Our styles and mindset is the same on this subject. I've blown off (regrettably) a few in the past by trying to transition them too soon into traditional dating but no more. If I decide to not pay, then I will call them on their NSA desire. Most BS that part because they want to repeal the clingers and the orbiters! Some men are really an embarrassment to their brethren!
Let's just strip away the idiotic con of guys who pretend to be players on a P4P site. Let's say one the P4P "players" was having Thanksgiving dinner with family:
Mom: Son, are you dating anyone.
P4P Player: I'm dating escorts and sugar babies. But they don't ask me for money--they're really into me.
Uncle (a conservative banker): If women are so attracted to you, then why would you need to see escorts and sugar babies in the first place.
Sis (a liberal professor): For the first time ever, I agree with my uncle.
Now everyone at the dinner table is looking at "Player" with a mixture of scorn & pity. Here's the problem for "Player": Your claims cannot withstand real world scrutiny. They can only be made within the confines of the P4P bubble, like this board.
To the rest of you: to believe these claims means that you'll believe anything.
To P4P "Player": you're really fucked up & need help. --z
Just because you are too cowardly (or secretly ashamed) to tell the world what you do to get your dick wet doesn't mean the rest of us suffer from your lack of courage.
You really are getting more pathetic by the day, no wonder you decided to take a few days off. Unfortunately you didn't get any smarter during your brief sabbatical from telling everyone exactly how this game is supposed to be played.
Did you notice in your absence, SEVERAL other posters have echoed my experiences in the sugar bowl, ESPECIALLY the part where the number one rule is that there really are no rules and that this is a game that should be taken as it comes?
Thanks GaG. You are the best to tell things as is. Each person is different, each person's status is different, each person's circumstances are different subject to change. This SD/SB world and escorting works differently for different players and there is no 28th amendment to follow!
Ok, lets drop the "might be" lol, but even I am not so arrogant as to tell people that "my way" is the "only way" to see sugar babies, or even hookers for that matter where the "rules" are much more defined.
I have simply done the same as most of the rest of us have done here, which is to offer up my experiences to see how they compare to those of others here. I just happen to do a LOT of that, but unlike Z, I don't get all butt hurt when others have different experiences than I.
My posts and the way I play this game are NOT meant to be a template for others, I am just offering my own perspective on the game and hopefully at least some of what I post others will find useful and incorporate into their own unique way of playing this game.
I get it that you're quite an odd duck in the way that you like to write stories and to tell stories, but this tiny corner of TER is so obscure that it doesn't need a top dog to lead the pack. Why do you feel that you will have to whip up controversy to draw attention to yourself? Are you really that insecure or do you suffer from disorders that prohibits you from getting along?
I've known of Gentleman GaGa on here ever since he was a Mod. He's always been a d*ck and a prick but he's charming about it. You on the other hand, are not a charming d*ck and a prick. I honestly don't have a dog in this fight but collectively we can help other SD noobs.
Just to be clear, I have often criticized Gentleman GaGa's methods, i.e, playing the SA turf without the crucial sugar outlay. That said, he's in a completely different market than me and SftD (we're local). That said, I also agree with Zig that a higher wealth and a guy with palpable social status can convince aspiring SBs to think long term by becoming less about financial gratification. Does that happen to me? No! Although I am comfortable, I am not wealthy by any means and I don't have an ostentatious lifestyle.
In closing, i have also cautioned other folks that GaGa's methods are not a set template for Sugar dating successes and in fact, I have repeated in the past few days that if someone does not have much experience on SA and this SD/SB realm, they'd be better off by mimicking you sans all that fluffy stuff you like to pad up your adventures with and should go into meeting with a POT SB willing to give them a Benjamin for a lunch or evening date.
I truly SMH at you at times!
Despite becoming petulant at times and throwing tantrums like a child while using an English major's words and phrases, Z ought to consider contributing with his own unique flair and flavor.
Yes, most of the world would think me a scumbag if they knew I was paying women over 30 years younger than me to have sex with me. A lot of the guys would be quietly jealous, too. Is this supposed to be some kind of revelation? Most of those people would also consider the women in question to be exploited, trashy, and lots of other bad things, but I would be the criminal. I certainly know this.
Does that somehow undermine the truth, or value of what is shared here? Seems like a personal attack, that you then are using to suggest one should not believe what someone, or maybe everyone, says. But doesn't that apply to everyone here, including you?
