Politics and Religion

Nope! I didn't lie, I just changed my mind. ;)teeth_smile
mattradd 40 Reviews 714 reads
posted

I had every "intention" to stop.  You still haven't refuted my last points. And, I know someone who hasn't proved his point!  ;)

some refuse to admit to themselves or others, regarding FOX News. But, also when he says the truth is some where between FOX News and CNN and MSNBC ( I'll go even further and include Huffpo in the later group).    ;)



-- Modified on 8/15/2014 6:57:57 AM

JackDunphy612 reads

All networks are "biased". That's a given. "Fair and Balanced" means something completely different.  

Fox, in every show I have ever seen on there,  has the liberal viewpoint represented. OReilly, Hannity, Greta, Brett Baer, the hot chick after Oreilly, etc etc etc has liberals on every single night.

How often do you see a conservative on Olbermanns old show, Madnow, Sgt Schultz, Lawrence O'Donnell, Sharpton, etc? VERY rarely.  

And compare Fox vs MSNBC scandal wise. Its not even close. MSNBC, as I have documented before, has SO many scandals in its recent its absurd.

Fox has their paid liberals Juan Williams,Alan Combs, and Bob Beckle . But they're sacrificial lambs, waiting to be tee up and taken deep, or to be hit on like some pinata..
MSNBC has their conservative lambs but Michael Steele, Joe Scarborough,John Feehery are given a platform and aren't yelled at or talked over. Even Matt Kibbe has his platform and is allowed to speak his views.
Mo Brooks was on Chris Hayes and I think with Chris Matthrews. And that dude just kept on talking and wouldn't really allow a question to be directed at him.
Rachel Maddow does invite but really now....what's the benefit of a conservative going MSNBC, there's none.
I do watch Fox and MSNBC, just to hear both sides but I find FOX overbearing, especially Hannity and the way he gushes over Palin and Cheney...
Now Sharpton is a joke, I tuned him out long ago so I take nothing from him.
Oh, has anyone been to that O'Reily and Miller show? Do they do a Abbott and Castello thing, what's the attraction, really?

-- Modified on 8/15/2014 5:55:15 PM

I'll start tuning in daily  to Fox News if I become inclined to buy a parrot .   Like most mainstream TV media, Fox has 20 minutes of news in 24 hours.
    Huffington Post wins the Drama Queen award, big time.  

   In my opinion  you'd need  lily white thin skin, to call this horrific racism.
   
 http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/highlight/black-gop-candidate-in-florida-faces-horrific-racism/53b41adc78c90a28d7000248?cn=tbla

Posted By: mattradd
some refuse to admit to themselves or others, regarding FOX News. But, also when he says the truth is some where between FOX News and CNN and MSNBC ( I'll go even further and include Huffpo in the later group).    ;)  
   
 

-- Modified on 8/15/2014 6:57:57 AM

GaGambler992 reads

How many Democratic politicians have come out and slammed MSNBC?

I give Coburn credit for speaking common sense, Fox news is hardly "Fair and balanced" but why is the outrage saved for Fox, where is the outrage about the even more biased MSNBC, and to a lesser extent CNN, and the rest of the MSM? (Huffpo, definitely included)

-- Modified on 8/15/2014 9:34:02 AM

I can only share what is currently reported. I did a Google search on your question and all I came up with is a lot of criticism of Obama by MSNBC. There is plenty of GOP criticism of "Lame Stream Media" originally coined, I believe, by on of your favorites, Palin (joking of course).

So, I guess we'll have to score it, Republicans 1, Democrats 0, for the time being, or, Republicans ahead by a nose!   ;)

was more balanced when the world news followed the local evening news.  What they do now with 24/7 reporting looks like reality TV and like they don't have enough material.  I refuse to watch O'Reilly or Hannity, they won't let others talk and cut them off rudely.  My opinion is that those that watch Fox News tend to be more paranoid, and knowing every person that is murdered or wronged is not good for mental health.  I believe in short "just the facts ma'am" and read the paper online to form my own thoughts and I can choose my interest.

