rightwingers made up that bullshit. plenty of vets opposed the war, and nobody was spit on. its a myth. bush has cut vets benefits and health care, and kerry fought for VA funding.
who plans on voting? I am.. Just thought it would be fun to figure out how many were, among this community. You don't have to say who you are voting for, but I am voting for Kerry
It's more important to vote this year than it has been in the past for me this time around. Ask yourself this question..."do I feel better about my job, health care, and safety today than I have in previous years?"
Can't say I answered yes to any of these with Bush around.
wb, that's a very valid point, and I agree with your statement. However, another point to consider is this:
If we keep Bush, we have a pretty good idea of the direction our country will go, for better or for worse. Is the economy recovering? In a way, yes...certainly not in a way that is helping ME yet, but it is recovering. Will more jobs be created in the future? Maybe. Will health care improve? We can only hope.
If we elect Kerry, we put in someone who has goals that appeal to me and make me want to vote for him, but he hasn't laid forth a definitive plan for how to achieve those goals. Plus, he'll be stonewalled in congress in any major initiative that he tries to put forth. Any 'progress' that has been made under Bush (and I'll leave the debate as to what progress has happened to your discretion) will be done away with and we'll have to start over again from scratch...back where we were a few years ago. Is that a bad thing? Who knows...if you can tell me the future, give me the winning lottery numbers and then ALL of our problems are solved.
See...THIS is what happens to ya when you're trying to find a provider available for incall at the last minute...it turns you into a political expert.
Please kill me.
Now explain to me how YOUR winning the lottery solves all OUR problems!
Hey now...I can see throwing a fun TER party with all of that money...hehehehe.
Let no fantasy go unfulfilled!
this moron is trying to pretend he is protecting me/us?
the world is more dangerous place. 3 trillion deficit - with china buying our bonds.... what a sell out...
ring wing christian in the whitehouse - give me a break, do you think he is hip on TER or "the Hobby"
a coward who was snorting coke when he should have been reporting for duty - this guy can support our troops - give me a break - he is an arm chair wannabe
cowtow to media consolidation - yeah lets just throw independent thought out the door
a guy like me in the white house? give me a break, the last person I want speaking for this country is Bush. Sure I would hire him to lay sod in my yard or maybe roof my house. yeah, he'd be a good restaurant owner. but sheesh - a president.
has everyone forgotten about enron, the patriot act, osama, the Neo Con / Conservative Christian agenda. Let them have their way another four years and they'll be targeting the boards....
Kerry isn't great, but ANYBODY IS BETTER THAN DUBYA. Down home boy doesn't equal common sense. Roofers should stick to roofing houses not running countries.
I couldn't disagree with that last sentiment more.
Would you vote for David Duke or Pat Buchanan over Bush?
Would you vote for Ralph Nadar or the Libertarian of the week over Bush?
If so, you are too extremist for me.
I'm not conservative... but geesh!
Oh, by the way, I am voting... I haven't decided who yet.
I will make the most informed decision I can. As of yet, I'm tending towards Bush, because Kerry hasn't really laid any groundwork for how he will accomplish anything. I know what I'll get with Bush.
well, actually, I am a libertarian - but I going over to the DFL side this round.
as for a record of accomplishment?
osama is on the run
more terrorist events than any time in history (world wide)
more anti-us sentiment than ever before
3 trillion dollar deficit
1000+ dead us soldiers
i am making less
more jobs overseas - tax credits for companies run by execs who get millions for unscrupulous stock manipulation
an armed service that is stretched to the limit worldwide
growth in nuclear capability of both Iran, North Korea and Pakistan
Huge terrorism recruitment bed in Iraq
A general tone of unwarranted fear. Al Qaeda a bozos with a few sophisticated operators and a bunch desperate morons. Cut the head off the snake. A culture of awareness not fear is what a leader should cultivate.
A nation of bully tactics. A just do it mentality. In one way, I actually hope he wins so we can really see what he is made of....
I have severe problems with both Bush and Kerry. They're both extremists on the political spectrum. Too bad we don't have a good, viable candidate somewhere in the middle who can actually bridge both perspectives...
While I dislike many of Bush's policies, at least we know what his plan is, like it or not. Kerry is still pretty vague about how he wants to implement many of his goals. Plus, if Kerry DOES get elected, he'll have a hard time getting anything passed with the current Republican slant of congress.
Call me...undecided. Just my $.02 worth.
Ya, I can understand your point..I just figure, pick the best out of the two liars.
