..."enlightened" than most other Catholics. They put an emphasis on education, supporting colleges such as Georgetown, Fordham, Boston College, Marquette and the Loyolas.
I recently read an interesting book: "Would You Baptize an Extraterrestrial?" by Brother Guy Consolmagno who has a Ph.D in planetary sciences and became a Jesuit when he was 40. He is the astronomer at the Vatican Observatory and curator of the Vatican meteorite collection. (The Vatican has an observatory and a meteorite collection?)
The Jesuits are an interesting bunch. One of my friends is an ex-Jezzy and like most with that background, is very successful and accomplished.
this guy is the first remotely human to serve as Pope. Why is it when I read this my first thought was, "They're going to kill him." The Curia, that is. He seems to be an existential threat to their grip on power. I hope he has a food taster.
..."enlightened" than most other Catholics. They put an emphasis on education, supporting colleges such as Georgetown, Fordham, Boston College, Marquette and the Loyolas.
I recently read an interesting book: "Would You Baptize an Extraterrestrial?" by Brother Guy Consolmagno who has a Ph.D in planetary sciences and became a Jesuit when he was 40. He is the astronomer at the Vatican Observatory and curator of the Vatican meteorite collection. (The Vatican has an observatory and a meteorite collection?)
The Jesuits are an interesting bunch. One of my friends is an ex-Jezzy and like most with that background, is very successful and accomplished.
There are many other branches of the catholic church that also place a lot of emphasis on eductation.
There are too many schools too count founded and run by nuns, Marymount - a bevy of schools, being just one.
Fifty years ago, if you saw a well educated woman or minority, especially of a lower income group, the odds were hugely disproptorional that they were catholic educatted, even if they were not catholic. I have a friend who is a 75 year old black pharmacists from Wisconsin who got his entire education in Catholic school, even though is family was Baptist. He is far, far from alone.
There is no demographic as widely educated in the world as nuns and priests, and not just in theology. Both groups have scores of people with Ph.D.s in education, arts, history, nursing, and scores of other non-religious studies. I have a priest friend in England (of Irish descentt) who as graduate degrees in both phsycology and computers. (He teaches computers at a school)
There is a book by a ex-priest who describes the seminary. It was more iintellectually demanding than any Ivy league school. Many people speak multiple languages. There are not classes in "Elvis's impact on western lit.
but even I will admit, although they believe in some really stupid shit, some if not most of the best schools in this country are either Catholic or some other religious based schools.
and yes, I constantly scratch my head over that little paradox, but it does make it a little bit easier for me to hold my nose when voting as I tend to agree on the larger matters with the same religious pukes I despise where it comes to social issues.
Note to phil, notice I made no reference to you bending over backwards to defend Christians. your last explanation satisfied me about your motivations. I am sure that has kept you up at nights worrying about my opinion of you. lol
I will still state, just so you know I am not backpedaling from my beliefs, that it absolutely amazes me that otherwise very intelligent and highly educated people can live their lives according to a two thousand year old fairy tale. How such otherwise smart people believe in such stupid shit is beyond me.
Same stupid fairy tale, different name.
At least Santa gives tangible presents to people rather than a bunch of false promises and a load of bull shit that Jesus freaks and other dumb ass religious pukes claim.
And it has nothing to do with religion. As private schools they can reject kids who don't want to learn and are undisciplined. Public schools must take everyone and also are at the mercy of some lousy teachers who are protected by public employee unions.
atheists kids are not admitted to religion based schools. the public schools get them so they can do their anti-religious pantshitting there. so to say "religion has nothing to do with it" is not accurate at all.
you're right however when it comes to discipline, I would include RESPECT.
sure, public schools do have some lousy teachers who are protected by unions but they also have to put up with undisiplined, disrespectful rug rats raised by undisciplined, disrespectful adult aged children.
-- Modified on 12/23/2014 9:11:51 AM
These religious schools still worship the all mighty dollar and rich atheists who want their kids to get the best education will still suck it up, pay the piper and get their kids into that first rate Catholic school, despite them thinking that religion is stupid.
I'd love to hear that conversation between the kid and the "rational atheist" parent . lmao.
there are waiting lists a mile long to get into these schools. the almighty dollar does'nt have much to do with it..everyone pays and if the kid doesn't toe the line, they're out
Do you think that rich people are limited to just the cost of tuition where it comes to getting their kids into the best schools?
and the conversation between parent and kid would be somthing like this. "I don't care what kind of stupid fairy tales your teachers believe in, this is the best education that money can buy, and you better damn sure make the most of it"
Please don't try to feed my the bullshit that the kids of agnostic/atheists are less likely to toe the line than the kids of religious pukes. That would be just plain dumb and would reinforce just how narrow minded religious people are.
interesting suggested idalouge. You do realize that all day, everyday, that child will be subjected to "the stupid fairy tales" by their classmates and faculity as well? But that's not the only conversation that needs to take place. Most schools, (in addition to the almighty dollar, which BTW, by virtue of a waiting list, the value of which is diminished) require a declaration of faith, and many require a letter of recommendation from a pastor, priest, or someone connected to the church the lying atheist claims to be associated with.