I once gave it a lot of thought.  Not healthy I admit.

JackDunphy926 reads

Isn't diversity better? That's what libs always tell me. Well, until it comes to diversity of political opinion...then...um, not so much.

And you don't get "just the facts" from ANY news source. All subject you to bias in one form or another.  

Where is the world news not following the local news? What city is that? Not saying you are wrong, just unaware of it.

not this 24/7 news we have now.  I remember when it started, I would be up in the middle of the night nursing my daughter during Desert Storm and could catch live WAR.  For the record, I am not a fan of any MSM news outlets for propaganda.

That's why I don't watch them, Chris Matthews or and of the Sunday morning news magazines other than GPS with Fareed Zakaria. He has people on his panels that represents all the sides of an issue, let's them speak, and doesn't allow them to get away with talking over each other. Anything short of that I do not consider to be an open discussion allowing for completing or conflicting view points.

overseas and sitting around watching the news. Once I"m in the states I don't watch the news. I can read much faster than those newscaster and reporters can talk.

JackDunphy877 reads

al Jazeera English???? Are they fking serious???

They are the best damn news reporting going on int he country. It's like the boots on the ground investigative journalism I still vaguely remember from my childhood. Before news in America was turned into pointless public interest stories, and talking heads spewing propaganda on Fox and MSNBC.

In other words, it's real genuine news. It's purpose really is to inform, not to change the way you think.

Of course Libs dig it.  

Posted By: JackDunphy
al Jazeera English???? Are they fking serious???

They had to get rid of the opening video of the stop watch.  

Too many of their viewers were diving behind the couch.

salonpas890 reads

.........I totally agree WW! Those two are the best right news channels right now.

Name just one. The biggest one ever. There must be some grand example. Sorry, can't hear you over the crickets.

RINOs say the stupidest shit when they think they can gain favor with the Left. I don't know what they're thinking. The Lefties then turn right around and call them racist...

Posted By: mattradd
some refuse to admit to themselves or others, regarding FOX News. But, also when he says the truth is some where between FOX News and CNN and MSNBC ( I'll go even further and include Huffpo in the later group).    ;)  
   
 

-- Modified on 8/15/2014 6:57:57 AM

JackDunphy779 reads

Would you like to guess what network broke the Bush DUI story just one week before the 2000 election?

Yep, that would be the very same Fox News.

salonpas971 reads

............and this was completely ignored by Fox News.

It’s a good thing that Representative Buck McKeon (R-CA) decided to retire after 11 terms in Congress. If he hadn’t, he would surely be facing a Tea Party primary challenge after announcing that he is satisfied that nothing more could have been done to prevent the deaths of 4 Americans in Benghazi.

McKeon is the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, which just last month issued a contradictory report of its findings on the attack on the consulate September 11, 2012.  The report faulted the President and State Department for not having beefed up the military presence in Benghazi prior to the attack, while at the same time finding that there were no troops in a position to respond rapidly enough, no “stand down” order was given and that all that could be done had been done.

“I think I’ve pretty well been satisfied that given where the troops were, how quickly the thing all happened and how quickly it dissipated, we probably couldn’t have done more than we did,” McKeon told reporters on Thursday.  “Now, we’ve made changes since then. We’ve got more Marine fast teams that we built up security around the world.”

“We have been working on this for a long time. We issued a preliminary report,” he said.  “At some point, when we run out of people to talk to, or we run out of people to talk to two or three times, at some point, we think we’ll have as much of this story as we’re going to get and move on.”

Of course Bonehead Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) does not agree with McKeon and says that the administration is still hiding the truth and should be made to admit to culpability

The title of your linked article was extremely dishonest. Also their video was edited in attempt to reflect a dishonest characterization of the event.  