It's really quite frustrating when both of them are so totally full of sh#t. Anyone who actually does any fact checking on either of them will find that both of them have built their platforms on unstable lies and half-truths. All that it's been for the past 3 months or so is:
1. One candidate waiting for the other candidate to make an error, no matter how trivial, so that he can pounce on him.
2. One candidate accusing the other of 'dirty politics' when they are both doing the same exact things.
It's truly a pathetic situation when you have people voting AGAINST a person rather than voting FOR a person.
Here endeth the rant...
I'm not to happy with the choices. We should have more than two people to pick from. But we don't, What to do?
I believe the present regime is killing a lot of folks in order to get votes. That is just sick.
Guess I go Kerry.
Yep. We sure could.
Actually, I agree with many of his ideals and goals, but I can't get over the fact that he has ZERO personal charisma and I wouldn't want him to go toe to toe with the other heads of state in the world arena. We can only hope that a viable third party will emerge...I think that one HAS to, considering that neither of the two main parties will currently go anywhere NEAR the middle. If you're a zealot for the extremes of either side...this is YOUR year to have an election.
Yep, I STILL have too much time on my hands tonight...
we could go Nader, Huh?
Nader is just a tool of Bush. In MN, the petition requirements are really low, but in other states most of his petitions were circulated by Rethugs, christian fundies, and other bigots to get him on the ballot. Even then, he's been disqualified from many states for having huge numbers of fake signatures on his petitions. Pennsylvania just threw his ass off the ballot.
Nader took Rethug money and he's mostly campaigning in battleground states. Even the Greens refused to nominate him this time. Nader's on a ego trip, he just wants to hurt the Dems and help Bush.
Voting for Bush is a vote for creeping fascism and four more wars. Kerry ain't the greatest, but it least he can read and think. Bush is a puppet for Cheney (the real president), the neocons, and the fundies.
Vote Bush......I am (no pun intended, although when you think about it, it makes sense...)
It may not matter to anyone, but I feel a lot safer with an offensive strategy than somone who is running decisions through the Corrupt U.N. system for support.... Give me a break. Bush = Spine Kerry = Spin. US citizens will continue to die as they have since WWI. We will always carry the burden of democracy and freedom, after all we are the only ones who understand what is at stake.... To any Vets out there, I luv ya just as I luved my Dad for putting it all on the line in WW2..
On a lighter note,...sure love the hobby....
I have been siting on the side too long....
by keeping the two parties so evenly balanced neither can implement their extreme views...let them argue & fume & get nothing accomplished...that way they won't pass anymore damned laws we don't need. Remember when the federal government shut down...it took us how long to notice? lol
Ah yes...the good old days...lol.
Actually, if that's what you want, then you should probably vote for Kerry. At least for the first 2 years, it would be a stalemate between him and congress.
Ah...let's watch the rhetoric fly!
Aside from the fact that Bush only became president because the right-wingers (or is that right wing nuts) on the Supreme Court carried out a bloodless coup d'etat (he did, after all, LOSE the popular vote) and aside from the fact that he may be the most intellectually challenged president in recent memory (i.e. he's an idiot), a vote for Bush virtually guarantees the appointment of another conservative right-wing justice during the next 4 years. Think that doesn't matter? Wait until these nuts over turn Roe v. Wade and a woman's right to choose; watch these nuts support LE in their quest to further infringe on our right, as consenting adults, to have fun in the privacy of our bedrooms. Or perhaps you feel we should all be in church right now rather than reading this board. The reality is whoever is elected president for the next 20 years is going to fight the terrorists if for no other reason that it would be absolute political suicide not to do so. At least with Kerry, we're unburdened by the ideological zealotry of the right wing that got us into Iraq --with the incredibly naive view to ANYONE who has studied Arab history or actually knows any Arabs--that we would be greeted as liberators rather than opposed like the occupiers we have become. Less than a century ago, the British learned the same lesson in Iraq. But, then I don't imagine that ‘W’ had time to read history books with all the partying, alcohol, and cocaine. We are in a real mess now in Iraq, and we are in MORE danger- not less- than before 9/11. I hope that we'll make it through, but it's virtually impossible to do any worst than Bush, Rumsfeld, and Cheney. Of course, if you believe that Jesus wants us to vote for Bush (God help you) or if your income is $1 million per year, I can certainly understand why you would want Bush to be president for life.
-- Modified on 10/13/2004 9:12:57 PM
Look, thats just my view. Yours is very different. That is cool. I say vote you will. That is what makes our country great. I welcome it.
