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The kelly See my TER Reviews 608 reads
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thank you for taking the time to point this out and for such a thorough explanation.  My guess is that P411 will be thanking you, too.  Since a bunch of providers will probably take this suggestion and work on their profile there a bit.

Posted By: DrunkTextOn
In talking to several ladies during my visit this past weekend I realized some providers may realize how a lot of us out-of-town visitors decide who to see when we come to Vegas, given that, on any given day, there are around 370 local and visiting girls listed on P411 for Vegas.  How do we guys land on a choice?  We don't want to get mired down in over 300 profiles.  And we don't want to roll the dice (at least not in a Vegas bedroom) and be disappointed.   So a lot of us begin by narrowing the field, focusing on a couple of keep activities that we like in a couple of focused searches both here on TER and, more particularly, on P411.  
   
 So, if you as a provider have not taken the time to update your P411 profile to check those certain items that are on your current menu, you are likely never even making the first cut for many, many, many guys' initial narrowing searches.  And so you will never hear from us, but some other girl will who has check relevant activities on her P411 profile will.  Some providers may assume other providers are not listing particular services on P411 because they see no services on that provider's page, but many providers use the "do not display" function on P411 to "hide" the boxes they check from the casual P411 viewer, yet those checked boxes will still show up in any guy's P411 provider search.      
   
 Examples of relevant narrowing menu items on P411 would be, for instance, Role Play, BBBJ, Dirty Talk, Submission, BDSM, BLS, and I suppose Video/Photos (referred to as the "allow film or picture" review category here on TER for the past few months).  
   
 We guys are busy, but we know what we like:  By doing a couple of searches I quickly narrowed 371 girls down to a manageable 25 on P411 in probably 10 minutes.  I was then able to quickly narrow that group down to a dozen or so women that I was interested in choosing from this past weekend based on a combination of price and personal preferences in looks.    
   
 To take two of those P411 categories, I am frequently amazed at how few girls check "Role Play" or "Dirty Talk" on their P411 profiles, yet when you meet them, they are totally up for (and great at) either.    
   
 Most girls spend a lot of time getting good photos, taking care of themselves to look gorgeous, and answering texts and messages, but what I think some might lose track of is that they would have more quality contacts if they took a few moments to fully list the services they are actually up for -- that way they make that all important cut when we guys do our first searches to try to narrow our choices down to girls who are willing to do at least one of the things we enjoy when behind closed doors.  Of course, we all know a lady always reserves the right to change her mind, and that any item is a YMMV proposition.  Indeed, YMMV is even a check box over on P411.  ;)

DrunkTextOn1296 reads

In talking to several ladies during my visit this past weekend I realized some providers may realize how a lot of us out-of-town visitors decide who to see when we come to Vegas, given that, on any given day, there are around 370 local and visiting girls listed on P411 for Vegas.  How do we guys land on a choice?  We don't want to get mired down in over 300 profiles.  And we don't want to roll the dice (at least not in a Vegas bedroom) and be disappointed.   So a lot of us begin by narrowing the field, focusing on a couple of keep activities that we like in a couple of focused searches both here on TER and, more particularly, on P411.

So, if you as a provider have not taken the time to update your P411 profile to check those certain items that are on your current menu, you are likely never even making the first cut for many, many, many guys' initial narrowing searches.  And so you will never hear from us, but some other girl will who has check relevant activities on her P411 profile will.  Some providers may assume other providers are not listing particular services on P411 because they see no services on that provider's page, but many providers use the "do not display" function on P411 to "hide" the boxes they check from the casual P411 viewer, yet those checked boxes will still show up in any guy's P411 provider search.      

Examples of relevant narrowing menu items on P411 would be, for instance, Role Play, BBBJ, Dirty Talk, Submission, BDSM, BLS, and I suppose Video/Photos (referred to as the "allow film or picture" review category here on TER for the past few months).

We guys are busy, but we know what we like:  By doing a couple of searches I quickly narrowed 371 girls down to a manageable 25 on P411 in probably 10 minutes.  I was then able to quickly narrow that group down to a dozen or so women that I was interested in choosing from this past weekend based on a combination of price and personal preferences in looks.  

To take two of those P411 categories, I am frequently amazed at how few girls check "Role Play" or "Dirty Talk" on their P411 profiles, yet when you meet them, they are totally up for (and great at) either.  

Most girls spend a lot of time getting good photos, taking care of themselves to look gorgeous, and answering texts and messages, but what I think some might lose track of is that they would have more quality contacts if they took a few moments to fully list the services they are actually up for -- that way they make that all important cut when we guys do our first searches to try to narrow our choices down to girls who are willing to do at least one of the things we enjoy when behind closed doors.  Of course, we all know a lady always reserves the right to change her mind, and that any item is a YMMV proposition.  Indeed, YMMV is even a check box over on P411.  ;)

thank you for taking the time to point this out and for such a thorough explanation.  My guess is that P411 will be thanking you, too.  Since a bunch of providers will probably take this suggestion and work on their profile there a bit.

