Legal Corner

Are you trying to raise funds for sex workers organization??
PSEguy147 353 reads
posted

Telling me that is untested!! Do you see sugar babies or sugar daddies being arrested for prostitution?  
There is a journal article about sugar dating and it refer back to the MPC.  What you are telling me is that law students are not credible when they are writing this article.  

I already stated about court cases that legalizes mistress-lovers relationship. Why do I have to go any further.  Are you reading and comprehending the court cases I posted?

When you have a high number of state legislators are members of the bar association, they will seek guidance from the Model Penal Code.  

A revised draft will help to push for legalization legislation or help a court challenge.  The judges are not going to legalize something that is not recommended by the Model Penal Code to be legalized.  There are already court cases where judges said that you don’t have a constitutional right to commercialize sex work.  
The farthest legalization will happen is licensed brothel like Nevada.  The court system is not going to let anyone to sell sex out of their homes to strangers because it cause neighborhood disturbance.  

Going on a sugar dating or paying a girl next door is not going to land you 10+ years in jail. The most is a misdemeanor if it ever happens.  If it is noncommercial, the chances of getting in trouble with police are so rare. Police chiefs already state that they cannot arrest someone for just witnessing a prostitution transaction. They will have to record it and it must be done in front of an officer. (Unless the prosecutor is spending allot of time to put together evidence to nail someone.) Running a prostitution business can land you 10+ years in jail because it involves a commercial enterprise.

Are you trying to raise funds for the sex workers organization? That what you seem like you is doing. The judges are going to throw the case out just like they did in the past. Guaranteed!!

 
 
Posted By: DAVEPHX
Some of the ideas of the MPC are good (yes it is real).   But basically ignored since last updated in 1962 and in the few states that tried to follow some provision was reversed (Idaho in the 80s due to lack of morality provisions).  
   
 Sadly there is no current legal basis for most of your arguments based on current state laws.  
   
 But a valid point is what is the difference between sugar daddy dating and buying time for companionship not sex.  Totally untested lacking a serious case to try and the huge legal fees to mount a defense and almost certain appeal if State lost on a prostitution related case.  
   
 Without large legal defense funds many are facing 10+ years in prison if more than one person since more criminal enterprise charges are being sought especially in Phoenix but also other states.
-- Modified on 9/28/2013 2:03:51 AM

PSEguy1472092 reads

“ Section 207.12 is confined to sexual activity "for hire." Among the reasons for undertaking to repress prostitution, the danger of spreading disease is the only one applicable to non-commercial promiscuity.
Even on this score, non-commercial "promiscuity" appears to be less dangerous than commercial prostitution. Non-commercial prostitution involves indiscriminate acceptance of new sexual partners from time to time, but not intercourse with dozens of strangers daily. It any event, the health menace involved in amateur promiscuity seems to call for educational and medical remedies rather than penal law. The more serious dangers of professional vice are absent: necessity and means to corrupt law enforcement; incentive to coerce and exploit women; maintenance of criminal organizations and parasitic elements living on the proceeds of prostitution and therefore committed to promote the activity by finding new customers and new women to serve them. It should be noted also that a law punishing promiscuous, but non-commercial, sex activity would reach all males who seek sexual gratification indiscriminately, whether with professional prostitutes or amateur partners. This would involve contradiction of our policies on illicit extramarital relations generally-see Comment on Section 207.1-and on patronizing prostitutes-see Comment 8 below.

A case might be made for limiting the offense of prostitution to "promiscuous" sexual activity for hire. Requiring promiscuity as well as hire would, for example, bar prosecution of a mistress who is supported by her lover. Such situations fall somewhat outside the target evils of our Section, but the "hire" requirement itself is probably a sufficient safeguard, since the lover's financial contributions in these relationships are more likely to be interpreted as gifts out of general affection rather than "hire" for sexual activity. Another effect of requiring promiscuity as well as hire would be to exclude cases where a girl not generally engaged in commercial activity nevertheless consents to have intercourse on a particular occasion in exchange for a promised reward. Again this seems to fall outside the defined objective of the present Section and to impinge on our decision elsewhere that criminal law is not a useful or safe form of regulating private illicit sexual relations. Yet, acceptance of hire on one occasion is some indication of willingness to commercialize promiscuously. It would appear to place a disproportionate burden on prosecution to require proof of promiscuity in every ordinary prostitution case where hire is shown, merely to exclude possible prosecution in certain cases of meretricious relations which, in any event, are unlikely to come to the attention of authorities. “ –pg. 175-176 0600 Model Penal Code - Tentative Draft 9 144 1959

“Subsection (1) has been revised to meet in part the views of those who are skeptical of the propriety or utility of using the criminal law to repress individual immorality. It no longer purports to reach every engagement in sexual activity for hire. Thus, the possibility of applying the Section to the private mistress whose lover contributes to her support is now excluded. But we adhere, in paragraph (a), to the position of the previous draft that professional prostitution is criminal even if carried on in private.”  -pg. 236 1010 Model Penal Code - Miscellaneous 233 1962

What do you think about this comment on the MPC? If you want prostitution to be legalized, the MPC must be revised.

 Many state legislators get their guidance from the MPC when writing or voting on criminal laws.  The chances are very slim for prostitution legalization without these sections being revised.