Is'nt it great that this year the USA will have been instramental in allowing women to vote in the Ahganistan this month and in the January Iraq elections.
Who knows, maybe someday we will be smart enough to legalize the hobby.....
Hey In_Minnesota,
In all honesty, I completely respect your choice and your right to vote Bush (I just hope that you have an all-nighter with Misty or the provider of your choice the night before, sleep all day the next day, and not wake up until after the polls close). All of you undecideds, get off your a**, make a decision, and get out there and vote. This may well be one of the most important elections in all of our lifetimes.
And In_MN, we should get together after the election, get drunk, and look at naked strippers--like real adult males do. Winner buys the loser a lap dance.
Bush gets a memo saying we're going be attacked, and then takes a vacation. Bush is told about the attack and he just sits there listening to "The Pet Goat" until somebody tells him to move.
Read Richard Clarke's book. Bush totally ignored all the warnings of an attack. He didn't give a shit.
The hijackers were all Saudis and Yemenis. Not one was Iraqi. Saddam had nothing to do with it. Invading Iraq for 9-11 is like invading Mexico for Pearl Harbor. It's all about the oil. And Americans were stupid enough to believe all that WMD shit. Bush lies like a rug.
Aside from the fact that Bush only became president because the right-wingers (or is that right wing nuts) on the Supreme Court carried out a bloodless coup d'etat (he did, after all, LOSE the popular vote) and aside from the fact that he may be the most intellectually challenged president in recent memory (i.e. he's an idiot), a vote for Bush virtually guarantees the appointment of another conservative right-wing justice during the next 4 years. Think that doesn't matter? Wait until these nuts over turn Roe v. Wade and a woman's right to choose; watch these nuts support LE in their quest to further infringe on our right, as consenting adults, to have fun in the privacy of our bedrooms. Or perhaps you feel we should all be in church right now rather than reading this board. The reality is whoever is elected president for the next 20 years is going to fight the terrorists if for no other reason that it would be absolute political suicide not to do so. At least with Kerry, we're unburdened by the ideological zealotry of the right wing that got us into Iraq --with the incredibly naive view to ANYONE who has studied Arab history or actually knows any Arabs--that we would be greeted as liberators rather than opposed like the occupiers we have become. Less than a century ago, the British learned the same lesson in Iraq. But, then I don't imagine that ‘W’ had time to read history books with all the partying, alcohol, and cocaine. We are in a real mess now in Iraq, and we are in MORE danger- not less- than before 9/11. I hope that we'll make it through, but it's virtually impossible to do any worst than Bush, Rumsfeld, and Cheney. Of course, if you believe that Jesus wants us to vote for Bush (God help you) or if your income is $1 million per year, I can certainly understand why you would want Bush to be president for life.
-- Modified on 10/13/2004 9:12:33 PM
As a point of law, Bush won the election of 2000. Period. I personally agree that elections should be won based on popular vote vs an electoral college, but it's a moot point. He may not have won fair and square, but he won legally, so I have to respectfully disagree with you on the whole 'Coup de-etat' thing.
At the same time, I agree that the war was a severe misjudgement...we figured on the Arab world thinking like the Western world, and we're now paying the price for that lack of vision. Similarly, the Arab world is having a similar problem thinking like the Western world, as they see us as being a new 'crusade' with religious overtones.
I also have to respectfully disagree on Bush being an 'idiot'. I've seen many respected, intelligent men and women make errors...some of them catastrophic. Does Bush have a way with words? No, and I don't think that anyone would argue with you. We don't personally know the man, we only see news snippets that, based upon context or the lack thereof, can make him seem to be an idiot. I personally disagree with him on alot of things, but that doesn't make him an idiot.
Did he party when he was younger? You bet he did. I hope that he really ripped it up and did it all. Like most normal people that I know. Then...you grow up and mature. He got it out of his system like most of us did. He IS a human being, after all. I betcha Kerry did some wild things in his youth too. I won't fault him for it either.
This may seem like I'm supporting Bush. I'm not. In fact, I'm undecided. I just want to throw something out there for pro-Bush and anti-Bush people to chew on. Just remember that, for every finger that you point at someone, you've got three more pointing right back at you. Get beyond the man himself and vote on the policies.
Totally respect your right to disagree on the Electoral C. system vs. Popular vote.
