Everytime I bash jesus christ the DEAD HUMAN BEING who may or may not have existed, dumb religious pukes somehow assume I'm an atheist. It's pretty damn obvious to me that Jesus was and is nothing but a popular carpenter and quite possibly just a hoax, but most certainly just a false deity created my man and most certainly just a copycat fairytale that just so happens to share the exact same attributes that are very similar to Egyptian / Greek gods that man has created thousands of years before. Real birth day of Jesus isn't even Dec 25 but randomly selected by the Pagans for convenience and somehow it's the same as other mythological egyptian / greek gods. Did you religious pukes know this birth day deal about Jesus???
There's nothing special about jesus just the same old mythological stories repeated. After all, why would an almighty deity cry to his father deity "My god My God why have you foresaken me????" as he croaked on the cross? That in and of itself is just extremely stupid. MY GOD WHY HAVE YOU FORESAKEN ME!!! BOO HOO. And I'm supposed to be god too. Boo hoo, my daddy foresaken me.
So just cuz a dude rejects YOUR false deity, why do religious pukes assume the rejector is an atheist?
As a man of science, I don't discount the possibility of a creator. But only science can ever PROVE it. That is ironically our only chance at seeing any proof. Not some random statistically irrelevant miracles that nobody can ever prove. It could take us centuries if not thousands of years but you and I both know it's gonna be science who will ever find proof of any existence of a deity. And as of now I'm pretty damn certain it isn't some jealous christian god who has a special list of 10 commandments or some son of god or any kind of biblical bs. just a creator who designed the universe intelligently.
If a creator exists, the creator isn't some insecure mofo who requires that we offer human or animal sacrifices every sunday or wants us to pray at dinner time cuz I'm pretty damn sure an intelligent creator is secure about himself that he doesn't need our fucking thanking prayers every single day. S/he's the one who created us, so why the fuck do we need to thank thank thank thank thank every god damn day?
Don't you provide for your kids without needing to hear from them thanks dad/mom thanks dad/mom every single day? After all, the LAW requires that YOU provide for them until their 18th birthday! FUCKen a, if you have a child, god damn it it's your RESPONSIBILITY.
Some comic book bible written by men is no truth. So I offer a toast, here's to science. Our only hope at knowing the truth, likely in the very distant future. 
"But only science can ever PROVE it. That is ironically our only chance at seeing any proof."
Science is the only proof you will accept. Unfortunately, science can't prove God.
In order for science to prove God, you first have to assume that God exists. If God doesn't exist, then there is no way to prove, by any means, God's existence.
So now we assume there is a God. By definition then, God created the universe out of human's definition of nothing ("Nothing") - there was god stuff before there was human stuff. By definition, the act of creation is beyond the knowledge of science.
Science can only know things that follow the physical laws that are knowable by humans. The act of creating the universe out of Nothing means that God acted outside the scope of human's ability to know. Ergo, you can't prove, using things knowable by humans, that God exits.
To put it another way, if you only accept human knowledge as proof, then you will accept nothing beyond human knowledge, ergo, you will never find anything that is not beyond human knowledge, and thus a proof of God.
Flatlander's analogy: Let's assume there is a 5th dimension that God occupies, and God keeps the 5th Dimension separate from the 4 that humans exist in (no way for humans to interact with the 5th Dimension). Then, there is no way to prove anything about the 5th Dimension (God) using what we know about our 4 dimensions.
"Not some random statistically irrelevant miracles that nobody can ever prove." - So, what would constitute a statistically relevant miracle? If you could go back 10,000 years in a time machine with a pair of walki talkies, would that be proof of God to people back then? How about if you timed your enchantment right to block out the sun? Technology can look like miracles. You can always argue that something was not a miracle.
Einstein: What about quantum theory - God does not play dice. From our perspective, quantum mechanics is random. Maybe in God's world quantum mechanics is deterministic (5th Dimension's effect on our 4 dimensions). However, you will never be able to prove it. Could the seemingly random process be the "statistically relevant miracles" that we are never able to explain? You can't prove that the randomness is caused by any human knowable process. How could you ever prove (to your satisfaction) that they were caused by God
Science is not the end all and be all, considering how little we know, and how vast the Universe truly is. But what it DOES, is provide the opportunity to respond in a rational way to the ridiculous claims of Religion.
Ask someone why they believe, they say "I have Faith". Where's the Proof? Don't need proof because they have Faith. How fucking ignorant.
Religion is just an accepted form of control by the few over the many. Because they Speak for God.
Religion is how one human being justifies killing another human being. Because God told him so.
Religion is a train wreck, because in TRUTH there's nobody in the drivers seat. God is a Lie.
There is no God, there is only Dogma, a need for the masses to be told what to do, and a few opportunistic con artists who claim to be Men of God.
Whether you are a Jewish Rabbi, a Christian Minister, or an Islamic Imam - as far as I am concerned, you represent a lie.
None of the one sided rationalizations, exhortations of Faith, or claims of Miracles can alter my perspective that its all a lie. The Longest Con.
True! However, spirituality is not. To the degree it becomes dogma is the degree it has become a religion. And, a religion is more a form of government, which is shown throughout history, they were the governmental body of most kingdoms or countries, or at least an integral part of them. However, true and pure spirituality is an inquiry into and study of the intangibles, whereas science is the inquiry into and study of the tangibles.
