here ya go...
As for the "cheap shot" I was saying I wasn't going to take your bait...I was going to let it drop, but apparently that's not what you want so I'll reply...look you got what you wanted...happy? *smirk*
You want my point in simple straight forward terms?
here's my point:
How can you be sure you love your SP? (You mention finding her online, you mention how good your first appointment was, you mention subsequent appointments, you mention some are without sex...have you paid for all of these? If so how do you convince yourself she feels the same as you when she is recieving compensation for her time with you? Even if you have spent time with her without the fee is it everytime? Since you referred to the time you spend together sexual or not as sessions, and mention paying someone to get to know them I would say the answer is "no"...just guessing though.
The ladies in this business, if they are very good at it, are supposed to be everything you are looking for, that's the point, that's the fantasy they sell...and anyone can be perfect an hour, or two or twelve or even a week at a time...so again how can you be sure?)
How can you be sure this isn't another rebound type situation (like you mentioned about your second wife)?
How can you be sure that the feelings for your SP aren't influenced by your current relationship?
My point was and is: that you talk a lot about what you want, and that this woman is what you want, that you offer genuine feelings and a future, but you also seem to be saying you have had three bad marriages, one a rebound, two to ladies 10 and 12 years younger than yourself...and you you write "(sic)" after you talk of love in regards to your current SO...
Now, you are in love with a lady you pay to spend time with you, certain she loves you too, that is 20 years your junior, that is more than a rebound but overlapping another relationship..and you seem to want her in your life at all costs, as you think the chance at happiness worth it...
But what if you're wrong?
What if she doesn't love you?
What if you don't love her?
I caught your mention of wanting it all in one package...but what I didn't catch was when you are free to have that one package offer...
If you are leaving your current wife for this woman...what happens if she isn't the one?
If your SP does feel the same for you...but when the stark realities set in when it becomes a real relationship and not paid for time where you and your wants are the focus comes into play, you discover it wasn't love but maybe just not being with your wife, or maybe liking it being all about you as sessions tend to be? What then? What happens to your SP? What happens to you? What happens to her children? what happens to yours?
I don't expect you to answer any of these questions...I am simply throwing them out there for you to maybe think about.
As for ladies in this profession being the other woman an hour at a time...I disagree, the clients are the other men...even if the ladies are single...it is a difference of balance and control...a mistress awaits when the man in her life will give her time and attention...clients wait for when the ladies will give them time and attention. *smirk*
A provider is not the "other woman" an hour at a time or otherwise...because it isn't that the provider desires time with the client...it is that the client desires time with the provider.
I am sorry that you thought my post judgemental...I was simply trying to make the point that other people besides you are involved in what you want, and that thinking of how what you want effects them is a surer sign of love than just saying what you want. For all your talk of past wives, current wife and love interest, you say very little about how your wants will effect anyone besides yourself...perhaps oddest is, even for all your talk of how this will make you happy you don't seem to consider how any of this will effect you if she isn't the one.
As for your questions about me...
Single, no "little wifey" at home, no disposable or indisposable income taken from anyone, and the only thing that loses face time from me is my dog, if I am not home. No, I am not a hobbyist, exactly, as i have never made an appointment with a lady for a session.
As for your soul...I have no real interest in your soul...I don't know if it is wretched or not...and I don't know if it nedds saving or not, that's for you to decide.
Ok, I think that covers your questions...hope it made ya happy to push for a reply.
-- Modified on 8/2/2006 6:33:09 PM
LG
I am in love with my SP. I follow this board and I know this isn't a novel situation. I also know yo like a history.
I am a professional in my fifties, married for the third time, not a hobbyist.
I was first married in my early twenties to a woman who develped her frigidity on our wedding night (I think a response to her offering up her virginity before the big day coupled with her Catholic upbringing or maybe she just didn't like me!) In any case it went on for seven miserable years without my seeking comfort outside the realtionship. After one date (her request) and one otherwise unremarkable fuck she was pregnant. We reunited had another child becasue I figured I was going to be there for eighteen years anyway. So it lasted until six years after the first child. I can't stand to be in the same room with her. I have mended my realtionship with my kids who are now adults.
