I started with the get to know me lunch thinking this is like match. Spent a lot of money and time with ladies I knew the minute I saw them that I had no interest. And a lunch date turning into BCD fun has a low chance of happening.
Once I changed my MO to be being very upfront about adult fun thinfs started happening fast. Many agree to just coming over. Somemeet for coffee. I go with the coffee route if Im concerned about her looks.
You have to realize. Young ladies have a much more casual attitude about sex. They just want money. AS ALWAYS YMMV.
Recently joined SA and upgraded to Premium and after a few days I've got about 4 or 5 lunch dates set up for next week. I'm new to this whole meeting first to see if there's chemistry or a connection and then discussing an arrangement. A few questions for you experienced guys:
1. Is there a chance that the lunch date goes really well and there's an opportunity to make arrangements on the spot and actually go back to their place for a session? If so, how much cash should I plan to bring with me? Or is it more common for just lunch to occur and say your good byes and then the negotiations or arrangements are made via text or messaging later on?
2. Is there a chance that any of these girls are expecting money for their time just to meet for lunch? So far, they haven't mentioned anything about needing money to meet for lunch, but is there a chance that one of them would expect some type of compensation for their time? Or am I correct in assuming that the lunch is basically an interview for both of us to determine if we're good to progress into the "arrangement phase"?
3. IF arrangements are going to be made, who usually begins with their offer or proposal? Any suggestions on which type of arrangement or offer that is usually acceptable to both parties? A per visit or pay for play arrangement, a weekly, bi-weekly or monthly arrangement?
Thanks for any advice you guys can offer. I don't want to screw this up on the first meeting with these girls
#You can get lucky at the first meet. Have enough cash for a hotel room. She may not be willing to take you to her place for the first meet. Not sure how much you want to give her. Don't take more than what you want to give her. SB can bleed yo
I started with the get to know me lunch thinking this is like match. Spent a lot of money and time with ladies I knew the minute I saw them that I had no interest. And a lunch date turning into BCD fun has a low chance of happening.
Once I changed my MO to be being very upfront about adult fun thinfs started happening fast. Many agree to just coming over. Somemeet for coffee. I go with the coffee route if Im concerned about her looks.
You have to realize. Young ladies have a much more casual attitude about sex. They just want money. AS ALWAYS YMMV.
So do you think in the initial messaging back and forth that I should tell her that I'm basically looking for the connection with benefits and that I have 1K per month to spend on that type of arrangement. Then see if she wants to meet for coffee or lunch to see if we click?
Also, none of the girls so far have mentioned a dollar amount. They pretty much say that they like my profile and would like to meet to discuss further. Some are asking what type of arrangement am I looking for. Is that when I should just say that I have 1K per month to spend on the right girl or situation?
Try to set up a fee per meet initially until you figure out if it's a fit and we have a "real" connection or whatever term you want to feed her. What if she is good looking but a bust in bed, which can and does happen. You out 1K and then what. Most of these women are on this site to make money and have sex, so asking for a pay as you go initially is a sound approach. If she is a porno star in bed, then you can set up the arrangement. But I would want to test drive it before I buy it.
I have a nice looking 29 yr old SB, but she is not really getting it done to my liking in the sack, so thinking about moving on. I pay as I go, so nothing to regret if I stop tomorrow.
Also, none of the girls so far have mentioned a dollar amount. They pretty much say that they like my profile and would like to meet to discuss further. Some are asking what type of arrangement am I looking for. Is that when I should just say that I have 1K per month to spend on the right girl or situation?
No sense telling them you're good for 1k a month if they think $500 a month is great.
And that's how you end up in a 99 civic rather then the 2015 caddy you were looking for.
Horrible car buying advice but great for SB.
Also, none of the girls so far have mentioned a dollar amount. They pretty much say that they like my profile and would like to meet to discuss further. Some are asking what type of arrangement am I looking for. Is that when I should just say that I have 1K per month to spend on the right girl or situation?
Negotiation 101, don't be the one to mention a number first. Like buying a car "so how much can you spend today?', "what do you want your payment to be"...no no no.
No sense telling them you're good for 1k a month if they think $500 a month is great.
I can take a stab at these and then I'm sure some other more experienced guys will chime in...