I can live with this distinction
Cheers!
Posted By: mattradd
... true and pure spirituality is an inquiry into and study of the intangibles, whereas science is the inquiry into and study of the tangibles.
Do you think dark matter and dark energy are tangible? Them things pass right through normal matter. Definitely not tangible
How about branch of psychology?
the very point is that God CANNOT be proven to exist or not exist it.
You said: (Ask someone why they believe, they say "I have Faith". Where's the Proof? Don't need proof because they have Faith. How fucking ignorant.)
What if someone instead said, "I have no proof, particularly in the manner in which you might find satisfactory, that's why I'm left with "belief, and faith"?
Would you have a problem with that?
Exactly how many people have you queried along those lines to reach your conclusions?
I understand that from your extremely limited and narrow experience you find it to all be a lie. But that proves absolutely nothing because of it's limited to what YOU know, see, and have experienced.
I personally know scores of people who are absolutely selfless in the way they conduct their lives and the effect they have on humanity. I know very wealthy people who spend tons of spare time and personal fortune doing things like flying doctors into remote locations of Central America and spend months at a time when they could be heaping more wealth upon themselves, instead they spend their time and money "doing God's work".
I know people who spend a couple of months a year, and have for years, establishing and maintaining orphanages and medical clinics in the most destitute, disease ravaged hellholes in Africa. Places so far off the beaten path it takes days to drive to. Have you ever spent any amount of time getting to know someone like that and understanding their motivations?
I totally get, and agree with your criticism about church dogma and SOME of it's leaders and followers alike. I also get your mind is made up based on your life's experience. Just don't make the same mistake you criticize others of, and that is thinking that what you know, think, feel, is the alpha and omega. Arrogance is arrogance, no matter the side of the fence youre on
views regarding God vs. how you treat others, here on this board, with disdain, contempt and ridicule. Reading your post, I could imagine that we've been in much the same social circles with the affluent who do "God's work." Yet, none of the people that I know, in such circles, treat anyone like you do here. Ya, many of them have strong political views. Some of them, in spite of their generosity are still racist or bigoted. But, the one's that I know still treat others with the respect that they wish for themselves. Do you not see how your spirituality is polluted by how you treat others; even those of us on this board?
...can he possibly judge Gonzo to have an "...extremely limited and narrow experience." He knows nothing about Gonzo or his life experiences yet he judges him and looks down his nose at him.
Judge not, that ye be not judged --Matthew 7:1
Swear I read that before. Here is the thing BP you and Matt are holding dickbug to his belief, not your belief.
Can't you see how crooked that logic is? You've become the Bible thumper, in this equation.
I'm judging you based on my belief. You probably think the thumpers are the hypocrites, no your, and Matt's argument is hypocritical.
child of Holocaust Survivors, classically trained in the Chassidic way to become the Rebbe of a community (High Rabbi... no pun intended). I chose to walk away from formal ordination, and as a result, was disowned disinherited and religiously banned in a process called Cherem (Censure) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herem_(censure)
But it did not erase all the knowledge and studies I had completed. It led to a lifetime obsession with finding the truths behind the lore, myths legends and other Biblical proclamations of Divine Intervention. Ask me about the Ten Plagues of Egypt sometime.
But not too many people are interested in Ancient history. Especially on a hooker board.
I will stake my claim to having a little more experience and exposure than Needledick TBF would believe.
I would also say the following: I have respect for the individuals right to believe the way they choose. I lose that respect when they start telling me their way is the right way and the only way to Salvation.
That's when I call Bullshit.
Cheers
Posted By: JohnyComeAlready
Swear I read that before. Here is the thing BP you and Matt are holding dickbug to his belief, not your belief.
Can't you see how crooked that logic is? You've become the Bible thumper, in this equation.
I'm judging you based on my belief. You probably think the thumpers are the hypocrites, no your, and Matt's argument is hypocritical.
... it didn't make sense, here is the post, now I see what you said.
There are other possible answers besides blind faith in a non existent diety, or blind faith in the non-existence of such a deity.
I say to you, there are other options that people who claim faith and a belief in god, such as yourself, simply would be unable to wrap their heads around the concept, let along be able to discuss it rationally.
to wit... my blessed mother was a deeply religious woman. When I told her I did not believe in god or the torah as being divinely written, she immediately assumed it was because i now believed in jesus. She simply could not accept the notion of not believing in any form of deity or superior being. Of course theres a god! he made the world 5774 years and 5 1/2 months ago! Right.
Cheers!
---------------
The thing about quotes on the Internet is that you can not confirm their validity.- Abraham Lincoln
Your Mama, assumed you accepted Jesus Christ. :-
Hmmm... no..... my point was that my mother could not wrap her head around the notion i did not believe in God. My rejection of Jewish Dogma was beyond her ability to understand. Ergo, it led her to assume I now believed in the Christian version because everybody has to believe in God in order for their lives to have meaning. My life experiences have taught me differently.
On a side note, I'm flattered you remembered my comments, pro or con.
Cheers
Posted By: JohnyComeAlready
... it didn't make sense, here is the post, now I see what you said.