My second was was ten years younger. The best sex of my life, before or since. virtually everyday that we knew each other for almost two years. She came with three young kids. It lasted one year to the date of our marriage. Clearly a rebound thing. I was from Venus, and she was from an unnamed solar system at the edge of the universe. I have fond memories of her.
My current spouse is a vry sweet and attractive woman whom I met wehn she was in her early twenties. She is more than a dozen years my junior. We were together for 7-8 years befoe we married and we have a child in elementary school. Our physical relationship was good at the start and cooled with time and frosted with pregnancy. I began seeking comfort elsewhere, mostly massage places, sometimes the net, sometimes the street. Avoided mistresses/girlfriends except one time in a far away enough location to keep it sporadic.
Several months ago, I met my SP via the net. First experience was very good, as were subsequent times. She gets fabulous reviews. I am taken with this woman who is twenty years younger. I see her frequently, many times without sex. In fact, I'm less interested in her as a sex object. I've expressed my feelings to her. She is an excellent SP: boundaries, rules, all the right things, but I think she has similar feelings for me. I won't know until she sleeps in my bed everynight.
I will acknowledge that I am self centered. Life is short and I want to be happy. She is the person I've been looking for and spending the rest of my life with her is my goal.
Well, 4yrluv,
Your posting made me very, very curious, on so many levels. First off, is your alias a reflection of the anthropologist Helen Fisher's theory that a love story runs its course in four years? Or is it that Yardbirds tune? Oops, I'm really dating myself here 
Seriously though, I'm not quite sure what you might be searching for in terms of an answer. You admit that you are self-centered. To that, however, I would add that you clearly seem interested in assuming responsibilities for other people. MANY other people. All these children, some yours, some not, weaving in and out of your life. And, with the risk of sounding crass - the women seem to be included in that youngish crowd as well.
You see, I am very interested in your desire to "adopt" these women, their problems and taking care of them. Does anyone have a job on par with you, an intellect on par with you, or social standing on par with you? Or do they all come to feed off the proverbial trough that you may be offering them?
Another issue that may be possible is that in every one of these dyads that came and went, there was an element of "complementary dysfunction." They needed to be taken care of and you needed to take care of them...in order to feel something. What is that something? In the moment of taking care of someone, what is it you feel? Is that the time when you really come alive and are connected to yourself? Is it a rush of well-being when someone else puts her life in your hands? Is it a trust issue? Or is it that well-worn cliché...control?
As to if you should carry on with your SP, well, I think the writing's on the wall. Doesn't matter one whit what I say, really. I think you'll make it so attractive to her that she will end up in "your" bed - and then you'll know...if she really is the person you've been looking to spend the rest of your life with.
Do I think she is - my gut feeling is that she's not. She may be the most wonderful person on the planet; however, I don't think anyone will ever be able to fulfill your dream of 'the right woman.' But as you say, "life is short" and you want to be "happy." Stick out whatever carrot you can afford and see if she bites. Just remember that a majority of women in their 30s do want children, so you might want to prepare for another potential member to join the happy clan in the not too distant future.
From an unnamed solar system too
the Love Goddess
LG
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. In no specific order:
The Yardbirds. I like the song, it made a good handle. Now we're both dated.
I'm not sure of the answer I'm seeking, but I'd like to continue the dialogue. Are you in the middle of the country? See private clients from the eferral source?
You're right, there is a bit of the white knight, but only with #2. )I am in a nuturing profession) She was looking for rescue, and I thought I could do it and get "my kids" back in the process. I've learned that lesson. For those who hobby because the sex at home isn't good, #2 was the best, probably still is. It's obvioualy not enough, hence having your SO and your SP. I don't want that. I want it all in one package.
AS to their age, #1 was my age, and the next two younger. I'm no longer trolling in the 20's pond and after that does the age difference make a difference. Most would say I'm a young 5o something.
#1 was my second girlfriend,ever and one of my first sexual experiences. I was too young, stupid, not knowing what I wanted or who I was signing up with-Obviously.