1. Yes... I wouldn't necessarily count on it but it definitely could happen. If there are drinks involved, your odds may go up significantly. You should bring condoms and enough $$ for whatever you and she agree on plus hotel room. She probably won't host but you never know.
2. Sure there's a chance they may expect something or may ask for something but that doesn't mean you have to give it to them. Usually that will have been discussed prior to first meeting if they want money to have coffee or lunch. General rule of thumb is to not agree to that. They/you should be more focused on the connection and most would agree it sets bad precedent to pay just to determine compatibility. That being said, exceptions can be made for gas money or other expenses depending, but you should try only to pay for sex and any other activities you and she partake in together and not for her just to show up.
3. After some get-to-know-ya chit-chat and you feel like you like her enough, you can start steering the convo towards the actual arrangement terms. Again, focus on connection and making the situation a win-win for both. Ask if she's ok going BCD. Tell her what you want in terms of time spent together and frequency of meets for X price. Personally, I think per-meet allowance is best to start to make sure you like her, then if so, you can move to monthly allowance etc...
Lastly, going forward, try to make first meets either coffee or drinks. You don't want to spend 50 or 100 to eat with someone and find out you don't like them. Drinks may be more likely to get you laid that day if you want that. Coffee is cheap and easy way to meet and determine compatibility for later. Lunch could go well, but just as easily could not go well and then you're on the hook for the lunch bill for someone you don't like. Better to save that $$ for BCD time.
Hope that helps. Like most have said here, be a gentleman and well put-together. Be respectful and chew with your mouth closed and all that shit and you should have no problem. One of the hardest parts of this is getting them to meet. Once you have them in front of you, it's really a no-brainer to just not do something that will make them NOT want to sleep with you. Also, don't be afraid to walk if they won't negotiate or they come with a number you don't like. There are plenty of other chicks out there that will be in your range and they will respect you more if you don't fold like a lawn chair or seem desperate.
Good luck
Good shit Junglegym! Thanks for the well thought out reply it is very helpful! Things were a little slow on that site at first, but recently the messages have been pouring in. It's so hard to not want to meet them all and see if there's a connection to make the offer for the arrangement.
I have 3 meets planned for next week and 2 more for later. I'm wondering what to do if i have a great connection on the first meet and agree to terms. Should I cancel the others or meet with them anyways and just postpone the next date with them until I get the bank roll built up?
I know what you mean about wanting to meet them all. We feel like a kid in a candy store, but be careful, SA can be feast or famine sometimes... you're on feast right now but you have to plan for famine bc these girls are VERY flaky and always looking for the next best thing.
Two things:
1. Try to plan your first meets sooner than a week out. A wise SD told me that a week is like a year in SA time and A LOT can happen in a week. When I had first meets that were a week out, the girls usually flaked or NCNS. You can waste a lot of time that way. You have to strike while the irons hot and you have their attention and try to get to them within a couple days of messaging for best results.
2. Try to space out your communication with them a bit more so you don't get overloaded. It's pretty hard to juggle 5 SBs at one time. Remember, while you are taking to 4-5 girls, they are talking to 4-5 other guys. Imo play it by ear and don't commit to too much too soon until you have a bit more experience with this. Stay on pay-per-meet until you want to lock down something more regular with someone. This will also allow you to play the field a bit more as your funds allow.
Be patience is the advice I give and do your homework. As a person who has negotiated deals most of my life, and this is a negotiation, I have learned that to be successful at it you have to always be willing to walk away. You may be surprised how quickly they come around when you tell them no or just start to walk away. And if I had 5 interviews - which is how you have to look at this, I would be full of myself and feel fairly certain I am going to connect with one or two of them.
If they want 100 to meet for lunch, I would just pass, unless she is a 10+, but that is going to be an expensive venture for you anyway - and you have to make the call on that situation. And I know that it's hard (no pun intended) to negotiate toughly when you are sitting across from a hot SB that you really want to be with. Being new, I am sure you just want to connect and get laid, I get it, but try to think with your big brain. You will find this to be very addictive - it can be a lot of fun.