 


-- Modified on 9/27/2013 9:28:58 PM

DAVEPHX479 reads

Some of the ideas of the MPC are good (yes it is real).   But basically ignored since last updated in 1962 and in the few states that tried to follow some provision was reversed (Idaho in the 80s due to lack of morality provisions).

Sadly there is no current legal basis for most of your arguments based on current state laws.  

But a valid point is what is the difference between sugar daddy dating and buying time for companionship not sex.  Totally untested lacking a serious case to try and the huge legal fees to mount a defense and almost certain appeal if State lost on a prostitution related case.  

Without large legal defense funds many are facing 10+ years in prison if more than one person since more criminal enterprise charges are being sought especially in Phoenix but also other states.

PSEguy147354 reads

Telling me that is untested!! Do you see sugar babies or sugar daddies being arrested for prostitution?  
There is a journal article about sugar dating and it refer back to the MPC.  What you are telling me is that law students are not credible when they are writing this article.  

I already stated about court cases that legalizes mistress-lovers relationship. Why do I have to go any further.  Are you reading and comprehending the court cases I posted?

When you have a high number of state legislators are members of the bar association, they will seek guidance from the Model Penal Code.  

A revised draft will help to push for legalization legislation or help a court challenge.  The judges are not going to legalize something that is not recommended by the Model Penal Code to be legalized.  There are already court cases where judges said that you don’t have a constitutional right to commercialize sex work.  
The farthest legalization will happen is licensed brothel like Nevada.  The court system is not going to let anyone to sell sex out of their homes to strangers because it cause neighborhood disturbance.  

Going on a sugar dating or paying a girl next door is not going to land you 10+ years in jail. The most is a misdemeanor if it ever happens.  If it is noncommercial, the chances of getting in trouble with police are so rare. Police chiefs already state that they cannot arrest someone for just witnessing a prostitution transaction. They will have to record it and it must be done in front of an officer. (Unless the prosecutor is spending allot of time to put together evidence to nail someone.) Running a prostitution business can land you 10+ years in jail because it involves a commercial enterprise.

Are you trying to raise funds for the sex workers organization? That what you seem like you is doing. The judges are going to throw the case out just like they did in the past. Guaranteed!!

 
 

Posted By: DAVEPHX
Some of the ideas of the MPC are good (yes it is real).   But basically ignored since last updated in 1962 and in the few states that tried to follow some provision was reversed (Idaho in the 80s due to lack of morality provisions).  
   
 Sadly there is no current legal basis for most of your arguments based on current state laws.  
   
 But a valid point is what is the difference between sugar daddy dating and buying time for companionship not sex.  Totally untested lacking a serious case to try and the huge legal fees to mount a defense and almost certain appeal if State lost on a prostitution related case.  
   
 Without large legal defense funds many are facing 10+ years in prison if more than one person since more criminal enterprise charges are being sought especially in Phoenix but also other states.
-- Modified on 9/28/2013 2:03:51 AM

DAVEPHX350 reads

I have no financial interest and am not raising any funds but support a group that is run by escorts but need $100k for a real legal challenge since expect to have to appeal etc.  

You draw too broad conclusions from cases you cite and misunderstand - I am following zillions of cases today not back 20 years ago. While your arguments have some merit there is no current case law to support most of your arguments especially related to MPC since the 60's.  Your arguments about commercial vs private are in my view way overblown in importance legally.  

Recently a prosecutor in I believe Oregon was asked why they don't go after sugar daddy's for prostitution and amazingly she said "because there are too many of them"

The best argument is no sex for money just time but seldom tested and not at appeals level. But if you have sexual terms implying you get in ad would be a tough defense.

Even worse if more than one person involved often being charged as criminal enterprise with potentially 10+ years in prison in many current cases especially in Maricopa Superior Court today.  

For example Lawrence vs Texas is a great argument but rejected many times by lower courts and it is not a prostitution case but about Texas sodomy law.  Today's more conservative Supreme's may have not held the same as the 5-4 decision with a more liberal court.  The arguments of in private and laws based on morality is a good starting point and we also have other arguments related to prostitution but would be a very long expensive legal battle that needs to be fought.

PSEguy147485 reads

I thought about raising funds for a federal lawsuit to overturn the prostitution statutes. I think is a great idea.  Please help DAVEPHX to raise funds for the federal lawsuit.  

I know that the lawsuit will be a looser. The idea is not to win the lawsuit. The real goal is to get federal goodies from the judges concerning the hobby.  Sometimes the judges will sneak goodies into the opinions.

Please express the DAVEPHX that he needs to instruct the sex worker’s organization to work something out with the newspaper and the media to makes sure there is no public press release. If we going to get goodies,  the public cannot know about it.  The judges are not going to sneak goodies when the public is aware of it because it will cause outrage among the Christian anti-sex trafficking groups.  

This lawsuit doesn’t guarantee any goodies. It is possible the judges don’t give any goodies. But it is a chance at getting some goodies.  

The judges may give us instruction on how to practice noncommercial escorting.  

 
-- Modified on 9/28/2013 12:48:47 PM

-- Modified on 9/28/2013 12:51:26 PM

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