#2, It was the rescue, the rebound, and mythical sex. Uneducated, but streetwise-would have made a great SP
#3 Was 7 years of dating, and despite my thinking that I was "cured", went for comfort, security, love (sic), young attractive, good sex... We have one child and I am indelibly fixed. This woman is a professional and works in my business ( a potential complication)
In fact, people put their lives in my hands al th time, and it is a privilege and a rush! I'm not a control freak.
As to my SP, wnet to see her for sex, liked what I waw on her sight, but forget all that. She is amazing: a single parent, physcially very attractive to me, strong both emotionally and physically. Educated, savvy, and bright-doing what she needs to do to take care of her responsibilities. Our sexual encounters still are client/provider and my sexual interest in her, while there, isn't in being a client. Hence our many non-sexual sessions. If you would have told me that I would be paying someone to get to know them, I would nave said that you're crazy. Yet after several months, I am consumed with her. She's not jumping in with both feet, but she's in the pool. Would she like to be out of her situation and still be able to take care of her responsibilities? I think so. Is she willing to be rescued at any cost. I think not. I want her to be mine, but I sure would like to talk about it with you some more.
p.s. LG
you're gut feeling not withstanding, if I "make it so attractive....and find out that she really is the person, isn't it worth it. If my feeling is so strong, isn't it worth it even to find out that she's not the one so I don't forever griev e over the road not taken?
But then I think your initial assessment is that I will never be fulfilled?
Thank you for your attention, 4yrluv,
Unfortunately I'm not in the middle of the country..I'm a coastal dweller, to be found in Los Angeles, alas.
As to talking more about it, yes, it would be great. But I would strongly recommend talking to someone in your area. I think it would be very beneficial for you to explore - YOU. As to the nurturing profession, LOL, being in it myself, I can vouch for many off-time rescue missions I've conducted, some successful, some not. That's why therapists as a professional group have peer-counseling and many resources to keep us at least minimally "sane." We watch and monitor ourselves...although many say we're still a nutty bunch!
Something for you to think about might be the "young 50" aspect of your life and persona. Are you "in love with love?" That's what many "youngish" people are. There's definitely a freshness to falling for someone as hard as you have.. and already a few times, even as you've advanced in age and maturity. It's obviously not just sexual, there'a genuinely romantic component to it as well...an idealizing such, if I may be so bold. And young people do idealize. It's just that as we age, we tend to take a more laconic and reality-based view of meeting another person. We build on our past experiences and we draw from them. With your track record, one would think that you would have been a little more reticent, but it seems you still have that idealistic and perhaps unsullied view of "true love" operating in the foreground.
It's very interesting to think of what happens to you after she's said yes and after you two are a couple. You're in the pool already, but she's getting her toes wet. What does this mean, realistically speaking? Is she as hot for you as you are for her, or is it what you represent..a way out of her stressors and a safety net? When the projection and the idealization wears off, what happens then? We obviously don't know. I'm still not thrilled about your dangling the carrot, but I think you will anyhow. Do I think it's a good idea? No, I don't. But I'm not impossible. Try this one on for size:
There is a lot of projection going on when a hobbyist and a provider meet. It's an artificial situation in many ways. Since you've read my responses on this board regarding ATFs in earlier threads, I don't want to bore you with "the boundary gospel." But my suggestion to you would be this one: Since the lady in question does work as a provider, and you're a potential 'rescuer,' could you deal with her working as a provider while having an exclusive relationship with her? And quit paying her? In other words, you become boyfriend and girlfriend just like any other couple. You do all the fun stuff that couples do together. Now since she works as a provider, chances are that she's making some decent money. Let her foot about half of all the costs involved in your dating process. Of course you shouldn't get ridiculous - if you make zillions and she makes only a couple of 100Ks, then don't go renting a yacht in St Tropez for the summer. Scale down to her level, financially, so that she can keep up. Also, do not make one single attempt at "buying her out." Let her work her profession without any jealousy, anxiety or guilt involved. You don't have to get prurient or inquisitive when it comes to her job [since you know what it entails at this point,] but be sweet and comforting as any guy when his girlfriend's had a busy, tough day on the job. Also, since you both have kids, you must have parental responsibilities. See if your kid(s) and hers can have some fun together. Really engage and enjoy as a potential blended family, but on a very equal level. No white knight behavior allowed, and no damsel in distress scenarios accepted.
