I see one provider frequently; I consider her a friend so we talk openly.
We both like to do it in MISH; I love it because she has a pretty face. She is very orgasmic; sometimes she has 3 or 4 O's. She told me that she would start to hurt after the third one. As for me, from the time I penetrate, I cum anywhere between 5 to 15 minutes; after that, it would be difficult for me to finish. I think it's a mental thing because I would start to story if she's hurting. (By the way, it is probably a psychological thing also but I can't cum with HJ or BJ; it has to be vaginal.)
Several times I had trouble ejaculating and continued pumping. I couldn't tell whether she was enjoying it or hurting. I suggested that we stop but she would want me to continue.
Last evening, I had difficulty ejaculating so I suggested more than once that we stop but she wanted me to keep going. When we were done she told me that she was hurting; she would feel bad if I didn't cum. Actually I had a great time with near-O's; I think she defined my satisfaction as ejaculation. The problem is that I would feel bad if she was hurting and she would feel bad if I didn’t cum. She is a very low-volume UTR provider at this point; I'm afraid she would hurt more when she starts advertising again next month.
I'm not sure if I have a question. I like to let the men know that some providers so senesitive that it hurts. Perhaps the ladies would share with me on your experience. Is it common that a woman is so sensitive that it hurts? Do you keep quiet and take it even when it hurts? Any suggestion will be appreciated?
-- Modified on 7/28/2006 8:48:33 AM
Not just with providers, but for all women. The thing is, no woman is likely to TELL you it hurts because in our society, with regard to sex, the women are taught to basically think about your man's needs. So, if it hurts, we bear with it and go on. As a provider, that is magnified 100-fold because of the nature of what you're paying to receive: a good time and a finish.
Now, society has also taught women that we should get ours, too. In times past it was basically pushed that if we have to fake orgasm, go ahead and fake it to save the man's ego and in some cases, if it hurts or whatever, to get him to stop. It takes time to exact change in the minds of everyone and I still subscribe to the belief that I have to be good in bed and impressive with my knowledge and abilities with my lover so he thinks I'm a great lay and he's pleased. Most women can't have a g-spot orgasm and there are several reasons for this. One, there's virtually no position that allows the penis to stroke that spot just right. And two, women think too much during sex and sex should be less about thinking and more about feeling. We think about whether or not it feels good to him, whether or not he thinks we're good, whether or not he thinks we're boring and as a provider, we get the added bonus of thinking, "I wonder what he's going to write about me on the review and back channel!" So, yes it's stressful, in a sense. And my body, I don't know about all female bodies, stops making new lubrication between 5-10 minutes into the act. I have no idea why that is, but that's how my vagina is. I know I'm super wet and turned on in the beginning then the thoughts start creeping in, "Does he think I'm good, is it feeling good to him, what does he think, what will he write about me, etc. etc." and on and on it goes. I think it's just how women are wired because every single woman I've talked to has admitted to the same thing. It might explain why wives lose interest, too. Many are working full time jobs and taking care of a majority of the kids needs, too and sex, with all that thinking and worrying about how it feels to him can seem like one more person's needs and happiness to have to worry about after a long day. But maybe not. While I worry about it in private, love sex, I can also lie back, let go and also just enjoy it which I have just barely mastered with my job.
I don't know if this makes any sense, but I hope it does. Basically, yes...at some point it DOES hurt. We dry out and the constant friction of in and out and in and out does dry us out, especially if we're sitting there thinking about things OTHER than how good it feels. And don't let the ladies fool you guys, every provider I've talked candidly to has admitted to worrying about her performance and yes, that can and will dry you out and cause sex to hurt, even if you add lube. 
So, I guess in a sense, if you provider is hurting during the act at a certain time, take it as a compliment because I would be willing to stake my reputation on the fact that she's drying out because she's worrying about how it feels to YOU! And hey, that's part of what you're paying for, isn't it? Yes, it is.
If you have any questions and want to ask me privately, you can email me. Or feel free to ask on the board and I'm happy to answer from personal experience here, too.
Love,
Andi Ryan
PS I just woke up so please ignore spelling/grammar errors and longevity! I'm too lazy to proofread right now.
