Politics and Religion

This may very well end soon but it was Obama and politics that cancelled the CDC's previous policie
ed2000 31 Reviews 900 reads
posted

This may very well end soon but it was Obama and politics that cancelled the CDC's previous policies in 2010. Previous policies that included quarantine and travel restrictions in case of contagious disease outbreaks.  

As far as the "Czar" is concerned, our blind squirrel friend, AF, got this one right when he pointed out below the Czar's purpose is not to manage the Ebola but to manage the politics of the Ebola.

-- Modified on 10/18/2014 11:19:56 AM

JackDunphy3170 reads

Ok. Not a terrible idea...but.

Is he a doctor? No.

Healthcare worker? No.

Ebola expert? No.

Infectious disease expert then? No.

Any experience AT ALL in the healthcare field, related field, something similar? Ummmm...no.

Lets meet our new man for the job, lifetime political hack, Ron Klain.

Confidence inspiring, isn't it?

They typically are not a doctor, healthcare worker or expert in any diseases. They are hired for their administrative skills. You think that might be the case here?   ;)

JackDunphy909 reads

I don't trust Obama's decision making on the selection but maybe you do. lol.

The political hack could have worked next to or under an "expert" Matt, not be the leading face for it to the country.

And remember, this is the same WH just a few weeks ago that was telling us there isn't any need to have someone head this up.  

And it Obama saying it was "extremely unlikely" Ebola would ever make it to the U.S. only to hear on the news (lol) and just a few days later Ebola was here.  

Part of governments job is to inspire confidence in the public Matt, especially when the public is fearful.  

Obama and his lack of executive experience and his bungling doesn't do it for me and the majority of Americans

I was responding to your error in logic. If you have a problem with O or his appointment based on other issues, I have no problem with that. But, it seems when a Republican president or presidential candidate changes his mind on the issue, the conservatives chalk it up to due to him responding to new data. They don't seem to give the same grace to a democrat.

JackDunphy1563 reads

The hire should have been someone the public instantly trusted as credible and reassuring, which he is not, AND I have a problem with Obama's horrendous executive skills.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

And the question is, do YOU have faith in this hire and how Obama has handled the Ebola situation to date?

GaGambler917 reads

I would love to see how they justify this appointment of a political hack.

but I will say, just like with Katrina, there is more than enough blame at the state and local level to go around. Just like Bush was not to blame for mismanagements committed by Nagin. Obama doesn't deserve a lot of the blame for fuckups committed by the City of Dallas. I can't believe how badly Dallas and the State of Texas has fucked this up. BTW I currently live in Dallas, and right now I have ZERO faith in their ability to handle this crisis. As much as I despise the Obama administration, there is no way the CDC and the Feds can fuck this up any worse than has already be done.

I was in Fl nine and ten years ago when we had our slew of hurricanes. My home, my biz both got slammed. Gov Bush was everywhere. Everywhere. Where was Gov Blanco during Katrina? Invisible. But it was all another 'Bush's' fault. Ray Nagan? He's where he belongs right now. The fedpen.  

Posted By: GaGambler
I would love to see how they justify this appointment of a political hack.

but I will say, just like with Katrina, there is more than enough blame at the state and local level to go around. Just like Bush was not to blame for mismanagements committed by Nagin. Obama doesn't deserve a lot of the blame for fuckups committed by the City of Dallas. I can't believe how badly Dallas and the State of Texas has fucked this up. BTW I currently live in Dallas, and right now I have ZERO faith in their ability to handle this crisis. As much as I despise the Obama administration, there is no way the CDC and the Feds can fuck this up any worse than has already be done.

At least this guy has an acumen beyond looking into a horse's mouth.  

 One thing for certain. When they start calling it the "War on Ebola"; we're fucked!

These are the results for all of first 10 hospitals that came to mind. Maybe I just got lucky but decided to quit after 10. Then I thought. . . . what about the hospital in Dallas that messed up so badly. Pay particular attention to the last one on the list whose CEO only holds a masters degree.  

