and I fully agree that both Holder and Obama are huge racists, but that doesn't change the fact that in this one instance, he did the right thing.
For the record, the forfeitures were "lawful", a huge miscarriage of justice, but lawful, and civil forfeitures are still lawful, but a lot of the motivation to abuse this law have been eliminated by this new change in it.
Another good move by this AG. He worked to reduce the sentencing disparities between crack and cocaine, working to address the problem we have with sentencing guidelines, particularly with non-violent offenders. Now he has severely restricted local police's ability to utilize the Equitable Sharing program. Local police loved this program because 80% of the assets would go directly to the coffers of the local law enforcement budget rather than the state's general fund. The program basically evolved into a way in which local police subsidized their budgets instead of a means to really hurt drug cartels and potential terrorists. It basically criminalized the possession of cash while traveling on our roadways.
Now the next step is to get the states to reform this practice as well. There have been several articles about the efficiency that some jurisdictions have when it comes to civil asset forfeiture. Major cities, such as Philadelphia, Chicago and others routinely steal property from their citizens without due process. This also needs to stop.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/collection/stop-and-seize-2/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2014/08/26/philadelphia-civil-forfeiture-class-action-lawsuit/
Kudos to Holder
be gone and not too soon!
Working on sentencing disparities between crack and cocaine?
Yeah, let's let all those non-violent crack heads out of jail ... that can only be good for the country.
Really!? You cant see past your rabid partisanship to realize that sentencing disparities, excessive sentencing and in this case, Civil Asset forfeiture are real problems in the country. You do know that this nation incarcerates more of it's citizens than any country in the world. We have 2% of the worlds population and have over 25% of the worlds prison population. These are good things and credit is deserved.
Working on sentencing disparities between crack and cocaine?
Yeah, let's let all those non-violent crack heads out of jail ... that can only be good for the country.
I am still not so sure how I feel about the sentencing disparities between crack and powder cocaine. Although I believe that ALL drugs should be decriminalized, I still am quite aware that certain drugs like Crack, Ice, and a few others have nothing redeeming about them and are many times more harmful to their users than their powder counterparts.
Ok, Now for me giving credit where credit is due. YES, I 100% support rolling back this travesty of justice, and if Holder is the one responsible, I will begrudgingly give him kudos for doing so. Civil Asset Forfeiture was one of the worst laws ever passed, right up there with Obama Care, and the Patriot Act, and I for one say "Good riddance"
Sorry DA, There is nothing this AG can do to make me a fan. He's done too much wrong, and has too little time to atone for his past sins, but this is a HUGE step in the right direction, and I 100% applaud the action.
So yes you gave him credit, but your title says all we need to know about you.
The GOP scum and their supporters, always show they are bitter assholes!
Ok, Now for me giving credit where credit is due. YES, I 100% support rolling back this travesty of justice, and if Holder is the one responsible, I will begrudgingly give him kudos for doing so. Civil Asset Forfeiture was one of the worst laws ever passed, right up there with Obama Care, and the Patriot Act, and I for one say "Good riddance"
Sorry DA, There is nothing this AG can do to make me a fan. He's done too much wrong, and has too little time to atone for his past sins, but this is a HUGE step in the right direction, and I 100% applaud the action.
Because he doesn't have an approval from a GNAT.
LOL
Well at least he won the "overall" title. The P&R crown was wrested from him by fatgirl. fatgirl not only was/is at least as stupid, but he outposted him by a margin of about 5-1, so not even our grumpy little fungus even came close in the vote.
I will give him props here if what you say is actually how this plays out. You actually made me educate myself on CF and the accounts I have read are a fking disgrace.
Some here (well, Mari, lol) have tried to defend, at least in part, based on monetary grounds which is just the most ridiculous thing in the world.
For ANY U.S. citizen to lose any property for an issue in which they were never even indicted, let alone found guilty, is a GROSS miscarriage of justice.
