In her/his stable?
Besides the obvious that they are recruited there?Oh and since M recruits, advertises, answers emails and takes a cut of the girls payments make him guilty of promoting prostitution? No different in the eyes of the law when a provider or schedler does all that. If all they did was just scheduling and nothing else I think they would be safe from the promoting charge but since he does the advertising for the new ones at least he has now become a pimp.
, the best way to ruin a provider is to lie. The best way to ruin a client is a lie. The best way to ruin a scheduler? Yes. Who would want to do that, though...
another scheduler.
Not gonna add to this mess, but when someone makes such a claim, there should be proof.
Sorry if Iam a little naive, what is a Scheduler?
Or does TER not allow it?
SO, the best way to ruin a provider is to lie. The best way to ruin a client is a lie. The best way to ruin a scheduler? Yes. Who would want to do that, though...
another scheduler.
Not gonna add to this mess, but when someone makes such a claim, there should be proof.
I am calling him out to offer his proof for
HIS accusations. Clients and providers attack each other, but who attacks a good scheduler??? Competition. Why on earth would anyone start spreading rumors about a very reputable scheduler? He accused Em of some pretty horrible things and I want to make sure that I do my part to remind people not to believe shit. Especially from anyone using an alias
Not likely he/she will be offering any proof. It's going to someone's grave and this will join the other mysteries and conspiracies of the world...JFK, Area 51, etc.
HIS accusations. Clients and providers attack each other, but who attacks a good scheduler??? Competition. Why on earth would anyone start spreading rumors about a very reputable scheduler? He accused Em of some pretty horrible things and I want to make sure that I do my part to remind people not to believe shit. Especially from anyone using an alias.
Hands down I would like to schedule directly with a provider if at all possible.
In my experience in the hobby I run out of fingers counting the number of providers that said scheduler schedules for that ai have seen.
Some have always been with him, some have left, some have left and come back. With all of these encounters I have Not gotten the feeling from any of the ladies that they were under any sort of duress from him.
By the way it has made it easy to get cleared to a new provider.
it is also amazes me hat a listof providers to boycott or ignore from the accusers on this board has names of providers on it that do not even use him.
So much for facts
Personally I will not see a provider that uses a scheduler to schedule. I want to deal with the provider directly. One less person having my information is the way I see it. But to each their own on how they want their info out there. And if I miss out on some gals because of it then I miss out.
Plus if even half of the accusations are half true I would not want to have any dealings with the man called Em. The deception has already started by pretending to be a female and it makes me wonder about the provider too if she knows about the deception that her scheduler has already started.
I know if someone tried to do something like that without my prior knowledge and my livelihood at stake I would be pissed. Plus how much has this man made off of his scheduling by deception? And I have heard from others that he ,like others, have more then one handle on here. it's just more deception on top of deception.
And with his many names how many of the reviews that are out there are written by him just to promote the girls he schedules for? It really makes me wonder. Cause I have noticed that just like the canned email responses that are sent out when you ask for info some of the reviews seem really canned and the same too.
And I personally don't really listen to someone really hyping up a gal on here either cause for all we know it could be all fake too and just PR for the new gals written by someone just to generate business for the new gal.
Em has always wanted to be androgynous and still does. The way you are wording things sounds like you still believe stuff.
Let's go with the what ifs, though: What if all that was said about Em (gender withstanding) was proven to be absolutely false. Would you still say those things? I am trying really hard to put the fire out of this rumor, because it's such a horrible thing to lie about.
Em has done everything out of care for keeping providers AND clients safe. In fact, the reputation is so good, that the only way someone could get all that business would be to ruin Em.
But what I have heard from several guys is that he lead them on either believing they were talking to the provider at first and then later on when he started saying it was Em and not the provider that he was a she. Androgynous or not he lead guys into believing that he was a she. That is extremely misleading and wrong is so many ways. If I wanted to see providers that use a scheduler I wouldn't care what sex the scheduler is as long as they were truthful about it. And since he has already lied about that it makes me wonder what else he has lied about. His credibility in my eyes is really close to zero. And I'm not saying all the allegations are true. If you reread my PP you will see I said if even half of what was said was half true its still really disturbing that he did it to start with. And it does bring into the light on what he has said is true and what is a lie. And of course gals like you that use him will back him up. I have never met him or talked to him. So I don't know him and don't have a horse in this race but his actions are ones that are clearly ones trying to cover things up.
Em has always wanted to be androgynous and still does. The way you are wording things sounds like you still believe stuff.