Keep at it for about a year and see how it goes. If you can handle the gradual dismantling of the romantic selves and settle into a realistic, workable, trustworthy and mature relationship, let us all know.
Jeff Beck or Eric Clapton,
the Love Goddess
-- Modified on 7/25/2006 2:21:04 AM
This yardbird just won't die.
I tried to post this reply once but it didn't happen. One more try.
You're on the money again, LG. I am an incurable romantic. Am I "In love with love"? Maybe. I also like chick flicks, but not to the exclusion of action or porn. I like Sinatra, torch songs, old R&B, but not the the exclusion of the yardbirds. So does my unsullied view of true love preclude "true love"?
Is she as "hot for me as I am for her or am I just an out for her? As to her intensity, I don't know because she is so good at maintaining those boundaries.
She has built some barriers around her which I think have allowed her to do what she does and also are a reaction to what she does in her job, and she is so focused on her responsibilities(children). But she's definitely more than a little interested. As for my being just an out
for her, I don't think so. She could have made that move already. Her head seems to be screwed on too straight to just be rescued. Not that she wouldn't like out, but I don't think she'd like out at any cost. This is her livlihood, she's a single parent with several young kids, she's been married so she's not going to chuck it all on a whim. If anything, she may be too focused on her responsibilities, and her current situation may be so secure and functional, if not ideal, that she may not be able to step out of it in the near future.
I'm not waving an AMEX card in her face. The "carrot" I'm dangling is genuine feeling and commitment. And,if this happens the $$$part of the carrot may not survive the process intact(based on past experience)
I'm in a different nuturing profession than you. I use empathy and words, but mostly cold steel to facilitate change. Patience has never been my strong suit, but for now your suggestion is the plan.
You might guess that transferrance is a going to be an issue for me. I liked you immediately, LG. Where in LA? I could move....just kidding
Well, I wish I could talk you out of it, but...let's all hope this one works out! It's a good thing she's focused on her children. Blended families can be hard on kids and if she's resistant to forming a new relationship too quickly, perhaps it's also for their sake.
Yup, I'm in LA proper. Haven't decided whether to accept referrals from this board yet, but it may happen. In the meantime, I can give you a referral to someone if you state a major city near you.
Do let us know what happens,
the Love Goddess
i'll take that referral list and thank you again.
eom
This question I would like to answer off the board,
This post may make me even more unpopular on this here forum, but I'm used to being unpopular...
One thing I haven't noticed in all of your posts about your genuine feelings and commitment to your SP, is any mention of you having ended, or being in the process of ending your relationship and commitment with your current SO.
Maybe I am missing something, or have this completely wrong, but how can you offer anyone a genuine commitment or serious relationship, when you are still in a relationship with your current SO?
If that relationship isn't ended first then all you are really offering your SP is a chance at being the "other woman", a secondary relationship, where time and attention is limited, where the realtionship is forced to fit into whatever limits your current relationship allow it.
To my mind if you were at all serious in your intentions with the lady to purport to "love", you would first end your current relationship, you would make yourself as available to a future with this woman as you want her to be for you.
Right now, as it stands with you still with your SO, all the talk of taking it slow, dating for a year offering her a furture or anything else is just that, talk, because you aren't actually in a position, if still in a "commited" relationship, to offer much of anything in the way of a real future to this woman or anyone else.
You say "life is short" and that you "want to be happy", but it seems you put your happy before that of everyone else, and to assure your happy they have to put a lot on the line while you still maintain your safety net of the current SO. If you don't end your current relationship first then all promises of future have the decided feel of test driving a new car, you don't trade in the old one until you are sure the new one is going to work, until you know it is right for you...you keep "ownership" of the old car just in case you don't like the new one so that you aren't left without a "ride"...
Except people and realtionships aren't cars, and to keep around the current SO while you "test drive" a relationship with your SP isn't fair to either of them...of course you did say you were self-centered so maybe fair to either of them isn't a concern of yours, but if you will speak of love and genuine feelings and all the romatic ideals then fair is the very minimum you should want to give the woman you say you love.