So I give one full prop to DA and one potential prop to Holder if all this is true and binding.
on the abuses of civil forfeiture laws by the police.
The policy change will have NO effect on the police using state laws to seize and seek judicial forfeiture of contraband. In fact, one of the reasons given by Holder for the change is we now have laws in all 50 states permitting CFF, unlike the situation in the 1980s. The Philadelphia class action, for example, would not be affected.
The policy change will have NO effect on joint state and federal investigations.
The policy change will also have no effect on CFF by the feds – if the FBI believes the cash they found in your car is contraband, they can still seek CFF of the both the cash and your car. Or to use Jack’s example, if either the feds or local LE have probable cause to believe your kid is selling drugs out of your house, they can seize both the cash in your house and your house and seek judicial ff –local LE just can’t use federal law.
All it really does is prohibit state LE from making the stop on their own and then partnering with the feds to seek judicial ff under federal law and then split the proceeds. While the Post article claims 3 billion in assets have been seized this way, they have no statistics on how many of those seizures were wrongful. Is it 5%- 10%? Without that statistic, we can’t really tell how big a problem we have with abuses. It may discourage some quota stops by local LE but that is about it.
If you don't think civil FF is an incredibly useful LE tool, talk with the guys who invested with Bernie Madoff. The feds recovered way more than 3 billion this way. Take away civil FF and his wife, his sons, his employees the feeder funds and many others would still be holding that money
What you described is true except your overlooking the fact that many civil forfeitures done by local police were done under the Equitable Sharing program. This program allowed locals to bypass state requirements, which many require seized funds to go to the state General or educational budgets. Instead locals got to keep 80 of the proceeds and there were little restrictions as to how the locals used the assets.
Holder's changes are a huge step in the right direction. In my world, I would like to see all civil forfeiture ended unless it's accompanied by a criminal conviction under the law. Your support of this program overlooks that this program overwhelmingly affected ordinary people on a daily basis and if I recall correctly, most forfeitures that occur our highways are less that 5k. I hope you read the links I provided, but anyone can see that asset forfeiture at any level, state of federal, is a shakedown of American citizens. And you forget, no criminal conviction is required and that's the most offensive part.
The policy change will have NO effect on the police using state laws to seize and seek judicial forfeiture of contraband. In fact, one of the reasons given by Holder for the change is we now have laws in all 50 states permitting CFF, unlike the situation in the 1980s. The Philadelphia class action, for example, would not be affected.
The policy change will have NO effect on joint state and federal investigations.
The policy change will also have no effect on CFF by the feds – if the FBI believes the cash they found in your car is contraband, they can still seek CFF of the both the cash and your car. Or to use Jack’s example, if either the feds or local LE have probable cause to believe your kid is selling drugs out of your house, they can seize both the cash in your house and your house and seek judicial ff –local LE just can’t use federal law.
All it really does is prohibit state LE from making the stop on their own and then partnering with the feds to seek judicial ff under federal law and then split the proceeds. While the Post article claims 3 billion in assets have been seized this way, they have no statistics on how many of those seizures were wrongful. Is it 5%- 10%? Without that statistic, we can’t really tell how big a problem we have with abuses. It may discourage some quota stops by local LE but that is about it.
If you don't think civil FF is an incredibly useful LE tool, talk with the guys who invested with Bernie Madoff. The feds recovered way more than 3 billion this way. Take away civil FF and his wife, his sons, his employees the feeder funds and many others would still be holding that money.
but I further agree it is a HUGE step in the right direction, and our other conversation about what a POS Holder is aside, he deserves props for this step that he has taken.
-- Modified on 1/16/2015 10:42:15 PM
-- Modified on 1/16/2015 11:03:32 PM
You sound like the fucking racist! What does his and the President's race have to do with this thread about unlawful and unconstitutional forfeitures of the property of innocent people?
and I fully agree that both Holder and Obama are huge racists, but that doesn't change the fact that in this one instance, he did the right thing.
