This all sounds like marketing hype. I doubt these are any more effective than other versions of hollow point ammo. Plus I have questions about their potential tendency to jam as well as their accuracy.
BTW, regarding the penetration of walls you might be surprised to learn the most effective ammo round for penetrating a wall is the one the Hague prefers you use, the full metal jacketed round.-- Modified on 7/30/2014 9:02:39 AM
Most bullets apparently are made with lead, a metal so soft that it does not maintain structure integrity after impact. This new copper bullet – dubbed the Radically Invasive Projective or RIP bullet - splits into 9 piercing needles when it impacts the body, sending nine pieces of shrapnel into the body. And the solid copper body retains enough power to go through a cinder block.
But it effectively takes out all your major organs.
The Hague convention actually outlaws this type of bullet but you can buy it in the United States - $50 bucks for 20 bullets. Gun owners were so excited the manufacturer announced in January that it was sold out.
Is there any justification for this bullet being on the market? Let’s not get into the “self defense” argument here but focus on accidental shootings which I’d guess outnumber successful self defense shootings 100 to 1. There is almost no recovery from this kind of wound.
Can you imagine the carnage this bullet will create in the next mass shooting? Or in a “guns anywhere” state like Georgia? Is there a Second Amendment champion out there who will defend this one
Ammo like this allows ladies to down size from .45 to 9mm or from 9mm to .22 and not sacrifice stopping power.
Why do you hate women?
J/k
much like the cop killer bullets were in the 80's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teflon-coated_bullet
Some hollow points on the market break apart, typically into 3 or 4 pieces by design now. Many firearms guys don't like copper projectiles because of the loss of mass or density. Same reason hunters complained about steel shot for water foul hunting.
I guess the fact is people will always look for a better way to kill. Do I think I'll ever pay that price for 20 bullets? No way, if I cant stop someone with my 10mm kimber and a good hollow point at around $1 per round I need to practice more. The fact is if you get hit in the torso at less then 50yrds by a hollow point fired from a 45, 10mm or .44 mag to name a few you are more then likely not going to survive.
I don't think anyone who was shot at sandy hook survived, so this round would have had little impact there. Aurora it might have been a different story.
But it effectively takes out all your major organs.
The Hague convention actually outlaws this type of bullet but you can buy it in the United States - $50 bucks for 20 bullets. Gun owners were so excited the manufacturer announced in January that it was sold out.
Is there any justification for this bullet being on the market? Let’s not get into the “self defense” argument here but focus on accidental shootings which I’d guess outnumber successful self defense shootings 100 to 1. There is almost no recovery from this kind of wound.
Can you imagine the carnage this bullet will create in the next mass shooting? Or in a “guns anywhere” state like Georgia? Is there a Second Amendment champion out there who will defend this one?
Remember also that at least 3 bullets penetrated the theater wall and hit people in the adjoining theatre.
Seems to me that if he had used this RIP ammo most of those 70 would have died. Let’s hope you are right that some states will ban them. But we need a national ban or states like Georgia will continue to allow this kind of ammo to be used.
And there is still the Second Amendment question about whether states can ban this kind of ammo without infringing on the “right to bear arms.” The DC open carry ban was struck last week. So you can walk right up to the White House fence now packing a Glock with RIP ammo. The Secrete Service has got to be freaking right now.
Some hollow points on the market break apart, typically into 3 or 4 pieces by design now. Many firearms guys don't like copper projectiles because of the loss of mass or density. Same reason hunters complained about steel shot for water foul hunting.
I guess the fact is people will always look for a better way to kill. Do I think I'll ever pay that price for 20 bullets? No way, if I cant stop someone with my 10mm kimber and a good hollow point at around $1 per round I need to practice more. The fact is if you get hit in the torso at less then 50yrds by a hollow point fired from a 45, 10mm or .44 mag to name a few you are more then likely not going to survive.
I don't think anyone who was shot at sandy hook survived, so this round would have had little impact there. Aurora it might have been a different story.
But it effectively takes out all your major organs.
The Hague convention actually outlaws this type of bullet but you can buy it in the United States - $50 bucks for 20 bullets. Gun owners were so excited the manufacturer announced in January that it was sold out.
Is there any justification for this bullet being on the market? Let’s not get into the “self defense” argument here but focus on accidental shootings which I’d guess outnumber successful self defense shootings 100 to 1. There is almost no recovery from this kind of wound.
Can you imagine the carnage this bullet will create in the next mass shooting? Or in a “guns anywhere” state like Georgia? Is there a Second Amendment champion out there who will defend this one?
Well don't believe everything you read about the lethality of that ammo. If its a copper alloy that's pretty hard maybe but not a true copper bullet. It's not going to work out of a shot gun for sure. Handgun and rifle I'll still take a good hollow point copper coated lead bullet. They definitely aren't going to penetrate a wall with much force but without really looking into the ballistics its hard to say. I don't think you'll find any bullets that are 100% lethal and anything claiming to be I'll remain very skeptical of. Anytime you get shot at much less hit its likely you'll die if the person doing the shooting has any aptitude with a firearm and the firearm is bigger then a rimfire.
