I agree on what you said about respectful discussion on topics, vs. bashing people because they have a different opinion.
But I think there's more reasons why we don't see more posters here, including many who used to post but haven't been around for awhile. Here's the ones I can think of off the top of my head: * People who choose to post under an alias are told they aren't welcome here just because they're using an alias--which is a feature of TER VIP membership.* People who have different sexual practices--not harmful to anyone--than others are told they aren't welcome here, since there's obviously something wrong with them.
* Posters who are attacked aren't just attacked within a thread, and then it's done with... no, the attacks continue across threads, as if it's a big joke... yes, it was in 4th grade also.
* People are made to feel like second-class citizens here because (take your pick) they don't have as much hobbying experience as others, or as many reviews as others, or as many white lists as others... etc.
* People take a comment that was not meant to offend as a personal attack and blow up over it, rather than asking the OP to clarify his/her remarks. Train wrecks may be entertaining to some, but don't make for good discussion.
* An uptick in threads that reveal private information about members of our community. Safety and privacy are paramount in this business; who wants to participate in a forum where revealing personal information is commonplace?
* Showing a general disrespect for the female members of our community through the words chosen to describe them. Yes, the words can be shaken off--but not the disdain that's behind them. Who wants to participate in an online community in which we can't at least respect each other as human beings?
I'm sure many of you have been reading or posting on this "weird experience" thread from 2 days ago. (Sorry I'm not a 'link-attached kind of guy' so you'll just have to scroll down 2-3 threads to find it.)
Anyway, lots of bashing, putting down commenters, good advice, bad advice, excuses, negatives and positives all around. It's fairly easy for newbies to quickly see, from this and other threads, that there are White Knights and others. Sometimes they even change sides lol.
Is this really the best use of TER for all of us, providers and hobbyists alike?
I've seen the board be better than this. I've also seen it much worse.
There's really only so much any of us can do about the posters who contribute to making things worse. TER sets the rules on what people can post, not the members. That doesn't mean we ignore the trolls. But if we want the board to be better, we can't resort to their level when responding. The trolls may make their posts but if the vast majority of the posts are civil then they will be some for the small minority either.
I have been a member here since 2001 and have seen a lot happen here. What has happened in the last few years is really kinda sad. All the bashing that goes on by a few is just a sad state of today's world. And it seems to spur on others to do the same. While in the past we certainly had disagreements about topics people didn't bash each other to a pulp like what happens today. I absolutely think that if people have an opposite view of the topic to voice it but be respectful when you do. And people need to be just as respectful with any rebuttals. There is no reason we can't have many views on any subject and respect that some people have a different view and your most likely never going to change it and that's ok.
Maybe go back to the saying, if you can't say anything nice then don't say anything at all. But that might make it to boring around here so maybe change it to...
If you don't agree with the OP and what they said at least be civil about why you don't agree. And agree to disagree.
Ok that's my 2 cents on this. I know it will never be like it was before here but let's tone down the bashing.
Maybe go back to the saying, if you can't say anything nice then don't say anything at all. But that might make it to boring around here so maybe change it to...
If you don't agree with the OP and what they said at least be civil about why you don't agree. And agree to disagree.
Ok that's my 2 cents on this. I know it will never be like it was before here but let's tone down the bashing.
I had stopped participating on the boards as much because of the negativity but not anymore. If you can't be civil over disagreements then move on we don't want you here anymore. Like I said already let's just agree to disagree about things, say what you want but don't bash. No one is going to see things the same and that's fine, this is a discussion board after all and we all should be able say what we want about anything without the fear of someone bashing our opinions.
Periods of bliss, periods of shitty attitudes, and periods of crisis. I think your message is great. I hope others do too and maybe things will start to get at least civil again.
I agree on what you said about respectful discussion on topics, vs. bashing people because they have a different opinion.
But I think there's more reasons why we don't see more posters here, including many who used to post but haven't been around for awhile. Here's the ones I can think of off the top of my head:
* People who choose to post under an alias are told they aren't welcome here just because they're using an alias--which is a feature of TER VIP membership.
* People who have different sexual practices--not harmful to anyone--than others are told they aren't welcome here, since there's obviously something wrong with them.
* Posters who are attacked aren't just attacked within a thread, and then it's done with... no, the attacks continue across threads, as if it's a big joke... yes, it was in 4th grade also.
* People are made to feel like second-class citizens here because (take your pick) they don't have as much hobbying experience as others, or as many reviews as others, or as many white lists as others... etc.
* People take a comment that was not meant to offend as a personal attack and blow up over it, rather than asking the OP to clarify his/her remarks. Train wrecks may be entertaining to some, but don't make for good discussion.
* An uptick in threads that reveal private information about members of our community. Safety and privacy are paramount in this business; who wants to participate in a forum where revealing personal information is commonplace?
* Showing a general disrespect for the female members of our community through the words chosen to describe them. Yes, the words can be shaken off--but not the disdain that's behind them. Who wants to participate in an online community in which we can't at least respect each other as human beings?
