This became such an issue when working at the 2 ranchs that I worked. One used to have a special line up bell if there was so much as one black man in 5 viewing and picking from line up. The other was an open bar and was owned by a black and white couple.
The biggest problem with the girls was this. The girls that would refuse to see black men for the most part were girls with black boyfriends or pimps.
Should girls say this on their websites.....perhaps........but, it would suit a black man best if once he made contact he politey said that he is black and if that is an issue for you then I'll understand. He may not always get the response that he is looking for but if I were in his shoes I would have to say that it would be better than being stood up at the front door when I have my heart set on having a great time.
It's not all needed for me to hear......but, I find it respectful that a man tell me something about himself that may be of an issue such as he's overweight, or that he has some issues with sex, or his orgin of birth.
We are all out their on our website and reviews with photos and reviews....The client knows what they are getting. You should feel comfortable in doing the same. Like I said, to most girls it does not matter......but, it only takes one to hurt your mood and crush your spirit and no one that is spending good, hard earned money deserves that.
Who knows.....maybe this girl has a black boyfriend that doesn't feel so threatened by what she does provided that she doesn't see anyone that he would deem as a threat.
Write or wrong......I'm not here to judge. But, there are ways to protect yourself from that kind of hurt.
Just my thoughts,
X's Summer
This was Posted by plsr-skr on the Atlanta board and I thought I'd post it on here to see what you ladies and guys think about this:
I write this letter to let you know the impact of your actions. I made an appointment with you based from your online advertisements and reviews. We talked on the phone to confirm and all was good. When I arrived at your location you did not answer the door. I knocked several times and was concerned I had the wrong apartment number. After a short while I called you from my cell to have you answer and explain to me, “I don’t see African American Men”, you are not racist as you have Black friends, it is nothing personal, and that you were sorry.
Well being the upscale, professional gentleman that I am… I mentioned that I have great references, that it was hard not to take it personal, that I was sorry as well, and left.
Yes this is a true and accurate description of our interaction. There were no raised voices or harsh words (other than “I don’t see “I don’t see African American Men”) or prolonged conversation from either of us. I just left – HUMILIATED.
To find you had viewed me through the doors peephole made assumptions about me and decided not to see me is a conundrum.
I too am an independent business owner and understand the challenges that go along with the freedom. I respect all individuals’ rights to choose in all personal areas of life. However when in business and we advertise to all people, we accept interactions with all people. If there are limits to our services we make that CLEAR.
I do not question your right to be selective, just be up front with clients and yourself in your advertising and then again on the phone prior to an appointment. If you are not willing to publish that you do not see - “African American Men” or only see “White Men” - it makes me wonder what you are ashamed of. To have clients get to your door and turned away is CRULE and unnecessary. Let us know your preferences in advance and EMBARRASSING situations like this can be avoided. If you are concerned that telling the truth in your advertising will make you look, well, “selective”. Then you probably are “selective”.
You mentioned to me that you are not racist with out any accusation on my part and that this is not personal. After thinking about these statements only one can be the case. We have never met before and do not know each other personally so I can conclude that this indeed was a case of racism. I am not taking it personally this was business and by your action and self described “issue” in this incident, you are a racist. Have your Black friends read this and tell me if they think I am wrong.
I know this profession has many contradictions, I just ask you and all providers to be upfront with being “selective” and avoid being EVIL to hobbyist who are just looking for a good time.
I hobby for the variety, I love all women. This has never happen to me before. I am well spoken, MBA educated, in good shape, and very well groomed.
Assumptions, stereotypes, and prejudices hurt us all. I understand this issue from a variety of perspectives - not that it matters – my mother is Caucasian of Italian decent and my father is Latin of Caribbean decent…
I have seen it both sides and I have long advocated that ALL providers state their preferences on their websites. It's not a small thing to travel to someone and have that happen or to be stood up for that matter. If a lady, B/W/A/L, other has preferences, state them. It goes to show you that it takes all kinds in any human endeavor. Shame on you Provider X.
Ladies can see who they please. The only thing I ask don't let me get to the door and you turn me away. Don't waste my time because I would never waste your, tell me up front you won't see me. Some ladies are worried about their reputation if people find out they don't see African American men.. I have never "out" a lady because they wouldn't see me. Just respect my time and let me know up front. It's their lost and money..lol
She takes your donation, provides terrible service and makes you feel unwelcomed. I've been there.
Yes, all providers should advertise their preferences.