You seem certain your feelings for your SP are genuine, but how can you be certain they aren't effected by your current marriage? If the marriage you are in right now is unfulfilling enough to seek out another why not end this relationship first? Why not be free to actually persue any woman you may find? and if the relationship isn't bad enough for you to want to leave without the promise of someone else there waiting in the wings for her turn to be your "one and only" why allow yourself to go there with your feelings and thoughts even to the extent of your "I will have" attitude that has been displayed in your posts here?
If you are unhappy enough in your current marriage to be willing to leave your wife and child for your SP...why is it you aren't unhappy enough in the relationship to simply leave without another woman (and children) already inplace waiting for you to leave?
Can you be certain that you love your SP and that she isn't simply an excuse to leave your current relationship and situation? and so long as you keep that current marriage intact, how will you know? Do you "love" your SP or do you just love the idea of not being with your wife anymore, but out of a fear of being alone and perhaps more unhappy than you currently are, are looking to find the happiness you seek in another realtionship, and the woman you think you have such genuine feelings for isn't simply the most likely candidate to keep you from being alone and allowing you to extricate yourself from a relationship you don't want to be in, but won't end unless there is another waiting to be in your bed every night?
You never specifically said if you would be alright with a relationship with your SP if she continued working, but your mentions of "rescued" and an "out" and that she may not want to step out of her situation, and "chucking it all on a whim" it sounds like you would want her to quit for you...that you would want her to her and her children's wellbeing on the line for your happiness...while you stay in your marriage and risk nothing in your quest for being happy. If the realtionship wouldn't work out you still have what you currently have, and other than hopeful promise not realised you get to keep everything intact, while she risks her very livelyhood.
Seems you want others to be the one to risk and lose for your happiness, but that you want safety nets and fall back positions....that isn't just self-centered that is selfish, selfish to the point of using others simply as means for your happiness...you want your wife to risk the pain and humiliations of an affair, your child's life to be disrupted by that pain, their lives effected by taking time from them and giving it to another, you want your SP to risk her way of life and freedom, and her children's future wellbeing all for you...that isn't love, and that sure as hell isn't idealic "true love".
Now, if you did mention how you are in the process of being divorced, or that you and your wife are sepparated then I apologise for not noting that, but if you didn't mention those things, then perhaps you need to ask yourself how real is the "love" you have for you SP and how much will you risk for it, and what exactly, if anything, do you feel for your wife that has you now seeking her replacement? and what do you really have to offer your SP if when aren't actually free to give her any of the things you say you want to give her?
You mention that in your profession you use empathy, maybe your only true course of action in all of this is to use some of that empathy right now, and think about how what you want effects those you either do, once did, should or claim to love, and then act accordingly and honestly from that empathy, and not out of simply selfish want...if you can do that then I would agree that you might just love your SP...but so long as it is so much one sided about what you want...it doesn't look much like love.
My SP is the "other woman" with evey one of her clients who has an SO. And she's way to smart and independent with too much ego strength to be the genuine other woman for anyone, and I wouldn't disrespect her by asking her to.
"I'll give her everything and more and that's for sure"
So what exactly is your point? That you don't know of my intentions regarding my SO, or that my love of another in the presence of an SO is selfish not just self centered? or is it something else? Trying to save my wretched soul?
Firstly, you missed it. Although I've done it (and had I not I never would have met my SP), I'm not into buying it by the hour. It just doesn't do it for me. Asw I've said I want it ALL in one package, one person. Now while that doesn't come out and tell you the legal/practical status of my relationship in real time, I think it answers your question.
Should I ask now if you're just an antagonist or the self appointed moral arbiter the TER? Are you a hobbyist? and do you have an SO? because that's the paradigm for the selfishness you describe, and you're right, people aren't cars!! but people are selfish. Isn't visiting your favorite SP while the "little wifey"( a contemptuous,term I've read more than once on these pages) sits at home deprived of that diposable income and valuable face time. But as it turns out, in addition to be self centered, I'm not guilt prone(a natural consequence of being self centered) or judgemental! One has to do what one has to do and then live with it.
I didn't mention my feelings and concern for my family. I also didn't discuss the status of my SO relationship. You know, i posted this out there on the www, not for anyone's amusment, but because I was looking for some useful insight, because, I value the LG's opinion and am not opposed to others' as well. So it's not your opinion that bothers me, it's your judgemental and condescending tone; like you know the truth and I don't. Actually, you just didn't read between the lines well enough.