I should talk to my provider the next time I see her. After I lay the envelope down I treat a session as one between equal partners. Probably from years of training when I was married, I enjoy satisfying her as much as myself. One reason she is my ATF is that her O’s are genuine. I think she tries too hard and slowing down would actually help our experience.
BS This2006 women take what like as men do Am not talking aboutthis But in the real dating world this is diffant
Well, Bbrain,
I'd say every woman is an individual and every woman will have a different response...affected by her partner, her surroundings, her job, if she's ovulating, if she's near her period, if she's not turned on, etc.
Now as to if a woman will state that she's hurting, I'd say more often than not, providers will keep quiet and go on. After all, it's their job to provide sexual satisfaction. It's like any physical profession. There is pain sometimes, just like for a ballet dancer or a stunt woman, but she has to go on until the pain becomes so overwhelming that the job no longer becomes feasible. I'd say, realistically speaking, a provider's career can easily be cut by perimenopause and the attendant vaginal atrophy, [however minuscule,] which definitely will cause pain during intercourse. Some women cannot tolerate estrogen supplements, even when applied topically and/or locally; other women have such erratic cycles with metrorrhagia (excessive bleeding) that planning for a professional encounter is almost impossible. Another issue can be fibroids or endometriosis, which can make intercourse very painful, and which can happen at any age beyond puberty. The one thing you'll need to be aware of, is that most providers will NOT regale their clients with their personal vaginal health discussions. They'll keep quiet and just bear it if they're in pain.
Providers often have to engage in intromissive sex while not turned on; during days very close to their menses when vaginal tissues are on the dry side; and, even sometimes DURING their menses, when the entire vaginal canal has been desiccated by douching and big tampons, and blood flow is stopped by a sponge or diaphragm [yes folks, another 'dirty, dirty secret' in the profession.] Many providers DO have sex during their period, and just the tension as to whether it will be obvious to the client can make the entire vaginal area cramp up. It's hard to fake orgasms when they have to worry about blood leakage and oftentimes cramping as well.
And last, but not least - latex condoms are absolute vaginal dryers. A woman would have to be dripping with 'natural excitement' to go on for anything longer than five minutes without external lubricant. And, as a male, if after 10 minutes of pumping, hitting your stride and almost getting there, are you so apt to pull out and lube up just because you're thinking about the provider? Most clients would not. And so there she is, the provider - in pain, maybe wincing, but otherwise trying to keep up her blazingly hot, sexual persona...as her profession and yes, the reviews, demand.
Now I don't want to make it out that providers and hobbyists are locked into a gruesome, protracted effort solely to make that penis erupt; most of the time, the time spent forthe average male pumping prior to vaginal ejaculation is less than 3-4 minutes. But...those minutes can feel like hours if the provider is uncomfortable, not excited, tired or just plain irritated mentally. Sometimes things don't click on a physical or chemical level once the clothes come off. Two people can find themselves very attracted to one another..and then bam, hop in bed and the sexual chemistry is just way off.
Many providers will also make mental notes regarding clients who are 'a lot of work.' When it comes to inter-provider references, this is often a very basic question - "is he a lot of work?" And, when bills are due, a provider will often accept a 'physically active' client that she would normally avoid...and in the process maybe feel physical pain.
Of course it can be argued that providers choose their vocation freely and willingly; that they are aware of the pros and cons; and, that they should remain consummate professionals and just grin and bear it. But your posting is a very valid and important one, in that it raises a thorny issue. We want this to be a positive experience for both parties - while still remaining aware of the fact that sex is a commodity available at a price...the question is, how much is too much?
Caveat emptor,
the Love Goddess
-- Modified on 7/28/2006 1:34:54 PM
You gave lot of information for me to digest. I appreciate it.
I don't think she has any of the health problems that you listed. She did mention that she cums easily, so perhaps she dries out after a couple of quick orgasms; I'll ask her. She usually wants me to penetrate only after a couple minutes of foreplay; I think prolonging foreplay might help.
I agree that a session should be a positive experience for both parties, and there lies the problem. One time I saw her for a session after she went to the doctor for a physical. She didn't know it hurt until I penetrated. I sensed it; she admitted it and I suggested we stop. She insisted that I continue; she even got angry and cursed at me. Under such pressure, I didn't finish.