CEO - Massachusetts General Hospital - Peter L. Slavin M.D.
CEO - Johns Hopkins Hospital - Paul B. Rothman, M.D.
CEO - Cleveland Clinic - Delos M. Cosgrove, MD
CEO - Trinity Health - Richard J. Gilfillan, M.D.
CEO - Mount Sinai Hospital - Kenneth L. Davis, M.D.
CEO - Memorial Sloan Kettering - Craig B. Thompson, M.D.
CEO - Mayo Clinic - John H. Noseworthy, M.D.
CEO - Mount Sinai Hospital, Kenneth L. Davis
CEO - UCLA Hospital System - David Feinberg, M.D.
CEO – Emory University Hospital - S. Wright Caughman, MD

CEO - Presbyterian Hospital of Dallas - Jim Berg, B.S.,M.S

Jack: "Is he a doctor? No.
 
Healthcare worker? No.
 
Ebola expert? No.
 
Infectious disease expert then? No.
 
Any experience AT ALL in the healthcare field, related field, something similar? Ummmm...no."

Point 1: You picked, 10 of the most prestigious hospitals in the U.S. Try doing your homework with some of the less prestigious hospitals.

Point 2: M.D. is a degree, not a license. How many of these M.D.s, have a current license,?  

Point 3: M.D. is a degree, not a practice. How many actually practice medicine; see patients?

Point 4: How many are "Ebola experts?"

Point 5: How many are "Infectious disease experts?"

Point 6: Why are you beating this dead horse? Part of my response to Jack was: " If you have a problem with O or his appointment based on other issues, I have no problem with that."

Now, if you want to do some more homework in regards to the questions I've asked, be my guest!  ;)

If you or Jack think Obama has a lock on the cronism title, check out the list of Czars Bush appointed, particularly in the health related fields. Particularly, the Bird Flu Czar: http://freepress.org/columns/display/1/2005/1257

Does the AIDS Czar have a M.D. next to his name?   ;)

If you're feeling particularly industrious, go all the way back to Franklin D. Roosevelt! ;)   http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/czar-search

So now you go down your typical path, attempting to redefine your own terms regarding an M.D., that it is not a medical doctor, while you obviously missed the larger point. I am sure lesser institutions employ CEOs that are not doctors, but it sure looks like the good ones do.

You seem to think it's OK for a top level executive, governing a national medical problem, to have the same credentials as a CEO at some regional hospital in East Podunk, Nebraska.

As far as the rest of your diversion, no thank you. I have already stated my opinion elsewhere in this thread regarding the latest czar. I simply wanted to correct the record regarding your incorrect statement, thank you.  

Actually, here's a new point. Ron Klain is a lawyer and political operative. How many hospitals or health systems are run by political operatives with a law degree? BTW, do we know if he ever passed the Bar? I'm sure he did but let's raise the issue anyway just to keep things flowing into the nebulous realms you appreciate.

Thank you, thank you, thank you! You are always good for a good laugh. Reading your response is reminiscent of watching a freshly speared carp flopping around. So, I'm imagining I overwhelmed you with too much data about czarships and cronyism. I guess you must have just blown a fuse. What M.D.'s did Bush's czar Bird Flu have, Heh? I didn't criticize Jack for his criticism of Obama and his appointment, and I made that perfectly clear. I have no idea what job he'll do. I criticized him on the criteria he used to for someone being a legitimate czar of Ebola. And, I criticized you because your studies n is way too small and skewed.

P.S. Since you have to make everything, with me, about competition vs. discussion I call this check and mate!   ;)

You came really close in your first response but then had to attempt a change in your criteria and your own use of definitions. Your diversion to Bush and cronyism had zero application to my simple demonstration that you were wrong. I wouldn't take it personally.  

Those 10 hospitals were the first ones that came to my mind. 9 for 9 a fluke? Pick 10 more major hospitals if you like. I've since thought of Northwestern and it does fit your criteria, but I did not cherry pick anything.

Or you can come up with something else totally new rather than address the points I made here and earlier.

his point with a little more clarity.

       The analogy here is not to a “hospital head” but the CEO of a large diversified health services company.  It is not all uncommon for  large health services organizations to choose non-M.Ds. as CEO. George Halvorson, the longtime CEO of Kaiser Permanente is probably the most prominent example. BA in English and History I believe. Larry Renfro is chief executive officer of Optum, UnitedHealth Group's health services platform, is not an MD.

        Stephen J. Hemsley  the Chief Executive Officer of UnitedHealth Group Inc. is also not a doctor.

