... or at least some form of referendum on the ACA.
I think I've said this before?
I was quite shocked to hear Chuck Schumer be so critical of Ocare last week but then I read the comments made by Dem Tom Harkin, one of the co-authors of the ACA, I damn near soiled my big boy panties:
“We had the power to do it in a way that would have simplified healthcare, made it more efficient and made it less costly, and we didn’t do it, So I look back and say we should have either done it the correct way or not done anything at all.
WOW! When the writers of the law say they shouldn't have done it in retrospect and admitted it was written to deceive the voting public, why would ANYONE (other than people getting cheap/free HC at taxpayers expense) think Ocare was a good idea?
This is really about keeping power of the congress.
So when you don't stand up for yourself or your actions.
Then people will see you as weak and this is the real problem with some Democrats.
The longer this law is on the books people will continue to want it!
In fact, I don’t want to be the one who tells you, bc I know how much you enjoy Little Sizzlers in the morning.
Now here is another revelation for you. Laws are like sausages, Jack. Since the enactment of the very first law by Congress, someone always says – “we could have made it better.” Yes, law making by a collective body is just like making sausages – you really don’t want to know what they put in there, why, and what they left out. Sometimes we end up with the Bridge to Nowhere; sometimes we include provisions in the Affordable Care Act that were not every one’s first choice.
So let’s dial your “WOW” down to the appropriate response to this article …zzzzz
I'd suggest you jump ship while you still can.
I've never heard of law that forced people to watch how sausage was made, while forcing that very same sausage down the throats of the citizens of the United States of America.
You might be a fan of mandates, but the majority of Americans are not
He specifically mentioned "cost" Mari, not the grandiose promises congress makes to the peeps or the horse trading that goes in to get votes for passage, etc.
And libs can no longer use the "right just trashes the law and that is why it is not popular" meme. It is now LIBS trashing it, absolutely unheard of prior to the election.
And again when you realize it is coming from people like Harkin who wrote it, "wow" is the perfect word for it. Lol.
-- Modified on 12/4/2014 8:20:59 PM
They should have allowed those in the individual market the ability to sign up with Medicare, and deal with the subsidy issue via the Earned Income Tax Credit. You could've written the law on a cocktail napkin.
“We had the power to do it in a way that would have simplified healthcare, made it more efficient and made it less costly, and we didn’t do it, So I look back and say we should have either done it the correct way or not done anything at all.
WOW! When the writers of the law say they shouldn't have done it in retrospect and admitted it was written to deceive the voting public, why would ANYONE (other than people getting cheap/free HC at taxpayers expense) think Ocare was a good idea?
Especially when the real intent behind Obamacare was to create yet another huge government bureaucracy and have the Federal Government ultimately take over another 15% of the economy, getting us that much closer to true socialism.
I still find it almost amusing that the American people are gullible enough to believe that you could simultaneously create this huge government bureaucracy, add millions of new people to the insurance rolls, allow for every preexisting condition, AND, get this, drum roll please, do all of this and reduce the price at the same time. PT Barnum was right about us.
add Gruber to PT Barnum's beliefs!
I still find it almost amusing that the American people are gullible enough to believe that you could simultaneously create this huge government bureaucracy, add millions of new people to the insurance rolls, allow for every preexisting condition, AND, get this, drum roll please, do all of this and reduce the price at the same time. PT Barnum was right about us.
Is there something you two should be telling the rest of us??? lol
I guess the band is back together again. Of course with fatgirl and Hadji running their mouths nonstop with foolishness, I guess it would take a return of benlanger or DaffyDuck to make this place any worse than it's been the last week or two. Or maybe the return of the original FatBoy
Have you ever heard of Lawrence O'Donnell rant on this? He said it just should have been sold as "Medicare for all" from day one and he makes a great point that there would have been tens of millions of built in "salesman" for the law (the elderly) that would have made the transition a piece of cake
I completely agree! If Obama had gone whole hog on universal coverage for all, the ACA would be more popular than it is right now. I cannot count the number of times this administration has gone out of its way to shoot itself in the foot. The rollout of the ACA program was an unmitigated disaster. I really think "moles " in the administration allied with the Clinton's failed healthcare plan had a big part to play in this disasterous rollout.
-- Modified on 12/5/2014 9:10:22 AM
It has been in the news the last few weeks, from Gruber to them cooking the books on enrollment to people using their HC less because it is too costly, etc etc etc.