Sen. Coburn never said he was not a fan of Fox News. He said there were certain shows on Fox that were not fair and not balanced. Duh. Really? That's a revelation for you that conservatives recognize that Fox has strongly opinionated shows?  He did not say that ALL of Fox is biased.  

Then there is the edit they made where he criticized MSNBC by name, but they cut that out, GEE WHIZ.

Dishonesty is a way of life for most one way supporters.
Once they see their  point of view in print or film they feel no need to verify.

  The truth  told, a majority of one way partisans are slow readers ,one way point of views simplify their life.  

 I wouldn't put matt in  the slow reader category, I see him in the sometimes  fooled by
  first print.

  In matt's defense he did include huffy post in his list of partisan news.  
  Coburn didn't give a name, guessing I will say, he's like me in one way, just say no to Hannity.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/tom-coburn-oklahoma-senator-fox-news

Posted By: ed2000
The title of your linked article was extremely dishonest. Also their video was edited in attempt to reflect a dishonest characterization of the event.  
   
 Sen. Coburn never said he was not a fan of Fox News. He said there were certain shows on Fox that were not fair and not balanced. Duh. Really? That's a revelation for you that conservatives recognize that Fox has strongly opinionated shows?  He did not say that ALL of Fox is biased.  
   
 Then there is the edit they made where he criticized MSNBC by name, but they cut that out, GEE WHIZ.

Your link, TPM, had the entire town hall, well almost. It also had the same edit as the OPs video so it looks like the OP's link wasn't the source of the edit. TPM did accurately summarize Coburn's comments, which of course the OP's did not. And yes, Hannity is Fox's most rabid host. I can't watch him either unless he happens to have a guest I'm interested in.


-- Modified on 8/16/2014 12:14:52 PM

Where in my post did I say that Coburn "said he was not a fan of Fox News"? Where does he say that he is "a fan of Fox News"?

Yes, valid point that the video was edited to cut out the MSNBC, but the story did report that is did include it.

Since you seem to be the one and only expert on what he actually said, what do you view as his main point?

I clearly stated the title of the article to which you linked was dishonest. I never said you were. Whether or not you endorse the actions of your link is open for individual judgement. But now you seem to be endorsing those actions since it obvious to all but you that the title is dishonest.

But, do you have anything to quote him as being a fan of Fox News?

You still haven't answered my question.

Your own link and video do it. It was their headline I took issue with. You are now playing your typical word games but in reverse. I never claimed he said he was a fan, but what does being a fan mean anyway? He clearly watches parts of Fox, maybe most of it with some exceptions; maybe just a little. But it does not matter, because you are now trying to change the subject by making stuff up and then claiming I need to defend your hyperbole. The title you linked to was dishonest. End of my story. You of course are free to continue.

I'm not playing word games, and I'm following your own logic. In reality, you have no idea how much he values Fox News. I suspect that if he indeed reads the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal every morning, as he reports, as I do, like myself, after having read both, I find no need to watch Fox News, so I can't imagine he finds much need to do so either.

To focus on the Headline as a statement of fact, which you deem false, you must prove he is a fan of Fox News. I on the other hand, as I imagine many people did, just viewed the headline as a turn of phase which meant that he had some criticism of Fox News; in this case specific segments of it, which indeed the story revealed to be true.

 

You still haven't answered my question. That's probably because, as your MO, you are straining at a gnat while swallowing a camel. The answer to my question is the camel!    ;)

You believe it's OK for them to fabricate a headline, offering no evidence to back it up and then you claim it's up to someone else to disprove their fabrication. A reader doesn't have to prove or disprove anything. It's up to the "news" published to make their own case, which they didn't even come close here. You can beg me to answer your question Ad nauseam. Your question is irrelevant here. No wonder you see no problems with the media today, at least the media you agree with.