      Could –gasp- even a lawyer run a large health care organization? Well I would have said “no” on general principles but I would be wrong  -  – check out Angela Braly, J.D.,  long time CEO of Wellpoint.

         The larger the organization and the broader the services supplied, the less likely the CEO is going to be a doctor. That is the thinking that led to the choice of  a non MD for the Ebola Czar – he will have to deal with many, many non-medical issues as well as the medical ones

I simply refuted his assertion regarding hospitals. Your new claims that he was not addressing the correct health sector only rings true the criticisms of Obama. Obama is clearly approaching this issue from his political messaging perspective. Your choice of health sector examples obviously approaches the issue from a health insurance and financial control perspective (as I would expect and yes I know one aspect of these large health systems is "medical centers" but their primary focus is on the finances. The only reason their into healthcare delivery is to control costs). No, Matt had it about right in singling out hospitals. What the people want and need is faith that their healthcare and welfare is going to be properly managed, not the costs and certainly not Obama's image.

His only skills are as a political hack. He has been brought in to minimize the damage of bad optics.

Posted By: mattradd
They typically are not a doctor, healthcare worker or expert in any diseases. They are hired for their administrative skills. You think that might be the case here?   ;)

DA_Flex670 reads

Let's see...we've had 2 cases of Ebola in this country. Those exposed who contracted it were health care workers that came in contact with a patient that had an active case. The hospital failed to follow protocols and somehow this is the fault of the federal government. Additionally, these two cases now somehow require the need for a CZAR?  I'm not saying that we shouldn't be concerned, but the entire focus on this disease, especially after only 2 cases seems to be misplaced panic.  Irresponsible reporting, combined with politicians using this disease as a campaign tool is driving this hysteria. I think Sheperd Smith said it best, if you want to protect yourself best, get a flu shot, more people die from this virus each year than any other disease.

Posted By: JackDunphy
Ok. Not a terrible idea...but.  
   
 Is he a doctor? No.  
   
 Healthcare worker? No.  
   
 Ebola expert? No.  
   
 Infectious disease expert then? No.  
   
 Any experience AT ALL in the healthcare field, related field, something similar? Ummmm...no.  
   
 Lets meet our new man for the job, lifetime political hack, Ron Klain.  
   
 Confidence inspiring, isn't it?

Please take a look at this beautifully written article exposing media and government for what is and where they get power from keeping us very afraid, and learn to embrace change and love this beautiful life.  Love, Madison

http://www.liberatedthinking.com/data/Articles/fear.html

 



-- Modified on 10/17/2014 12:55:47 PM

quels my unease of the virus being in North America,  but at this point,  it is what it is,  and we need to deal with it sensibly,  notwithstanding our ideologies.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/abby-norman/im-a-hazmat-trained-hospi_b_5998486.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

It's an insightful blog post.

And didn't OUR President, Government and the MEDIA exploit it fully after 9/11!

  What do you think the chances are of EVER getting rid of the "Patriot Act"? It should have been named  
the 'Cowards Capitulation'. The first strike by a foreign force on American soil and the populace freely abrogated the very core of our liberties and freedoms.  I know we have some hard-core, military veteran flag waivers here; but don't you feel a bit disillusioned about this shit?

I'm confused. Didn't someone in DC claim there'd never be a case of anyone getting infected here in the US? Yes, I thought so. And I'd wager if you lived in Dallas right now, you might feel a tad differently do you think? As O'bama has criticized 'Bush' for anything and everything, its funny watching him eat a shitsandwich here. Whether he realizes it or not. What's news with ISIS btw?

Posted By: Madison_Ohare
Please take a look at this beautifully written article exposing media and government for what is and where they get power from keeping us very afraid, and learn to embrace change and love this beautiful life.  Love, Madison  
   
 http://www.liberatedthinking.com/data/Articles/fear.html  
   
   
   
 

-- Modified on 10/17/2014 12:55:47 PM

GaGambler958 reads

I am a bit pissed at the danger I've been put in by the incompetence of the hospital, the city and the state, not to mention the CDC. Notice I am not blaming Obama, well not yet at least. Lets see if this disease is contained before throwing the Obama administration under the bus.

I will add that so far at least, Obama looks at least as feckless as everyone else so far in appointing an obviously unqualified person as "ebola czar".

