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No I admitted that I put the $$$ first
sljackson 13 Reviews 312 reads
posted

I appreciate your reply but a lot is out of context. I contacted her in advance and needed to change plans. Now you say this would have aggravated you, but I'm saying I'm giving her ample notice in advance. She was honest and said she was not prepared for incall but how about longer date  (meaning more $$$ to cover the expense and a little bit of an upsell) not only did I offer more $$$ but I offered to help with hotel (that she didn't mention she needed help with). I see myself here as a gentleman and understanding the situation enough that I take away any inconvenience and add a win win situation for her not so much for me in terms of the $$$ I wanted to spend. Now at that point I was more than a week away so if she really had other potentials then she could have cancelled with me and took those dates but she didn't. No way was this about $$$.

I did admit I wooed her on other occasions. She took that to mean she can treat me as a given and I'd keep coming back. When I didn't, she had a problem with it. Anything else?
Posted By: VOO-doo
First, she may not like that hotel for a variety of reasons, including location, atmosphere, flexibility of check in/out times, scrutiny of hotel staff, tendency of hotel to work with LE, and many other reasons. But even if she could get a nice hotel for $50 - that's still a chunk of her rate, and she didn't agree to it upfront.  
   
 Also, a lot of girls like to book with the hotel directly - when using tools like priceline, hotwire, etc., you sometimes get what you pay for - substandard rooms, no preference as to early check-in, less likelihood that requests are accommodated. Also, she may belong to a rewards program and/or just prefer a different hotel for other reasons of her own (some hotels are much more/less provider-friendly than others).  
   
 I don't have separate incall and outcall rates. If a date isn't worth it to me, I just won't do it - or, will suggest the gent book a longer time, as your provider did. It's not an upsell. If the guy doesn't want to book longer, then he doesn't have to - in that case, things wouldn't work out and he's free to choose someone else.  
   
 In most cases, I'll just refuse outright if a guy wants 1-hour incall... even if I COULD get a hotel for $50 (not likely for me). For 90 minutes I'll at least look at hotel rates, but I'll refuse the date if my profit margin isn't high enough.  
   
 If the guy wants to book a room to see me, that's his prerogative... but it's unlikely that I'd offer to give any discount. And if he asked me to take one, I'd refuse and tell him to find a provider who offers incall for the time/price he's seeking.  
   
 It's HER business to run.  
   
 You pretty much admitted you let your emotions get in the way. This doesn't seem to be entirely (or even mostly) about her professional practices - she made you feel hurt and angry. While her handling of your feelings and demands may have been immature and unprofessional, I think she'd be more than justified to try to put some distance between you. You do admit that you probably had a hand in her emotional reaction.  
   
 Also... you WERE advised by a fellow hobbyist to give her a deadline (harborview: "ask her quickly to confirm and give her a resonable time limit over 24 hours.  I'd be explcit that "if I don't hear back from you by midnight tomorrow 9/26, I'll assume you can't make it & consider it to be cancelled."  ;). It doesn't sound like you did that. Because it wasn't truly about deadlines. I think you likely knew she'd get back to you eventually, but her attitude made you angry. So you tried to FORCE her to give you more attention (maybe she even sensed that? Which could partially explain her delayed replies), and then basically punished her by cancelling, and telling her you found someone else.  
   
 I'm not saying that she behaved with the utmost professionalism, but she really didn't do anything egregious enough to warrant a sudden cancellation.  
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
 

Okay so I'm not sure how many of you read my post about an old ATF of mine that I booked a date with earlier this month. The story was that I needed to change from outcall to incall. I messaged her a week and a half before the scheduled date to let her know, but never heard back from her. I sent another message with a polite "hope everything is okay", still no response.  

Got some advice from my TER newbie board peeps saying give her 1 more email  (since she and i have always had email contact) saying politely that I hadn't heard from her and to please let me know because I'd like to hobby on the date we planned on because my hobby schedule is tight. I heard from her a day later saying she hadn't planned on incall and asked for longer time (upsell). I thought I was doing the gentleman like thing and told her my hobby funds are tight, but I'd help out with hotel and if she could offer me longer time for less donation (2 hours for 1.5 hour rate) then I'd do it. AGAIN NO RESPONSE.  

Two days later she messaged back saying she'd go for the 1.5 hour rate and would let me know the price of hotel at a later (keeping in mind our date is Friday and I get this message late Wednesday). I politely messaged back saying not to worry about booking a room because I set up a date with someone else (which I did because she seemed too preoccupied) and maybe next time.  

She did not respond well to that. She blamed me saying she doesn't have time to keep messaging me and our date was confirmed weeks ago. And that she rejected other potentials because of our plans. And that I should have checked with her first, to never contact her again. I messaged back saying honestly I don't wanna have a falling out over this, but that she seemed preoccupied and I needed to secure something because I too was planning on this time. And I offered to cover part of the room and more time know my hobby funds were tight. Her reply was that she shouldn't be upset because I'm cancelling more than 72 hours in advance but never contact her again.  

How was it wrong and why does she blamed me here?

You should have notified her at once, because it sounds like you did OK her getting a room for that Friday.

Obviously, she is not the best at getting back to people, so she has some responsibility here.  You have offeured something at least against the room, so that seems fair.

If she can't meet you half way, then she is not that interested in keeping you as a client.