One thing to always keep in mind, the founders of this country were so cool they anticipated that NYC, Los Angeles, San Fran, Chi could drive the popular vote by themselves. Leaving most states and towns out of the process. It may not always seem logical, (but if you think about it...it is), the Electoral procecc does allow fly over country to count. Bush/Kerry would not bother to visit or take care of Minnesota if it were Popular vote alone.
Just my two cents.
A very valid and excellent point that you have, and I don't totally disagree with it.
My problem is that an electoral college essentially says that a vote in New York is more important than my vote here in Minnesota, since they are weighted differently. Is New York more populous than Minnesota? Yes...but we live in a different world now with global information and news. In theory, everyone is exposed to the same rhetoric now, since we have such an instantaneous transfer of information. Back when the electoral college was set up, that wasn't the case, so a larger state COULD determine the election itself. The college, at that time, made it a more fair playing field for the states.
Times change. If every vote is supposed to count equally, then the popular vote should be used now.
Bear in mind, I'm NO EXPERT on ANY of this, and I'm willing to be wrong. Still, that's my opinion.
Crikey...what am I doing still awake?
Yes, but if we went by popular vote, NY would be weighted even MORE than Minnesota. NYC has more people alone than all of Minnesota.
--As a point of law, Bush won the election of 2000
Agreed. The Supreme Court put the stamp of legality on it. However, much has been written by legal scholars as to the twisted ruling produced by Scalia and company. They handed down a decision and specified that it should not be viewed as precedent-setting (??). Conservative justices--for all their talk of state's rights doctrine--voted to interfere with a state run election process that had been sanctioned by the Florida Supreme Court. This was clearly a high jacking --albeit, a legal one--of an election. “Coup d'etat” may not be technically accurate, but I am quite comfortable with the term as a colorful characterization of the net effect of Scalia's influence. (Yes, this is the same Scalia who recently went on a hunting trip with his good pal, Dick Cheney).
---I also have to respectfully disagree on Bush being an 'idiot'
Agreed. He is really not an idiot--that's how democrats have underestimated him. But he is clearly (and by many reports) intellectually lazy--which is almost worst, especially when you're the president. I mean, if he really were an idiot, we could forgive his lack of knowledge, his being poorly read (this is the man who proclaimed not to read newspapers), and his general ignorance of anything beyond Texas. But, he is not. He is a member of the privileged class who attended Yale and Harvard Business School. Yet, he expresses himself only slightly better than Dan Qualye (my 8th grader does this as well) and struts around like John Wayne (which I imagine is easy to do when you avoid going to the place where the enemy is firing live ammunition). No, strictly speaking, he is not an idiot. But, we all know people whom we refer to as idiots. In his case, it's all too easy to do so.
---Did he party when he was younger? You bet he did.
Actually, this is something I like about Bush. But, remember how the republicans had a field day with Clinton and the pot smoking and the blowjob. These same republicans hold up Bush as a saint, which he clearly is not. Personally, I don't care about the drugs and partying. But I would rather have a president who lies about pot and blow jobs than one who lies about Iraq & Al Qaeda connections and WMD, and whose lies (and incompetent war management) result in the DEATH and dismemberment of thousands of innocent young Americans soldiers.
----Get beyond the man himself and vote on the policies
Hey, I am way beyond the man. I would love to invite him to my stripper/provider party. But he should stick to telling jokes to amuse his friends and leave the policy making to the adults.
Once again, all valid points.
Isn't it great when people can discuss these issues without personally attacking each other? It sure seems like the country could use some maturity right now on ALL sides.
As someone who has sampled her French, I couldn't agree with you more.
This has been one of the more lively discussions that we've had in a while. What fun!
I just hope that everyone goes out and votes this year. Bush, Kerry, Nader, Cthulhu, whatever...let your voice be heard. If your candidate loses and you didn't vote, I certainly hope that you'll sit down and shut the hell up when the results are announced.
And if your candidate wins, be gracious and don't gloat. This will be a close election that has the potential to severely divide our country for a long time. Respect the process and respect the outcome.
First time voting Democrat for president. Kerry all the way.
My beloved Republican party should have figured out the problems with Bush in 2000. He's a RETARD! That jackass doesn't come close to representing what a conservative is.
I agree that Bush is not the best representative of the Republican party or of conservative thinking. I'd argue that McCain would be a better choice, but that's my opinion. And I respectfully disagree that Bush is a retard. Misinformed and not well-spoken, yes.
I'm not sure if Kerry is the best representative for the Democrats, though. Both of them are embracing extreme positions with little room to meet in the middle.
The next 4 years will be interesting, if anything gets done.