This may very well end soon but it was Obama and politics that cancelled the CDC's previous policies in 2010. Previous policies that included quarantine and travel restrictions in case of contagious disease outbreaks.  

As far as the "Czar" is concerned, our blind squirrel friend, AF, got this one right when he pointed out below the Czar's purpose is not to manage the Ebola but to manage the politics of the Ebola.

-- Modified on 10/18/2014 11:19:56 AM

GaGambler756 reads

but I guess they have a double standard in that respect, I am sure they would like to forget all of the criticism they leveled at Bush for his choice of head of FEMA now that their fearless leader has appointed a political hack as Ebola czar

A dumbfuck state where intelligence doesn’t exist whatsoever.

Please do say in Dallas

 

Posted By: GaGambler
I am a bit pissed at the danger I've been put in by the incompetence of the hospital, the city and the state, not to mention the CDC. Notice I am not blaming Obama, well not yet at least. Lets see if this disease is contained before throwing the Obama administration under the bus.

I will add that so far at least, Obama looks at least as feckless as everyone else so far in appointing an obviously unqualified person as "ebola czar".  

followme798 reads

obama's cluster fucks.

The problem is that the Americam people pay for it in more ways than one

Thank you  
2014 = GOP Senate and House

Scientific facts.  

Science part of it is done by NIH, CDC and other medical professionals excluding Texas Presbyterian Hospital which made ebola into an albatross.  

One patient severe infected air lifted from West Africa goes to Emory University Hospital i Atlanta. Completely cured in fourteen days later, regains strength and goes home.

Second one airlifted to Oklahoma University hospital gets cured and goes home.

Third one takes commercial flight from West Africa, doesn’t feel well goes to Texas Presbyterian. Hospital sends him home. Gets severely sick a week later,  goes to the same Texas Presbyterian, admits him, couldn’t treat, patient dies.

Gets health care worker infected by not following known medical procedures. Airlifts patient to NIH hospital in Bethesda (thank god for that)

Another health care worker is infected from the same hospital.

No one gets infected in other two hospitals where patient #1 and #2 2 were treated successfully.

Media is having field day spreading conspiracy theories and spreading fear and the American public would rather listen to CNN and Fox instead of quaffed doctors including CNN’s Sanjay Gupta (yes, Sanjay is medical doctor practicing out of Emory Hospital).

Ignorant Repugnant hacks are critiquing a political appointment without really knowing the meaning of coordination versus medical treatment.  

How come you haven’t come up with an Obama conspiracy to destroy America since the disease originated in Western Africa? May there is. I just don’t know.

Jack dummy, enough medical experts have spoken about ebola, did you hear any of it? No.  

This is political appointment to placate dumb asses like you and to distract the attention of the like of yours so real doctors can focus on the ebola problem instead of getting distracted by stupid shit repugnants.
 

Posted By: JackDunphy
Ok. Not a terrible idea...but.  
   
 Is he a doctor? No.  
   
 Healthcare worker? No.  
   
 Ebola expert? No.  
   
 Infectious disease expert then? No.  
   
 Any experience AT ALL in the healthcare field, related field, something similar? Ummmm...no.  
   
 Lets meet our new man for the job, lifetime political hack, Ron Klain.  
   
 Confidence inspiring, isn't it?

salonpas843 reads

........The NRA has told their Republican slaves that the current nominee should be filibustered because of his views on gun control. I have no issue with the work experience of this Ebola czar. Republicans have decided to politicize the Ebola hysteria and Democrats have responded with a political insider who can handle the politics, which obviously the current head of CDC has been unable to do. This Ebola Czar sole job will be to coordinate between the relevant agencies and the White House to make sure they are all working from the same script and receiving all the relevant resources they need to combat the disease.

Posted By: JackDunphy
Ok. Not a terrible idea...but.  
   
 Is he a doctor? No.  
   
 Healthcare worker? No.  
   
 Ebola expert? No.  
   
 Infectious disease expert then? No.  
   
 Any experience AT ALL in the healthcare field, related field, something similar? Ummmm...no.  
   
 Lets meet our new man for the job, lifetime political hack, Ron Klain.  
   
 Confidence inspiring, isn't it?