There are other possible answers besides blind faith in a non existent diety, or blind faith in the non-existence of such a deity.
I say to you, there are other options that people who claim faith and a belief in god, such as yourself, simply would be unable to wrap their heads around the concept, let along be able to discuss it rationally.
to wit... my blessed mother was a deeply religious woman. When I told her I did not believe in god or the torah as being divinely written, she immediately assumed it was because i now believed in jesus. She simply could not accept the notion of not believing in any form of deity or superior being. Of course theres a god! he made the world 5774 years and 5 1/2 months ago! Right.
Cheers!
---------------
The thing about quotes on the Internet is that you can not confirm their validity.- Abraham Lincoln
Your Mama, assumed you accepted Jesus Christ.
I'll give the Jews that. At least Jews don't shove their group prayers down my throat when we go to dinner.
Jews I can get along with just fine cuz we leave each other the hell alone at the dinner table, at least the ones I hang out with don't shove their practices. I guess it might have something to do with the fact that I look asian and vast majority of asians are not jewish.
Christians, not so much. They actually have the conceit to think that doing a group prayer to THEIR god is OK by everyone at the table. Christians love to shove. Maybe it stems from the fact that they think Romans shoved a nail down jesus's hand so they feel the need to shove their religious practices down everyones throat too.
Now here's an irony for you...
Posted By: Drunken Asian
I'll give the Jews that. At least Jews don't shove their group prayers down my throat when we go to dinner.
Jews I can get along with just fine cuz we leave each other the hell alone at the dinner table, at least the ones I hang out with don't shove their practices. I guess it might have something to do with the fact that I look asian and vast majority of asians are not jewish.
I'm actually part Chinese (1/16). My Great-grandmother was an Oriental Jew born and raised in the (at the time) small but vibrant Jewish community in Shanghai. My great grandfather was a traveling merchant and sometime scholar, they met, married and she went back with him to the Ukraine where my Grandfather and Father were born
Actually I answer to "Yellow Jew" as well, but keep in mind that whenever some yells "Hey Asshole!!!" my head immediately swivels as I naturally assume they are talking to me. lol
I would have never guessed you're from a jewish family.
I think we're completely on the same page regarding religion. I grew up from a christian family being taught how to think and crap like that until I discovered that science brings me far more miracles and cure to diseases than any dumb $2 prayer book. I read the bible cover to cover several times, cuz I was told that's what I need to do in order to be a good person, ROFL. Ok, being a kid I read that bull shit more times than I care to know. But the more I read it the more flaws and questions I find. Of course when I bring a list of flaws in logic and inconsistencies / falacies to the pastor, it got to a point where he was giving me BS responses: "you can't read it like a scientific book but with faith".
Well, fucken a, why didn't I think of that? NOT. Gradually, I became fully convinced my science text books talked about the truth far more convincingly than that book from the invisible man up in the sky. Science performs double blind placebo tests and looks for multiple evidence before claiming a theory to be true. Religion relies more on blind faith and not a shred of convincing evidence.
Question is, how come you're still reading the old testament as recently as of last week? Are you still attending church/temple on sundays or studying the holy book for whatever reason? lol If so, how do you get along with people who are constantly shoving their practices and traditions down your throat?
It's been many years since I stopped going to church altogether. I do sometimes still go to family events that take place at a church and I have friends who are religious. There was actually a point in my life where I got more involved in that church environment: I was chasing a girl. Well, I got with the girl and it turns out she's not at all a thumper although somewhat religious.
I've made many friends at the time under-cover (as a nonbeliever) but getting involved at church was a complete utter disaster. It got to a point where all I'm doing was defending myself from people who just can't leave me the fuck alone when they discovered that I am not a believer of their faith. Rumors spread across those who know me and they somehow made it their mission to try and 'convert' me. ROFL I sent out a "nice knowing you all but good luck with that", changed my number, and just left. My mission was accomplished anyway (to get the girl). In fact, getting too involved was what completely drove me away from them and I have not looked back. Not a single thing I miss.
I study the old testament not for any religious observance, but as part of a larger process of correlating secular history with biblical events, then dissecting the data to separate fact from dogma.
you've heard the phrase "all legends have a basis in fact". So think of it in terms of archaeology; like our illustrious but fictional Indiana Jones, my focus is on determining the facts behind Biblical history.
The first 18 1/2 years of my life were spent in deep and intense study of the Old Testament, the Mishnah and Babylonian Tractates, and their attendant commentaries, including first person histories written as long as 3000 years ago. Many of these books or "sephorim" were never translated into English, and are not commonly found in your local community synagogue. Mostly found in the libraries of the Yeshiva's and Rabbinical Colleges within Orthodox Jewish sects and enclaves, these tomes and first person histories remain the purview of those who have been taught and are fluid in the ancient languages. I happen to be one of those strange anachronisms in this day and age.
Like I said earlier, hit me up about my POV on the Ten Plagues of Egypt sometime.
How do I deal with the religious zealots? With a kind but firm hand. It's like putting on an old pair of comfortable shoes that no longer have soles. Yes, the pun is intentional.