EDIT: added link
-- Modified on 12/6/2005 6:19:24 PM
...because I've been there. I have, at times, a strong attraction to black women, but many refuse to see me. They don't come out say "It's because you're white" but that's what I've heard backchannel. :-'(
I can't count the number of times I've heard, through the door, "Oh I'm sorry, hon, but I think you have the wrong apartment."
And you scared them with your bald head..lol Why would any black woman turn you away Lex?? They see me..lol
...not all pasty and gross. In certain light, I seem to "glow" and that frightens many ladies.
Classic example: a few months back there was a TER Happy Hour in DC. One of the ladies who attended was this dark-skinned beauty I'd admired for a long, long time. I gave her my best Lex-Luethor-seductive-glance and "POOF!" the next thing you know...I heard she found Jesus. 
-- Modified on 12/6/2005 7:53:28 PM
This very sad open letter along with the responses brings up a very real conundrum. How can a provider exercise her right to afford her service to the races and/or ethnicities she wishes and advertise such without being demonized by the community as a whole? As mentioned by several members. Whether financially, morally or ethically prudent the woman does have the right to set her preferences. If however she states in her mall ad or website that she does not accommodate certain races or cultures she will surely be castigated and made a pariah on every TER and other discussion board.
If this community wishes providers who may harbor certain prejudices to promulgate them in their advertising so as to save potential clients time, effort, expense, indignation and hurt then the senate of the politically correct will have to in fact shut up and respect the pragmatism of the advertiser.
FR.
I have also seen it NOT happen to providers who posted their preferences as well.
I think that it is probably better to post it and at least not mislead anyone, and for those of us who speak out for a providers choice to see anyone they wish in the most intimate act possible to support them if they are attacked.
My sympathy to the OP...he summed it up well, and I hope many providers will respect his professionism and sensitivity and make him feel better soon.
for a provider to not want to chance the backlash. Forgive me for soap-boxing here but PC has become the 400lb gorilla of the new millennium. Major department stores are afraid to use the word "Christmas" for fear of pissing off the PC Nazis yet a provider is now expected to advertise she has personal race preferences. I too think it only fair that a provider make such personal preferences known to potential clients. The problem is what is fair isn't necessarily prudent. Two weeks ago a veritable lynch mob formed on this board because a guy had the moxi to go against local status-quo and say he preferred boob jobs to natural breasts. He had nothing to lose perhaps but his pride. With an example of mob INtolerance such as that to go by what woman seeking to build a profitable business would dare publicly announce she prefers one race over another. Until the "Army of Tolerance" learns to practice what they preach the scenarios described by ‘newbie1972’ and ‘Lex Luethor’ will unfortunately continue.
-- Modified on 12/6/2005 11:16:43 PM
-- Modified on 12/6/2005 11:20:48 PM
then they need the cojones to deal with the response.
We have laws against civil assault (ie immediate & credible physical threats), and no laws against unpleasant speech, for very good reasons - unpleasant speech serves a valuable social function, see the 1st amendment, and note it extends to commercial speech.
People who stick their nose out in public and can't deal with the occasional rant are pathetic, and should stay indoors lest they impede the normal traffic of life.
SO WHAT if somebody says somebody is prejudiced? SO WHAT if somebody says boob jobs are nuts?
I'll tell you what, some pathetic loser is gonna claim their self-esteem has been hurt, and somebody's gonna listen to them instead of LAUGHING at them. If they're too fragile to deal with ideas, then they should STAY OUT OF PUBLIC, and leave it to people who can cope. I am SO FUCKING SICK of people whose claim to justify their life is their emotional fragility, and that because they claim to be victimized by what they think I might be thinking, that I should orient my life around their inadequacies. It's pure manipulation, very common on political fringes (ESPECIALLY the loudmouthed low IQ radical right) and will eventually destroy the GNP.
The bitch was prejudiced, and dumbassed too. Sounds like she turned away good business, which is her perogative, but somebody should say it, so others learn without her stupidity. THAT'S WHY HUMANS HAVE BRAINS, SO THEY CAN USE THEM!!!!
No, I am not LIVE FROM NEW YAWK!
"and for those of us who speak out for a providers choice to see anyone they wish in the most intimate act possible to support them if they are attacked."
Please define "support" because it may be hard for the gal to pay the rent with only "lip service" as payment for her honesty.
I was talking about if someone is "called out" on the board because of them posting their preferences on their site, so what I meant by supporting them was making it clear that their stating preferences is not something they should be castigated for. I doubt that there would be an "organized boycott" that would demand something to the extent of subsidies. If the woman's reviews are good and she has a good site, I doubt that the incident is going to really affect her business that much. Maybe I am naive, but that's my impression.