Let's go with the what ifs, though: What if all that was said about Em (gender withstanding) was proven to be absolutely false. Would you still say those things? I am trying really hard to put the fire out of this rumor, because it's such a horrible thing to lie about.
Em has done everything out of care for keeping providers AND clients safe. In fact, the reputation is so good, that the only way someone could get all that business would be to ruin Em.
Very Good Points Pugdog.
Clearly, a number of gents have made the allegation that the individual in question, has on occasion, used deceptive practices, in responding to potential clients. And while seemingly innocent, none the less it is deceitful, and it was intentional. the allegation, is that the individual is to have masqueraded as a female provider, and misled the client in doing so.
As was stated by someone on another thread on the subject, " Where there is smoke, There is fire "
Which lends to your question, that if the individual lied about that, then what else has he lied about ?
Clearly, to those who speak to his overall business professionalism, the individual is sincere, honest, and committed to serving his clients / providers.
Yet, one has to ask, at this juncture, How aware ? are those who are vouching for the individual ?
Is it that those who vouch for him, are over extending their trust, as they have made the mistake of dismissing these seemingly small infractions ? How then can it be, that an adequate defense can be mounted, given to the fact that there is deception present by the individual ?
Like Pug, I have no dog in the fight. and like you Pug, I am presenting food for thought
Some years ago, I saw one provider and found out sometime later that the email exchange I thought I had with her was actually with her SO, who handled the scheduling for her and two other providers. And I've heard from other hobbyists pretty much across the country that the practice is not rare. I don't care for that. I prefer to deal directly with the provider but if I'm going to deal with a scheduler, I want to know that and I don't want him or her to pretend to be someone they are not. That being said, as offenses go, this one is minor and it's a far cry from the sort of thing Em was accused of below.
I see you, a hobbyist, insinuating that a person in this hobby could be keeping a secret and therefore shouldn't be trusted...
There seems to be a HUGE disparity from 'It's a dude!' to 'he sent rapists to see girls.'
I know other schedulers that are dudes AND pretend to be the provider. So, you can't get away from that. It is all around you.
You have never met him OR the people that have been stirring things up. I am trying to put a touch more truth injected in here AND to glean a little more information. A horrible accusation was made against a really good person, who I'd bet would have even more clients and providers come forward in his defense than these other two combined.
see how the busy women find the use for an assistant. but why do some women have no time to screen, but have lots of time to write long long responses on here?
The names I used to start the list were first offered up by Lockstock. I add two more I know from dealings with this dude in the past. You can go after Lockstock for introducing these folks into the fray, not me. I also believe Whitney Cohen used him.
On another point, this guy could be the closest thing to Jesus Christ in his motivations, but I would prefer to know his roster of clients so I can avoid them. Is that too much to ask?
If this individual is so harmless and benevolent, then let's get the full roster out there for everyone to see. It may be great advertising. I doubt he has the courage or integrity to come out of the shadows to provide the list. Trinity if you are so convinced of his innocence and want the back channel chatter to stop, give us the roster.
-- Modified on 5/24/2016 9:15:09 PM
That is correct. His roster of clients are providers using his services. I'm not asking for a provider's list of clients.
Has not and will continue not to be influenced by who her scheduler is. That decision is entirely mine and will never influenced by opinions and rumors. I think a great many on this board will share similar feelings on this matter
Sums it up for me too. It is a personal choice, how you treat people, and the saying YMMV.
I agree about lies ruining people. So what is your proof? Regardless of your intentions, I think you just added to the mess and stirred the pot that I think was otherwise waning
Yes, that would be nice, wouldn't it? Well, my end hasn't died down AT ALL. The boards? That is the tip of the iceberg
Really? Your end is not dying at all? Tip of the iceberg?
Who has the time and desire to even keep talking about this anymore? Creating drama for the sake of drama. If this is what consumes people's time, I feel bad for them. So many other things in life to enjoy.
It would seem that writing this post is adding to the mess. Not adding to the mess would be not writing a post about it. Just MHO
...too close to home and struck some nerves.
NOTHING is going to be resolved here. Most of what can be written has been written. No one will be swayed from their opinion. Lick the wounds (where applicable) and move on.... (This and $4 will buy you coffee... maybe.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZR64EF3OpA
SO, the best way to ruin a provider is to lie. The best way to ruin a client is a lie. The best way to ruin a scheduler? Yes. Who would want to do that, though...
another scheduler.
Not gonna add to this mess, but when someone makes such a claim, there should be proof.
As much as I respect Trinity I think restarting this subject was a mistake,those that choose to believe rumors wont change their mind so bringing attention to this subject dos not help Em's cause. This hobby is based on the deception in men's own mind that they have found a women that is turned on by them, try not paying & see how far you get.