To summarize:
The only reason to post as an alias is a nefarious reason. Please someone prove me wrong. The manipulation that occurs under an alias is problematic and out weights any conceivable positives. Post a convincing argument please. Just because it's a feature of TER doesn't mean it's a positive feature.
Knots what are you talking about with regard to people who have different sexual practices? You need to clarify...I must have missed something there.
Regarding your "second class citizens" point...it's my opinion that if you are serious about this pursuit you can survive a little challenge. Both newbie reviewer and newbie provider. I figured shit out myself along the way, and knowledge is power. Do you just let any person in your home when the doorbell rings knots? When I see newbie posts I have to push back a little sometimes...ya know to keep LE and those aliases/multiple handle types at bay.
If someone feels like a second class citizen because he or she ain't as experienced as me or don't have as many white lists as Wong or whatever other milestone...maybe you should strive to get credibility by grinding through it. Both provider and reviewer we navigate a world revolving around credibility and safety. If you don't review so be it. At least show me something in the discussion that leads me to believe you aren't someone that is either LE or a fake. I say fuck me for trying to be safe.
Speaking of train wrecks...why has nobody taken to task kram for his rage posts yet? I see another elephant in the room. Only I'm not going to paint it a pink one...Kram would have to confirm but it seemed like he was trying to denigrate by painting pink = feminine and weak. Yeah I found it interesting as a possible point to discuss but nobody else has mentioned a thing...
What is this uptick in threads that reveal personal info? I read this discussion board weekly, daily, hourly...please clarify what you are alluding to...
Your last point I find funny...ha ha funny...you are obviously talking about Talon. You are aren't ya? I like Belinda's post the best out of any so far this year. We are adults right? If anything I've learned in the hobby is that providers can handle their own shit. Some providers will post only if and when they see fit. It's not necessarily because they don't feel welcome due to a hostile board.
... that it's useless having a real dialogue with people who have closed minds. Here, or anywhere else.
But I will respond to your first comment because it more than anything else tells me not to hit my head against the wall. See the link for as good an answer as I've seen.
As for taking you by the hand and guiding you through examples in the board of my other points... I have a lot better ways to spend my time on this beautiful summer day than that.
-- Modified on 8/1/2015 6:37:50 AM
That is part of the larger issue here. Some people are really closed minded about things and no matter what you say your not going to change their minds. And that's fine but don't beat the dead horse either trying to prove your point on either side. Again just agree to disagree about it and move on.
I think there is an uptick in uses of the alias because of the bashing that has happened here. People want to say what's in their minds but if a few people are only going to bash you down why would you want to use your name? If the mutual respect came back to the board I think we would see the use of the alias go way down. Everyone is entitled to saying what they believe even if you don't agree. No one should be put down because they differ from your opinion. This is a discussion board there will be several different opinions with each topic, let's not jump down the throght of others you don't see eye to eye with.
Looks like the adults are on the board today.
Every once in awhile, the sandbox bullies decide to come out and push kids around in the sandbox for not playing like they do (according to their self- determined superiority).
"I've been in this sandbox longer"
"I've brought more trucks and toys than you"
"I've watched you play for a longtime and I saw you throw sand once, so here are shovels full on you"
"Didn't you just call me a name?" Wasn't talking to the bully. "Well, I'm going to take offense and go after you personally on behalf of all those I can image could be offended"
"If you can't play in the sandbox like I do, then you should leave"
Only bullies get opinions in this sandbox. Bullies use general comments as rationale for personal attacks. They take offense for everyone, so they can justify their bullying behavior. The bullied far out number the bullies. If a post has numerous "likes" and the bully's does not, that should be a clue to the bully that their superiority and stature in the sandbox is just a hallucination. They, as usual, are a legend in their own mind.... Nobody likes a bully.
Let's not forget those kids that like to swear for effect and to get attention. They'll say some of the dumbest stuff just to create a show that they can star in. No matter how much you try to distance yourself, they tend to follow you around trying to get you to react so they can have their needed attention. It's tough to play with these kids for very long, but they can be amusing for awhile.
It will be interesting to see who takes offense to this post. The bullies will feel attacked and have to reply. Let's watch and see who they are.....
...though it's had better moments.
The best moments, from my perspective, were when the posts went up largely unmoderated in real time. That was fun.
Aliases are fine too, incidentally. They have a well-precedented usefulness.
If there is something wrong these days it is that the threads are only occasionally making me happier or wiser, so I'll guess that might be true for others too.
Could add 'safer' to that list as well. Happier, wiser, safer, more connected... that sort of thing.
Without those possibilities there is really nothing to read for.
So I guess I'm not hoping for better behavior, just a bit more humor, and compassion, and anything else is a bonus. A bit like the incredible extra quality of Friday night's orgasm at the hands of a sweet new provider. That felt like a bonus too