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Dr. Phil-ip 2607 reads
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...It's only about 10% of me that wants to interfere with his situation. But, you have to understand, I am the one who raised him and we have always had an open and communicative relationship. I raised him to be independent,  do his very best to resolve issues how he feels best, and if he makes mistakes, well, learn from it and right the ship. But, most importantly, I would always be there if he needs a helping hand, or heart, or second opinion.

He's the one who came to me this past summer and he told me about his 'internal dilemna'. He feels he knows what his career choice will be, but, what he really wants in life is to be 'a family man and he doesn't know how he could ever achieve this in his present state and if he meets someone really special, and she's been around the block enough to know a good lover from a bad one, well, she might dump him because he was a clumsy, inept lover'.

Well, I gave him my best FATHER KNOWS BEST speech- that his present state doesn't also mean what his future state will be; that if and when he meets someone special he'll be able to communicate with her his lack of experience and vice versa; But also I gave him the lust has nothing to do with love part. I told him everyone goes through this with their first sexual encounter, nervousness, clumsiness, did you do it right. Well, he asked me what it was like when I was his age and when did I lose my virginity? He assumed his younger brother got his charisma from me. I told him how I felt just like him at 17 except I was a very gifted, built like a decathlete, intelligent jock, but I couldn't socialize with the opposite sex, had never kissed a girl, a couple of immature cheerleaders even stuffed notes into my locker asking if I was a homosexual. But, everything changed that summer before my senior year of high school.

I had a job working on the dock of a large freightline and I frequently had to take paperwork into the office ladies and I usually got catcalls and 'come over here baby' lines. I would smile and go on about my work, but, there was one lady who approached me when I was on break one day by myself and she handed me a piece of paper with her name and phone # on it and said, "If she ever found out I past it on to someone else she'd hunt me down and kill me with her barehands." Now this was a single, 27 year old divorcee, the best looking lady in the office who always wore the tightest skirts, but never whistled and always smiled at me. It took all my courage to call her a week later and she gave me directions to her apartment. She invited me in and we sat and talked, well, she talked, I felt like I was sweating a rain shower and was close to wetting my pants. She said she knew what my problem was and wanted to help, if I wanted her help and could play by her rules. I agreed and for a little more than a year this woman taught me everything she knew about carnal knowledge and how to pleasure her and myself. It changed my inner world and I never let on to my buddies and had a couple of girlfriends my senior year, but never had sex with them, didn't even try.

I really don't want to TRICK my son with my PRO, I would rather ask his permission to 'arrange something' if he feels this would help his feelings of inadequacy. You see, he has known for a year that I have been hobbying for over 4 years because I gave up on commitment based relationships, but I have needs. He knows but not his younger brother.

Dr. Phil-ip4053 reads

to backfire on me. I have two sons, the oldest is a 20 year old shy, introverted, college student, who's still a virgin. God has blessed me with two sons that are both extremely nice looking, intelligent young men that are like night and day socially. I feel my 18 year old probably got laid when he was six years old. I truly love the fact they are so different but so alike in many other ways.

Well, my oldest son is starting to bloom, being on his own at college, away from the immature, cruelty of high school peers seems to be helping, but I worry. I want to jumpstart his self-esteem and self-confidence !!

I want to get him laid by a PRO !! And not just any pro but my 26 year old, All Time Favorite, that is a 10 across the board, and I have seen almost weekly for the last 3 years. She and I are very close friends, and she even offered to do this as a courtesy to me (I have helped her out in many different ways over the past 3 years), but I told her it has to be business. Well, she and I came up with a plan. My two sons and I frequently hang out together on weekends when my oldest is in town. We love to listen to good, live music, whereever, or eat out at different eateries, with me throwing back a couple of cold daddies, flirting and being flirted with by very attractive women. I am only 42 but pass for 30-35. Now my PRO would just so happen to be hanging out somewhere where we show up to kill some time. Everybody in a crowd notices this beautiful model, she is just a gorgeous looker. Well, after she made sure my son notices her, she would come over and introduce herself to us, giving my oldest sutle, extra attention. I would tell my son to invite his new friend to join us and then we would just hang out being COOL. I would leave her and my oldest alone for her to arrange to get to know him better at whatever pace she felt he was comfortable with responding. She would be very candid at the appropriate times about a simple, no strings, physical relationship, that would end when she said it should.

