and dangerous. An officer who makes a stop and does the patdown as a “routine safety precaution” –as opposed to meeting the two level standard - is simply violating the law.  
     
           So as with your civil forfeiture critiques, the problem is not with the law but officers who violate it.  And they are subject to criminal, civil, and employment sanctions to deter this from happening, as we see in New York.    
 

Can that be proven?

Posted By: bigguy30
This is why the NYPD is under a court ordered monitor now!  
   
Posted By: JohnyComeAlready
Stop snd frisk is not a violation of the fourth amendment    
     
Posted By: marikod
         So how come every employer spends as much money as it takes to make the workplace reasonably safe? Well, it is because that is state and federal law. The Occupational Health and Safety act applies to federal LE officers and requires training to teach the officer how to perform his duties safely. Many states have comparable state OSHA laws that apply to state law enforcement.    
       
            The clueless authors of your article ignore this and set up a straw man – if there is no officer safety exception in the Constitution, the rights of the public have priority:    
       
          “Generally, the rights of the people trump the rights of an officer to be guaranteed a safe outcome in dangerous situations.”    
       
          That is just silly –officer safety is mandated by federal and state law up to the point where a particular safety measure would violate the Constitution. And in the Fourth Amendment context, that only happens when the search or seizure becomes “unreasonable.”      
       
             No police force takes steps to “guaranty” officer safety, or to insure officer safety “above all else”,  as your clueless authors suggest – they take only  reasonable steps pursuant to the requirements of law as well as common sense.    
       
            A Terry stop is not allowed at all unless the officer has reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is afoot. If this threshold standard is met, the officer is still not entitled to conduct a patdown or frisk. The officer can only take this additional step if he has a reasonable belief the guy is armed and dangerous. An officer who makes a stop and does the patdown as a “routine safety precaution” –as opposed to meeting the two level standard - is simply violating the law.    
       
            So as with your civil forfeiture critiques, the problem is not with the law but officers who violate it.  And they are subject to criminal, civil, and employment sanctions to deter this from happening, as we see in New York.    
   

bigguy30337 reads

Posted By: JohnyComeAlready
Can that be proven?  
   
Posted By: bigguy30
This is why the NYPD is under a court ordered monitor now!  
     
Posted By: JohnyComeAlready
Stop snd frisk is not a violation of the fourth amendment    
       
   
Posted By: marikod
         So how come every employer spends as much money as it takes to make the workplace reasonably safe? Well, it is because that is state and federal law. The Occupational Health and Safety act applies to federal LE officers and requires training to teach the officer how to perform his duties safely. Many states have comparable state OSHA laws that apply to state law enforcement.    
         
             The clueless authors of your article ignore this and set up a straw man – if there is no officer safety exception in the Constitution, the rights of the public have priority:    
         
           “Generally, the rights of the people trump the rights of an officer to be guaranteed a safe outcome in dangerous situations.”    
         
           That is just silly –officer safety is mandated by federal and state law up to the point where a particular safety measure would violate the Constitution. And in the Fourth Amendment context, that only happens when the search or seizure becomes “unreasonable.”      
         
              No police force takes steps to “guaranty” officer safety, or to insure officer safety “above all else”,  as your clueless authors suggest – they take only  reasonable steps pursuant to the requirements of law as well as common sense.    
         
             A Terry stop is not allowed at all unless the officer has reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is afoot. If this threshold standard is met, the officer is still not entitled to conduct a patdown or frisk. The officer can only take this additional step if he has a reasonable belief the guy is armed and dangerous. An officer who makes a stop and does the patdown as a “routine safety precaution” –as opposed to meeting the two level standard - is simply violating the law.    
         
             So as with your civil forfeiture critiques, the problem is not with the law but officers who violate it.  And they are subject to criminal, civil, and employment sanctions to deter this from happening, as we see in New York.      
   

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