As I mentioned in the reply to Andi, after I lay down the enevlope I treat the session as between two lovers, especially with my ATF. However, she feels the burden for me to cum, and I would have trouble cumming if she is not enjoying it. I must say this is a strange hobby, it involves fee for service yet to be truly satisfying -- at least to me -- both parties must be equal partners.
-- Modified on 7/28/2006 7:24:24 PM
I have to admit that this information gives me second thoughts on continuing with this hobby. Like you, BBrain, I consider time spent to be something of mutual pleasure. I tried to look for an upside to my RE - that of what now appears to be a myth that women prefer men who can last longer - but considering just how long I tend to last now....
The idea of hurting someone, however inadvertently, really does take any of the appeal out of this.
In my case, I'm seeing new providers less and my ATF more. Having a woman with whom you can talk openly may help. I'm sure there are ways to achieve mutual pleasure. I might make the suggest to my ATF to prolong our foreplay.
Unfortunately, there really isn't a whole lot of options around this neck of the woods, professional or civilian. Women I work with are strictly hands-off (not that either one catches my eye or I theirs). Social life is non-existent here (partially by choice, partially by work hours). And this is just too small a town to even consider pursuing the hobby here.
That this is a bit like a teacher/student relationship.
Both must find it rewarding or neither will find it rewarding.
My kudos to you for refusing to be a hack. However, you must realize that when you set very high standards, disappointment is often your reward.
I, for one, would be enthralled to hear how this plays out.
I have a very severe case of Endometriosis, on occasion, I have been known to tell the gent to go easy and even explain why, in some cases, I cannot reach orgasm. I thought this was appreciated until lately when a client wrote me a very unhappy email post-coitus telling me, and I quote, "Don't tell your clients you can't reach orgasm or that sometimes it hurts. That's unsexy. Be sexy or get another job!"
I'm grateful that it took me almost four years to finally meet an actual, bona fide asshole in this business as I know of ladies who have met many in a third as much time. But I've taken his advice, now I just don't mention it for fear of receiving another nasty email like the one he sent. I was advised by another provider just to fake orgasm if I have to. I have never done this with anyone, much less a client because frankly, (and yes, I've been told otherwise) I am afraid they'd know if I faked it and why should I have to? Men don't fake orgasm, why should women? Other than, of course, to save the ego of the man. But after talking to multiple men about this, I've learned that men are generally okay with it if you don't have an orgasm. Most men realize that women don't cum every time they have sex and they'd prefer if the woman NOT fake it, so I don't.
This kind of goes back to my post pertaining to society pressuring women to think so much about the man and his wants and needs, egotistically and physically during sex before her own.
Anyway, endometriosis is a very good point. As are all the other points you mentioned. I just wanted to toss this one in the pot as well.
Love,
Andi
I'm an avid reader of your posts on this board, Ms. Ryan, and am mostly in agreement with your assessment here, grim as it may be for sustaining the fantasy that for some underpines the enjoyment of seeing a provider. I would take issue with the assertion that men don't fake orgasms. I've faked them before, and for precisely the same reason that you ascribe to women: to preserve the partner's ego. It can take me a long time to climax, and sometimes, you can just tell that the woman isn't into it anymore and, you know, enough already. The first few times I experienced this difficulty, I just stopped and did the usual post-coital activities, snuggling and what have you. It didn't take long to realize that my bedmates, explanations notwithstanding, were feeling that my difficulties were somehow due to an inadequacy on their part, and no assurances to the contrary would persuade them otherwise.
So, on the occassions when intercourse was being prolonged past the point where my partner was deriving any pleasure from it, and with no end in sight for myself, I'd simply fake it. It's not so difficult to pull off, as long as you're having protected vaginal sex (I've never had a partner who was so avid on the oral side that this issue ever emerged). I'd like to emphasize that I wasn't crazy about this deception, but it seemed relatively harmless, certainly preferable to being the occassion for a partner's reduced self-esteem.