I am empathic in my profession and my personal life, but if you read closely you wold know that I'm also likely to use cold steel. I'm in the process of making the appropriate incisions and excisions, and you'll pardon me if I don't share the bloody details with the world.
eom
I am offended by the holier than though regardless of the offenders gender. Although at the risk of sounding sexist, it makes more sense!
to actually think someone consider those their actions effect...then I guess I am, but I can live with that.
You are just a cut above the rest of us aren't you? Spare me the second verse, and don't pat yourself on the back too much. It wasn't your opinion, but your attitude and tone, which hasn''t and I'm sure won't, and like I said we all have to do what we do and then live with it!
What WebTerrorist, no reply, no more pontification, no more biting insight?
and refused. *grin*
Have a nice day.
you do better with a cheap shot?
here ya go...
As for the "cheap shot" I was saying I wasn't going to take your bait...I was going to let it drop, but apparently that's not what you want so I'll reply...look you got what you wanted...happy? *smirk*
You want my point in simple straight forward terms?
here's my point:
How can you be sure you love your SP? (You mention finding her online, you mention how good your first appointment was, you mention subsequent appointments, you mention some are without sex...have you paid for all of these? If so how do you convince yourself she feels the same as you when she is recieving compensation for her time with you? Even if you have spent time with her without the fee is it everytime? Since you referred to the time you spend together sexual or not as sessions, and mention paying someone to get to know them I would say the answer is "no"...just guessing though.
The ladies in this business, if they are very good at it, are supposed to be everything you are looking for, that's the point, that's the fantasy they sell...and anyone can be perfect an hour, or two or twelve or even a week at a time...so again how can you be sure?)
How can you be sure this isn't another rebound type situation (like you mentioned about your second wife)?
How can you be sure that the feelings for your SP aren't influenced by your current relationship?
My point was and is: that you talk a lot about what you want, and that this woman is what you want, that you offer genuine feelings and a future, but you also seem to be saying you have had three bad marriages, one a rebound, two to ladies 10 and 12 years younger than yourself...and you you write "(sic)" after you talk of love in regards to your current SO...
Now, you are in love with a lady you pay to spend time with you, certain she loves you too, that is 20 years your junior, that is more than a rebound but overlapping another relationship..and you seem to want her in your life at all costs, as you think the chance at happiness worth it...
But what if you're wrong?
What if she doesn't love you?
What if you don't love her?
I caught your mention of wanting it all in one package...but what I didn't catch was when you are free to have that one package offer...
If you are leaving your current wife for this woman...what happens if she isn't the one?
If your SP does feel the same for you...but when the stark realities set in when it becomes a real relationship and not paid for time where you and your wants are the focus comes into play, you discover it wasn't love but maybe just not being with your wife, or maybe liking it being all about you as sessions tend to be? What then? What happens to your SP? What happens to you? What happens to her children? what happens to yours?
I don't expect you to answer any of these questions...I am simply throwing them out there for you to maybe think about.
As for ladies in this profession being the other woman an hour at a time...I disagree, the clients are the other men...even if the ladies are single...it is a difference of balance and control...a mistress awaits when the man in her life will give her time and attention...clients wait for when the ladies will give them time and attention. *smirk*
A provider is not the "other woman" an hour at a time or otherwise...because it isn't that the provider desires time with the client...it is that the client desires time with the provider.
I am sorry that you thought my post judgemental...I was simply trying to make the point that other people besides you are involved in what you want, and that thinking of how what you want effects them is a surer sign of love than just saying what you want. For all your talk of past wives, current wife and love interest, you say very little about how your wants will effect anyone besides yourself...perhaps oddest is, even for all your talk of how this will make you happy you don't seem to consider how any of this will effect you if she isn't the one.
As for your questions about me...
Single, no "little wifey" at home, no disposable or indisposable income taken from anyone, and the only thing that loses face time from me is my dog, if I am not home. No, I am not a hobbyist, exactly, as i have never made an appointment with a lady for a session.