It uses video clips taken totally out of context, attempting to dishonestly take advantage of the Ebola situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3D0DxjgPB0

 
Oh, wait. My mistake. It's a Democrat ad.


-- Modified on 10/18/2014 1:11:37 PM

salonpas713 reads

In the immediate run-up to the midterm elections, we’re witnessing fear mongering about Ebola on the southern border from across the conservative spectrum, from fringe figures to relatively moderate Republicans.

Former Arkansas governor and Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee offers this: “When the government says it can’t keep people out of the US, what it means is that it won’t keep people out. And why should we be surprised? We’ve seen our borders routinely ignored. So if someone with Ebola really wants to come to the US, just get to Mexico and walk right in.”

Thom Tillis, the Republican candidate for Senate in North Carolina, used a recent debate to claim that his opponent “failed the people of North Carolina and the nation by not securing our border.” Tillis continued, “Ladies and gentlemen, we’ve got an Ebola outbreak, we have bad actors that can come across the border. We need to seal the border and secure it.”

The preposterous idea of an Ebola victim swimming the Rio Grande fits within a larger pattern of conservatives placing dire threats at the southern border.  

A few weeks ago, it was ISIS terrorists who were supposedly on the border, for instance with Scott Brown, another Republican Senate candidate, who warned that “[r]adical Islamic terrorists are threatening to cause the collapse of our country,” and then assuring voters, “I want to secure the border, keep out the people who would do us harm.” Adapting to recent events, last week Brown switched out Ebola for ISIS: “people with Ebola and other infectious diseases can enter the country without being challenged,” he claimed.

long-time conservative activist Phyllis Schlafly recently opined, “out of all the things [Obama’s] done, I think this thing of letting these diseased people into this country to infect our own people is just the most outrageous of all.”

Then, adding Ebola to the mix, Schlafly continued that Obama might secretly hope that Ebola becomes widespread here.  

“Obama doesn’t want America to believe that we’re exceptional,” she contends. “He wants us to be just like everybody else, and if Africa is suffering from Ebola, we ought to join the group and be suffering from it, too. That’s his attitude.”

Julio Varela, remarks, “you take the most extreme examples of xenophobic hysteria — Mexicans, terrorists, ISIS, the border crisis and Ebola — and mash them all together to create a new narrative of craziness.”

It seems that those spreading panic about Ebola, ISIS and the southern border hope that their new rhetoric will reinvigorate an old tactic: racial dog whistling. It has never been bigotry amid politicians that drives this, so much as the cold calculation that stimulating racial panic can win votes. And as they have before, many within the GOP seem to be banking that it will work again.

 I agree

you didn't understand my point or didn't bother to watch the video I linked, or both.

JackDunphy668 reads

He has a duty to calm the fears of the American public and to give press conferences with pertinent medical information.  That is a HUGE part of his responsibilities and something he is not qualified to do.  

Tell me you would feel confident if Karl Rove was the  Ebola Czar? It should have been a NON political  non partisan appointment, someone that doesn't give a shit about the politics of the situation. Someone independent.

But no. Obama gave us a hack because he cares about the politics over the policy. No shock there.

And you wonder why people think he is a shitty leader, don't trust him, and has such low approval ratings.  

The choice of this stooge just crystallizes everything that is so fked up with this incredibly inept admin on virtually every thing it touches.

-- Modified on 10/18/2014 4:18:28 PM

"Obama gave us a hack because he cares about the politics over the policy. No shock there.
 
And you wonder why people think he is a shitty leader, don't trust him, and has such low approval ratings.  
 
The choice of this stooge just crystallizes everything that is so fked up with this incredibly inept admin on virtually every thing it touches."

Yep! Where was the M.D. after the Bird Flu Czars name

"Klain will report to both White House homeland security adviser Lisa Monaco and National Security Adviser Susan Rice, according to a White House official."

I believe these are the same two people that had already been doing Obama's bidding on this issue. The announcement should have been, "Susan Rice hires an assistant to answer the phone and help spin Ebola issues.

Posted By: ed2000
"Klain will report to both White House homeland security adviser Lisa Monaco and National Security Adviser Susan Rice, according to a White House official."  
   
 I believe these are the same two people that had already been doing Obama's bidding on this issue. The announcement should have been, "Susan Rice hires an assistant to answer the phone and help spin Ebola issues."  
   
 

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