We all make choices daily that are forms of discrimination. I for one, don't like big women. That's my taste, and I choose not to see them. If a lady didn't see me because of some characteristic of mine (perhaps my wit offended her), that wouldn't be unreasonable in my mind. But when it's race, everybody's PC meter goes to overload. I think the real issue here is that she blew him off! It's unfortunate that we notice things like color, and make decisions based upon them, but if we do, it's still our right. If some lady refuses to see me because of my bias towards thin ladies, then I must deal with that. Granted I'm the customer and perhaps entitled to being more choosy, but "companionship" is a fairly personal thing.
My first reaction was negative, but on second thought they did the right thing. At the risk of being accused of being a racist, they are being honest and have done the hobbyist community a service.
I would rather not getting rejected when I show up or, worse, receive an awful service.
Tell me up front and I will move on. My money will go to someone that can tolerate me..lol
She could put it into a form email headed with her preferences.
I am not going to harass any woman for this. If she receives harassment, it will probably be from the clients she bars pre-emptively. That can't be called a PC issue.
You get it wrong putting it in terms of PC: it's also PC to respect a woman's preferences no matter what. The only PC people who wouldn't weigh it that way, are the "chauvanistic" PC people.
"She could put it into a form email headed with her preferences."
Good idea.
"It's also PC to respect a woman's preferences no matter what."
Good point.
I do hope that you know that the majority of girls are not like this. I still do not understand why these things are posted here and not on reviews. This industry has been taken over by insanity, dishonesty, racism, rudeness, muggers, killers, theives, rip offs, bait and switches. The list could go on..
It is a terrible shame and please dont let it hurt you. Move on. Karma sucks. She will find out..
...flame-haired temptress from Buffalo who travels the entire country, except for DC. Why? Because of her aversion to fat, pasty, bald men! Ok, it's not exactly racism, but it's prejudice nonetheless.
:p
No session, no money exchanging hands, no review. It's a blindspot in the review system.
I don't believe the industry has ever been free of the evils you list. The review system started as a way to combat the real criminal element that's has always made life difficult for the truly good providers and clients. The only thing that will combat that is legality. We can't keep the criminals out when we have no legal protection, and when we have to fear LE as much as any mugger.
Racism and rudeness are different matter.
I have a place for your physical description. I could care less if you're green, white, black or polka dotted. What matters to me is that you treat me with respect. However, I do like to know that the gentleman I'm looking at through the peephole is the gentleman who made the appointment. Even when it's an RS2K member and they are verified I'll say, tell me about yourself. I think it's prudent to describe your physical self even if there isn't a place to do so. That whole scenario you related would have been avoided. She never would have made the appt. in the first place and you would have been spared a humiliating experience. I think it was totally unprofessional, cruel and uncalled for. I'm so sorry it happened to you.
Sincerely,
Anneke
Brotha! I sypathize with this situation, not unlike many I've heard of during my storied life and many I have rejected.
I love you my brotha!!! Move on!!!!
Tra
-- Modified on 12/7/2005 10:28:31 AM
This was the best articulation that could have ever been written about rejection - and the personal embarrassment and hurt that rejection inflicts. Sir, she was not worthy of your time.
...Many, many moons ago, I was rejected because of the (legendary) size of Little Lex. Therefore I think it's possible that this woman might have rejected you over size-issues (let's face it, that rumor is out there), rather than real race issues.
After an assault by a black man, being chased while walking (he was in a car) by another, a violent mugging by another, a death threat in a bar from another (I had declined to accept a drink from him), and an intentionally inflicted cigar burn from another, not to mention (and I don't understand this) being called a some pretty horrid racial slurs by more than several others for no apparent reason while simply walking down the street, I tend to shrink in fear when strange black men approach me.
After all this, to be frank, if I got a call peppered with slang typically used by urban black individuals, I would find a polite excuse to decline the appointment.
HOWEVER, I was called by many a gentleman, who sounded like any other articulate, courteous human being. When they showed up and "happened" to be black, it required not even a moment's consideration to welcome them warmly and proceed with the session.
I realize that my own unfortunate experiences, and the seemingly ubiquitous reinforcement of stereotypes via the mainstream media, and certain segments of "urban" African-American culture, have caused me to develop prejudices. I admit it freely, just as black people who behave with hostility toward whites should admit their own prejudices. When you're treated badly by several people, any people, it's natural to look for a pattern so as to avoid harm in the future. Skin color just happens to be an easy common denominator for people to latch on to. It seems like this is a faulty mechanism which kicks in at a primal, utterly illogical level.
