I was quite willing to let this go with "xray84" having the last word. Then you post this:
Most of my sugar arrangements have been fun. But I try to post about my difficult arrangements--those are more interesting. It was about this time last year, early fall:
I drive to the campus of my alma mater to meet an 18 year old College SB. It's our first date. It's September and she's an incoming freshman. I drive past the old college library (now renovated) where I once spent countless hours studying. I drive past the school cafeteria (now privatized) where I met my wife. It's odd---I'm still fishing in the same pond 30 years later. I'm supposed to pick up Miss SB in front of the women's dorm. But there are dozens of college girls milling around the dorm at lunch hour. I send Miss SB a text:
Z: I'm in front of the dorm, lots of people here. I'm driving a silver camry. What are you wearing.
SB: flowers at crosswalk…
That's a cryptic reply. Then I see her--a blonde goddess in a floral sundress, standing at the crosswalk. She jumps into my passenger seat without hesitation. Dear god, the natural beauty of these college SBs is quite astonishing. But I try to play the aloof gentleman.
SB: Hi!
Z: Hey there…so where we going?
SB: (laughing) Go straight, then turn left at the stop light. There's a sushi place that I love.
Over lunch I pitch the arrangement ($400 per week, intimate arrangement). She's really young & I try to keep it low key. She's new to the site & tells me that I'm her first sugar date.
Z: Just think about this & let me know. We can have lunch again sometime if you have more questions.
SB: I don't need to think about it. I want the arrangement. Don't you like me?
Z: Of course, you're a beautiful young woman. You can have any guy on the site.
SB: Does that include you. Or do you need to think about it.
Note here: This stunning college girl is throwing her panties at me on Date #1. There are hookers on the site who'll gladly fuck you on Date #1, but I'm not getting that vibe from her. You typically don't pick up hookers on a college campus.
Z: If we start the arrangement, then we both drop off the site. Can you do that.
SB: Yes.
I take her to hotel a mile away from campus. As I'm checking in at the front desk, she gets out of my car & stands beside me. The desk clerk is startled by her sudden, golden presence. We make a odd pair--an italian guy in his 50's in a summer suit, with unruly hair and razor stubble. Beside him, a blonde teenage valkyrie in a sundress. Any man who saw us together would think: that guy is one lucky bastard.
In our room, she's really shy as I strip her down. As I pull off her underwear, she instinctively covers her crotch with both hands. I stroke her hair & promise that I won't hurt her. Torrid sex follows. Afterwards we shower together--she wraps her legs around my waist as I hold her. Soaking wet and naked in my arms, she seems strangely waif-like & vulnerable. My Catholic guilt kicks in--if there's a Hell, I'm certainly going there.
After a few weeks of bliss, the sugar turns sour. She's now quick to anger & jealous. She thinks I'm seeing other girls (I'm not--I can't afford multiple SBs). But I casually mention a former SB who used to come to my house. Text exchange the next day:
SB: So when are you inviting me to your place.
Z: Babe, we've only been together for a few weeks.
SB: Right…I'm this sketchy girl you don't really know. You just FUCK ME, that's all.
Note: She has this uncanny knack of nailing me to the wall with her texts. A few days later, I pick up a staph infection from my wife (a teacher who catches every classroom bug). My ribcage breaks out into a rash. I text my SB:
Z: Hey, I've got a staph infection, I'll need to cancel today.
SB: I knew you'd cancel. I'm this sketchy girl who can't be trusted.
I book a room near the university and see her that day. I show her my rash, and keep my shirt on while we fuck. Maybe this was my last attempt to salvage this arrangement. But I'm exhausted from the staph & can barely maintain an erection. We have terrible sex, but she gets her allowance. When I get home, I'm amazed at how this 18 year old girl has played me like a violin. I ignore her texts all weekend, even her apology. I've really had enough.
On Monday morning, I'm at work & get this text from her:
SB: I'm crying in class because of you.
Z: This is ridiculous teenage drama. I should've dumped you weeks ago.
She goes radio silent. A few days later, I logon to my sugar site. Her profile is gone--not inactive, not blocked…her profile is completely gone. This surprises me. A month goes by and her profile never pops up. She's disappeared completely from my sugar site. Maybe she had another SD or jumped to another site, I really don't know. She was immature & jealous, but she was young. I was supposed to be the mature half of this arrangement. Instead I lashed out in anger & dumped her without warning. A month after our split, I send her a text:
Z: I'm sorry how things ended. I hope you're ok.
No reply. I never hear from her again. --
Good read.
Hate when they end sour. :/
Do you say anything in opening message to attract these girls? I tend to never get the really hot blondes to meet. They always seem to flake right before meeting. One thing I learned was to never reply multiple times between messages. They seem to ghost instantly.
I seem to struggle it seems keeping them engaged and interested on going the date, after they agree. Do you normally talk about them for a bit? I ask them what they are looking for, and sometimes will ghost right tnere.