"Amen to that brother!" This is becoming very addictive and I haven't even sealed the deal yet, but I'm sure a few them will work out. It's just difficult to stop searching for new girls to contact even though I'm already feeling like I'm over extended with making all these plans for lunch/coffee.
I really don't see myself going back to FBSM or 400/500hr escorts any longer if this works out!
Lol. The search never stops. The ladies trnd to have a short shelf lufe. They start either wanting more, stop putting out, bring along drama etc, etc
I really don't see myself going back to FBSM or 400/500hr escorts any longer if this works out!
this would seem to be the only way to go. You have the time to meet and source leads/SB's while you are working on whatever you currently have in the "bull pen" warming up. If I were unattached, I would only swim in this pond. For me, the pros are still less maintenance and in my market more like 3XX and less for a quality experience. But I still will dabble in the sugar world, just very very much UTR - no photos posted, etc. As had been said repeatedly, it's addictive.
but yes, this is definitely a "hobby" where you need to keep prospects in the pipeline.
A couple of comments on the OP.
Lunch dates. Lunch dates are most likely where you have the lowest odds of heading straight to the bedroom and for that reason I try to avoid those types of dates. Yes, you can get laid on a first date lunch date, but it's your worst bet .
I can't imagine paying $100 for a lunch date, especially when there is no guarantee you aren't going to get catfished. I "might" pay for carfare, but paying a hundred bucks just for her to show up sends the wrong message, especially for a guy with only a grand a month to play with. Those are the type of women that will send you back to hooker land, as they are most likely going to hold you up for at least $500 for a "real" date.
If you want your best chance to get laid on the first date, meet in the evening and make the meeting either close to your home if you are single and able to bring a woman home with you, or scout out a hotel close to your meeting place and make sure they have room availability that evening, IOW, "plan for success" Women can go hot and cold on you sex wise, Just like in sales, once she says "yes" you need to close the deal. lol
1. From lunch to BCD is possible, however, Happy Hour to BCD is far more likely. Work can get in the way of things after lunch. My experience is that Happy Hour to BCD will happen more than half the time if there is chemistry and agreement about money.
Don't assume that she will host, especially on a first date. Some SBs can't or won't host. Others will after they become comfortable with you. You should do research in advance to find out what affordable and decent hotels are in the area. Hotels raise several issues, including added cost and the paper trail.
I think having cash is a good idea, but going to the ATM on the way to the hotel or even after the fact can work. I'd recommend taking the maximum that you are comfortable with, say, $400 or $500. Definitely take condoms.
2. Some, though not many, SBs will want money to meet. Generally speaking, I would avoid them. If the ones you have set up lunch with have not mentioned it yet, they are unlikely to do so. You should, of course, pay for lunch. If you want to give them something unsolicited, like a $50 SBX card, for their time, that is a nice touch. I'd do that only if you plan to see her again. Your view of lunch as a preliminary interview step is valid. You both get to make sure the photos are not old, misleading, or fake; you can check the physical attraction; you can assess personality; and you can discuss interests, etc., before talking about money and sex.
3. I can't stress this enough--if you are looking for something other than a quick fuck, focus on making a connection and building chemistry. The best SBs in my view are those who care more about the connection than the money. Try to discuss money as late as possible. If it doesn't even come up at lunch, that may be ok. Be subtle and tactful. Try to get a sense of what she is looking for in terms of companionship, money, sex, etc. Does she want monthly? Exclusivity? See if she can host. Ask her what she likes in the bedroom. Definitely talk about duration of the date. Some women think that 45 minutes of "private time" is adequate. Others are willing or even eager to play for 2-4 hours. When it comes to money, try to get a number for her first. Ask her what she "needs." Some SBs will base their need around their rent or college loans. For example, $1,200 in rent could be 3 dates @ $400 or 2 dates @ $600. Don't commit financially to more than one date. Any agreement on multiple dates should be tentative. Don't pay up front.
Feel free to PM me with questions.
Keep your wits about you, think with the larger head, and be careful, but try to have fun in the process.
KL
I'm definitely not looking for a quick lunch and then off to Fck. I was just wondering how often that does happen. I'm approaching this like you suggest, by building a connection. I'm not in a hurry to commit to anything and try to go get laid afterwards. I'm looking for the SB that wants the 2-4hr date and not the 1hr date that is just sex. Is there a way to weed out the girls that just want the cash for the quick date?