As for your soul...I have no real interest in your soul...I don't know if it is wretched or not...and I don't know if it nedds saving or not, that's for you to decide.
Ok, I think that covers your questions...hope it made ya happy to push for a reply.
-- Modified on 8/2/2006 6:33:09 PM
Happy yes, guilty no. Are you happy? Disappointed?
Your subtley softer underbelly is more appealing.
I don't agree with all you have to say, and much of it has been said before, making it no less valid.
Again the assumption that none of this has been considered just becasue it wan't spelled out?
And to answer one of your rhetorical questions: The inevitability of leaving my SO was built into my seeking an SP in the first place. I wasn't looking for love, just a roll in the hay. It happened. And if it doesn't work, no guts no glory, But I think it will. Why and how do I know. It's a gut feeling. (ok that was more than one) I'll keep you posted *satisfied sigh*
Believe it or not...I really do hope all works out as you hope, for both of you and that you have a wonderful future together.
Though it might not have been my place to do so, I thought some things needed to be mentioned, needed to be considered for you to be able to go into this your eyes wide open, as that would increase the chances of this working out in everyone's best interest. I don't like to see anyone hurt, you, her, either of your families...
I may seem less than soft, but if you can, please believe that my intentions are generally good, and since I don't know, at least to my knowledge, either of you, I could have the, perhaps, cold detatched third party perspective, to wonder about certain aspects of what you hope to have come to pass in all of this.
As to my assumptions that things weren't considered because they weren't mentioned...all that I can know of you is what you have shared in your posts, so what is omitted, I was left to make assumptions about, and in my own odd way, I thought to err on the side of pointing out what might have been left out because it hadn't been thought of.
I have friends on both sides of this business, I know married men that would never leave their wives and only see ladies because of unfulfilling sex lives, and I know single men that meet ladies and fall in love and single men that just want the sex without the rigors of relationship, and I also know men that say they would never leave their wives but then meet a specific lady and start thinking that they could or would leave their wives for that lady...so when things go unsaid I have no way of knowing which you might have been other than you were not at this moment single.
On the ladies side, I know ladies that have fallen for clients that did and said all the right things but couldn't or wouldn't be able to have real relationships with them, and the ladies got terribly hurt in that. I have also known ladies that had SOs, boyfriends (and on a couple of occassions girlfriends) at home that their clients never knew about, and some clients would fall for these ladies never knowing that she had the private family life she desired, and wasn't looking for or wanting anyone or anything else.
I actually know of one lady that the entire time she was working in this business had, at home, a boyfriend, she would tell her clients about her children, and that she was working to put herself through school, what she was studying and what she wanted for her career, what none of those clients ever knew, even after she retired, was that she already had the relationship she wanted in her personal life, and when she did retire she never told them it was to get married...she simply said she finished her degree and was starting on the career that she had always wanted...and some of those clients, even after more than a year still have feelings for her and wish they had made an effort to woo her.
I have also known a lady that had a married client that said he loved her, and she fell for him...he wanted her to retire and made all kinds of plans for their future, until the day she actually wanted those plans to become a reality, and he then informed her of how, though he didn't love his wife he would never leave her, and it broke that lady's heart and as she told me of what had happened even some time after the fact I watched her fight back tears.
So, again I am sorry if I seemed harsh, but with so many possibilities, and with the things I have seen and the folks I have known...when things go unsaid the possibilities of what is going on is endless, and sadly often negative, and in my own perhaps convoluted way I chose to err on the side of the harsher possibilities being the situation out of my concern for all involved.
I do wish you best, and please do let us all know how things work out, as I am interested in knowing if you found your happily everafter.
-- Modified on 8/4/2006 11:11:53 AM
Thanks for the dispassionate, but what what genuinely seems to be a heartfelt response.