Real hard to imagine a pantshitting athieist, who breaks out in hives when they are "subjected" to a cross placed in the public square, or funnier still, on a distant hillside, the same folks that are so afraid of the phrase, "under God" being heard by their kids that they scream until it gets removed from public recital, subjecting their children to 12 years of evil indoctrination.
Hard to imagine, but then again, it's hard to imagine someone being so "offended" by the presence of a tiny cross in the Los Angeles City logo that they sue for it's removal.
Now THATS openminded!
For those easily offended, shut your eyes:
If an atheist really wanted his kid to go to a religious school -- which is kind of ridiculous on the face of it but I suppose not impossible -- don't you think they'd keep mum about being an atheist?
Sheesh, where to you come up with these arguments?
As for you last sentence, I agree.
Just because an atheist "could" (and yes, it would be very ridiculous, not to mention hypocritical) lie to get their kid in school. It would have to be quite the story though! That said, it does not in anyway support your statement that the quaility of education has NOTHING to do with religion.
Sheesh, where did you come up with that arguement? lol
If you think religion itself has anything to do with the quality of the education, your brain is smaller than your dick. Nothing new here.
i understand why you'd think religion has nothing to do with the quality of education, but your conclusions just might be self-serving. Fact is, it forms the basis of a school. Parents are much more involved. Kids are MUCH better behaved.
Coinkidink?
I don't think so
But facts are facts. Of course religion is there, but it has nothing to do with why the education is superior. What's so hard to get about that?
It is because they are private, so they can be more selective in admissions and stricter in enforcing discipline. Also, they are not bound by cookie-cutter standards imposed by local and state governments. And they don't have to keep lousy teachers because of having to kowtow to a union.
Please note that none of the above -- repeat none -- has anything to do with their religious affiliation.
What makes me think I just wasted my time?
Religious schools are spun off of religious institutions, ie, churches.
They founded on that basis and staffed by people whose lives have their foundation in their faith.
To say that religion has nothing to do with their results is frankly absurd!
Btw, "happy holidays!"
Lol
with being a superior teacher nor does staffing a school with “people whose lives have their foundation in their faith” create a better school environment for learning.
The arguments that he made are applicable to all private schools. If you really want to critique his position, it should be easy – just show that religious schools do better than private non-religious schools. Unless and until you can show that, his premise is certainly defensible and frankly carries the day against your argument.
The ultimate correct answer – we just don’t know. There are inadequate peer review studies to tell us and they can’t even agree as to whether to correct for selection bias and other factors. Even worse, both of you may have your premise wrong. Some studies dispute that private schools have better results than public ones, at least in math
http://www.hks.harvard.edu/pepg/PDF/Papers/PEPG06-02-PetersonLlaudet.pdf
But to your point, I would argue that the burden of proof is on the one making the assertion. Would'nt you agree?
"just show that religious schools do better than private non-religious schools. Unless and until you can show that, his premise is certainly defensible and frankly carries the day against your argument."
I know of no studies that make the case however so you, and Nick could well be right. Maybe its just my bias
BY NAPP NAZWORTH, CHRISTIAN POST REPORTER
April 10, 2013|8:17 am
Private religious schools perform better than public schools, and public charter schools performed no better than regular public schools, according to a new study by William Jeynes, professor of education at California State University at Long Beach and senior fellow at the Witherspoon Institute at Princeton.
Jeynes spoke Monday with The Christian Post about the study. He found that religious, mostly Christian, school students were a full year ahead of students who attend public and charter schools.
The results of his research were recently published in vol. 87, issue 3 of the Peabody Journal of Education in an article titled, "A Meta-Analysis on the Effects and Contributions of Public, Public Charter, and Religious Schools on Student Outcomes," and were presented last month in a speech for Notre Dame University faculty.
Jeynes used a research method called a "meta-analysis," which utilizes very large data sets by combining the data from many different studies. Most of the studies used test scores to measure student performance, but there were some other measures, such as grade point average and teacher ratings, as well.
The research uses four different models to show how the outcomes might change using different control variables. Some might argue, for instance, that students at religious schools do better because their parents are more involved in their education, not because the schools are better. Jeynes, therefore, controlled for this "selection effect." Religious schools still perform better, though, even when controlling for parental involvement.
Religious school principals, though, have told Jeynes that they believe parental involvement should not be controlled for because parental involvement is something that is highly emphasized at religious schools. Indeed, some religious schools require parents to sign a consent acknowledging the involvement that is expected of them.
