I am curious as to how many of you hobbiests (providers, too) would have a problem if your daughter (hypothetically, if you don't have a daughter) were an adult entertainer, particularly if she were an escort. Would her being an escort bother you more/less than if she were dancing, or if she were a porn actress? Why?
Also, if it would bother you, I am curious as to how you reconcile this with the fact that you are a "hobbiest"?
It would bother me because of the potential danger she is exposing herself to (the psychos in the hobby).
Hypocrital in that I am a hobbiest? Maybe. If I considered myself a psycho, then absolutely I would be hypocritcal.
I don't have a daughter. I don't have any children, so this is very hypothetical.
-Hoot.
I do have a daughter and it would bother me a great deal for several reasons:
1. I'd consider it a failure as a parent to bring her up in a way that she can provide for herself without having to resort to the oldest profession.
It's my view that most providers are in it for lack of an alternative source of decent income.
2. Let's face it the repetitive sex involved has its way of coarsening the personality so the distinction between love and sex becomes blurred(of course,not in all providers.
3.The dangers of exposure to STD.
Do you think that all escorts are "resorting" to the profession, and don't make the decision consciously and with full awareness?
Do I think that all escorts are resorting to the profession, and don't make the decision consciously and with full awareness?
Well, I prefer not to generalize but, the fact is that a high percentage of providers are young(18 -30). The motto "I wish we were endowed with wisdom in the first half of our lifetime and with physical prowess during the second half" applies to women in this group....Hope this answers your question.
that the motto mentioned is necessarily applicable here. I don't doubt that I am less endowed with wisdom now, being under 30, than I will likely (and hopefully) be past thirty. I don't doubt that later in life, I will probably have a deeper understanding of myself than I do now. But regardless of who I become in the future, I have a pretty good understanding of who I am today, and I am happy with my current chosen profession.
Do I lack "an alternative source of decent income"? Only by choice. I am basking in my youthful beauty while I still have it (for it's certainly only temporary, much like the height of an athlete's career), all the while making way for other options later in life. And, of course, I am not alone here- there are plenty of providers who have other jobs, and some escort for the same reason that you see escorts- because they desire intimate company as well. Is that only acceptable if you are on the other side of the fence (or coin, as the case may be)?
I do realize that you said "most", but nonetheless, you didn't seem to take this into account when it came to answering the question, "If I were your daughter..."
I'll get off my soapbox now 
I have to agree that if a young woman, such as yourself, chooses this profession wisely as a stepping stone to later life objectives, it certainly makes sense but requires immense personal fortitude to withstand the societal stigma surrounding this profession, not to mention the need to hide it from your own family!
I'm aware of the women you mention who are in it on a part-time basis for one reason or another or women "hobbyists" which makes sense as long as they have other life objectives in mind.But I still maintain that the vast majority of young women view it as an acceptable way of life with all the consequences I mentioned in my original post.
I may be naive,but most young women I know, dream of having a family at some point in life.So my question is, doesn't this profession complicate (or preclude)achievement of such a goal considering the limited window for having children?
BTW, I admire your openness and honesty.
But seriously, as long as she operated safely and ethically and enjoyed it, I would prefer that to any number of awful circumstance that befall maidens in our society.
As a hobbist, I make it a point to act in the same manner.
I am not morally ambiguous about the hobby or the sex industry. I would be proud of her if she's successful at it, but it would be a strange type of pride. It wouldn't be like I would watch any of her tapes or anything. An immediate relative's sex life is still very disturbing.
and like every other family relation, your mileage will vary.
Likewise, hobbyists vary in the way they approach matters.
I guess it comes down to what a given hobbyist thinks of a woman's motives in putting out.
Let's assume I had married my HS sweetheart and remained faithful for 40 years; and I don't think that's impossible. For me, it depends on her caring enough about me to accomodate me, as I expect to accomodate her. Yes, you have this intangible combination of both sexes marrying to assure reproductions - men marrying for sex (ie exclusive access to a woman), and women marrying for resources (protection and provision for herself and her children). Along the way, both of us are going to go out of our way to look out for and comfort each other; and I would be very surprised if there were times that she didn't put out solely because she thought I wanted it, just as I pay for her solely because she wants it.
So the difference between that and what we have here is conceptually only a matter of degree, except that very obviously, anything tied solely to money is so transient that it does not serve the purposes of stability.