-- Modified on 8/16/2014 6:10:28 PM

You are afraid to try and answer the question, because you can't see the camel in front of you. I'm not begging you for anything, but it's unbelievable that you can't state what Coburns main point was, in the video; the camel, because you got that damn gnat stuck in your craw; the headline.  You can't say something is fabricated without evidence. You are making the accusation, so it's you who must make the case. Do you have inside info on how much Coburn listens to and values Fox News as one of his sources of information? No!

"Your question is irrelevant here." Hmmm! Another one of your MO's, dedicating what is relevant or irrelevant to the discussion. I bet you get away with that a lot, in your personal life! Not! You do so here and make believe you've won the argument, but really you're not fooling anyone but yourself.

"No wonder you see no problems with the media today, at least the media you agree with."  Talk about being dishonest. If you've read my posts in this thread, you'd know what you just said it untrue.

I think we'd best call it a night before you spin any further out of control!   ;)

All I did was criticize your source because they can't back up their claim. You haven't shown any evidence they can because they can't.  

Yet all your energy is spent talking about the fact that I didn't say what you wanted me to say and I can't see what you thought I should see and I was focusing on just the headline. Well gosh. It was the headline that was wrong. Headlines are the only thing that some people read sometimes, present company included. You're just unable, for reasons that I won't speculate about at the moment, to admit that your source made an error. My original post wasn't even a criticism of you, not until you started defending them.

Maybe if we we remove the politics and personalities from this you'll wake up. I don't know which if any sport or sports team you follow but let's pick The Dodgers. Let's say you publicly state you can't stand Clayton Kershaw and you refuse to watch when he's pitching. Based on that statement someone comes along and now states that Matt's not exactly a fan of the LA Dodgers. I notice this statement and ask to be shown the proof that Matt doesn't like the Dodgers because none is on the table. At that point this person claims it's my responsibility to prove Matt is a fan. I say to them hogwash, not my job.

-- Modified on 8/17/2014 1:49:42 AM

The one you continually swallow.

"I don't know which if any sport or sports team you follow but let's pick The Dodgers. Let's say you publicly state you can't stand Clayton Kershaw and you refuse to watch when he's pitching. Based on that statement someone comes along and now states that Matt's not exactly a fan of the LA Dodgers. I notice this statement and ask to be shown the proof that Matt doesn't like the Dodgers because none is on the table. At that point this person claims it's my responsibility to prove Matt is a fan. I say to them hogwash, not my job."

On the face of it, this seems to be a reasonable and well thought out argument, except for one problem. It's not a problem that reveals itself to the untrained eye, but to someone who must use logic and scientific method in their work, it stands out immediately.

In your example, I follow the Dodgers. That's what's called a constant, and a reference point around your argument builds. In this case, your reasoning and argument is good. However, there is nothing in what you've produced to make the case, from your posts, that establishes Coburn is a follower of Fox News. You have to make that case before you can use your argument as it applies to the articles headline (a camel). You cannot just assume that to be true. To make it clear, I'm in no way defending the article or the authors use of the headline, that's an error in your interpretation (a gnat). I'm challenging you on: 1. your logic, and 2. how you got stuck on something so inconsequential (a gnat), when the real meat of the issue is Coburn's main point (a camel); we should not try to control what and how the press reports the news, but the press should leave out commentary when doing so, or if commentary is given, it should be clearly stated as being such.   ;)

I have no idea your views regarding Fox News; whether you watch it or not. But, your continual straining at the gnat makes it easy for me to imagine that it's you who feels a need to defend it. But, of course that's merely my interpretation of how you are coming across.  I could be wrong of course. And, I'm not much invested in being right or wrong on the issue. ;)

I have nothing invested in you being right or wrong and I'm not defending  Fox or CNN  but I'm LMAO at  you carrying on. Are you trying to convince Ed, yourself,  or us?  
 

 Your post headline was misleading .  
"GOP Senator Coburn says what most of us already know"
   How did you determine that?  

   I'll take the same liberty with most as you did.  