Gotta make this less painful somehow.
I have only had the plasure once, but Catherin Spiga would be a damn good choice for President.... Lets write her in.
Write in votes for anyone are votes for Bush, IMO.
Go vote! If you know for a fact that George Bush is an idiot, go vote him out!
Go vote for Kerry!
Drop the Kerry stuff, he is a money grubbing crook.....Marries millionaire woman...what is up with that...
C'mon, money grubber or not (Who isn't?), Kerry is the only reasonable vote.
for an older lady, Teresa's hot. She's portuguese, educated, smart, hot-blooded, a wild one. laura is a frigid ice queen.
and being a christian fundi, she probably no fun to fuck. no wonder bush was drunk all the time.
i much rather fuck teresa. and she's billionaire, not a millionaire. if you had the chance to marry a hot, billionaire ketchup heiress and didn't, then there would be something wrong with you.
I'd jump at a chance to vote for, no wait, I just spent my vote with her this afternoon.
Um...er....where are you registered to vote, Misty? I want to change my voting location to yours.
I know that THAT would bring out ALL voters. Although, I don't think anyone would remember who they voted for is you were providing the gh service, Misty.
Who won the election?
Who cares, let's go vote again!
Misty,
Is this the new "get out the vote" campaign? I think it just might work.
I mentioned Bush, Rumsfeld (Bush's right brain), & Cheney (Bush's left brain), but I forgot about John Ashcroft. How could I forget about Johnny, the man who lost the 2000 election to a dead guy. (Okay fact-checkers, he lost to the widow of his deceased opponent, who died suddenly just before the election in a plane crash. The voters in Missouri had a choice: Ashcroft or dead guy's widow. Guess who won).
This is a prude--I mean this is a man--who actually had sculptures covered because they were of naked women, reminiscent of ancient Greek art. He did not want their naked breasts showing. Can you believe this guy? This is what you get when you vote Bush--all the fanatics that come with him. Ladies, if you want to keep your day job (or night job as the case may be), vote Kerry.
In case you are not familiar with all of these names:
Rumsfeld: Secretary of Defense (in charge of mismanagement of war and covering up Abu Ghraib prison scandal)
Dick Cheney: Vice President (had to sit next to Bush during 9/11 commission testimony, so that Bush could keep his story straight)
John Ashcroft: Attorney General (saving us all from the moral decay of seeing too many breasts and giving bogus headline-grabbing news conferences about arrests of terror suspects who are later freed due to lack of evidence)
-- Modified on 10/14/2004 6:34:58 AM
Colorado will have a ballot decision to make regarding the potential to split the Electoral College votes based on the percentage of votes each candidate receives in the upcoming election. The amendment is #36.
Looks like both parties disagree with this formula and potential change and have threatened lawsuits if it is successful in passing this year. Could be another Florida 2000?
When I came home from Viet Nam we were greeted at the airport by filthy screaming members of John Kerry's group. We were called baby killers and spit upon. I will never forgive John Kerry. I don't see how any veteran could ever vote for him.
rightwingers made up that bullshit. plenty of vets opposed the war, and nobody was spit on. its a myth. bush has cut vets benefits and health care, and kerry fought for VA funding.
You know, I sat back and read these posts for the last couple of days and thought...no way do I get into this debate. Too many political know it alls trying to vividly express their views. The problem comes when some A Hole like EatP tells a vet who returned from Vietnam that he did not get spit on, did not get called a baby killer and did not get harrassed. My message to you eatpussy is to stick it up your ASS. If you weren't there, how can you say what did or didn't happen. Do not now or ever slander the credibility of our ex soldiers and what they have gone through. Honestly, if I could meet you, I would beat the hell out of you for that last comment.
Sorry to all of the others on the board about my ranting....his comment is just way out of line!
I didn't mean to post a message that would start a lot of anger and grief..I just wanted it to be fun...to me, diffrent opinions are fun..but by no means did I want to start something that would..well, turn into something hurtful to the vets that fought for this country. Sorry..
HoundDogger, you are right on. If you go to the Hanoi War Museum today you will see the pictures of two Americans that North Vietnam honors for helping them win the war. Jane Fonda and John Kerry. HoundDogger, I salute you and all the others who fought for freedom and liberty. I am sorry that our government screwed things up with the idea that we could fight a "limited" war. John Kerry is the last man that I want to see as the Commander In Chief of all our armed services. I want a man with clear values, clear vision, determination, and balls. A man I can count on to protect the USA without the permission of the UN or anyone else!