I go to a synagogue twice a year, where I say the Kaddish (memorial prayer) to honor the memory of my parents on the anniversary of their deaths. I do this not for any spiritual or religious comfort, but because I made a promise to do so. I honor that commitment because it is the last, and only way I can still show my love and respect to their memories. doesn't matter if *I* believe, my parents did. And at the core, I still consider myself a member of the Tribe, and a Disciple of Hillel, which has nothing to do with religious dogma, and everything to do with the interactions between people.
Since it is pretty obvious you and I are the only ones having a real conversation at this point, perhaps you'd like to take this out of the cesspool, and into email.
[email protected] --- hit me up if you want to discuss this further
Look who's quoting the bible you big phony assed bigot!!!
I don't give fuck 1 about Matt the Thumper projecting someone else's qualities (NOT HIS OWN MIND YOU!!!!) onto me. I never claimed them for me so it's IMPOSSIBLE for me to be hypocritical.
BIG WHIFFF!!!!!!!! LMAO at your kneejerk bullshit!!
Doc is 1 of 7.2 billion people on this planet. I call that EXTREMELY LIMITED AND NARROW.
Now go to your corner and fuck yourself!! You got it coming!!!
of these people's lives? Doubt it!! And even then, what's that got to do with me?
""the one's that I know still treat others with the respect that they wish for themselves""
You are describing them, how do you know how they behave privately? (maybe you've got some BibleThumping child molesters in your circle).... You really don't know do you, otherwise it wouldn't be private, would it?
And why are you suggesting I live up to OTHER people's standards? What about yours?
You cleverly avoided claiming these traits for yourself, is that because you don't possess them? Or is it because you might be exposed as a hypocrite?
I treat people they way they treat me. I don't whine, I don't kiss ass. You should try it!!! And while you're at it, how's that log coming?? Or are you perfect?
You asked 12 questions in your post; all 6 of them or any one of them or more of them could be answered with a yes or no!
Cheers!!!
Posted By: mattradd
You asked 12 questions in your post; all 6 of them or any one of them or more of them could be answered with a yes or no!
i do not criticize peoples right to believe as they choose, I criticize those assholes wbho try to tell me they are right and I am wrong, hat my life is not complete without Jesus, or that all my problems will go away if i just put on T'fillin and pray to God.
Bullshit. I SAY THREE TIMES BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT!
Do you know what common thread runs through all three religions? All three will give explicit instructions on the best way to kill your enemies children. Bash their heads against a rock, behead them in front of their mothers, or simply feed them to wild animals.
Guess which is Jewish, which is Christian and which is Muslim?
And does it matter?
Needledouche, my issue is not with the individuals who believe they are meant to do good works in the name of a deity, such as the examples you gave. It's a good thing somebody is, because there sure aint no god doing it.
I believe Religion to be the source of the worlds ills, and a major excuse for people to perform Evil, and always in the name of God. Or Allah. Or Elvis. Or Jerry Garcia. There's churches for those guys too.
and what about former wrestler Mick Foley? One of the most common signs at a WWE promotion is always MICK FOLEY IS GOD!
Easier for me to believe George Burns was playing in character.
My life experiences have given me all the proof *I* need that the God I was taught about is a fabrication, a myth, a lie. As far as I am concerned, that's good enough for me. I'm not trying to foist my opinion on anyone. I speak for myself.
"I understand that from your extremely limited and narrow experience you find it to all be a lie."
This statement however, is so far off base... "limited and narrow experience" dude, you're the one who whiffed. Whens the last time you studied the Old Testament in the original language? for me it was last week. When's the last time you discussed the dynamic differences between the King James version of the New Testament, and the Greek version aka the Septuagint. for me, that was last month.
Observing from a distance while engorging ones self on Fox News and Rush Limbaugh is not what I would consider to be intellectually stimulating when it comes to discussions of religious veracity.
Praise the Lord and pass the butter. Those ignorant people I speak of, are my blood kin. Limited exposure, my fat Jewish ass.
And whatever happened to Bill Kile? Needledick was so much more fun back when BK was pulling those strings.
ok enough of this, I got to ride.
but I have to say this, no one needs religion to do the devils work.
... and no body but yourself can "teach" you what to "believe", it dose not work that way.
How can Needledick possibly judge Gonzo to have an "...extremely limited and narrow experience." He knows nothing about Gonzo or his life experiences yet he judges him and looks down his nose at him.
Judge not, that ye be not judged --Matthew 7:1
Minus the back patting.
Posted By: BigPapasan
How can Needledick possibly judge Gonzo to have an "...extremely limited and narrow experience." He knows nothing about Gonzo or his life experiences yet he judges him and looks down his nose at him.
Judge not, that ye be not judged --Matthew 7:1
Here is the thing BP you and Matt are holding dickbug to his belief, not your belief.
Can't you see how crooked that logic is? You've become the Bible thumper, in this equation.
I'm judging you based on my belief. You probably think the thumpers are the hypocrites, no your, and Matt's argument is hypocritical.
The argument isn't what you think it is. I get what you are saying, but according to your own argument, your source(the Bible) is a farce in your eyes.
You guys somehow believe this nonsense, it's the same BS that Bill Maher tries to argue. ...it doesn't work when you use Christianity, as an argument against a Christian , from a non-Christain perspective.
He has HIS standard and is "puzzled" that I don't live up to it.
Well that's because that's HIS standard, not mine!!!