Posted By: DrunkTextOn
In talking to several ladies during my visit this past weekend I realized some providers may realize how a lot of us out-of-town visitors decide who to see when we come to Vegas, given that, on any given day, there are around 370 local and visiting girls listed on P411 for Vegas.  How do we guys land on a choice?  We don't want to get mired down in over 300 profiles.  And we don't want to roll the dice (at least not in a Vegas bedroom) and be disappointed.   So a lot of us begin by narrowing the field, focusing on a couple of keep activities that we like in a couple of focused searches both here on TER and, more particularly, on P411.  
   
 So, if you as a provider have not taken the time to update your P411 profile to check those certain items that are on your current menu, you are likely never even making the first cut for many, many, many guys' initial narrowing searches.  And so you will never hear from us, but some other girl will who has check relevant activities on her P411 profile will.  Some providers may assume other providers are not listing particular services on P411 because they see no services on that provider's page, but many providers use the "do not display" function on P411 to "hide" the boxes they check from the casual P411 viewer, yet those checked boxes will still show up in any guy's P411 provider search.      
   
 Examples of relevant narrowing menu items on P411 would be, for instance, Role Play, BBBJ, Dirty Talk, Submission, BDSM, BLS, and I suppose Video/Photos (referred to as the "allow film or picture" review category here on TER for the past few months).  
   
 We guys are busy, but we know what we like:  By doing a couple of searches I quickly narrowed 371 girls down to a manageable 25 on P411 in probably 10 minutes.  I was then able to quickly narrow that group down to a dozen or so women that I was interested in choosing from this past weekend based on a combination of price and personal preferences in looks.    
   
 To take two of those P411 categories, I am frequently amazed at how few girls check "Role Play" or "Dirty Talk" on their P411 profiles, yet when you meet them, they are totally up for (and great at) either.    
   
 Most girls spend a lot of time getting good photos, taking care of themselves to look gorgeous, and answering texts and messages, but what I think some might lose track of is that they would have more quality contacts if they took a few moments to fully list the services they are actually up for -- that way they make that all important cut when we guys do our first searches to try to narrow our choices down to girls who are willing to do at least one of the things we enjoy when behind closed doors.  Of course, we all know a lady always reserves the right to change her mind, and that any item is a YMMV proposition.  Indeed, YMMV is even a check box over on P411.  ;)

DrunkTextOn971 reads

Have a great September!

DrunkTextOn908 reads

. . . if your profile on here on TER is incorrect (price is outdated, now offer availability of photos/video, will bring a second provider, etc.) I believe the system administrators will generally correct your profile page on here, but that is sort of beyond my realm of first-hand knowledge.  But that is what I believe girls have indicated to me, particularly as to updating donations.

Will correct/change a profile.  You need proof and it has to be approved by TER adm

it is a good idea for a provider to list the activities. Reviews are as listed on the guidelines "fantasy writings" but activities listed on p411 are not really fantasy

DrunkTextOn530 reads

. . . nothing is a good idea.  :)

I suppose many thousands of P411 providers over the past 15 or so years and many hundreds of thousands (geez, probably millions) of P411 searches by many thousands of guys over the years could all be wrong.  I suppose.  And I suppose the thousands of individual provider personal websites listing services offered could all be wrong, too, for that matter.  My sense is that P411 has equivalent disclaimers to TER.  But I am not really trying to convince anyone of anything, least of all what is wrong or right in any aspect of human existence of the hobby community, particularly not for any particular provider.  

Rather, as I noted for gorgeous women who spend literally thousands of dollars on hair and makeup and photos and gym memberships and website design and everything from bra and panty sets that make one's jaw drop to high heels that make a man weak in the knees (and countless hours posting on TER, answering texts and emails and phone calls), I think the decision by providers should at least be a knowing decision to then not even make many visitors' very first cut in the selection process time after time, day after day, week after week.  I understand the choice of some is simply to list a name on P411 and leave it at that.  That's cool.  I presume that choice saves wear and tear on that pesky phone ringing!  :)

Posted By: DrunkTextOn
. . . nothing is a good idea.  :)  
   
 I suppose many thousands of P411 providers over the past 15 or so years and many hundreds of thousands (geez, probably millions) of P411 searches by many thousands of guys over the years could all be wrong.  I suppose.  And I suppose the thousands of individual provider personal websites listing services offered could all be wrong, too, for that matter.  My sense is that P411 has equivalent disclaimers to TER.  But I am not really trying to convince anyone of anything, least of all what is wrong or right in any aspect of human existence of the hobby community, particularly not for any particular provider.    
   
 Rather, as I noted for gorgeous women who spend literally thousands of dollars on hair and makeup and photos and gym memberships and website design and everything from bra and panty sets that make one's jaw drop to high heels that make a man weak in the knees (and countless hours posting on TER, answering texts and emails and phone calls), I think the decision by providers should at least be a knowing decision to then not even make many visitors' very first cut in the selection process time after time, day after day, week after week.  I understand the choice of some is simply to list a name on P411 and leave it at that.  That's cool.  I presume that choice saves wear and tear on that pesky phone ringing!  :)  
If thousands or millions like you said want to state irresponsibly that they perform illegal activities it is their prerogative as mine is not to see them. Fortunately, there are many who understand that and those get my business.