 
   The truth is, "most" of us are  uninformed.  :-D

   
The second sentence of your post was also misleading.  
"But, also when he says the truth is some where between FOX News and CNN and MSNBC"
   
   In the huffy post link you posted, he did not  mention  MSNBC. Where did you come up with that?

 
  For the record, my favorite news source when lights are out, MHz WORLDVIEW

  D.C.  – Washington WNVC 30.1  
 California -  Los Angeles KLCS 58.4  
 Colorado –  Denver CPT12 12.3  
  Direct TV 2183

I merely pointing out the Ed's logic is flawed. Neither you or him address that issue.

Regarding your points: "Your post headline was misleading .  
"GOP Senator Coburn says what most of us already know"
   How did you determine that?"

Everything I've read indicates to me that most people recognize that fair and balanced reporting is hard to come by. Those on the right view MSNBC, CNN and other mainstream media sources as being biased, while those on the left view Fox News and being biased. Many in both camps, if they are honest with themselves will be able to see acknowledge with their favorite news source reports a story that is biased, and/or is interjecting commentary without acknowledging doing so. In short, I am under the belief that Senator Coburn was stating what most everyone knows already. Again, this is my belief based on what I've read. If you believe otherwise, I can understand, but it wasn't my attempt to mislead anyone, just stating what I thought was common knowledge.

 
"The second sentence of your post was also misleading.  
"But, also when he says the truth is some where between FOX News and CNN and MSNBC"
   
   In the huffy post link you posted, he did not  mention  MSNBC. Where did you come up with that? "

 
From the Buzzfeed article referenced in the Huffpo article: "“The truth is somewhere in between the three,” Corbun said of MSNBC, CNN, and Fox News. (A livestream from local politics blog TheOkie cut out before Coburn made that comment.)

I guess one has to trust their report, since the video didn't tape it, or not. However, it seems to fit with the point Coburn was trying to make

So which is it? Are you dumber than a post or the most partisan person ever?

Again. I called out your linked source as having a fallacious headline. That was all. I don’t have to prove anything.

I pointed out that there was absolutely NOTHING in the body of their article that supported the headline. IT’S NOT THE READER’S JOB TO DISPROVE THE MEDIA. It is their job to provide evidence and facts to support their claims. They failed. BTW there were several far left media outlets that had an appropriate headline for this story.

Let’s try another analogy, a hypothetical example actually. Let’s say the headline read, “Senator Soandso Is A Pedophile” or more appropriately, “Senator Soandso Is Not Exactly Innocent of Pedophilia” and then proceeded to provide zero evidence supporting the claim. When I would then object to the headline, under your logic it would be my responsibility to show evidence that he is not a pedophile.

The other thing is, that due to your total inability to support the actual headline about Fox News you resort to declaring my focus on just the headline to be irrelevant (i.e. your whole crazy biblical gnat thing you have going on). I’m sure everyone watching your own little fiasco here is so pleased to learn that you believe that headlines to news articles are irrelevant.

Have a nice day.  

Carry on. Maybe buy yourself a camel

hoist by your own petard on.  "Say goodnight Gracie!"   ;)

This has to be the ultimate in humiliation for you. You are totally devoid of ideas so this is your last ditch obfuscation.

-- Modified on 8/17/2014 10:31:43 PM

"This has to be the ultimate in humiliation for you."

1. That's in your mind, not mine! The fact that you even imagine it, let alone say it speaks to the level of grandiosity you harbor.   ;)

2. I choose to read the Huffpo heading as a common turn of phrase, not a statement regarding the absolute state of Senator Coburn being a fan or not of Fox News. You can choose to do so, but I'm under no compunction to do so. The arguments you use to do so are full of holes, which you are blind to.   ;)