Personally, I have certain rules I follow, and they include trying to treat everyone fairly. This means paying a woman when it is a P4P situation. So I do not and would not try to screw an SB without paying, but I have seen enough to know that it is possible. In fact, I plan to post on that shortly.
zig
Of all the women I have seen in the Sugar World where I haven't paid for sex on the first date, all of them I continued to see I have ended up giving them money with one single exception and we ended up going down the BF/GF road together. (The vote is still out on this one) If we do end up as BF/GF you can bet your last dollar it will end up costing me a LOT more than whatever Z's typical "arrangement" is, as we have already started planning a few trips that will most certainly cost me several grand apiece.
Would this woman be seeing me if I weren't capable of taking her places a guy her own age could only dream of? Not likely, but the fact remains, she doesn't want to think of herself as a hooker by taking money in return for us having relations, she is more than capable of paying her own bills, but I "step up" her lifestyle by giant leaps without actually paying her for sex.
It reminds me a bit about how people would ask me if I was saving money on a "per pop" basis by traveling to Costa Rica to play on such a regular basis, considering the fact a typical 3-4 day weekend would run me at least five grand, you do the math, do you REALLY think saving money was my motivation?
Lets look at booze, if I buy vodka and I know I am going to mix it, I won't dream of buying good vodka and I will go out of my way to save 5-10 bucks on a bottle. OTOH, running up a five hundred dollar bar tab doesn't bother me even a little bit.
Food, I absolutely refuse to pay "Whole Foods" prices and I literally choke when I see filet mignon at almost 20 bucks a pound in the super market. OTOH, I spent five hundred bucks the other day buying lobsters for my crew to have a lobster boil on payday. That didn't bother me in the least.
Pussy, I will NOT pay HDH prices for pussy. I have been lucky living in Atlanta and Dallas for most of the last twenty years or so as the price for hookers averages around $300 hr in both cities, I laugh at women charging $500 in those markets and won't dream of spending that much. I am much the same with SB's, I am not going to pay $500 for a short "meeting" with an SB, but will I run up a thousand dollar dinner tab for the two of us? Yes, I will in a heartbeat.
I think where it comes to money there is a fine line between being a "bigshot" and being a "sucker" and sometimes those lines get very blurry. I can take a woman on a vacation costing ten grand and never bat an eye over the money, but if that very same women tries to hold be up for "guaranteed' $500 per session, most likely she is going to lose me to some other woman who has lesser demands.
None of this most likely makes any sense except to me, but you did ask. lol
At least you know what you are doing and admit it is a personal and somewhat random choice. Though I make similar choices - won't spend money in one place at all, but have no problem in another place. I suppose the key in this world is to find a lady for whom your style makes some sense.
I tend to pay more per hour than you, but that's all I pay. Not big on social time (we'll see if an SB changes that), gifts, or any other extras. I pay a good price and get what I pay for, end of story. Extra costs tend to bug me in P4P, though I will spend money for the same things with my friends and family any time. Personal style. I am mostly a cheap bastard.
We each draw our lines somewhere, and there are always other lines that make as much sense, maybe more, if you look at it.
zig
Our styles and mindset is the same on this subject. I've blown off (regrettably) a few in the past by trying to transition them too soon into traditional dating but no more. If I decide to not pay, then I will call them on their NSA desire. Most BS that part because they want to repeal the clingers and the orbiters! Some men are really an embarrassment to their brethren!
The same as all the rest of us.
I agree about social time with hookers, except when out of the country where the rates are so low as to hardly even matter, I too will NOT pay hookers for "social time" I don't buy hookers "gifts" unless we are actually dating, and I can't even think of "extra costs" aside from picking up a Latte for her on the way to my session. That's about the extent of it. lol
I think you pay more per hour than me out of necessity, I pay the going rate for "quality" in my market three hundred bucks an hour is more than enough to get a "high quality" lady in both looks and performance. Since I don't see any uptick in either by paying more, I don't see any reason to do so. I am sure if I were in a city where $500 was the benchmark, that would be what I would pay. and to the other extreme, when in Costa Rica where the benchmark is $100 hr, that's what I pay, I won't be "upsold" to $150 simply because I am a rich gringo who can afford it. It's not being "cheap" it just NOT being a sucker.