-- Modified on 8/23/2016 11:26:55 PM
SB: Hey this is Allison, just got your msg on SA 
Z: Hi Allison, this is Zangari--thanks for contacting me. Will send pix in separate texts.
Z: (I send two recent pix--usually a "winter" & "summer" shot. In my summer shot, I'm slightly sunburned and my hair is lighter.)
Z: Just sent two pix, let me know if you don't get them. Text back if you're interested in a lunch or dinner date. I'll give 100 as promised, no strings.
Now she's got my pix and a reminder of the $100 offer. These girls get a ton of e-mail, so it's good to remind them that you're staking the 100. Then wait, don't send anything else. Some girls will drop off right here.
I was once in bed with my SB & mentioned the awkward exchange after texting my pix to a girl I've never met.
Z: If she doesn't reply, I feel like I'm back in high school--she's rejected me.
SB: Your pix aren't the problem. Her pix are probably fake. Once she sees your pix, then she realizes that you're not going to like what she really looks like.
This may be true--I've met SBs who didn't look anything like their pix. But there will always be some girls who just won't like your pix. You have to accept that. Even girls in the hobby often flake before a first meeting. If the SB texts back & we set up a first date, I don't text her again till the morning of the date:
Z: Hey, I hope we're still good for lunch today @ noon.
Avoid texting something like "what are you looking for". Save that for the lunch/dinner date. Avoid unnecessary texts--she's not your girlfriend. You must have confidence in what you're doing. Don't ever show that you're nervous or uncertain. Women despise weakness in men. My take: I spend way too much money on P4P anyway. I'll just bank the money if she doesn't show. --
Thanks! Helped a ton!
I already posted my first message template in the "Price of Sugar" thread. When an SB texts me for the first time, I usually reply the same way to all of them, see below.
SB: Hey this is Allison, just got your msg on SA
Z: Hi Allison, this is Zangari--thanks for contacting me. Will send pix in separate texts.
Z: (I send two recent pix--usually a "winter" & "summer" shot. In my summer shot, I'm slightly sunburned and my hair is lighter.)
Z: Just sent two pix, let me know if you don't get them. Text back if you're interested in a lunch or dinner date. I'll give 100 as promised, no strings.
Now she's got my pix and a reminder of the $100 offer. These girls get a ton of e-mail, so it's good to remind them that you're staking the 100. Then wait, don't send anything else. Some girls will drop off right here.
I was once in bed with my SB & mentioned the awkward exchange after texting my pix to a girl I've never met.
Z: If she doesn't reply, I feel like I'm back in high school--she's rejected me.
SB: Your pix aren't the problem. Her pix are probably fake. Once she sees your pix, then she realizes that you're not going to like what she really looks like.
This may be true--I've met SBs who didn't look anything like their pix. But there will always be some girls who just won't like your pix. You have to accept that. Even girls in the hobby often flake before a first meeting. If the SB texts back & we set up a first date, I don't text her again till the morning of the date:
Z: Hey, I hope we're still good for lunch today @ noon.
Avoid texting something like "what are you looking for". Save that for the lunch/dinner date. Avoid unnecessary texts--she's not your girlfriend. You must have confidence in what you're doing. Don't ever show that you're nervous or uncertain. Women despise weakness in men. My take: I spend way too much money on P4P anyway. I'll just bank the money if she doesn't show. --z
Do you think mentioning $400 right away in opening message scares them away? I would assume they know it has to be intimate for that amount.
It will most definitely scare at least some of the less experienced (some of the very best) girls off that they are crossing over into "hooker land"
Keep in mind that most of these girls like fucking, they like money, but they abhor the idea of being a hooker. Mentioning money so overtly like that will scare many of them away. and if she is a hooker you aren't going to be able to scare her away no matter what you do except for pleading poverty.
Besides, what if she would have been happy with $200, or conversely maybe she was set on $800? You've either overpaid or came off cheap depending on HER expectations
Are you fine with the $150 opening for lunch? Just wondering what your take on that was?
For me it sets the wrong tone, but Z and I are looking for different things. Z, and most likely you are looking for a set "arrangement" where you see her once a week (or whatever) for a certain amount of allowance with no blurring of lines.
I OTOH love to blur the lines and starting off by offering cash simply for meeting sets entirely the wrong tone for my first meeting. I approach my first date as a civvie date, by offering money for the first date you are doing more of a "job interview" than a "real" date.
If you are married I would NEVER suggest you follow my template as I am more than open to finding a girl that I can see 4-5 times a week, that's just not realistic for a married guy.
But to answer your actual question, if you are looking to find a hottie that you can see once a week "sex guaranteed" for a specific, not nebulous amount of money depending on her whims. (or belief in how high you will go) I say there is nothing at all wrong with offering the $100 or $150 for lunch. It does set the tone that this will be a business relationship and that you will have certain expectations.