For the record, the forfeitures were "lawful", a huge miscarriage of justice, but lawful, and civil forfeitures are still lawful, but a lot of the motivation to abuse this law have been eliminated by this new change in it.
Your opinion, for what it is worth, is based on what facts? You are generally prolific on other matters. Care to expound on what makes them "huge racists"? Just because you "proclaim" it (as you normally do) doesn't make it true. Also to your way of thinking this is the only instance in which he did the right thing?
I'm sorry, but Holder can be legitimately called several things based upon your ideology, but racist is not one one them. He's offended people because he's pointed out the racial disparities in our criminal judicial system and has called the American people out in our ability to put our heads in the sand about race in this country. Many of us still don't accept that racism exists in this country. It's not the overt racism that many minority's faced decades ago, but more subtle and institutional
For the record, the forfeitures were "lawful", a huge miscarriage of justice, but lawful, and civil forfeitures are still lawful, but a lot of the motivation to abuse this law have been eliminated by this new change in it.
The only disparities with in the American CJS have to with capital. Capitalism is the foundation of this country's social structure, you are confusing reality with racism.
For the record, the forfeitures were "lawful", a huge miscarriage of justice, but lawful, and civil forfeitures are still lawful, but a lot of the motivation to abuse this law have been eliminated by this new change in it.
but racebaiters in my book.
Of course racism still exists in this country, but Holder and Obama, not to mention the likes of Sharpton and Jackson, are setting back racism years instead of trying to move forward from it.
Racism, or racebaiting, whichever the case may be is what got these guys into power, and what keeps them there. It's no wonder they look for racism under every rock, and claim to find it in places where it doesn't even exist.
Maybe I see things a bit more clearly because I am NOT white, and I don't suffer from that common malady that afflicts so many white people, especially libs known as "White Guilt" Having lived through real, overt, in your face racism, I know and recognize racism when I see it. I can also see when other people "of color" thrive on it and use it as a means to achieve power.
I wonder if your mind is going with age or were you always this stupid?
So the amount of race baiters that run the GOP party and conservative media is out of control.
Also let's take a look at the GOP and their supports who love to play race victims.
Then turn around and act like racists assholes themselves:
http://www.thenation.com/blog/194905/when-it-comes-gops-race-problem-scalise-just-sideshow
So Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson are not in office, but a lot of racists GOP clowns are in office and that is the real problem!
-- Modified on 1/17/2015 10:11:37 AM
and for the record, I am hardly a member of the GOP. Partisans are idiots, regardless of which side of the aisle they are on.
This was a general statement to the rest of the board who might have gotten the wrong idea that I was a Republican, you are still TSTTT.
Also most of your comments are mostly conservative sided.
So you saying, I am no political hack is fine.
The thing is your comments say something else!
-- Modified on 1/17/2015 11:11:29 AM
Remember the asshat R who interrupted Obama during his address to congress? He was instantly labeled a racist by many on the left. MSNBC went bonkers over it. What the guy did was immature and stupid, but racist?
Then you have Obama who stays in a racist church for 20 years, calls the racist preacher "the most influential male in his adult life" and routinely sides with blacks in conflicts with whites (Cambridge police, Trayvon , ferguson, etc etc etc) and yet they don't see that as racist. LOL.
Imagine if Rommey or McCain did what Obama did. do you think liberals like DA would be tripping over themselves to defend them? LOL
We know the answer to that.
Liberals only care about racism if it is coming from the mouths of Republicans. When it's their side, they just don't give a fk.
Another "old white guy" who has committed more racial gaffes than any Republican in modern history, but he gets a pass for his stupid, and racist remarks. Double standard indeed.
Senator Robert "KKK" Byrd.
When you think about it all the b.s. Libs were just saying about the 3rd highest R just because he gave a speech to a racist group...
But if you are a Dem you can be a LEADER in the KKK and get a pass! LOL!