That said, it is our duty as human beings, to rise above our id. I can't help but feel terribly for the many educated black men and women who have to work twice as hard because other ethnicities have had negative stereotypoes beaten into their consciousnesses from their earliest years and beyond..and because the MINORITY among poor blacks who are jerks/gang bangers, etc, are also the most visible and vocal. So, when a black gentleman would knock on my door, I would remind myself that he had spoken politely and articulately, and that he probably often feels like he's being scrutinized. I made a firm decision to recognize that prejudice is MY PROBLEM, and that there is absolutely no valid reason to make it his. I looked at our meetings as an opportunity to be a better person, and to show him the warmth and compassion which is EVERY decent human being's natural right.
Personally, if someone else isn't into *my* ethnicity, I'd rather not be with them. I'll bet the gentleman behind the orig. post fees the same. But I'm glad I chose to broaden my horizons on several fortunate occasions. I was rewarded with some wonderful clients who are good, hard-working, resilient, intelligent people who just happen to have dark skin. And the funny thing is, if you're with that person for a few moments, you don't think about their skin color any more than you do when you see a beautiful little baby of any color. Good is good. Beautiful is beautiful. Pure truths cannot be obscured by trivialities like race, or age, etc.
Anyway...that was a brutally honest, but well-intented missive. Flame away if you think I'm a jerk for beng honest. But like any chronic tendencies, there is no "recovery" or cure until you admit you have a problem.
Be kind to each other.
who's gonna accept a date from OJ Simpson?? Your comments are right on.
This is the real experience of lots of people. The problem is something even Bill Cosby does not think at all funny, that black culture gets identified almost exclusively with crime, etc, and people don't think of the individual they are dealing with. Yeah, it's true that a large proportion of black men have been in prison, but that's a historical and social fact, not the doing of the person in front of you, but you can't know unless you take the risk to deal with him.
What we're talking about is dealing with your experience in this particular context - which is more sensitive than the usual commercial transaction.
So there's the possibility that this girl is more fearful or less bright than the average bear, and can't figure out that a guy that talks like he did is more likely an MBA than a druggie.
She still owes it to herself and everybody else to find some way of saying something like, NO SCHWARZES, eh? After all, Halle Berry won't fuck me, so I guess it's fair [w]
Maybe she was a bit startled that you didn't fit the mental image she had in her mind about what you were like. I am assuming that you spoke with her on the phone as well as communicated with her by email. Being well-educated and articulate, free from an accent that would place you in a certain category/identify you, etc she may have assumed that you were not black because she couldn't 'tell' you were black.
How many times have I had this happen in civilian world where I spoke with someone on the phone for a job interview, doctor's appt, beauty appt, etc and the look of (!!!) that I am not what they imagined I would be. This happens more often than one would think. I also remember meeting someone online to go to the movies and imagining a tall, white male, probably brown hair, dark features, etc..and yet when he showed up, he was an Asian guy. After the initial surprise, we had a fun time.
I am sure we have ALL experienced it..think of phone sex...the hot woman moaning into the phone that you'd swear was marilyn monroe reincarnated could very well be your fat, asthmatic neighbor next door (ok, Im not PC, mmkay?(smile)). Or...the woman/man that you chatted with online but never saw a photo of them...then met them in person and who you're like...wtf? It happens! In this particular case, it had a racial element that left a negative feeling for both parties and shows her inability to see past color. To make a distinction: Your articulate, well-groomed manner is NOT a front, it is a reflection of your education, background, etc..but she didn't see that, she had a disconnect between who she thought would appear at her door and who actually did.
On the flip side: For women in the entertainment industry? Happens to black strippers/models/actresses all the time...call on the phone, the agent/manager loves you..show up...they're full/they'll get back to you. C'est la vie, eh? Sad commentary on the state of the world: Can blacks ever fully assimilate? You met the requirements of being a professional, MBA, well-groomed, articulate, $$$...but you're black...damn, how'd you slip through? Sorry...I feel for you and I deal with this all too often. Luckily, it takes all kinds to make up this world we live in...don't fret...take your money where it's welcome!
Kiss,
Naomi Madrid
I was one that happen to slip by dear..lol Nice post.
[she was not worthy of your time.]
exactly
Next time let her know that he is Af-Am to avoid this situation ...
Everyone is required to disclose their ancestry; have your genealogical chart ready before you call.
-- Modified on 12/7/2005 5:05:22 AM
one thing I have never been able to figure out is how somebody who has kinky hair and is otherwise as white as I am, with all the cultural mannerisms of Rush Limbaugh, somehow qualifies as "black". Man, that is SO FUCKED UP.
