those who never learned to take personal responsibility. How much does that cost us? One learns that from parents who have demonstrated and taught how to do it. It's not so much a matter of taking hand outs; particularly if you're referring to social welfare programs. When it comes to sex, how responsible do you really think most teenagers are?
For anyone, including those social conservatives who want to stop abortions, and fiscal conservatives who bemoan the cost of their tax dollars going to support pregnant teens and their offspring, how can you really not support free birth-control? It significantly reduces teen pregnancies, hence reducing abortions, and a fiscal conservative, who does not support it is being a penny wise while being a pound foolish.
Did they do it scientifically, to match the general public group of teens, or random? In other words, were the 1500 kids chosen representative of the country at large for that age group?
If the study is accurate and similar results gathered from Indy studies, I would agree, from at least a fiscal conservative view point, this may make sense. The other added benefit would be less dependent children for the state (i.e. the tax payers) to care for.
Social conservatives tend to be different as many of them oppose birth control for teens/unmarried altogether for religious/moral reasons so I wouldn't expect an "AMEN" from them on this one. lol
I couldn't read Table 1, however given this part of the article: "The significant racial disparities in national teen pregnancy rates, which are higher in black and Hispanic communities, also shrank in the study population, the researchers found.
"Nationally, there's a huge disparity, like a lot of health conditions," Gina Secura, director of the project, told The Huffington Post. "But in the CHOICE cohort, they were almost nearly identical. So it can be done. We can reduce the disparity in unintended pregnancy in our teens in the United States."
I would say it was reasonably representative of the population in question.
If the study is accurate and similar results gathered from Indy studies, I would agree, from at least a fiscal conservative view point, this may make sense. The other added benefit would be less dependent children for the state (i.e. the tax payers) to care for.
Social conservatives tend to be different as many of them oppose birth control for teens/unmarried altogether for religious/moral reasons so I wouldn't expect an "AMEN" from them on this one. lol
I guess I missed that part, though it's just common sense that educating a person on the types of birth control and making it free would tend to make it less probable that they would become pregnant, if that is indeed their desire. If I'm not mistaken, I think that's one of the main reasons adult men and women use birth control. 
More dependence on government. No perceived consequences or risks. More victims for Uncle Sam (you and me) to support. More need for the launching pad to Socialism that is Obamacare.
and that is he lumps both fiscal and social conservatives as opposing this.
I am most definitely a fiscal conservative, but being conservative doesn't mean not spending taxpayer money on anything. I would much rather spend money on birth control, and yes IMO that also includes abortion rather than be overwhelmed with children that end up being raised by the state or otherwise end of on the public dole.
The main reason that a fiscal conservative would object to this is not that it's a bad investment but because he most likely is a social conservative as well. I am rather liberal where it comes to social issues, so this is a no brainer for me, I support it fully.
Now Matt, you might want to reconsider the header on your OP, here are two "fiscal conservatives" that are not against our tax dollars being invested into programs that actually pay dividends. So APOLOGIZE!!! lol
my clarifying statements, regarding who I was directly addressing, within the subject line, so I did it in the 1st sentence in the post. And, you are correct, I can't see where a purely fiscal conservative would have a problem with spending money on birth control.
So, with that explanation, if you feel I still must "APOLOGIZE," I will. lol
I may be the one needing to apologize.
It does appear that the more religious one is, the more likely that person is to oppose this, regardless of what excuse that person uses to argue against it.
I am a pragmatist first and foremost, Teen pregnancy is a HUGE problem and has been for decades. Hey we offer "Free" spaying and neutering for our pets, and a litter of dogs costs a hell of a lot less than a child born to a 16 year old high school dropout who has no ability either emotionally or financially to raise a child.
The high upfront costs are a bit alarming, but I don't think we should simply dismiss this idea out of hand, just because people are calling it "free", and of course we all know that somebody has to pay for it. The real question should be, do we get a decent return on investment, and so far at least, it looks promising to say the least.
The fact young people today practice safe is hurting the bottom line of the vaginal contraceptive manufacturers.
There is no length too great! for the democrats to go, to get inside a teen's pussy... and stay there.
Matt, who pays for the removal of the IUD?
-- Modified on 10/2/2014 9:19:55 AM
But at the principle level I would NEVER support any handout like that.. Why should it be free? Is it that expensive that kids can't afford condoms? The same teenagers will buy booze and cigarettes when they want to party. Why can't they afford to buy their own condoms? Just a movie date costs about $35-40 at least these days.
Its not the question of being penny wise and pound foolish for "me" but rather accepting personal responsibility.
-- Modified on 10/2/2014 5:56:09 PM
"Its not the question of being penny wise and pound foolish for "me" but rather accepting personal responsibility."
You're already paying for the consequences of those kids who have not accepted their "personal responsibility," and, you'll continue to do so no matter what Paul Ryan promises you. So, I'd rather go with knowing they, overall will not, and pay for a solution. As Tony Soprano says: "It is what it is!" And, that's true with kid's taking person responsibility.Yes, they should, but the reality is they usually don't.