I am not trying to groom my son to be a ladies man or some sorta cocksman. I simply love him and would throw myself in front of a speeding train to protect him. He went to a very large, incredibly clic-ish high school where studious, shy kids are picked on by their peers. I divorced his mother over 10 years ago and this probably didn't help matters. Children from a divorce always feel different from the time mom and dad go separate ways and maybe this compounded his low self-esteem. I have always told him he would be a late bloomer and would blossom at college age, and he is. I know nature will take it's course and he will adjust just fine. As a very loving parent I simply want to ease his inner pain and let a PRO teach him how to pleasure a woman, completely and expertly.

Give me your thoughts, please.

I say do it.  My dad never told my anything about the birds and the bees.  I'm not sure how it would backfire though.

2strk

I can tell you exactly how it could backfire; your son could very well interpret this as; "I'm such a loser, my own dad had to pay someone to take my virginity". Not only that, but his first experience would be based on a giant lie. And he *will* find out, guaranteed.

I cannot advise you strongly enough to *not* do this. Nothing much good ever comes out of tricking someone, especially in a matter as personal as this.

I believe you are very sincere, and are doing this out of love for your son...but it still doesn't make this right. This is exactly the kind of thing that could knock hell out of his self-esteem, which is the opposite of what you're trying to accomplish.

Let him lead his own life on his own timetable, and privately. He sounds like a good-looking and cool guy...and just like every other shy guy, he'll figure it out all on his own...and *won't* resent you for years.

-- Modified on 11/5/2005 12:51:49 AM

Herr Professor2339 reads

Advice to Dad: Leave the kid alone and enjoy him for who he is.

Very good advice Red, but also there are those men who only go to bed with one woman during there life.  I have a 30 year old son who fits that category.  We all know that we have a special feeling for our first patrtner and think we are in love.  What a rude awaking it would be to find out Dad was banging the person we had these feeling for.  Let your son develope on his own, it will workout for the best.


You ever notice that nothing makes somebody more uncomfortable than a blood relative's sex?  It's worse when it crosses generations, and marriage is one way of controlling this response.  

One way or another, he will likely resent the interference, that his father has taken control of his sex life out of his hands.  You mean well, but this dominance in his sexuality will not be appreciated.  

Add to that, if he finds out you had sex with her too, and he's bound to, he's going to be feeling quesy and probably much worse.

That you're so oblivious to this makes me suspect that this post isn't even real.

Lemme do her dad.  I promise that I won't resent you for it.  She's hot, right?

...and incapable of getting a girl on his own.  Then he can head straight to therapy hating your guts instead of waisting time thinking he's a stud before the inevitable discovery of what really happened.  This idea is a time bomb that will hurt everyone when it blows up.

We discussed this at length when you last posted this - and you ignored the advice given back then.  

What answer are you really looking for?

 -- Deep 'not feeling the love' Heat

longstraight3220 reads

Your story reminds me of a couple of friends of mine, who had a child who they were convinced -- absolutely convinced -- was a virgin well after graduation from college.  I doubted it.

For a number of reasons related to a messy divorce, when he moved home for the summer prior to going to grad school assorted boxes of papers were shipped to my house for storage, where they sat for a couple of years.  When I was doing some remodeling, I needed to clear out space, and I asked them (he and his family) to come and get their stuff.  I was more than a bit irritated when they told me to go through everything and throw out that which I deemed to be irrelevant, and pack some smaller boxes of the "valuable stuff." (Yeah, I know I was being used.)