So yeah, anybody has the right to be really weird here, like get into the middle of the act and say, "ah, I can't do this anymore". Sure, she's not a common carrier, but she has put herself into a commercial activity, and basically what she's done is call the deal off because of a matter of personal preference that SHE KNEW ABOUT in advance, and HE DIDN'T.
The problem is mindlessly and automatically equating this fellow with Willie Horton or OJ SImpson. YEah, I know, I look a lot like Charlie Manson, except for the Adolph moustache, but I never get any comments.
You keep talking shit about me, and I'm gonna have to do the same to you as that cracker that was doin my wife.
We gotta fight between OJ SImpson and Charlie Manson!! Cool!! Who has the Uzis??
not unless you show up handcuffed and want your ass beaten with a baseball bat.
. . . regardless of ancestry!
-- Modified on 12/7/2005 5:07:31 AM
I understand. She's not wrong in her preferences. We all have them, from Height/weight to whatever. She was wrong in how she handled it. PERIOD. Very unprofessional. Doesn't make her bad, evil or anything else. Having experienced similar behavior in strip clubs, i.e., dancer approaches patrons on either side of me, but not me, or everyone in a group but me, when I ventured into this realm, I made it a point to ask if my ethnicity would be a problem, KEPT THEIR RESPONSE PRIVATE, thanked them and moved on. Fair or not, she has the "right to refuse service to anyone", just like any other business. Just be professional about it.
sorry to hear this bruh, allthough Iv'e only been hobbying for a couple of months I allways tell the provider or girl that I'm black. Called many of times and women say "are you black"(i guess i cant hide it in my voice). And I really dont take it personal ... Its always the next beautiful woman who will... But I understand the feeling bruh, move on my man and be appreciated by a woman who is open. Again please dont take it personal I felt same way and said to self "what the F" but oh well ? ... gotta enjoy the ride !!! or hobby while it lasts... ITS LIFE !!!
for her, well this disgusts me...Yes we gals have the right to refuse. But, when were in this kinda of business you almost with 1/2 a brain think that you'll meet men of all races and if your not willing to do that...you have to in some way disclose that so no one is wasting time and effort to got through the whole process.
What was done to you was totally out of line...And as far as the excuse maybe she was afraid of your zipper size...that's even more
F--k up, she needs to find another line of work.
I thought your letter was great....
Take Care, Babe
Lots of hot kisses and warm hugs to you....
Terri
-- Modified on 12/8/2005 7:49:20 AM
Hmmm, I'm a little suspicious right about now.
I've known many African-American men in the course of my life -- in school growing up, at work, as casual acquaintences, as friends of friends, and not one of them would ever admit to paying for sex. Not as a lark, not as a drunken goof, not out of boredom or curiosity, not even at a week-long bachelor party, not overseas in the military in an active combat zone, not just right out of prison after 7 years, never. Admitting to cash for sex just wasn't in any of their self-images. The closest any of them ever came was admitting going to a strip club and treating THEIR FRIENDS to a lap-dance.
The men were, however, your typical ghetto underclass guys living in the housing projects coming from a fouled up home environment with all manner of social pathology. Poor bastards, I really felt for a lot of them.
Our poster is a middle-class educated professional and that I assume makes the difference. But I suspect that this is a put on post to test the reactions.
This became such an issue when working at the 2 ranchs that I worked. One used to have a special line up bell if there was so much as one black man in 5 viewing and picking from line up. The other was an open bar and was owned by a black and white couple.
The biggest problem with the girls was this. The girls that would refuse to see black men for the most part were girls with black boyfriends or pimps.
Should girls say this on their websites.....perhaps........but, it would suit a black man best if once he made contact he politey said that he is black and if that is an issue for you then I'll understand. He may not always get the response that he is looking for but if I were in his shoes I would have to say that it would be better than being stood up at the front door when I have my heart set on having a great time.
It's not all needed for me to hear......but, I find it respectful that a man tell me something about himself that may be of an issue such as he's overweight, or that he has some issues with sex, or his orgin of birth.
We are all out their on our website and reviews with photos and reviews....The client knows what they are getting. You should feel comfortable in doing the same. Like I said, to most girls it does not matter......but, it only takes one to hurt your mood and crush your spirit and no one that is spending good, hard earned money deserves that.
Who knows.....maybe this girl has a black boyfriend that doesn't feel so threatened by what she does provided that she doesn't see anyone that he would deem as a threat.
Write or wrong......I'm not here to judge. But, there are ways to protect yourself from that kind of hurt.
Just my thoughts,
X's Summer