-- Modified on 10/2/2014 3:05:40 PM
handouts operates. You start out with one handout and then to deal with the mess that the first handout creates, you create more handouts..
What if we don't pay for the consequences these kids not taking personal responsibility. A case could be made that they may start taking more personal responsibility going forward.
those who never learned to take personal responsibility. How much does that cost us? One learns that from parents who have demonstrated and taught how to do it. It's not so much a matter of taking hand outs; particularly if you're referring to social welfare programs. When it comes to sex, how responsible do you really think most teenagers are?
It is a matter of taking handouts.. When the handouts are available, it discourages a segment of from taking personal responsibility.
When you reduce the money spent on handouts, it will force those who can to take responsibility to do so. Do you really think those people buying pot with tax payer money in CO, need government assistance?
-- Modified on 10/2/2014 9:30:42 PM
Explain handouts first. Then count to 100 and think for 30 minutes then validate your statement.
Your statement is nothing more than drinking Kool-Aid.
Unfortunately, this idea of punishing the less fortunate by branding them free-loaders, irresponsible and what not have never worked any where in the planet. Why?
Humanity did not start on equal footing any where in the world and divide between the have and have nots was exasperated by the haves through out history.
If this Republican led persecution of the less fortunate continue then, US will end with more poor people than in any other part of the world over time.
Suppose, Republicans propose executing them when they meet their standards for being a human being
You KNOW Fungy is no more capable of counting up to a hundred, much less backwards from a hundred than he is holding his breath for the rest of the afternoon, but it would be fun watching him try. lamo
BTW What happened to your Nats yesterday???
FWIW I fully expect them to pummel Timmy today.
Now watch him throw a nono against you, and well I guess me as well as I plan on loading up on the Nats today. I may be too drunk to actually watch them after an afternoon of college football, but I've already put a bet in on them, I hope I don't bring a curse to your team by betting on them. lol
glad somebody was a perfect teenager, never met one that didn't make mistakes. congratulations
Some had girls and some had boys.
Seriously, the overall goal should be not making mistakes. Mistakes cost money!
This goes back to my comment that if?... One of the primary functions of public school is to teach structure the lesson plan should include the idea of not making mistakes. I don't think anyone will argue that PS is not designed to provide actual education. PS primary function is to teach kids how to live in a capitalist system.
The school system should teach the facts that people need to succeed in the world of capitalism.
Silly lib.
You would rather have teen pregnancies, unwanted kids and throw them in the streets. Let’s not even abortions.
The more you try to justify your dumb positions, the dumber you people look
I prefer paying for the birth control over the baby momma's and their baby daddies in prison, or for their off-spring who, many will grow up to fill our prisons!
Maybe the baby mamas and teen sex machines pay for their own birth control and babies! And maybe the baby mama daddy can even share some of the responsibility (if she knows his name). OMG a third possibility you guys never even imagined! In what kind of backward, bizarro world should people be responsible for their actions???
"should?" What is? You can talk until you're blue in the face, but that doesn't make what should be, or shouldn't be a reality. Take Catholic women as an example. They are commanded by their priests not to practice birth control, while most of them have practiced at one time or another.
Being Penny wise and Pound Foolish.
Repugnants are full of Penny wise and Pound Foolish idea. You idiots oppose every preventive ideas, you oppose a vaccine and would rather face an epidemic.
No wonder you are known as the party of Dumb fucks.
While we're calling each other names...
You dumb fucking fuck. How is giving out free birth control a preventative measure but personal responsibility not. You dumb stupid fucking shit. It is no wonder the party you vote for destroyed Detroit and is in the process of destroying America.
Repugnants are full of Penny wise and Pound Foolish idea. You idiots oppose every preventive ideas, you oppose a vaccine and would rather face an epidemic.
No wonder you are known as the party of Dumb fucks.
The liberal mind is "FREE." There is not such thing as "Free" birth control, even though the president himself has muddled the waters with that term.
Someone is paying for it.
First, 90% of the people getting "Free" birth Control can afford it. They just want to pay for something else, like cable TV a Smart Phone versus a flip phone or 100 other things.
Second I do not support "free" birth control because it is more expensive. The laws of economics apply to everything, so let's use carrots.
The cheapest way to pay for a product is to have the consumer buy it as much as possible. The amount of fraud for people buying carrots is statistically zero. One goes to the store, buys carrots and gets carrots.
The cost increases the more the payer is removed. First, the expenses of administering. If the gov pays you need an agency to buy carrots and instead of costing 50 cents, the carrots cost 60.
Second - Fraud. People bill the state for carrots not sold. The estimates of fraud in Medicare are huge, some Gov estimates are at 30%. Those are govt estimates.
Now carrots cost 70 Cents counting adminstrative costs and fraud.
FInally, I really don't know if birth control lessens teen pregnancies. The fact is that after 50 years of sex ed and birth control, with birth control widely available already, teen pregnancies have soared.