It'd bother me as I'd feel that I've failed as a parent, whether you're doing it short term to realize a long term goal or you simply love having sex with different men (and getting paid for it at the same time); I've asked providers whom I've had close friendship with why they're doing this; most told me that when they got into this business, they didn't think they would be in it for long but they ended up staying in it for years because the money (not sex) is addictive. Many have ambitions in industries that offer limited opportunities so they're kind of stuck doing this because they've been in it too long and have found themselves not hireable because they've lost the skills they used to possess to get a real job. Very sad. I don't wanna see my daughter in that position.
I wish nothing but the best in their post-providing careers though I definitely would sorely miss some of the best ones in this business, especially the ones with whom I've had a long-term relationship with. I do wish I could still be their friends after they've retired to pursue their Hollywood dreams.
-- Modified on 1/8/2006 4:13:09 PM
-- Modified on 1/8/2006 4:40:31 PM
Then I could tolerate her being a provider. My life is built upon having a end in mind for any effort, I would want her to have the same philosophy. I have met many providers that were working for a goal and left once they had realized it, those ladies are the best models for a woman just entering the business. I have also met many providers that had no idea of how they could use the money that they gained to improve their lifes. I would not want my daughter to be the second type of provider, if I had a daughter.
...who I would not like to see become a provider because of the many serious risks--no other reason. I have no moral objection to people (including my wife and daughter) having as much sex as they want with as many partners as they want (assuming the responsible use of birth control and discretion), but I would advise against it because it is so dangerous under current conditions. For me, I'm truly glad there are so many wonderful women who accept the risks and I enjoy their company immensely, but I would never recommend that anyone go into this line of work.
But I would still love her the same. What would bother me? The loss of an innocent view of male/female potential. I think that sex industry workers (actresses, exotic dancers and escorts) see the frailty of human relations. And they see them at their worst, failed marriages, lost love, deception and the like...
Right now, I have the hots for a dancer - I have had the hots for an escort - but in both instances - what is sad - is that each lady has a view of male/female relations that is very tarnished. Does that stop my desire for them? No, but it does make a relationship much less probable... Each of them cannot relate normally to an evening out... or the request for "time off the clock" Etc.
How to reconcile... In talking with all of the escorts and dancers that have been or are currently friends with me I realize that this does happen - happens that I go to them and happens that they are there. does it bother me... sometimes. but the last act that I did was to get one person that I had feelings for was to a dr... to treat an infection (no not that kind!) so I must care... such is the human condition....
Which is why the radical right... or ultralib left scare me.... when people have such polarized views- it becomes more difficult to deal with the reality of life.
I am not sure you are going to get quite the enlightened answer you'd hoped for... Most of the men on TER and who see providers would not like their daughters to be involved in prostitution, date or be married to a man of another race, or use illicit drugs etc. Men really haven't evolved that far and most the responses fumbled the ball about because there is no one answer to your question and perhaps it will take some of them to find out that their daughters are involved to show them their true feelings. As for the hobbyist part, well, they do because it is not their daughters and they can pay to play and forget about all of the other shit that bothers them for an hour or two and because paying for companionship is a lot less of a hassle than chasing civvie whores in bars(and cheaper too).
It is natural to want your children to not be apart of what many consider to be the underbelly of life and at the same time, consort with the very thing that scares them. Life is full of these dilemmas. Perhaps, you would be better served to find out why people commit murder. There is hypocracy in any answer that says they wouldn't mind because if men were that evolved, more of their daughters would be doing this for money and society would truly see it as a profession.
-- Modified on 1/9/2006 7:21:07 AM
...this came out of left (or right) field...
From age six to twenty one when my wife and I then divorced. She was a very comely teenager and blossomed into a beautiful young woman. If she had gone into the "profession" I would have considered it pragmatic thinking on her part to take full advantage of what nature had afforded her. As luck would have it she turned out to be a self-righteous, condescending, prudish bitch like my wife and I pitty the poor bastard who ultimately marries her.
For the gentlemen (and ladies) who may contend that because she was not "blood" my dedication/love/devotion was or is not the same otherwise please be advised that whether by blood or marital "step" I would find it repugnant in myself to be so hypocritical as to indulge in and champion the hobby and then conversely be a NIMBY by actively dissuading a family member or friend from being a practitioner.
-- Modified on 1/9/2006 12:04:40 AM
& 'she turned out to be a self-righteous, condescending, prudish bitch like my wife and I pitty the poor bastard who ultimately marries her.'
LOL! Not impossible, I suppose.
I'm sharing joint custody myself, and finding that the kids are sorta navigating their way between their mother's schtick (lie about your psychiatric history, but still try to use it to manipulate others, and do whatever possible to get orders forcing others into "therapy") and my more light-hearted life.