At any rate, while going through the boxes I came across one entire banker's box filled with correspondence written by the virginal son to his HS girlfriends.  Let's just say that he had really snowed his parents.

My points:

1. Your son may not be quite the sexual loser that you think, and he may be perpetuating this image with you for his benefit.

2. If he is as smart as you claim that he is, he will almost certainly figure out that this is a set up.  This is especially true if your assumption regarding his virginal status is correct.  After a couple of years at college he has learned which women are likely to be attracted to him as opposed to those who will "blow him off," and this setup will cross the line of credibility.

On the surface it sounds cool, but that is so far from reality. If he is still a virgin, then let it happen naturally. A pro would only give him an unrealistic view of the sex and women. Almost none of his contemporaries can match her and "forcing" him into this situation by deceit is worse yet. On the flip side, he may not know yet what he wants sexually; he could be comptemplating a same sex life. What would your little surprise mean then? Back off. Every kid deserves to stumble about until the magic happens for him (or her).

huge, monstrous, pathetic, dysfunctional mistake.

Sanduskie2245 reads

but your son is probably not a virgin. Most likely he is gay and just senses that you would not be supportive if he came out. Considering your pretty atrocious suggestion, he is probably right.

-- Modified on 11/5/2005 10:52:24 PM

Buddy Rydell2765 reads

to find that speeding train you spoke of. Save him from your vision of what he should be. If he should become a 40 year old virgin, then revisit the subject.

MissAnonymous1993 reads

When I was in college, I knew a ton of shy, 19 and 20 year old college virgins (male and female)..because I was one of them.

I can guarantee you, with time, he will feel more comfortable about dating, get a girlfriend, and finally get laid.

All the shy types of my acquaintance eventually dated and had boyfriends/girlfriends by college graduation.

So give the boy some time. Let him meet a nice girl of HIS choosing, not a mature sophisticated lady of his father's choosing--someone whose obvious sexual expertise will probably make him feel inept.

Make some of the best lovers. I got a relatively late start by today's standards. When I found the joys of fornication, I have never turned back. Older is sometimes wiser with choices too. I can proudly say I don't have a trail of botched relationships and mad women or babies that I can't be a father to like some I know.

jack-in-the-crack2055 reads

might be like a bull in a china shop, or otherwise going where you ain't been invited?

...but "extremely nice looking, intelligent" does generally not go with "20 year old...virgin".

So, I'm assuming that if you took off you're parental goggles for a moment you'd probably see that the older one, is sadly a dweeb, headed no doubt into a sexless midlife...

Get him laid -- get that horrible burden off his chest... but be careful. One wrong move at this sensitive time could turn into a homo...

this is every grown man's fantasy, and every horny son's.  I was a "late bloomer."  God bless the horny young ladies when I was a college frosh who gave me "hand jobs" and, later, taught me about *gasp* intercourse.  But it was a long way from then. years, to where I felt I'd become a modestly competent and confident lover.  Had my father interfered I probably would have refused to talk with him again.

frank891342736 reads

Your basic idea and motivation are excellent and your son is very, very lucky to have a dad who is not a prude or someone who buys into society’s idiotic prejudice against providers.  On the other hand, as so many others have said, deception is usually a very bad idea, and there is always a high risk that it can backfire.

Why not approach this issue in a thoroughly honest way?  Why not tell your son about the great experiences you have had with your ATF and invite him, if (and only if) he wishes, to spend some time with her at your expense.  You could point out the following:  

First, that there is a tremendous advantage in having one’s early sexual experiences with providers for 3 reasons: (a) they know their stuff, (b) there is no need for fear, worry, performance anxiety or embarrassment with a provider, and (c) a good provider is the best teacher to show a man how to be an expert lover.  