NOW YOU GET ME WRONG. I am not saying it should be banned. Just that it is more expensive and doesn't really work that well
Birth control has been around for very, very long time and it is very cheap. Besides, sound production principle state, as unit of production increases, the cost decreases exponentially.
No one said, the so called conservatives know any thing about anything. National Budget and Deficits are equal to balancing a check book, social policies are equal to what they force their families to follow, women’s body and reproductive decisions are controlled by a group of dumb curmudgeons.
World and the US has changed and it is changing more rapidly and this scares the hell out of you.
Yes. It has been around for years and is cheap. But that is not what I am talking about. Nor am I saying it shouldn't be widely and cheaply available.
The question is how to get it to people for the least amount
If it costs $12 per RX if you buy it yourself, if you add a level of government or insurance, someone is approving the payment, someone is sending it, etc. That adds to the cost.
Doctors will give a discount if you pay yourself rather than insurance. One less level of paper work. Every time someone handles a piece of paper it costs something
If you are buying it yourself, the payer always verifies the purchase. If there are levels, then there are scripts being filed that are not real.
That is why - Medicare has up to 1/3 fraud. A fake claim is submitted because the payer doesn't see the service.
Please understand, I am not talking about birth control. The same would apply to aspirin. Cheap and around for years. The cheapest way for society to pay for aspirin is have the person with the headache go to the store and buy it. If you add levels of paperwork and fraud, you double the price.-
You could buy insurance to cover every aspect of your car including windshield wipers. But the cheapest way is for you to pay for that yourself.
The same reason applies to B
"First, 90% of the people getting "Free" birth Control can afford it. They just want to pay for something else, like cable TV a Smart Phone versus a flip phone or 100 other things."
The study and the research was about teenage pregnancy and use of birth control. I'm certain some teens can afford their own birth control, however I doubt if it's anywhere near 90% And, we all know the drug companies are not giving out free birth control, so someone is paying for it, the tax payer in this case. I still say, as a tax payer, I'd prefer to pay it vs. all the consequences that are entailed with a baby momma.
Just because one is conservative, it does not mean he is looking for the economically cheapest means of doing something. Sometimes other principles outweight the finances.
I happen to believe in the death penalty. The fact that it may be more expensive does not factor if because I think it is right even if it is expensive.
Thus the fact that teen pregnancy may be more expensive than "FREE" birth control isn't an argument if you don't like "FREE" to start with
(Side note for other discussion: It really isn't more expensive in CA because without it you have to care for the prisoner for lirr.)
should never complain about having to food, house, and imprison babies that grow up unwanted, damaged and feel crime is the only way to get what they want.
Only a dumb ass wouldn't give all teenagers access to free condoms and birth control. Most of these children would never talk to their parents about sex.
No one is thinking of banning birth control. Find one GOP candidate in the last 30 years who said that.
There is a difference between banning and not paying for something.
The government does not pay for me to go to a movie. They are not banning me from going.
For over 40 years, almost every woman I know used birth control and the government wasn't paying for it.
The state not paying for it isn't taking it away.
ANd no nation in the world gives free condoms. There is no such thing as a free condom. Someone paid for it. The question is who.
immunizations given at state-funded health departments? Even if it's for the greater good of the whole?
I have no problem with health departments seeing teenagers for state-funded birth control. I have no problem for the uninsured adult to get a mamogram or pap smear on a sliding scale. I have no problem for recovering addicts to get state-funded treatment. I have no problem Med-Links doing blood work for the poor. I have no problem for the mentally ill to get medication and treatment state-funded. I don't mind my tax dollars helping people, because we will all need help at some point in our life, even hospice is 100% paid.
Now quit being a tight ass, I know those birth control pills are over-priced for those that have insurance. And condoms are cheap as hell. 
The real sorry ass people would never use birth control anyway, just as they always have kittens to give away and don't fix their animals. :
I am very much in favor of immunizations. However, I think that who ever can afford to pay for them themselves should do that and the govt can pay for those who can't
If you have the individual paying for himself when possible, it costs $X per shot. He takes the money to Rite Aid, gets a shot, no fraud, not paper work. I would not even insure it.
I have no problem for paying for when people can't afford it. I have never been talking about that.
It has nothing to do with birth control. I feel the same way about anything that is cheap or reasonable.
But when you talk about BC people go bongos.
I had a discussion with a lib friend. She agreed that shots and other routine cheap things should be paid for by the individual, but when it comes to BC she applies different economic theory.
I apply the same to BC as to aspirin, shots, bandaids, etc.
What I am talking about has nothing to do with BC per se. It is how to you provide medical services in teh most economical manner for socieyt.
for $20 for a flu shot should, I also feel that if a person has diabetes and needs help and they are working and trying their very best that they should get the help they need.
Birth control for teenagers is a medical issue too, because they need a pap smear and can't buy them over the counter. I am pretty sure they charge sliding scale for those that can afford to pay something. If a young girl had VD, wouldn't you want her to get checked out at a health dept instead of spreading disease? If a young girl fucked your son, wouldn't you prefer that she was on some kind of BC instead of tricking him into a monthly check for 18 years? Come on.