And of course, BigNarc has his nose up matts ass so far he can't see (or more likely) doesn't care that it's matty being the thumper!!
They are what they hate!!
Must suck, eh?
Lmao
Posted By: JohnyComeAlready
Minus the back patting.
Posted By: BigPapasan
How can Needledick possibly judge Gonzo to have an "...extremely limited and narrow experience." He knows nothing about Gonzo or his life experiences yet he judges him and looks down his nose at him.
Judge not, that ye be not judged --Matthew 7:1
Here is the thing BP you and Matt are holding dickbug to his belief, not your belief.
Can't you see how crooked that logic is? You've become the Bible thumper, in this equation.
I'm judging you based on my belief. You probably think the thumpers are the hypocrites, no your, and Matt's argument is hypocritical.
The argument isn't what you think it is. I get what you are saying, but according to your own argument, your source(the Bible) is a farce in your eyes.
You guys somehow believe this nonsense, it's the same BS that Bill Maher tries to argue. ...it doesn't work when you use Christianity, as an argument against a Christian , from a non-Christain perspective.
You read my post to you again, in light of YOUR response to the previous post.
Then consider what I REALLY said.
"""I understand that from your extremely limited and narrow experience you find it to all be a lie.""""
Are you aware there are presently 7.2 billion people on this Earth? Can you really claim all your experiences and all you book reading give you any kind of a leg up on the rest of humanity? YOU KNOW THE TRUTH????
Kind of arrogant dontcha think?
"""Whens the last time you studied the Old Testament in the original language? for me it was last week. When's the last time you discussed the dynamic differences between the King James version of the New Testament, and the Greek version aka the Septuagint. for me, that was last month."""
I've never read a single page of any of those books, why the fuck would I? What difference would it make? You're the one that continues to finds lies and bullshit so why on EARTH would you keep reading? have you ever read The Road Less Traveled? Sermon on the Mount by Emmitt Foxx?
I don't call your experience "narrow and limited" as a put down but rather a statement of FACT. I would easily say the same thing about myself!!! But you are making the claim that God is a lie based on YOUR experience and all the crap books you've read. Well, what if the vast majority of the 7.2 billion earth inhabitants have had different experiences that lead them to believe their is a God?
You are right and THEY are full of shit? Isn't that the very attitude you claim to despise?????
Here's the difference Needle...
My argument is not with what anyone else believes. MY issue is when those people tell ME what *I* am supposed to believe especially when it goes contrary to what I have studied and learned by reading the source material in its original form. Before the accidental erroneous translations, intentional deceptions and downright fabrications designed to steer the masses in a particular direction.
Which is more arrogant? Me telling people I think they are full of horseshit? Or Evangelicals telling me the only way to salvation is through accepting Jesus Christ? An entity that MY studies have shown me to be a fabrication and myth based on an aggregate of several real people who lived during that time period? A fabrication developed by the ruling body of the Roman Empire at the time in order to shift their power base and control structures from the military, to the Clergy. The lie was told so well, it gave new life to the Holy Roman Empire - now re-branded as Catholicism, ruled from the Palace known as the Vatican located in ... wait for it... ROME, and led by the new Caesar. re-branded as the Pope.
You can believe what you want. I believe religion and dogma to be Bullshit.
I'm not preaching, I'm stating MY perspective, and MY perspective only. I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm just sick and fucking tired of people who don't know what the back of their hand looks like telling me how I am supposed to think, and what I am supposed to believe.
i'm not trying to convince you you are wrong, I'm telling you that you have no right to tell ME how to think or believe. What works for you, is poison for me.
Am I arrogant? Oh yeah, its one of my biggest character flaws. But I make up for it by being a good guy and helping little old ladies cross the street whether they wear a star of david or a cross around their neck. That's not religion, its simple courtesy.
Now give me the simple courtesy of telling me I have the right to my belief systems.
we are in most likely complete agreement. i need time to re-read and think about what you wrote before commenting and perhaps re-phrasing my position. but you are ABSOLUTELY entitled to your beliefs.
right now, i'm out the door.
cheers!
Posted By: DoctorGonzo
Here's the difference Needle...
My argument is not with what anyone else believes. MY issue is when those people tell ME what *I* am supposed to believe especially when it goes contrary to what I have studied and learned by reading the source material in its original form. Before the accidental erroneous translations, intentional deceptions and downright fabrications designed to steer the masses in a particular direction.
Which is more arrogant? Me telling people I think they are full of horseshit? Or Evangelicals telling me the only way to salvation is through accepting Jesus Christ? An entity that MY studies have shown me to be a fabrication and myth based on an aggregate of several real people who lived during that time period? A fabrication developed by the ruling body of the Roman Empire at the time in order to shift their power base and control structures from the military, to the Clergy. The lie was told so well, it gave new life to the Holy Roman Empire - now re-branded as Catholicism, ruled from the Palace known as the Vatican located in ... wait for it... ROME, and led by the new Caesar. re-branded as the Pope.
You can believe what you want. I believe religion and dogma to be Bullshit.
I'm not preaching, I'm stating MY perspective, and MY perspective only. I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm just sick and fucking tired of people who don't know what the back of their hand looks like telling me how I am supposed to think, and what I am supposed to believe.
i'm not trying to convince you you are wrong, I'm telling you that you have no right to tell ME how to think or believe. What works for you, is poison for me.