I have said to some of my family members, "I'm not exactly a fan of Olive Garden." This is no hypothetical example, like yours. However, some of my grandkids love going there. So, when one of them wants to go there, I attend with them, enjoy their company, find something on the menu that usually turns out to be agreeable to my tastes. I would never choose to go there, if I'm making the decision for myself. But, here's the rub; I'm no fan of any particular restaurant! Particularly when you compare it to sports fans. I have one sister who is a Seattle Seahawks fan, while the other is an Oakland Raider fan. Now, get in the same room with the two of them during a Seahawks-Raider game, then you can talk about fan-ship in absolute terms. Usually, in my experience, it's just a common turn of phrase, or statement that is not meant to be debated in absolute terms. You, demanding to do so says more about you than me.   ;)

"Winning and losing" than your proclamation to the contrary.

(Insert passive aggressive smiley face)

me explaining my point of view. I'm not asking or demanding anyone accept my point of view, just trying to clarify. It does show, despite the differences Ed and I have with each other, I respect him enough to try to explain my point of view, and say where I think his logic is flawed, which as you've probably noticed, I seldom do with you!   ;)

the same proclivities that i do.

the difference is he has the patience to explain it while i just cut to the chase and call you out as the smug dickhead you are.

(insert passive aggressive smiley face)

Go ahead, have a blast at the last word, I know you are compelled to have it.

Posted By: mattradd
me explaining my point of view. I'm not asking or demanding anyone accept my point of view, just trying to clarify. It does show, despite the differences Ed and I have with each other, I respect him enough to try to explain my point of view, and say where I think his logic is flawed, which as you've probably noticed, I seldom do with you!   ;)

Before I get started,  
1) "grandiosity I harbor?" Yea right. My arrogance just oozes off the pages of this board, LOL

OK now,
2) The fact that you acknowledge the headline can be interpreted in multiple ways demonstrates your real mistake. You see no problem when editorial content is added to a news story. It all makes sense now.

I'm extremely pleased that my objections says much about me. I'm proud to hold strong for standards in journalism. Your lackadaisical attitude towards the use of language has repeatedly caused problems in the past.

You still can't prove Coburn was a fan of Fox News, so your charge of the headline as being misleading holds no water.

"The title of your linked article was extremely dishonest. Also their video was edited in attempt to reflect a dishonest characterization of the event,"

It may not have been accurate according to how you interpreted it, but going from inaccurate to dishonest is to claim intent, which you have not proved.  
 
"Sen. Coburn never said he was not a fan of Fox News."

True, But, did the headline say that he said he was not a fan of Fox News? No! Did you ever prove he was?
   
"Then there is the edit they made where he criticized MSNBC by name, but they cut that out, GEE WHIZ."

Wrongo bongo by your own admission!

P.S. Was that your "Checkmate" post that got pulled?   ;)

Because you don't understand (maybe don't accept) how journalism works I can't help you any further.

No clue what you mean regarding "checkmate", but I do recognize someone that doesn't know when to resign.

I had every "intention" to stop.  You still haven't refuted my last points. And, I know someone who hasn't proved his point!  ;)

I think this is simply more evidence that you misuse the the language.  Do you really want to get your fiasco going again? I thought we had already figured out why we disagreed.

Now you are just repeating yourself and are attempting to quibble over the word "exactly". Not exactly a fan vs not a fan? Either way, the article demonstrated zero evidence he was "not exactly a fan of Fox News". Clearly he's not a fan of probably Hannity but that's not Fox News. (maybe THAT'S the point you don't get?)

It the context of my original criticism of HuffPo's headline, your "points" are not worthy of response as they are irrelevant. But, this dust up between Coburn and Fox came up previously, about 3 years ago. I don't know whether Coburn used the HuffPo term "fan". I would doubt it but I bet he came close enough. I was going to produce it for you earlier but like I said, it's not anyone's job to disprove someone's headline when they don't even come close to proving it themselves. You're able to look it up if you care that much. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other. All I cared about was their dishonest and misleading headline

"the language."  And, you can make a declaration on someone's intent, and are free to decide what is relevant or irrelevant to the discussion. You're sounding pretty high and mighty to me!  ;)

" All I cared about was their dishonest and misleading headline."