"their mother's schtick (lie about your psychiatric history, but still try to use it to manipulate others, and do whatever possible to get orders forcing others into "therapy") and my more light-hearted life."
Conversely many providers deal with the constant threat or reality of the same governmental nanny-ing and punitive powers for their participation in the hobby.
-- Modified on 1/9/2006 11:40:53 AM
except that hyenas are generally less pathetic and repulsive than the low-lifes who believe they can only survive by meddling in other's lives.
Neighborhood nannies are NOT harmless; they are corrosive to an honest culture. Therefore, you should take every opportunity to try to convert them to a normal life, by giving them problems to deal with: slash their tires, paintball their cats, trick or treat them on Christmas Eve, etc.
I don't have children but if I had a daughter I would want her to be emotionally, physically and spiritually healthy.
If she is those things, then she will NOT be a brusque, pretentious doctor or a cynical, hardened escort or a drug-addicted, shallow stripper or a corrupt, ruthless politician, etc.
She will instead be an emotionally, physically and spiritually healthy doctor, escort, stripper, politician, etc.
I have two remarkable daughters! Although it would not be my first choice, only due to the hazards associated with the Provider profession, I would support them in whatever path they choose.
I have met many wonderful, classy, goal orientated providers, who have used this avenue to finance their education for other careers, and also spent time with others that will retire comfortably, after years of excellent Provider service.
Hypocritical Hobbiests should be reminded .... every single Provider out there was once, "Daddy's little girl", and I would assume .... probably still are!
Everyone is someones daughter... Most men dont think that I am someones daughter..being that they dont care... They came to fuck..not wonder about my family..
I'd teach mine how to make all the money she can in this industry.. at the end of the day.. we are all whores of society.. going to work and following rules to get our paycheck at the end of the week.
This industry is only dangerous if one lets it be dangerous.. so is crossing the street. But we look each way, watch the red /green light, and make sure its safe to cross.
Its really that simple.
-- Modified on 1/9/2006 9:45:26 AM
I'll go you one further...
I am in an industry (construction) that used to be full of honorable and loyal people.
It is now infested with cut-throat cheaters who don't pay bills and try to squeeze you and 10 other people for the chance to get screwed again. Compared to the escort field, construction is where the real "whores" (Said with irony of course.) are.
I would much rather my daughter associate with the nice people on these pages than the ilk who I associate with in Construction.
..less than if she married a loser.
What a hypocrite that so many hobbyiests expressed appreciation to their ATF and said how much they respect the profession and yet no one want their daughter to become a provider.
I happened to have two daughters. My older daughter is currently in medical school and I am proud of her choice. She will have a huge student loan to pay off before she will earn close to an escort, and by then she will be in her 30s. The younger daughter has just started college and doesn't know what she wants to become. Once she asked my wife what kind of job she can do that will allow her to dress pretty clothing, don't have to work hard and long hours, and can earn good income. My wife teased her that she can become an escort. I silently agree but in no way I would want her to become an escort.
It used to be that mothers urged their daughters to marry a rich man (many still do). SO...what's the difference!?
Oh, it's not that some of you seem hypocritical, as that doesn't really affect we sex workers. What bothers me is the fact that many of you seem to view us as somehow lowlier than any other professions (and there are plenty professions that are more dangerous than adult entertainment). Is it really that hard to imagine that some of us are in here, not as a "last resort", but because we choose to be? That some of us might be using our intelligence and skills towards other areas of life, yet are savvy enough to realize that beauty, open-mindedness and passion are marketable attributes as well?
In any case, I thank you all for your replies, and to those of you who don't look down on me because I am an escort- thank you.
but rather am saddened by the ultra realistic view that they develop of the world.... and it does change their view of relationships....
In fact, I respect a lot of escorts simply because they are honest, and somewhat self-satisfied with their lives.... more so than a woman in a bad marriage with an alcoholic husband, or a mild mannered man in an abusive marriage....
The perception that you must have and your ability to share that with me over time, has made me realize just how rare good marriages are.... very good question - and one that is well worth asking.
well if she can handle the rude ones and know how to be safe than it grate. Also lot of providers dont save for what offter early retirment. Also I seen providers have kids with unknow daddies. I dont like seeing providers uses birth control other than comdoms because they care more about being pregnet then a STD. But I would her rather get nock up by a hobbyies than a one night stan bar fly that she can't find. In the rair case that it may happen if she saving she may be able to support the kid Vs being a wellfair slut.