Am I arrogant? Oh yeah, its one of my biggest character flaws. But I make up for it by being a good guy and helping little old ladies cross the street whether they wear a star of david or a cross around their neck. That's not religion, its simple courtesy.
Now give me the simple courtesy of telling me I have the right to my belief systems.
We are in 100% agreement.
Good to know there are folks here with some brain. :
as for bk, he died in the anti-conservative inquisition
i seem to recall there being quite a bit of collateral damage
hell that no fury like a sanctimonious liberal
RIP BK - He wasn't as bad as he wanted people to think he was
We even talked on the phone a few times about important matters
Just like I can't prove that God exists, you can't prove that God does not exist.
Just like there is no system of mathematics that is complete without axioms (assumptions), you can prove God or Not God one way or the other another, with some assumptions. However, the other side does not accept the assumptions, hence the proof is invalid.
All science knows is the black box that we live in. There is no way for science to know what is outside the box. Science may be able to prove that God is not required (which is different from does not exist) inside the black box, but that proves nothing about what is outside the black box, how the black box was crated, or whether God has chosen to limit God's interaction with the black box.
but rejecting the fairy tales spun by the major (and minor) religions that they somehow know the "one true path" is not the same as the lengths DA seems to go to "prove" that there is no god.
I don't claim to have the answers for the very exact reasons you have cited on this thread. IMO no one has the answers, nor are we ever likely to get them. I can live with that. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep asking, or searching for the answers, we will most likely learn an awful lot along the way, but to have the arrogance that we will even be able to grasp the truth even if it were presented to us is a little bit like religion itself, I will grant you that.
I have no ability, nor even the desire to disprove the existence of a "God" but that doesn't mean that I can reject the Christian version (Or Muslim, Jewish, et al) as being patently ridiculous and not really even worth considering as a rational opinion, but that certainly doesn't mean that I discount the possibility of "something" having created us and the universe we live in.
I have clearly stated I'm not an atheist although I reject all man-made religions / myths.
Science did disprove several obvious ancient mythological gods by debunking certain myths that people believed to be act of god, explaining away "miracles" and turning them into "understandables".
Seems to me that the study of universe / big bang research are all attempts to understand more about intelligent design (a universal creator or the multi-universe itself). Big bang evidence kinda proves that the universe had a beginning and had to be created out of something. Energy theory explains that the whole universe can be created out of nothing (negative energy + positive energy = zero energy) but the fundamental laws and inner workings of it were intricately designed intelligently.
But I firmly feel that Jesus or allah or the invisible man up in the sky have absolutely no part in it tho.
If science can show that these fundamental laws too can be built out of nothing, then I will likely change my stance to that of an atheist. That's how science works, imo, we don't try to explain away the obvious by cooking up crazier and more complex theories but conclude that the simplest explanation is the truth. This was the case when Geocentric theory was dominant, they tried to explain that planets revolve in some complicated zig zag and strange orbits. of course the elliptical/circular orbits are the far simpler answer and hence observed to be the truth.
BTW: Science was created by religious persons on their quest to know more about the hand of God
Now that does not equate to religion evolving with science.
Most of the bitching over science on this board, is because government doesn't want fund any science, that business isn't going to profit from.
Posted By: gsee60606
BTW: Science was created by religious persons on their quest to know more about the hand of God.
... if you believe in love, you believe in God.
... if you believe in God, you believe in love.
The concept of God is easier for me to understand, than the concept of love.
Your statement does not surprise me in the least.
and puts you one step closer to your coveted SPOTY
Why are you guys so miserable?
You, DA, WW, Doc, and the others who bitch and moan about religion. You guys should start a club, and meet on Sunday morning. LMA
-- Modified on 6/21/2014 11:30:30 AM
Every new research leads to getting closer to the answer. You're completely wrong that science will never prove such and such. It proved that sun is not some mysterious being. There are many religions that spawned from the sun. Science debunked the glorious god behind these sun gods. Science proved that earth revolves around the sun and that we aren't the center of the universe as Catholics once claimed. Each step leads closer to the answer.
Also what do you think cosmology is studying? The universe is knowable even if it's not multiple dimensions our computers have no trouble doing calculations in multiple dimensions that humans can not in their head. You'd be surprised how far science has come.
They have proof that there was once a giant expansion and a cooling state (ie: big bang). The findings are considered one of the most accurate mathematical predictions that fit the expected observations. Only an illiterate idiot couldn't see that this observation is the remnant of a big bang
How about schrdodingers cat? Epr paradox? Each discovery solves a piece of the puzzle that gets us closer and closer. That's what scientific method is for. What do you think the search for a hidden variable or the god particle is all about? Science is searching for evidence of God.... And it certainly isn't Jesus.
if there is a God or not? Once you're dead you are dead... Unless you believe in the after life.
When will science be able to prove whether or not there is an after life?
... or are we too busy building robots to fuck, in between dating hookers monogamously, and dating civies in an open relationship, while fucking other hookers? No wait, I mean shitting on another persons wanting to do something, they probably perceived as a positive gesture... Perhaps you are just high and drunk.