I'll give you a couple of examples. A friend says he'll stop by at 3 p.m. in the afternoon, but he didn't get there until 4 p.m. You can interpret his behavior as him lying, being dishonest and or misleading. But, you really can't say so whether he intentionally told you he'd do something, knowing he never intended to do so. At, least that's how I use the language, and if you are in the custom of calling your friends liars when they break a promise, you probably don't have many friends. Same goes for the guy who services your computer or car. He may say he'll have it ready by noon tomorrow, but if he doesn't, does that make him a liar, dishonest, misleading?

You still haven't proved that their headline was dishonest and misleading, and your attempts in arguing your case reminds me of a golden receiver I had. He'd get this look on his face, while chasing his tail, like 'I'm so cleaver,' thinking he was just about to catch his prey.

I won't make any promises whether I'll respond or not. I wouldn't want you to think I'm a liar if I change my mind!  ;)

I've acknowledged virtually all of your points throughout this. I've given answers to all of your questions, not the answers you were looking for but I addressed them.  

I've made several points that you've totally ignored or attempted to obfuscate which is not a new tactic for you. It's clear your little dance we've seen here has been for your own benefit and nothing else.

p.s. Your analogies really suck.

And, saying my analogies suck is a far cry from explaining in what way you see them as not useful, as I did with yours; which I showed blew your arguments and logic out of the water. And, no you've touched on very few of the points I've brought up.  ;)

throughout this process you've shed a tremendous amount of light as to why you do

No doubt you are hoping I'll read something into it, and share that with you. Nope! I know that game. You've played it often in this thread!    ;)

Perhaps if you weren't spending so much time looking for ulterior motives and paying more attention to what I've actually said throughout this fiasco, we would have ended in a totally different place.

Shame.

I'm quite confident that I have being paying attention to what you've said. And, where have I expressed you having ulterior motives. I did say your response had me imagining you may be defending Fox News, but I was looking for an ulterior motive. That was just an impression I had, which I admitted was just a part of my imagination. I did not declare it as a fact as you declare motives for me.

Point out where it seems I have been looking for your ulterior motives. I've just been refuting your logic!   ;)

Posted By: mattradd
. . . . And, where have I expressed you having ulterior motives.  
Point out where it seems I have been looking for your ulterior motives. I've just been refuting your logic
 
Here’s proof. Just one post ago you said this,
Posted By: mattradd
“No doubt you are hoping I'll read something into it, and share that with you.”
You’re absolutely accusing me of having motives other than engaging you in debate. You then go on to state you believe I’ve had this hope “often” this thread, yet this is the first time you’ve called me on it. This is some extremely revealing stuff matt. It furthers my claim you sometimes appear to have trouble with the language. You not only read people’s words but you impart a motive for why they write them.

This entire dispute revolves around your claim that I MUST refute the headline while I claim I have NO responsibility to do so. I have repeatedly explained my reasoning for my claim. You have never once given a reason why your claim is legitimate, nor have you addressed why my claim is incorrect. Your attempts to twist the analogies I’ve made do not address the underlying point that news articles must give at least one fact that support their headline conclusion. You came close to calling things quits when you reverted to your “common turn of phrase” defense. I suppose I should have let you off at that point but you couldn’t quite go all the way when you reverted to simply repeating that I HAVE TO PROVE the headline is wrong. I DO NOT and have explained why, but I might as well be talking to a wall.

Go ahead and keep repeating yourself if you like but try to have a nice day while doing so

"Perhaps if you weren't spending so much time looking for ulterior motives and paying more attention to what I've actually said throughout this fiasco, we would have ended in a totally different place."

In this statement you are accusing me, it sounds like throughout the thread, of looking for ulterior motives in your responses. Spending time and energy looking for them is not the same as expressing oneself when it seems the other person has said something, in the moment, that brings into question, in the mind of the hearer, whether the speaker may have an ulterior motive.