BTW, once again speaking strictly for myself, I HATE lunch dates. Unless she's a hooker or a lush, your chances of sex on a lunch date are virtually nil. Give me a two hour dinner date with a bottle or two of wine involved and I will bet anyone that if she has any interest in me at all, my chances of scoring are pretty damn good. I am just that charming. lol For the record, I have NEVER had a girl ghost on me after a first date because I pushed too hard. but also keep in mind that I have been happily divorced for well over twenty years and besides hookers I have gone on a LOT of dates, most married or recently divorced guys can't say that.
Thank you for the advice as well. I am not married at all, I just figured the $100-150 offer for lunch or dinner would open the possibility of meeting more hotties and having them willing to go out with me more, then not offering anything off the bat.
I get way too many messages from girls I have no interest in and not enough from the ones I am interested or would be interested in.
As I said I don't do it myself, but I can see the idea has merit.
Z is successful his way and I am successful my way. My advice is to follow the advice that seems to suit you the best and discard the rest, the same as you do in the hooker world.
The idea that these girls would somehow "take offense" or be "scared away" by a discussion of an allowance is ridiculous. She's a sugar babe on a sugar site with a sugar profile that lists a "desired allowance."
OTOH, don't be vulgar about money. Be polite & respectful. Some guys look for more than P4P on a sugar site. Don't be one of those guys. There are dating sites for that. The top-tier College SB who you want to fuck--she already has a 21 year old boyfriend who's better looking than any middle-aged monger with delusions. You can still fuck her as long as you understand the play. --z
More than a few have told me I was the first guy they have responded to and that they ONLY responded to me because I didn't make them feel like a whore. Virtually every single one of these women were more than happy to hop in the sack with me. They liked sex, they liked money (which I have no problem providing) they just felt VERY awkward having any kind of discussion that linked sex to money. Not for the same reason as a hooker, it's just that many of these young girls are trying this for the very first time.
and it's also untrue that EVERY SB has a young stud BF. When you start doing overnights at HER place and whenever you return there is still evidence of you having been there, but no evidence of any other men having been there, she doesn't have a BF. Now do "most" twenty year old hotties have at least one BF? Of course they do, but lets quit painting with this broad brush and speaking in absolutes.
One thing to keep in mind, if the girl is only 18, just how much fucking experience can she possibly have at this?
Posts that have significant detail ring true to me. Even the sugar bowl newbies have provided more detail than all of your posts combined. I'm quite skeptical of anyone who claims great success but cannot provide even the slightest detail about one arrangement. That's the problem. --z
Just come out and fucking say it.
OTOH, since you seem to be the type who likes to both read and write reviews, which is most definitely NOT my style, if you would honestly like to listen to me recount the entire blow by blow of a couple of my dates, all you had to do was ask.
So which is it, are you trying to work up the nerve to call me a liar? Or are you asking me in a rather impolite way to share a few more details of my dates?
For what it's worth, you seem to be the only one here with this little "problem"
It's impossible to determine on a fuck board who's providing a truthful account. But as any cop will tell you, a truthful account usually includes sensory details, which you cannot provide here. So I'll say this: you have a serious credibility problem.
Why don't you two step outside and "settle" this mano a mano. Or something. But the squabbling is boring and contributes nothing useful.
That said, when you each post about your SA experiences, I'm listening, because I intend to try the sugar bowl. So, please, useful info, and let the readers decide who's credible and who's not
He gets rather territorial and downright cunty whenever anyone dares to challenge "his way" of doing things.
I certainly don't claim to be an "expert" on the sugar bowl, but neither are any of us. In my short time on SA however I am sure I have seen as many women, (a good two dozen or so) as most sugar daddies with years of experience.
Z has his way of doing things, his way tends to be rather rigid and businesslike, I have an entirely different approach. Some might like my approach, others might like his, still others might like a blend of the two approaches or something COMPLETELY different of their own. I often remind Z that his way is not the only way, but I don't stoop to calling him a liar about his experiences. Also reflecting on my posts here I have actually provided a lot more specifics than he has about my experiences, but I don't want to get into a dick measuring contest here. As you said, it's hardly productive, or helpful for those who are looking for some insight into the sugar bowl.
Maybe you are right, Hey Z, how about Pistols at dawn?
-- Modified on 8/25/2016 10:01:06 PM
I was quite willing to let this go with "xray84" having the last word. Then you post this:
For what its worth, I learn from both Z and GaGambler and neither are wrong. I enjoy hearing Z talk about his approach, what he spends, where he takes the women, etc. GaGambler inspires me as well and has a number of young ladies who are more interested in him then money.
I hope the disagreements you have do not cause you to hold back sharing your comments at all.
Keep in mind, too, different areas of the County set different expectations with these lovely women. So far I've been just being me. Warm, caring...always trying to make a woman feel special and needed and that has worked for me. At least in getting interest in me. Not sure yet how it will go when I get to meet them.