I love how racists conservatives always want to use the same examples every time.
When they act racists themselves everyday on TV or radio.
We can now add some in congress too.
So I guess it's the white privilege mind set!
Should we believe that you are a "minority" simply because you say you are? Does this claim of minority status somehow give validity to your racist antiiblack rants.
Could you please point out one or two of them so we can have a discussion about them please?
I am fully in support of equal rights, having suffered through some very overt racism in my own life. What I don't believe in are "special rights" or race baiting for political gain.
In this case GA...you are delusional if you think either Holder or Obama are racist. And this highlights exactly why these two face the crap they face from a daily basis on the right. Any criticism of our society that involves race, they are immediately cast a racist. If Obama gets angry, he's the angry black man. It he criticizes the cop the stops a black homeowner from going into his own home, he's anti law enforce and a fascist. GA, while I disagree with most of your politics, I believ you not be be a rabid partisan. In this case, I believe, you have bought into the far right narrative hook, line, and sinker.
There is plenty you can criticize Holder and Obama about, the NSA scandals, over use of the espionage act to criminally prosecute whistleblowers and many others. But you cannot objectively believe or prove that either are racists. And I think you know it.
For the record, the forfeitures were "lawful", a huge miscarriage of justice, but lawful, and civil forfeitures are still lawful, but a lot of the motivation to abuse this law have been eliminated by this new change in it.
What "non racist" attends a church run by a devout racist for 20 years and PRAISES him on numerous occasions?
If a person disagrees with Obama on anything that person is the one immediately branded a racist. Don't like Obama Care, RACIST, Don't like amnesty RACIST, Point out Reverend Wright and his decades of hate speech, RACIST.
I have a baseline question for you DA, Do you consider Al Sharpton, and or Jesse Jackson racists?
So to answer your question, fighting for racial justice is not being racist.
We all know this country still has a problem with race today, even with making some progress.
The people that always like to throw out Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson, miss that point.
Also no other White President has been singled out, on the race issue as much as this President from day one.
I will just say it, some people in this country still hate the fact we have a black President and Attorney General.
If you don't believe me, just look at Fox Fake News or conservative media and the race baiting they do all day.
We cannot forget the tea party congress or some people on TER either!
I have a baseline question for you DA, Do you consider Al Sharpton, and or Jesse Jackson racists?
I will make it easy for you, do you feel generally positive or negative towards these two individuals?
I don't have a problem with either one of them.
So do they, do it right all the time?
Well I would have to say no, but they do have some valid points too!
Just like I already explain, in my last comment.
It's a difference between being racists and fighting for racial justice.
but at least you are consistent, and you did answer the question
I doubt that anyone else here would admit out loud that they support either Jackson or Sharpton as anyone not blinded by hatred or partisanship knows that neither Jackson or Sharpton has fought for anything but their own agenda for decades.
Since you went back to being a asshole.
I am not running or hiding from any clown on here.
We disagree and I don't care either.
This is my opinion and I stand by it!
I doubt that anyone else here would admit out loud that they support either Jackson or Sharpton as anyone not blinded by hatred or partisanship knows that neither Jackson or Sharpton has fought for anything but their own agenda for decades.
That would imply that at some point I "stopped" being an asshole, and that simply is not true.
and I gave you credit for openly admitting that you support two of the biggest race baiters in this country that have done more to set back race relations in this country than the fucking KKK. Not many others here on this board would do so. Most of your fellow libs run from that pair of crooks faster than Repubs run from the likes of Todd Akin.
I think you rather act like a fool, than listen to my points of view.
So you are a con artist, but try to play the victim at the same time.
This is why you are a clown and a asshole.
and I gave you credit for openly admitting that you support two of the biggest race baiters in this country that have done more to set back race relations in this country than the fucking KKK. Not many others here on this board would do so. Most of your fellow libs run from that pair of crooks faster than Repubs run from the likes of Todd Akin.
Why do you think this is a good idea?