"You’re absolutely accusing me of having motives other than engaging you in debate."

You said: "throughout this process you've shed a tremendous amount of light as to why you do."

How is that engaging me in debate.? It doesn't even make sense. With such an empty confounding statement, why wouldn't I have a question in my mind as to what you meant, or what motive you might have, so I told you what I imagined.

"This entire dispute revolves around your claim that I MUST refute the headline while I claim I have NO responsibility to do so."

Yikes! That's exactly what YOU did. You refuted the headline. I didn't call on you to refute the headline. I just challenged you on your claim that they were being misleading and dishonest. That was you reading in to their motives, while not having any basis as to claim that Coburn was a fan of Fox News to begin with. If you  are going to be legalistic, and not accept the headline as a turn of phrase then you must stay with legalism, which means if you make an accusation, you have to prove it.

"I have repeatedly explained my reasoning for my claim. You have never once given a reason why your claim is legitimate, nor have you addressed why my claim is incorrect"

Where have you been? I suggest you re-read the thread!

These last two quotes reveal that you are indeed chasing your tail. I really can't add anything to this discussion.

What I said was that they never made their case. They never provided any evidence that their headline was true. If they can't or did not prove their headline is true then it is dishonest and misleading. This is a clear difference that you simply cannot understand. IMO the reason is because you are too busy attempting to determine motives rather than just reading and comprehending.

Indeed I was saying you were looking for motives throughout the thread. You admitted it yourself. I contend that by doing it, it affects your ability to effectively communicate.

My comments about my enlightenment of course have nothing to do with our debate about the headline. I was simply sharing my observations about your behavior and how my observations gave more clarity to your thought processes.

You haven't added anything to the headline discussion for about two days now, but you have added to my understanding of your thought processes.

"The title of your linked article was extremely dishonest. Also their video was edited in attempt to reflect a dishonest characterization of the event."

Sounds like refuting it to me!  See link below!  ;)

Keep digging!  It a long way to China, and I don't see how you'll ever get out of this hole otherwise!   ;

Claiming the headline is dishonest is NOT the same as refuting it. It could be very well be correct, but once again, that's not the point. They showed zero evidence that it was true. Without any evidence in the body of their article it was a dishonest thing to put in the headline.

Re-read the definition from Merriam-Webster. They call that refuting. I'll trust them more than you, so I'll go with their definition. ;)

If this was not a NEWS article I might have stated that this headline MIGHT be wrong. It could possibly be wrong. I don't know if it's true or false. But it's a NEWS ARTICLE. They made a claim yet offered ZERO evidence to support their claim, hence it is dishonest regarding the standards for journalism.

REFUTE:
:to prove that (something) is not true

I never proved the headline was false. I specifically stated I didn't need to nor was I going to attempt to prove as much. I stated HuffPo never proved or even offered proof it was true. Lack of affirmative evidence does not deny something.

 
: to say that (something) is not true

I never said the headline was false. I specifically stated I didn't need to nor was I going to attempt to prove as much. I stated HuffPo never proved or even offered proof it was true. Lack of affirmative evidence does not deny something.

 
Nothing close to nor variations of the words dishonest or mislead appear in the above Merriam definitions.

-- Modified on 8/21/2014 5:51:26 PM

Wouldn't something have to be untrue before it could be considered dishonest or misleading? Can something be dishonest or misleading if it's true?  ;)

I dare you to run your opinion, on how women argue, by all the women in your life!   ;)

And no, I'm not changing the subject. Still focused on you refuting having refuted the Huffpo headline. Just shows how lost you are!  ;)

It's so much fun watching you twist yourself into knots trying to wiggle out of the 'refute' definition.  Good luck with that.  ;)

I think you know that I haven't changed the subject. You're just hoping I will!   ;)


-- Modified on 8/22/2014 10:30:45 AM

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