Posted By: Drunken Asian
Every new research leads to getting closer to the answer. You're completely wrong that science will never prove such and such. It proved that sun is not some mysterious being. There are many religions that spawned from the sun. Science debunked the glorious god behind these sun gods. Science proved that earth revolves around the sun and that we aren't the center of the universe as Catholics once claimed. Each step leads closer to the answer.
Also what do you think cosmology is studying? The universe is knowable even if it's not multiple dimensions our computers have no trouble doing calculations in multiple dimensions that humans can not in their head. You'd be surprised how far science has come.
They have proof that there was once a giant expansion and a cooling state (ie: big bang). The findings are considered one of the most accurate mathematical predictions that fit the expected observations. Only an illiterate idiot couldn't see that this observation is the remnant of a big bang
How about schrdodingers cat? Epr paradox? Each discovery solves a piece of the puzzle that gets us closer and closer. That's what scientific method is for. What do you think the search for a hidden variable or the god particle is all about? Science is searching for evidence of God.... And it certainly isn't Jesus.
You're completely wrong that science will never prove such and such. It proved that sun is not some mysterious being.
[b]Gödel's incompleteness theorems[/b] The first incompleteness theorem states that no consistent system of axioms whose theorems can be listed by an "effective procedure" (e.g., a computer program, but it could be any sort of algorithm) is capable of proving all truths about the relations of the natural numbers (arithmetic). For any such system, there will always be statements about the natural numbers that are true, but that are unprovable within the system. The second incompleteness theorem, an extension of the first, shows that such a system cannot demonstrate its own consistency.
In any case, science can only prove what it can observe. Humans cannot observe God.
The universe is knowable even if it's not multiple dimensions our computers have no trouble doing calculations in multiple dimensions that humans can not in their head.
There is a difference between doing calculations in multiple dimensions vs a 5th or more Dimension. A mathematical dimension is just an abstraction. The only relation math has to the real world is the assumptions used in the calculation. Time, the 4th Dimension, has limitations, such as they have not figured out how to change speed, let alone go backwards (in a single frame of reference, not one frame vs. another). So, any math that does not take that into account is meaningless. If you know nothing about the 5th Dimension, then your assumptions about it are bogus, and hence the math is worthless.
You'd be surprised how far science has come. They have proof that there was once a giant expansion and a cooling state (ie: big bang).
That surprising science has big problems. The current leading theory regarding the big bang is Inflation. Unfortunately, it requires that the universe grew at a rate faster than the speed of light (hence the name Inflation). Scientists have not figured how how anything like that can happen (without God). BTW: Scientists still have not figured out how the bang started in the first place (without God). So, the great theory, you so cherish as your proof of no God, has at least 2 God problems.
Which demonstrates my point: Science can only know things that follow the physical laws that are knowable by humans.
Science is also now where on the more fundamental question: How were the physical laws created in the first place? If just one of the many of the constants were just a little different, we would not exist
I'm not an atheist.
Also, space time expanding faster than speed of light does not break any laws within it.
The Scientific Method requires that a hypothesis be tested. Some things about the big bang theory can be tested, but there are limits. Those tests are mainly: Is what we observe today consistent with the theory. One of those "tests" is Cosmic Background Radiation. Unfortunately, the uniformity of Cosmic Background Radiation is a puzzlement that is solved by Inflation (which requires that the universe grow at a speed faster than the speed of light).
The limit on observational science, I believe, is about year 300,000 after the big bang. Before that, it is mere dogma (does not conform to the scientific method requirement of testing). The numbers say ... but there is no way to reproduce the big bang to test if it is right
That my friend, has been another reasonably good way to test big bang theory and will continue to be so.
I'll chock it up to a learning disability on your end.
You are the one holding others to their belief, that makes you more religious than the folks praying to Jesus. Most of the liberals on this board do this. I can't understand their reasoning.
Posted By: Drunken Asian
Everytime I bash jesus christ the DEAD HUMAN BEING who may or may not have existed, dumb religious pukes somehow assume I'm an atheist. It's pretty damn obvious to me that Jesus was and is nothing but a popular carpenter and quite possibly just a hoax, but most certainly just a false deity created my man and most certainly just a copycat fairytale that just so happens to share the exact same attributes that are very similar to Egyptian / Greek gods that man has created thousands of years before. Real birth day of Jesus isn't even Dec 25 but randomly selected by the Pagans for convenience and somehow it's the same as other mythological egyptian / greek gods. Did you religious pukes know this birth day deal about Jesus???
There's nothing special about jesus just the same old mythological stories repeated. After all, why would an almighty deity cry to his father deity "My god My God why have you foresaken me????" as he croaked on the cross? That in and of itself is just extremely stupid. MY GOD WHY HAVE YOU FORESAKEN ME!!! BOO HOO. And I'm supposed to be god too. Boo hoo, my daddy foresaken me.
So just cuz a dude rejects YOUR false deity, why do religious pukes assume the rejector is an atheist?
As a man of science, I don't discount the possibility of a creator. But only science can ever PROVE it. That is ironically our only chance at seeing any proof. Not some random statistically irrelevant miracles that nobody can ever prove. It could take us centuries if not thousands of years but you and I both know it's gonna be science who will ever find proof of any existence of a deity. And as of now I'm pretty damn certain it isn't some jealous christian god who has a special list of 10 commandments or some son of god or any kind of biblical bs. just a creator who designed the universe intelligently.