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Jeynes controlled for other variables as well, such as socioeconomic status, gender and race. When all the control variables are factored in, the study found that students at religious schools still have a seven to eight month advantage over students at public and charter schools.
Jeynes found that there were several reasons that religious schools do better. At religious schools, the students are encouraged to take difficult courses much more frequently and they have a "can do attitude," Jeynes explained, epitomized by the saying, "God doesn't make junk." Religious schools place higher expectations upon their students and send the message that they have the ability to go to college.
Jeynes also found a greater reduction in the class and race based "achievement gaps." Poor students and black and Latino students perform worse, on average, than students from middle-income, or higher, families, and white and Asian students. This achievement gap is lower in religious schools.
Some other factors that are more difficult to measure may also be at work, Jeynes added. Some argue, for instance, that the "school culture" or "social capital" at religious schools contribute to their better performance. There is respect shown for teachers and fellow students, and more racial harmony, for instance, as part of the culture of many religious schools.
Additionally, Jeynes found that the differences on behavioral measures were even greater than the academic differences. Students at religious schools were less likely, for instance, to get suspended, get into fights, do drugs, and get involved in bullying. These students also showed more respect for teachers.
Once difference that some, such as Jeynes, believe is an advantage for public schools is that public school teachers are more apt to demonstrate more flexibility with students expressing their own opinions.
"Faith-based schools are more likely to view teachers as the one who imparts truth, whereas public schools are more likely to view the teacher as facilitator," Jeynes said. "I'm in favor of classroom flexibility ... [but] classroom flexibility is associated with somewhat lower academic achievement."
Jeynes is not sure why that is, but hypothesizes that "in an environment in which opinions are encouraged ... students might be allowed to maintain opinions that are inaccurate."
Jeynes did not look at homeschooled students for this study, but has studied them in the past. His previous studies have shown that homeschooled students do even better than religious school students. Homeschooled students have several advantages over public and religious schools.
Students in general do better with high parental involvement and small class sizes. Homeschools, obviously, have the highest level of parental involvement and the smallest class sizes. Also, in a traditional school classroom, teachers may have to move on to a different topic before not all of their students have mastered the topic. In a homeschool, the parent/teacher can stick with a skill or topic until the student has mastered it, then move on. That is a "huge advantage," Jeynes said.
So glad some things never change. No surprise you were unable to understand the subtlety of my point. But I won't waste my time trying to explain it again.
-- Modified on 12/28/2014 8:16:22 PM
Coinkidink?
I don't think so.
1. Percentage - wise, Parents of students in private schools are much more involved with their children's education than public school parents.
2. You would be hard pressed to find a Nun math teacher who isn't proficient at Science and English .
With public schools it would be easy to find many teachers who have difficulty reading , mainly for the reason you stated, No accountability,Teacher Union rules.
3. Private school children are disciplined in house when they do wrong.
The rate of suspensions and expulsions for disruptive students are miniscule compared to public schools.
Of course part of it also has to do with money, these Catholic schools have huge budgets to work with compared to their public counterparts and no one is more wasteful with the resources that they do have than government. So that does explain a lot of it.
I guess it is just one of the many things that the private sector does better than government. Of course I am a product of public school, so what does that say about me? Before you answer, that was a rhetorical question, so please STFU before you even start. lol
Concord De La Salle high school. I have no idea on how they do educationally, but that football program is something else. I've never seen anyone, including colleges, run the veer better than De La Salle, and that's a difficult offense to run. They basically play smash mouth football. You know what they are going to do, but you can't stop it. I believe they ended the year as the number 1 high school football team in the country. And if not them, it was Bishop Gorman out of Las Vegas, another Catholic high school.
Saint, you fucking fucker! LOL!
...winner of four straight State championships in basketball.
It's a football and basketball factory. You can add a few other sports as well. They do tend to send their football talent to USC.
For you and in Jeopardy form, "the #1 rated high school QB in the country". You get bonus points for the high school, his university commitment, and one other interesting fact about the young man.
Inicky....still staying within the framework of the subject.
The results speak for themselves when 90% of kids graduating from Catholic high schools attend 4 year universities, while only 70% of public school kids graduate high school. I don't want to completely attack public schools, because there are those that are in affluent communities that have the local resources to perform better than their public school peers. But at the end of the day, public schools are generally not performing. Do you throw more money at the unions? Do we allow school choice? Liberals want the former, not the latter. Obama has even gone on record saying religious based schools promote division and resentment.
Funny thing is, Catholic schools are not just for Catholics anymore. You would be surprised at the diversity of these schools. And if you're a kid with exceptional athletic talent, you'll find a way to the better athletic programs that will give you a chance at a D1 or D2 scholarship. Some of these facilities and coaching staffs at Catholic high schools rival some colleges.
- the bus - while most others used a private car service.
BPS I bought you this ornament . Hang it high in a tree where it belongs .
BPS I bought you this ornament . Hang it high in a tree where it belongs .