If they have professional nude pics, 100% chance they are a hooker, if they send you selfie nude pics unsolicited 90% chance they are a hooker. Although the one girl who was more GF, or actually more fuck buddy than SB, a girl I saw several times, had sex with EVERY time and who never asked me for a penny did send me a topless pic before our first date. She was most definitely a unicorn though, I know guys claim some of the girls want the sex "just as much as we do", but of course are getting paid to say so. This woman wanted the sex even MORE than I did and never charged me a penny for it, THAT is how I know she was telling the truth. lol
Back to your question. the more aggressive they are and the more they remind you of how providers act, the more likely they are to only want that sex only, one hour date like you get from hookers. If they are pushing you to meet the very first day you exchange messages, they most likely are a quasi hooker as well. Now that doesn't mean that if they "agree" to see you right away they are a hooker, it's when they start "pushing" for it that your red flags should go up, and then you should send them my way if they are hot. lol
I agree with GaG, largely. The nude selfies don't necessarily indicate a pro, but often they suggest a semi-pro. Aggressiveness is a big key. Did you contact her, or did she contact you? If the latter, the chances are higher that she's focused on money. Did she agree to meet or even go BCD without seeing any photos or engaging in any substantive conversation? If so, it's a bad sign. Did she quote you a price, a list of services, and/or a duration of the date up front? Another bad sign.
Ideally, the SB will want to exchange a few messages and some pictures, then propose getting together. If someone wants to meet that day, it may be a bad sign. Look for someone who seems normal and like a GND with a libido.
I have had at least 4 or 5 dates for drinks in the late afternoon or early evening, and they all ended up in either my car or her car for some heavy make-out sessions so I could check out the merchandise so to speak. LOL. It usually consists of some DFKs and boobs fondling. A couple times, I managed to get BJ and FIV. One time, the bar was kind of dark so we just made out right there. It usually takes at least 3 drinks to loosen them up so be prepared to spend at least 50 on the bar tabs. As for scoring on the first date, it happened to me about 50% of the dates. In almost all cases when it happened, we already discussed money in our email exchanges, so once we verified the pics are real and there are no turn-offs, we are good to go.
I NEVER pay allowances, always pay per date. If you have to do it, half upfront and half after she fulfills her end of the deal. Not recommended for newbies IMO.
and I think my batting average is just a little, but not much better than yours where it comes to "first date sex", but I am including the dates where its by my choice that we don't have sex, which is about 20-25% of the time.
Unlike you, most of the time we have NOT discussed money in our emails/PMs/texts, or at least only in a most general manner. BUT I have only done a very few lunch dates, almost all of my "first dates" are dinner dates. I am trying to think back on how many lunch dates I have had and I think it's only three and of those three, none of them led to sex immediately afterwards, one did lead to sex later that evening, but that was the best I've done with lunch dates. Now that does exclude daytime date with quasi or outright hookers where we do meet in the daytime, but we do so either at my place or a hotel. Obviously my batting average in those cases is the same as all dates with hookers,100% lol
They are either, as you said, quasi/real hookers or scammers. When I first started, I actually encountered a couple cash-and-dash scammers who were very eager to meet for sex on the first date (first red flag). Being a newbie in the Sugar Land, I was dumb enough to gave them the money upfront just like in the escort hobby. They managed to open the door and ran away when I turned around to undress. After that, I either pay after the deed is done or only half upfront. If they insist on money upfront, I move on.
-- Modified on 10/20/2016 5:28:02 PM
Crap, I didn't even think about that scenario!
Thanks for posting that, I'll make sure to tell them that I'm not in a rush for the sex. I'm basically looking for the right girl who wants to enjoy a 2-3hr date with playtime at the end.
I don't think you need to explicitly tell them that per se... cuz if she's legit, you also don't want to set the expectation that its ok for them to wait 2 or 3 dates before they put out. Just have it in the back of your mind not to dole out the $$ until after the deed is done (I use a white envelope just like with the pros). While I've only been with a few SBs, the financial aspects were always negotiated in advance so they never asked me for it during the date. Each time, I just slipped them the envelopes after we were finished in bed and the date was over.