This law is deeply and critically flawed but it made R's get off there ass and they will have to put something on paper with details to keep the little that is good and add all the important stuff left out from day one.
A true hybrid of ideas is needed. That will only occur if both parties will dare to put country first. You optimistic about that? lol
... or at least some form of referendum on the ACA.
I think I've said this before?
So after we get a look at the GOP having power in congress.
Also the laws they will try and pass.
The mid term elections will be long forgotten and power will shift again!
-- Modified on 12/4/2014 9:46:37 PM
along with all the other obama/dem fuck-ups
You're Welcome 96 times
Yeah I know and you know I know ....ha ha ha ha
2016 = GOP WH, Senate and House
Is it your comprehension
does a person get shit canned, for a while, for posting to a closed thread?
just asking
2016 = GOP WH, Senate and House
running away from obama on this and many other issues/policies.
Thank you
The problem is that Obama tried to get the Republicans to go along with him on health care. Obama bent over backwards to try to form a bi-partisan consensus. So Obama kept watering down HCR, until we got the monstrosity we've got now. The Dems spent a fucking year and a half on HCR, and still didn't get a single Republican vote.
They should have just lowered the sign up age for Medicare/Medicaid to 0 and fucking be done with it. Then they could have focused on more pressing issues like prosecuting Wall Street, raising the minimum wage, passing the Employee Free Choice Act and ending free trade. The Dems missed a once in a life time opportunity. The Democrats should have given us a new New Deal, but instead Obama and the Dems stupidly tried to make everyone happy, Republicans, Wall Street, the 1 percenters, and everyone else that those people had fucked over. It would be like trying to get the Klan and Al Sharpton together and asking, "can't we all be friends?"
Willy, ya gotta give up this nonsense about Obama bending over backwards to get R votes. He would have had the two squishy Maine ladies who were dying to vote for it but he refused to have any sort of Tort reform because he is in the back pocket of the trial attorneys.
Had he added that, along with purchasing across state lines, he would have gotten some 10-12 votes in the House and 4-5 in the senate in moderate/left districts/states and that would have given him the political cover he so desperately needs right now.
They wrote the bill to stick it up the R's ass as they thought it would be a political winner and the could bask in the limelight without having to share any of the credit with R's. They lost. BIG TME.
And it is now an albatross around the D's neck.
Why would the Dems pass tort reform to pass HCR? That's like asking Mitch McConnell to punch himself in the face in order to get a couple votes. This at a time when the Dems had a supermajority in each chamber? The Dems have the GOP an equal seat at the table for HCR, when they didn't have an equal number of seats in either body of Congress. That is bending over fucking backwards to win their vote. The GOP didn't vote for them because they decided election night that they would obstruct every-fucking-thing the Dems were doing. The Dems passed the Heritage Foundation's HCR proposal, and this is the shit we got. We should have passed a public option or single payer. The Dems took that off the table right out of the gate, again to win Republican votes. They got none.
Or at least not the dumbest.
Remember when I first nominated you for SPOTY, back before there even was a SPOTY competition? Well, in spite of some of your ridiculous, socialist views. You would barely make Top ten SPOTY on this board, even if you had been here the whole time.
I am glad to see that you were able to pull that knife out of your back, but it also appears that I will still be in need of that special brick that I reserve for you.
I hope you don't mind that you have a couple of "left wing nut jobs" that you will likely be ashamed to have on "your team" as Hadji and bigfatgirl are both too dumb for words, and even you will be ashamed to have them on the same side of an issue with you.
Remember when I first nominated you for SPOTY, back before there even was a SPOTY competition? Well, in spite of some of your ridiculous, socialist views. You would barely make Top ten SPOTY on this board, even if you had been here the whole time.
I am glad to see that you were able to pull that knife out of your back, but it also appears that I will still be in need of that special brick that I reserve for you.
I hope you don't mind that you have a couple of "left wing nut jobs" that you will likely be ashamed to have on "your team" as Hadji and bigfatgirl are both too dumb for words, and even you will be ashamed to have them on the same side of an issue with you.
My back has been knife free for quite a while. I'm just usually too busy these days to post here. My side gig is beginning to take off, and I'm spending more hours in the office lately.