And not get deleted as often happens when someone does not like what is being said.
I agree with MrHuck - should have let sleeping dogs lie.
Are you telling me, that I had been doing it Wrong all those years ?
I did not pay them to play into my fantasy, that they actually enjoyed sex with me, I paid them to
Leave !
And now I find out from you, That all I had to do to get them to Leave, was to Not pay them ?
Damn You Charlie Sheen !
Seriously though, You are quite right and truthful as well.
If there were no money in it, the providers would all be working at those high paying 9 to 5 jobs in the corporate world. Such as Wall Street, and they would still figure out a method of fucking us out of our hard earned cash. LOL
... would probably get a good laugh out of a man putting on the persona of a woman. I know I had a good laugh when I found out about the original "Em" being a man. Now of course, it's a multi-person identity, with all but one of the members being female.
I don't understand all the anger due to one member of the "Em" scheduling group being a man. Maybe not everyone thinks it's humorous, as I did. And if someone doesn't want to work through this scheduling group, or with any scheduler, that's their prerogative. But why get all bent out of shape about it? How is it dangerous?
As for demands to publish a list of all providers who use Em, there's multiple problems with that, but one of them is that it's impractical. Such a list would get out of date, and inaccurate, very quickly. Providers come and go. An inaccurate list is much worse than no list, IMO.
So rather than a list, if you don't want to deal with a particular scheduler or schedulers in general, why not simply mention that in a respectful way in your initial communication to schedule with a provider? Also, check recent reviews as it's usually noted whether the provider uses a scheduler, and often which scheduler.
And a suggestion for providers and their schedulers: please make it clear in your initial response to a client whether it's the provider herself or a scheduler behind the keyboard, so there's no misunderstanding. Transparency and clear communication are highly valued in the business world.
But rather that we (hobbyists) are being lied to and misled by these e-mails.
Many of us are/were hurt to learn that Em is/may be a man. Even getting past that, many did not know that there are "many Ems" and not just one.
We all want to fuck and suck, etc. but none of us like being lied to. Yes, our hobbying and your providing is all built on lies (fake names, hiding from significant others, etc.) but we should be honest when possible.
What about all the "Em" schedulers and those girls (providers) saying something in their ads and e-mail replies something like hypothetically"member of the Lake Group" or "Em LLC" or something?
Because it's all currently behind the curtain and now more of us have gotten a peak and...
As you say, it's all about transparency for many of us.
I don't understand all the anger due to one member of the "Em" scheduling group being a man. Maybe not everyone thinks it's humorous, as I did. And if someone doesn't want to work through this scheduling group, or with any scheduler, that's their prerogative. But why get all bent out of shape about it? How is it dangerous?
As for demands to publish a list of all providers who use Em, there's multiple problems with that, but one of them is that it's impractical. Such a list would get out of date, and inaccurate, very quickly. Providers come and go. An inaccurate list is much worse than no list, IMO.
So rather than a list, if you don't want to deal with a particular scheduler or schedulers in general, why not simply mention that in a respectful way in your initial communication to schedule with a provider? Also, check recent reviews as it's usually noted whether the provider uses a scheduler, and often which scheduler.
And a suggestion for providers and their schedulers: please make it clear in your initial response to a client whether it's the provider herself or a scheduler behind the keyboard, so there's no misunderstanding. Transparency and clear communication are highly valued in the business world.
BINGO!!!!
I'm sure those that don't mind using a scheduler will continue to, but in the provider ads be clear about who is the first contact when asking for info. Because then those of us that don't want to use them won't ,keeps everyone happy. And no reason to lie about the sex of the scheduler, those that don't mind using them won't feel ripped off and lied to like what is happening right now.
And as far as you knotsaway I have heard from several people that you are actually Em. And looking back at all your responses to this subject it actually looks like they are true. And looking at your reviews they are awful cookie cutter form too praising the scheduler. And I know that Em has a few more handles too.
... it's dangerous to take rumor and innuendo at face value. Which is how this whole thing started, isn't that right?
All those people who told you I am Em are either lying, or repeating misinformation they got from someone else who's lying, etc. In any case, it's another example of how one lie becomes a torrent of lies.
Here's one for you: how about I start a rumor that you're Max? I'll bet I could even come up with something that seems like a reasonable basis for it. OK with you?
No... that would be a terrible, unforgivable thing for me to do. It would be just as bad for the people I give that ugly rumor to to spread it to others without being sure it's true.