DrunkTextOn413 reads

. . . we are saying the same thing.  

As I said, doing a P411 search of 371 Vegas girls brought that overwhelming array down to only 25 girls, so you are right: a lot of girls are not using the services listed option on P411.  But, unlike you, I am not sure that is as knowing a choice by everyone as it may be by you (particularly as I think P411 allows you to hide your list of bedroom activities, so they only show up, so to speak, when a guy does a search).  

What I was surprised by was that various of the girls I saw had not really considered the process by which busy guys (who, for instance, cannot use a computer at work and whose wife and kids may be in their phone or home computer at any time) necessarily do a quick search on the fly to arrive at a manageable number of girls to choose from.  For those of us who do not live in Vegas and who are busy, a P411 search really is key, and so I do not think my post was meant for you, as a provider who is making a knowing choice, but for any girl who has not thought about it much.  Or not.  Take it for what little it may be worth.  

-- Modified on 9/5/2014 4:33:12 AM

I agree with you it would be nice to see all ladies menus and then we know what to expect.   even reading reviews sometimes they are inaccurate as some gentelman will fabricate what really happened so the lady can get a higher ter  score.  I know many ladies are very private about what they offer on their  menu for what ever reason.  I respect that and they can are free to conduct their business how they want.    I look at it this way,  most reputable ladies in Vegas with good reviews are probably very busy or have steady work.   just because they have for example 30  reviews doesn't mean they only saw 30  guys.   let's be real I regular with a reputable lady in town and I don't review her everytime  we meet.  I also know I'm not the only regular guy she see's  in town.  

I understand how frustrating it can be to decide who to see in regards to services offered.   for example I look  for ladies who like kissing and msog.   most reviews I read vary from,  she didn't kiss me,  not  into it, or  we made out  like  high school lovers.   and the msog some ladies only offer that if you book  at least a 90 min  visit even though their ter  service offered  says yes.   what I do is I just email them directly and ask them what I'm looking for.   in my option if they don't want to answer my question then I assume the answer is no and I move on to someone  else.   most ladies I ask don't seem to have a problem with me asking those questions.  

 I research extensively and what I find is that most girls menus are probably ymmv.  some girls don't offer some  services  because it's personal,  safety issues,  depends if they are into you are not.   remember reviews are a " fantasy  and one sided story of what happened".  I wish their was a better  way to find  accurate info on ladies but it's not foolproof.   that's probably why I stick to the girls I trust and I don't really give other ladies a chance.   I've been burned in the past so I'd rather see someone I trust even though I'm not getting everything I'm looking for.   just my two cents!!!!

You really expect providers to answer explicit questions via email or phone? I learned one thing, never ever ask questions regarding services or prices via email. If I provider mentions that in an email I run the other direction. You simply do not ask if she performs an illegal activity especially via email or phone, which you should know are not private since the email service and authorities can read them as they please.

yes I know the proper educate about email conversion.   after reading what you had to say you are right.  I didn't realize the safety issues regarding email conversion and who could be reading what I'm talking about.  I thank you for opening my eyes on that subject.  I just wish there was a better way of reviews being more accurate so then you get what you are looking for and  not disappointed.   don't get me wrong I've meet some great ladies doing this and I've had a great time but I've also been burned too many times in the past.  perhaps I  just have to realize that I'm not going to get everything I want in doing this.  anyway thanks  for your  reply!

Thanks for a thought-provoking conversation. Much to consider.

As someone else touched on it could be due to legalities
Since relocating back to the US from Australia I had to completely overhaul my website as sexwork is completely legal in Australia most providers sites usually give descriptions included how well they "suck and fuck" (these are actual terms that appear on their sites) and obviously in USA a provider wouldn't say that
Likewise by listing services they could be incriminating themselves

Myself I don't care
However I don't always list some services just because it's YMMV
Do I like greek? Hell yes I love it!!!  
But with a gentle caring considerate man I personally don't enjoy hard slam porno style greek .... so I don't list it I chose who I will allow after I've spent time with them

One bad thing about having done some hard rough porn is I get hobbyists contacting me for rough style sessions they don't seem to understand that the scenes are highly edited with lots of breaks and it's really "acting"
So I've learned the hard way to limit what I do on film and keep my P411 to just activities I will do with any client

I'm so glad you posted your advice on this topic.   you totally make scene with your ymmv comment.  I always assumed if a  companion didn't want to do a certain sex acts with you it ment she wasn't into you.  I didn't look at it as a form of  respect because she feel you are a nice guy and may not be comfortable doing that particular sex act.   I always figured the ladies in the porn  industry  usually liked aggressive,  dominate men and had no use for nice guys.  I guess you can't judge a book by its cover.

This may be a dumb question, but I always wondered what does YMMV mean??  Can someone help me out with this, I'll appreciate it

So much goes into running this so called hobby as a business...well worth the effort, and input such as yours is always very welcome. Thanks again.  Hope u had a great weekend- always always play safe!!

Xo Clair

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