I totally agree with Web Terrorist. I am in a similiar position, except that I have been seperated awhile and divorce is inevitable. I started this hobby to forget the pain of a failed marriage twice to the same woman of my children. For the past month, I have been seeing a SP and I became scared of my feelings for her. I decided to seek out another SP to find out what was I really feeling. After that encounter, I saw I saw my regular SP and the feelings were still there for her. We started out by talking a lot especially for me, enjoyed some great fun, and then my last 2 times, we just talked and expressed our feelings for each other. I have stopped seeing her through the agency she works for, and we talk daily and have seen each other outside of the hobby a couple of times. We both have families and she is aware of my situation with no promises or offers to free her. She is also in a money situation and I have told her once she is fully committed to me, that I would like her to stop the provider business. She assures me she will, but at times I think about what she might be doing. I am sure her feelings for me are real, and what makes it diffucult, is now my estranged spouse wants me back, which I don't want, I already made the mistake of taking her back because of our children, I want to be happy and she does that. I guess I won't really know till she leaves the business, but I have already estabhlished that my divorce will continue no matter what. She is always talking about us getting together, living together, etc, but I also sense that since she has been in this business for awhile, she has heard this all before and doesn't want to get completely attached for fear she might get hurt. I have made no promises to her except that my feelings for her are genuine. I think how I am going about this is right, but yet I am scared of getting hurt and I know this is not a rebound for me. Sure, if it doesn't work, I could go back to a miserable marriage because of the kids, but everyone loses in that, especially in my opinion, our kids. Any insight would be welcomed too
u
Dear What 2 do,
I understand your situation, but here's an insight for you: have you ever tried to live alone, independently, as an adult? When I think about what you're describing, I see a pinball, bouncing almost willy-nilly at warp speed, between various women.
In addition, your divorce has nothing to do with meeting a provider. You're leaving the woman you tried it with twice [!] because you've come to the conclusion it doesn't work. Why is her wanting you back even a concern of yours? And why would you remotely consider it?
As to the SP, you'll need to ascertain that you can live with her profession in your life until SHE decides to stop. Which might take a while, because let's face it, it's her business and she's making a [good, hopefully] living at it. For men who fall in love with providers, there should almost be a requirement to put up with a transitional period. In particular, this applies if you've met the SP as a client. You're fully aware of what she does - in fact, that's how you first connected. So if you can do a "mrfisher" [yep, he's become a fabulous noun here on the board,] then you might have a fighting chance of making it work.
As to if it doesn't work, why would you even remotely think about going BACK to the woman you left twice? You're leaving each other now, so stick to that plan. The kids have probably endured emotional ups and downs already, what with parents coming, going, coming and going again.
I'm trying to be very empathic here, and I apologize if it's coming out as 'tough love.' Most of all, I would like to see you live alone in order to construct an emotionally independent existence. You need to get to know yourself better and lead a more authentic life with no doubts, vacillations or quandaries.
the Love Goddess
Yes, I have lived alone for a long time. I was not serious about going back to my ex, I was trying to make a point, that it won't work until 4yurluv acyually makes a commitment to leave. What I left out and now I will share with you LG, is she made the first move. I was unsure of my feelings at first, told myself that this was not supposed to happen. After taking a week or so break from her, I decided to see her again and we both laid it out on the line. This is a 2nd job for her and its all about the money. She is an extremley successful businesswoman who apparently made some bad finanical decisions to get to this point in her life. Forgive me for ranting, I just thought from a similiar view, 4yurluv would actually stop being self centered and realize the extreme emotional effect of what he is doing to another women. Hope this helps
Yes, additional info is always good, what 2 do,
You were certainly not ranting, no need to apologize. Since you have lived alone for a while, I suppose you have thought out some alternatives to that situation. I'm just not sure that an otherwise 'extremely successful businesswoman' would choose the provider way out, even if she'd made some bad financial decisions. In any case, I'd say if you can live with her providing until she decides to stop, then try it. But I wouldn't recommend it as a general rule. Few men are able to deal with the complex feelings that arise when their loved one sleeps with other men for a living. Maybe you should wait until she stops providing...unless you've thought this one out as well and feel very ready, willing and able to try it out while she's still working.
End of story for now,
the Love Goddess
Good advice LG. I am considering all options. If I don't think about what she might be doing, I am ok, but the mind loves 2 play games with us. So, I told her when she is fully committed, things will have 2 change. But I will not ask or tell her to quit for me, (she could always resent that later) she will have to do it for us, then I will know how she truly feels.And if not, then if I continue the hobby, my feelings will be checked at the door from now on.