If a creator exists, the creator isn't some insecure mofo who requires that we offer human or animal sacrifices every sunday or wants us to pray at dinner time cuz I'm pretty damn sure an intelligent creator is secure about himself that he doesn't need our fucking thanking prayers every single day. S/he's the one who created us, so why the fuck do we need to thank thank thank thank thank every god damn day?
Don't you provide for your kids without needing to hear from them thanks dad/mom thanks dad/mom every single day? After all, the LAW requires that YOU provide for them until their 18th birthday! FUCKen a, if you have a child, god damn it it's your RESPONSIBILITY.
Some comic book bible written by men is no truth. So I offer a toast, here's to science. Our only hope at knowing the truth, likely in the very distant future.
I couldn't have said it better DA.
Now, since Dems are the "party of science", would it be ok if the Obama admin used some 21st century forensic computer science to find the missing IRS emails off of Lois Lerner's 20th century Wang computer?
Or maybe Bams can borrow some of the NSA's science since the WH science seems to be malfunctioning at present?
And this is especially important since science, certainly in this particular case, is "our only hope at finding the truth."
Don't leave me hanging with my glass held up in the air bro.
Caring For Fellowman Industrial Complex. Then they'll get all Jesusy on you.
Of course, its a great job with tons of perks "caring for fellow man" not to mention the masturbatory self congratulation they get from it.
Of course science has a perfect factual basis for "caring" which they crow about so much! Or does it? Can science prove caring even exists? Maybe we've been hoodwinked with that too???
Yep the dems may have manufactured the concept of "caring"
I need proof caring exists before I will. http://vimeo.com/29330826
Posted By: NeedleDick, the BugFucker
Caring For Fellowman Industrial Complex. Then they'll get all Jesusy on you.
Of course, its a great job with tons of perks "caring for fellow man" not to mention the masturbatory self congratulation they get from it.
Of course science has a perfect factual basis for "caring" which they crow about so much! Or does it? Can science prove caring even exists? Maybe we've been hoodwinked with that too???
prayers for me are confirmation, powerful, and spiritual. Words spoken are creative thoughts in motion, I AM..(healthy, loved, blessed, happy, grateful) I AM an extension of Source and a co-creator of my life desired.
When I feel weak, or impatient that my desires will not be fulfilled.. I will also come boldly to the throne of grace, humble asking for peace of heart as a child of God and the Universe.
Something truly miraculous happening in dimensions we are not intelligent enough to understand. Geometrical patterns that would blow our mind. Religion attempted to put something so grand in simplicity. All is well and good friend. Leave Jesus alone, please. You will never change someone's mind that has goose bumps their beliefs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH66MsrmE50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZgT1SRcrKE
You're trying to throw a million disorganized points onto a piece of paper like someone trying to play scrabble by throwing a bunch of random letters on a board.
One or two half verses from the Bible, completely out of context, does not prove your point.
Here's what you are doing in discussion form.
"My dog ate a bunch of maraschino cherries today. I'm going to go to the store and buy some carpet cleaner because he puked it all up in the living room. It looks like someone spilled wine all over the carpet and the house smells like vomit."
If you only reveal the third sentence, an outsider is going to think something completely different. "It looks like someone spilled wine all over the carpet and the house smells like vomit."
If you would like, I can give you a nice, well thought out, organized bible study on the entire context, with original language text (Greek and Aramaic) interpretation on "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" I am willing to do it. I enjoy it anyway. But it takes time, thought, and willingness to learn so I'll get back to you when I have time to map it out for you.
But you have to promise me not to puke scattered nonsense all over the page in an angered response.
There's a reason you're so angry about this, but it's skewing your ability to see clearly or make a valid point.
-- Modified on 6/22/2014 12:34:03 AM
Everywhere they go there are "thumpers" cramming religion down their throats.
With the exception of GaG who lives in the south, my hunch is these people suffer more from intolerance and some deep seated fear than from any kind of God Squad Swarm.
Or maybe it's just that their visible angst attracts it...hmmm, there's a thought!!
Posted By: Courtney.Ova
You're trying to throw a million disorganized points onto a piece of paper like someone trying to play scrabble by throwing a bunch of random letters on a board.
One or two half verses from the Bible, completely out of context, does not prove your point.
Here's what you are doing in discussion form.
"My dog ate a bunch of maraschino cherries today. I'm going to go to the store and buy some carpet cleaner because he puked it all up in the living room. It looks like someone spilled wine all over the carpet and the house smells like vomit."
If you only reveal the third sentence, an outsider is going to think something completely different. "It looks like someone spilled wine all over the carpet and the house smells like vomit."
If you would like, I can give you a nice, well thought out, organized bible study on the entire context, with original language text (Greek and Aramaic) interpretation on "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" I am willing to do it. I enjoy it anyway. But it takes time, thought, and willingness to learn so I'll get back to you when I have time to map it out for you.
But you have to promise me not to puke scattered nonsense all over the page in an angered response.
There's a reason you're so angry about this, but it's skewing your ability to see clearly or make a valid point.
-- Modified on 6/22/2014 12:34:03 AM