Second, an experience with a top-flight provider almost always beats an experience with a pick-up or girlfriend; it’s like the difference between eating an ordinary home-cooked meal versus eating in an elegant 5-star restaurant with a renowned cordon bleu chef.

You could also emphasize that while you recommend your ATF, you understand that your son may have different tastes and you would be equally delighted to have him pick out a provider on his own, and that he can keep trying different providers, either for variety or until he finds one that might be his ATF.

Others have said that your son might be gay.  Statistically, this is unlikely; gays are only 2% or so of the male population and even with the traits your son exhibits the likelihood of his being gay is still probably well under 10%.  To cover all bases, though—and to show you have no prejudice against gays, in the unlikely but still possible case of his actually being gay—you might mention as an aside that for guys who might enjoy being with a guy there are male providers and, if this is something he would like to sample, you stand 100% behind him.

Be honest with your son, find out what he wants, and then help him however you can to get what he wants, which may or may not be the same as what you would want if you were in his shoes.  If he's excessively shy, or on the prudish side by nature, obviously you don't want to press the issue, but you can leave things open as an option if he should reconsider.  Whatever he wants to do, or not do, he’s a son you love—and that’s the key.  Emphasizing that you love him, and want him happy, is the most important message you can send.

Dr. Phil-ip2608 reads

...It's only about 10% of me that wants to interfere with his situation. But, you have to understand, I am the one who raised him and we have always had an open and communicative relationship. I raised him to be independent,  do his very best to resolve issues how he feels best, and if he makes mistakes, well, learn from it and right the ship. But, most importantly, I would always be there if he needs a helping hand, or heart, or second opinion.

He's the one who came to me this past summer and he told me about his 'internal dilemna'. He feels he knows what his career choice will be, but, what he really wants in life is to be 'a family man and he doesn't know how he could ever achieve this in his present state and if he meets someone really special, and she's been around the block enough to know a good lover from a bad one, well, she might dump him because he was a clumsy, inept lover'.

Well, I gave him my best FATHER KNOWS BEST speech- that his present state doesn't also mean what his future state will be; that if and when he meets someone special he'll be able to communicate with her his lack of experience and vice versa; But also I gave him the lust has nothing to do with love part. I told him everyone goes through this with their first sexual encounter, nervousness, clumsiness, did you do it right. Well, he asked me what it was like when I was his age and when did I lose my virginity? He assumed his younger brother got his charisma from me. I told him how I felt just like him at 17 except I was a very gifted, built like a decathlete, intelligent jock, but I couldn't socialize with the opposite sex, had never kissed a girl, a couple of immature cheerleaders even stuffed notes into my locker asking if I was a homosexual. But, everything changed that summer before my senior year of high school.

I had a job working on the dock of a large freightline and I frequently had to take paperwork into the office ladies and I usually got catcalls and 'come over here baby' lines. I would smile and go on about my work, but, there was one lady who approached me when I was on break one day by myself and she handed me a piece of paper with her name and phone # on it and said, "If she ever found out I past it on to someone else she'd hunt me down and kill me with her barehands." Now this was a single, 27 year old divorcee, the best looking lady in the office who always wore the tightest skirts, but never whistled and always smiled at me. It took all my courage to call her a week later and she gave me directions to her apartment. She invited me in and we sat and talked, well, she talked, I felt like I was sweating a rain shower and was close to wetting my pants. She said she knew what my problem was and wanted to help, if I wanted her help and could play by her rules. I agreed and for a little more than a year this woman taught me everything she knew about carnal knowledge and how to pleasure her and myself. It changed my inner world and I never let on to my buddies and had a couple of girlfriends my senior year, but never had sex with them, didn't even try.

I really don't want to TRICK my son with my PRO, I would rather ask his permission to 'arrange something' if he feels this would help his feelings of inadequacy. You see, he has known for a year that I have been hobbying for over 4 years because I gave up on commitment based relationships, but I have needs. He knows but not his younger brother.

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