The fact is, sex can be exceptionally enjoyable and satisfying even without an orgasm, with a provider or otherwise. The dishonesty isn't anything to be proud of, but people often tell white lies to bolster the confidence of the ones they care about. True, I've never faked with a provider, but as I'm not looking to inflict undue discomfort or pain on them, I guess I'll be careful in the future to try and finish some other way if I can observe any contraindications (although I'm more inclined to suspend my disbelief regarding any posssibility that the lady isn't enjoying herself in this situation, so extra vigilance will be required).
As for the question of what role societal expectations play in these situations, I'm not in a position to dispute your assessment of the pressure under which women labor and the extent to which they feel that their pleasure in the sex act is of less consequence than that of the man, but I can assure you that many men agonize over whether or not they are pleasing their partners (consider how often the the female orgasm, and speculation about it's frequency and authenticity, makes an appearance in TER reviews), and often feel diminished or humiliated if they don't think their bedmates have achieved climax.
What a very sweet and sincere response to my post! I'm sorry its taken me so long to get back to this board, I've been and still am very busy with my son in town.
I have been with gentlemen who have faked orgasm, too. I know when he does as the condom is empty. I suppose many women aren't very concerned if a man fakes it, however I am different. I genuinely want you to orgasm when you're with me and short of having to perform a 25K run in the sack, I will do virtually anything it takes to make the planets align in our genitals to make that happen.
Now, the first time I had a hobbyist fake, I was appalled that he would and I actually asked him why he did. He asked me how I knew and I knew for two reasons; 1) His cock did not contract inside me as men do when they ejaculate, and 2) There was no semen in the condom. I was young (barely 24) and I never knew men faked it. I think I may have embarassed him, but he said that he was worried he might be hurting me and he thought he probably wasn't going to be able to cum that way. I assured him he not only wasn't hurting me, I wanted him to take all the time he needed within a reasonable amount of time. I'm not a clock watcher and I genuinely feel it's just time. If we can't share our time with our partner without the expectation of an addition of money placed in the envelope, well, I think there's something wrong with you.
So, we began again with some stimulating oral, at which I'm very good and enjoy immensely (if I do say so myself, hehe) and I got him very excited again. We made love once more and he came within a half hour because he had been assured I was enjoying it and I wasn't worried about time. Sometimes it seems like men have problems solely because they worry too much (too much with me, anyhow) about time or what have you. With me, you never need to have that worry and I tell every client that up front. Now, if I think you're taking advantage of the situation obviously that's different. If you are coming to me to pay for one hour but see me for two deliberately, then you're taking advantage of me and my kindness and I will give you one chance to stop that behavior or I end our relationship, but in general, I haven't had that happen too often.
So, Hukilau, on behalf of all women everywhere, provider or not, I want to thank you for being concerned about our level of pleasure, our genitals hurting, and for worrying about taking too long. However, if you're with me at some point, please don't worry about anything because I promise you, I do not possess enough tact or decorum NOT to tell you I'm hurting or that there is a problem and I need a break. You will be aware at all times of how I'm feeling just as I'd hope to be made aware of how my partner is feeling if necessary.
Thank you for your candid, kind, thought-provoking reply and thank you for your first paragraph outlining that you enjoy my posts! You have no idea how much I appreciate hearing from you gentlemen in emails or on the boards that my opinions or posts have helped you or made you chuckle. Thanks again, darling and I hope we'll cross paths one day.
Love and much respect,
Andi Ryan of Phoenix
Andi, I have to laugh, even at myself. I faked an orgasm one of the first times with a provider for whom I am now a regular. I just ran off to the bathroom with the condom so she wouldn't see.
What was going on in my mind was that I didn't want her to feel that she had failed me! I was trying to protect her sense of professional pride after not coming for about 20 mins.
We laughed about it on a later occasion, fortunately. The reason I find this anecdote embarrassing is that you are right, I would find it deceptive if my partner faked an orgasm. And yes, I can tell with probably about 80% accuracy. I used to teach a course on human sexuality, and know the physical signs of female climax.
I'm probably the exception here, but I frequently don't orgasm with a provider. I'm very up-front about it, I always explain that I'm here for an entire experience, not just a 5 second thrill. (Though if it happens, it's certainly an added bonus!!). I've found that most providers, knowing what I really want, will more readily share their own desires and discomforts with me. In my mind, this 'heart to heart' makes the whole experience much more pleasurable.