As far as the second amendment goes, banning a single type of ammunition is different than a unilateral ban on carrying firearms. DC was told to put laws in place for conceal and carry and allow it, until they do open carry is legal I believe. Not sure about that, haven't looked into it much but if they would have complied with earlier rulings and put laws in place instead of insisting on a ban the supreme court had found violated the 2nd amendment they wouldn't have this problem (again haven't read a whole lot on it).
"But that said, the only thing it really brings to the table that’s new (a big shallow surface wound) is done at the expense of delivering destruction where you want and need it – by putting the biggest possible bullet deep within the body. That’s a poor tradeoff. But the decision’s yours"
Seems to me that if he had used this RIP ammo most of those 70 would have died. Let’s hope you are right that some states will ban them. But we need a national ban or states like Georgia will continue to allow this kind of ammo to be used.
And there is still the Second Amendment question about whether states can ban this kind of ammo without infringing on the “right to bear arms.” The DC open carry ban was struck last week. So you can walk right up to the White House fence now packing a Glock with RIP ammo. The Secrete Service has got to be freaking right now.
I'm quite happy that DC's carry ban was struck down, but you still can't carry firearms onto federal gov't property. I doubt carrying in front of the White House will be allowed.
are brought to you by the EPA .
-- Modified on 7/29/2014 11:36:02 PM
to ensure the right to bear unloaded arms.
Do you have any idea of the caliber and lethality of the firearms at the time the Constitution was written?
Every bullet can kill. Hey, let's call all bullets "Rest In Peace" rounds. Kinda catchy and scary, huh? Then, we can appeal to all the folks with no analytical ability, to ban all bullets.
Funny thing... as a hunter myself, I want a bullet that will reliably and assuredly kill my prey. I don't want to wound it or cause it to suffer. I would have thought a bleeding heart would embrace that sentiment.
I guess what we need is more laws that further limit our choices, that further control and dictate every facet of our lives. Because everyone knows that those with ill intent always follow the law... or perhaps, the point is to create laws en masse as a means to bend others to our will - and avoid dealing with them as legitimate people with legitimate issues, concerns and opinions.
Mari, gun ammo stopped being made of lead a long time ago. Typically, only older calibers are still made of lead. We're talking about calibers like 32 S&W Longs. Guns aren't made with these calibers anymore. Most shooters hate lead ammo because it is a royal PITA to clean a gun using lead ammo. I'm not sure what kind of metal is used in the box of American Eagle 9mm I bought the other day, but it looks like brass to me.
"Self-defense", or hallow point ammo is nothing new. Yes, hallow point ammo is technically illegal on a battlefield. But the fact of the matter is that using hallow point ammo is a good idea for self defense. Furthermore, it's more humane.
Statistically, the number of cause of death from being shot is due to blood loss. The more holes in your body, the more blood loss. A standard full metal jacket round will enter a body's body and exit their body as well, leaving a small entry hole and large exit hole. That round can continue traveling and hit an innocent bystander that is standing beyond the intended target.
Hollowpoint ammo is different. They bullet fragments and flattens out, meaning it enters the body, but it usually doesn't exit the body. This creates a larger entry hole, but exerts more force upon the subject, stopping them in their place. Since it penetrates less deeply, you have less chance of organ damage. Hollowpoint ammo is more humane than full metal jackets.
Ammo the breaks apart and enters the body in many places is nothing new either. This is precisely what shotgun ammo does. A 12 gauge shotgun shell is filled with tiny pellets and spray out. This is why many people recommend using shotguns for home defense. It's pretty hard to miss. You can do far more damage with a single shot gun blast then you can with any single shot from a handgun. Yet, if you were getting home defense advice from Vice President Biden, he'd tell you to use a shotgun.
Well, let's take a look at just how much damage a shotgun can do. A shotgun doesn't just leave a hole. A shotgun makes hamburger.
-- Modified on 7/30/2014 9:54:55 AM
I've noticed that certain calibers you can't buy unless it's lead. I have a little revolver built around the turn of the 20th century that takes 32 S&W Long, and lead is the only option. The barrel on that little revolver is pretty fowl. I've never gotten it as clean as I'd like, so I haven't even shot it yet. For some calibers you can pick and choose, but for most standard rounds (380, 9mm, 40, 45) I don't see many lead rounds being sold. I'm sure they exist, I've just never seen them on the shelves.
Most bullets are still lead. Take a knife and try notching one. They have a copper jacket but are lead under. Some states might have banned all lead ammo but I don't think so. Cal. has banned lead for all hunting I think.
JHP or FMJ means a jacket of usually copper around a lead core. Lead rounds without a jacket you still see in .22 lr all the time. Other then that I haven't seen much recently.
This all sounds like marketing hype. I doubt these are any more effective than other versions of hollow point ammo. Plus I have questions about their potential tendency to jam as well as their accuracy.
BTW, regarding the penetration of walls you might be surprised to learn the most effective ammo round for penetrating a wall is the one the Hague prefers you use, the full metal jacketed round.
-- Modified on 7/30/2014 9:02:39 AM