Use your intuition and what you've learned here on TER and just take it as it comes. It's difficult to take a hard and fast approach for every time bc each of the girls are different and will have different expectations and tolerances. The lunch date/first meet should be the interview with the expectation that next date will include BCD time. Just be cool, focus on the connection, and be flexible and you will be fine.
Agreed--95% of the time, the money is exchanged at the END of the session, unlike in the hobby. In two cases, I gave the money up front because it was requested. The first was a scammer. The second was a quasi-scammer who thought one round over 45 minutes was perfectly fine. Though it's not easy to so, I'd recommend ending the date if the woman asks for the money up front. Tell her you have never done it that way, nor have your friends. If you wind up eating the cost of the hotel, that may be ok, because it's not as bad as getting ripped off.
I have a lady that wants me to drive to her place. She is about an hour away. She wants a bit more than I am comfortable with. I asked her to send me some more pics. Gulp. She has some large thighs. Not quite thunder. A bit of cottage cheese. Other than that very hot. But that makes me pause. How's this sound "you look real pretty but damn you got some thunder thighs" or "can I have some pineapple with that cottage cheese"??? Think I can get her down on het donation with those suave lines?😆
Good one, Devil!
I'm sure you'd hear Crickets if you even tried to crack a joke about those thighs. Thx 4 the laugh!
Don't know why
There are stars up in the sky
Stormy weather
since your other respondents have covered most of the important topics. First, all your questions have been discussed in very great detail over the past months on this forum. Go back and read the threads. Second, don't go to her place even if she offers. A friend of mine did that and had a very nasty surprise when her huge violent ex showed up, let himself in (yes, he still had a key, a tiny fact the girl had never metioned) and proceeded to beat the crap out of my friend.
Agreed--going to a SB's place has risks. So does you hosting or going to a hotel that she chooses. Additionally, a threesome with SBs you don't know is risky. One can be sucking our cock, while the other goes through your wallet, makes imprints of your keys, etc. Trust your instincts, do research on the SB if possible, and move slowly.
I may be an odd sorta duck among my fellow mongers and ex mongers on here because the way which I do this method (SugarBowl) goes against the grain of the norm but from my perspective, I have gotten better "quality" as opposed to my own past experiences whereby I was merely landing quasi hookers with less makeup and less BCD skill sets.
An allowance is not for the faint of heart and those who are not willing to take some risks in order to raise the potential rewards. Many of the SBs specifically state that "they are not pros" and / or "do not wish to be treat as a pro". This is not so much about granting those types their wishes, but rather about rolling with the punches to establish some elements of trust. Therefore, I do not discard the possibility of an allowance right off the bat and I do show myself amenable to the idea but I also point out to the POT SB that the allowance will only be agreed upon once the arrangement becomes a steady and a reliable one and therefore in the first month or so, the quid pro quo rules are strictly in force! Thereafter, I make a bimonthly deposit and if she flakes one time and fails to stick to her end of the arrangement, there will not be a 2nd deposit and I am out 500. I can live with that!
Regarding all the PUA stuff, i.e, Neg'ing and crap like that! IT IS CRAP! If you are a guy north of 40's and specially north of 50's do not resort to what younger whipper snappers do! Believe me I used to try this sh*t and now I reckon I lost more than I gained by playing the "college bro game". What gets you young p*ssy at this stage of life (let's call it mid age and beyond) is your confidence, experience and higher social status. Do not be a p*ssy whipped weakling and do not be a pretentious Playa either.
Lastly, I both liked and approve of he KL post and points which he suggested in the middle part of this thread.
LOL! I'm flattered. My SD success has been only moderate, partly because of my limited budget, but I have a network of about 10 guys and learn from them. And I coach them a little. A few of them have found wonderful SBs who are reliable, attractive, affordable, and willing to explore. They are often in the $300-$400 per date range and may get overnights for that rate, plus MSOG, CIM, some BDSM, and even Greek. Some guys are variety guys, and some are repeaters. Finding a good SB can take a lot of time and effort. When I find a good one, I tend to stick with her as long as possible.
I was only making a joke about the negs. That's not really my MO either.