This little community has definitely become a toxic, unpleasant place to be... a place where rumor-mongering has replaced mongering as the main activity. With no consideration who might get hurt in the process.
If that's the way y'all want to live... be my guest. It's not my cup of tea.
Wow! Kinda funny how you bring up Max after 2 years of them being gone. Really makes me wonder a lot more now.
The whole Max mess was a textbook about how badly things can go when people make unsubstantiated accusations and is a useful reminder today of why it is still a bad idea.
Knotsaway hits on a very important subject and that's something everyone needs to keep in mind. Discretion. So I'll start by showing you how it's done.
Knotsaway will tell you himself we've never met and don't know each other's real identity. But I've learned a bit of how this hobby works and know for a fact he is not Em. How did I know that? That's where discretion comes in. It's none of my business and no one else needs to know it.
And I'm not just referring to this whole mess but to the general tone of late around here. People need to stop and think before they go and throw information around on here. People revealing to much in reviews or comments does no one any good.
Especially when it's false. As much of this mess has been.
How do I know that? Shall I go over that whole discretion thing again?
I do not nor have ever used a scheduler in my almost ten years as a provider. Knotsaway was very carefully screened by me and is neither a scheduler nor Em. There are other providers who know these two very distinctly different men and will also attest to that fact.
When a hobbyist contacts an agency, he knows he's not dealing with the provider initially. If a provider is using a scheduler then both of them should make clear to those seeking to see the provider that she uses a scheduler.
Good point Vorlon but they (the providers and schedulers) don't.
Some do, some don't, and some are better at it than others. I will say that the one time I contacted a provider who used Em for scheduling, I found out in the reply to my initial email that I dealing with Em.
I don't remember who it was now, but I've seen a provider's website that specifically stated she used a scheduler for making appointment arrangements but if the client preferred not to use the scheduler then to put something specific in the email subject and she would handle the email herself
That sir, is some complete and utter bullshit.
I've seen many lovely ladies both locally and nationally and not once has any ever hidden the fact that I am talking with a scheduler.
I don't know what your axe to grind is and I don't have a problem with you having it but don't toss out misinformation like.
I've seen many Em girls, And Brie girls, And Wilma girls, etc. etc. etc. I've seen travelling ladies who use schedulers and not once have I ever had one fail to disclose that I was speaking with a scheduler.
Hell, I might have a hundred emails to see as many ladies and every single one that was responded to by Em clearly stated that I was talking to Em and not the actual provider. Just like when I deal with Tiffany, Betty etc.
I can also show you 100's of emails of known M gals going back several years showing you that M did not always say it was him. He has only started doing that recently. And it is real easy to see which gals work for M because he uses the same format for both the initial email and how he makes the ads for his girls. Cut and Paste.
Oh and since M recruits, advertises, answers emails and takes a cut of the girls payments make him guilty of promoting prostitution? No different in the eyes of the law when a provider or schedler does all that. If all they did was just scheduling and nothing else I think they would be safe from the promoting charge but since he does the advertising for the new ones at least he has now become a pimp.
In her/his stable?
Besides the obvious that they are recruited there?
Oh and since M recruits, advertises, answers emails and takes a cut of the girls payments make him guilty of promoting prostitution? No different in the eyes of the law when a provider or schedler does all that. If all they did was just scheduling and nothing else I think they would be safe from the promoting charge but since he does the advertising for the new ones at least he has now become a pimp.
For those of us that want to avoid using a scheduler, and this dude specifically, we should just avoid all well known, well reviewed providers since they are likely to need a scheduler and use this dude. For providers that want to clear themselves of this stigma, they are welcome to declare here (on TER) that they do not and will not work with Em.
The mantra is always about safety and protection of all parties, so allow us to protect ourselves from this dude by declaring you do or do not work with Em.
Old 1 to 1 is still at it,hit us with facts or shut-up.
Mr. Huck you......don't seem to grasp that some of us would prefer to avoid schedulers, specifically this dude, so a list of his provider clients would be helpful to us. To all that don't really care about knowing who's scheduling whom, no need to comment unless you feel compelled to let everyone know that you don't care. I don't like Brussels sprouts in case anyone cares that I don't care for them.
I really doubt there are that many guys who share your thinking. I'm certainly not going to avoid seeing someone I want to see just because she uses Em or might use Em.
Talon=Em, shocking huh?
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J/K
SO, the best way to ruin a provider is to lie. The best way to ruin a client is a lie. The best way to ruin a scheduler? Yes. Who would want to do that, though...
another scheduler.
Not gonna add to this mess, but when someone makes such a claim, there should be proof.