I haven't been following this board much lately, but from what I've seen, it looks like my good buddy Buggy has been making quite the ass out of himself. I was hoping he'd calm down a bit after the election, but I guess not. Buggy's a good guy, but jumping jesus on a pogo stick, the man needs to smoke a little reefer.
Honestly, as dumb and outlandish as I think many of your positions are, you are a joy to have around compared to these latest trolls.
Of course I say that now, You now within a few posts I will once again be breaking out my brick for you. lol
As for Buggy, I think after a bit being back here even you might agree that he is just responding in kind
Of course I say that now, You now within a few posts I will once again be breaking out my brick for you. lol
As for Buggy, I think after a bit being back here even you might agree that he is just responding in kind
You're welcome 96 times
Especially when you find yourself in Phoenix. lol
heard that three piles of bear shit was found in LA about 9 months ago.
Thank you
2014 = 59 = 13 in a ro
We have hundreds of piles of "Bear Shit" here just in the last couple of months. I wish a certain bear would just go shit in the woods instead of all over this board. They do have some nice woods in the Phoenix area, maybe Flagstaff would be a more suitable place for him?
good to see your commie ass back here!
glad your'e biz is taking off, now you can join the real world of work and business like the rest of us!
Exactly what did Obama offer the Republicans to get them to go along? The only thing you are pointing to here is the Democrats did not push single payer. They did not do that in order to get Republican votes. They did it to get enough moderate Democrats to vote for it so it would pass.
No, the Dems shoved this down the throats of Republicans and made several promises to moderate Democrats that would later be broken. (and those moderate Democrats are now gone for accepting the political bribes.)
There were plenty of things the Democrats could have offered up that would have garnered up to maybe one-third of the Republicans. Had they done that there would be almost no attempts to repeal it and there would also be cooperation to repair it. This was the way all other huge social change programs have been introduced (Social Security, Medicare, etc). OBAMACARE BROKE THE MOLD.
Really? I would have thought that passing the very conservative Heritage Foundation's proposal for HCR would have been enough to get some votes.
Don't you remember the Gang of 6? Don't you remember how the Dems allowed Chuck Grassley to control nearly the entire damn process? Don't you remember the prominent position that the Dems allowed Tom Coburn to have?
The amount of bending over backwards the Dems did to compromise with the GOP should have left every Democrat seeking immediate medical care from a chiropractor. The Dems bent over backwards so fucking much, that it was like watching Cirque du Soleil. The only thing they didn't do and bring Obama down to Capitol Hill and have him give each Republican in Congress a BBBJ, while gargling the words "make me an Oreo".
How many times did Obama say after passage he would work with ANYONE to fix it? WHO has he worked with with? NO ONE WILLY. He unilaterally made changes without even Dems being involved.
Numerous bills to fix Ocare with bipartisan support on Reid dust collecting dust.
Stop with the completely discredited Ocare talking points. Christ even Dems wanted to put back in the Keep Your Doctor provision and Obama wouldn't let it come up for a vote!
Obama has given a lot of organizations exclusions from the law, if they could provide health care coverage on their own. For instance, the state of Vermont is pretty much excluded from HCR because the entire state passed single payer.
Obama was pretty clear that he's work with anyone, so long as they had the same goals of universal coverage and affordability. I think it's neat-o that you forgot that caveat.
Making up shit now Willy? The CBO said there will be 31 million uninsured by 2024. Yeah, real universal. Affordable? A majority of the UNINSURED are against Ocare and the number # 1 reason they oppose it? It cost too damn much.
So now that your talking points have been destroyed again...can you point to a group that Obama has worked with to make the law better since it passed?
Tick, tock, tick, tock...
1) The Democrats did not pass the Heritage Foundation plan. The only similarity is they both included a mandate. Similarity ends there.
2) Gang of 6 member Grassley controlled the process? Why then are there a gazillion media reports outlining his frustration? They let him have one amendment that garnered media attention, then tried to own it themselves and it backfired. You really expect people to believe the iron fist of Harry Reid relinquished any real power.
3) Tom Coburn? You have him confused with another Obama debacle. Coburn was a gang member of the debt negotiations, not ACA.
4) There was no bending over backwards. All the Republicans were allowed to do was braid and paint the fringe around the edges. Even if there seemed to be any backward bending, it did not result in any substantial changes or additions to the final bill.
5) My points regarding the correct process for enacting long standing and acceptable social change remain.