As we like to say:  Lots of fish in the sea

I mean in the interest of anticipation for a date with her the last thing I'd wanna do is feel like I'm being taken for granted. That's why I searched out for someone else figuring that whenever she would ever decide to get back to me I'd let her know I booked with someone else. I'm having a hard time seeing any point she'd make because I had already (in a nice way) told her I'd need her to get back to me because I needed time to research someone else. I was not rude about it. I didn't say "LOOK thiso is my 3rd and final message".

I just don't get it.

VOO-doo490 reads

1) If I'd initially agreed to do, say, a 1-hour outcall - and then someone changed it to incall - I'd be very annoyed. Hotels are expensive.  

To put it in numerical terms - say an average 1-hour date is $400. Right now, NYC hotels are $300+. Other areas, maybe $100-200. So IMO it's completely reasonable for a girl to limit her incall availability to longer dates - and it's not an upsell, it's just good business sense.  

Since you'd originally requested an outcall, that may not have been clear at the beginning - there was no reason for her to have brought it up at that point. Once you changed your terms, she changed hers. Again, not an upsell.  

2) After you changed the date from outcall to incall, you negotiated with her. If it had been me, I'd be annoyed enough at this point to wish I'd never agreed to see you (I'd probably still follow through).  

I mean, if this was me... I'd agreed to a certain date for a certain amount of profit. Then, you asked me to do the same date, minus hotel costs. When I try to assert what I consider reasonable terms, you agree to those terms, but as a caveat, ask me to do MORE time for LESS than my normal fee.

Meanwhile, I'm thinking of all of those other clients I turned down who did not ask for special offers... and I'm also realizing that I'm not likely to find another replacement. So, reluctantly, I take your offer.

See why she wasn't too happy?

3) While she wasn't very prompt with email, she did get back to you a day and a half BEFORE the proposed date... not quickly enough to assuage your anxiety, but more than reasonable. From what I read, she assumed that the date was on... I guess that's her gaffe, and she definitely wasn't professional in her correspondence. But you kinda jumped the gun in cancelling w/o giving her warning ('Hi, if I don't hear from you by Tuesday night, I'll assume that it won't work out for this time'). So that part was your gaffe.

4) Never, EVER tell a girl that you're cancelling on her to see someone else. While we all understand the realities of this business... it will just come across as a slap in the face, no matter how politely you put it. And since she (for the aforementioned reasons) thinks you're in the wrong - I hope you can see why she'd get a little pissy

She initially asked for the outcall not me. Hotels here in Oakbrook might run about $50 for a three star. She doesn't have different outcall rates as incall so if she's banking on keeping the entire $350 an hour then me OFFERING more $450 for 1.5 hour rate for 2 hours plus covering part of the hotel is think is more than fair. Especially considering that her only weak argument was that she turned down potentials (which is none of my business), but initially taking home $350 now to now be taking home $425 is more $$$ when I do the math.

I get that she's a woman and she's got feelings even though this is a business, but I put the business first SHE DIDN'T. I don't own her but I wouldn't wanna feel she owns me either. I felt totally taken for granted and like she felt she could get back to me whenever. Remember this happened not once but twice. And before I sent her my 3rd follow up I asked my fellow hobbyists for advice and did what I was advised.  

From what I gather,, she most likely didn't have other potentials. It's just my opinion but if she was about $$$ then she would secure her client a bit better than what she did.  

I will be honest I have wooed this woman. Told her she's beautiful. That she's my ATF. That I really enjoy our time together and in my hobby experience she is arguably one of the best. I probably have had a hand in some of her emotional reaction (even though I maintain it's immaturity). But if she felt that way, then why treat me like she takes that for granted.

...you in the palm of her hand and no matter what she did, her faithful puppy dog would always return.

Chicago is a big city.  There are a lot of fish in the sea (and in Lake Michigan - steelhead, coho salmon, perch, chinook salmon, rainbow trout, lake trout, brown trout, smallmouth bass, largemouth bass and walleye).  Get the hell out there and find another ATF.  Better yet, find 4 or 5 ATFs so the same thing won't happen again.  You may be pleasantly surprised to find that there are many others who you will consider "one of the best"...especially when you have more than three reviews under your belt.

Posted By: sljackson
She initially asked for the outcall not me. Hotels here in Oakbrook might run about $50 for a three star. She doesn't have different outcall rates as incall so if she's banking on keeping the entire $350 an hour then me OFFERING more $450 for 1.5 hour rate for 2 hours plus covering part of the hotel is think is more than fair. Especially considering that her only weak argument was that she turned down potentials (which is none of my business), but initially taking home $350 now to now be taking home $425 is more $$$ when I do the math.
As you know, I'm in the same general area so as soon as I read what you thought the average hotel price is, I had to go check! :-)

Right this second, the lowest nightly rate is $84 before tax.  Add on taxes and fees, that's about another $10.

Depending on what time of day you wanted to meet, she might have actually had to get the room for TWO NIGHTS.
I know, because often when I only have one client for the day and he wants a 2-hour date at 12pm, that's exactly what I have to do.  

So if that were the case, her out-of-pocket for the hotel alone is $190.   You pay her $450?  
Her profit is  $260 for a 2 hour date.

Now  if she only had to pay for one night's stay, that still changes your figures to $360 for a 2-hour date.  

You didn't say how much you were going to contribute to the hotel cost (not sure if you meant 50% or a flat $25) so obviously these figures aren't accurate. ;-)

 
I don't have anything else to contribute here, I just like talking hotel prices!  LOL.  :-)

I do my homework when it comes to $$$. Your link is not incorrect, but on Hotwire a 3 star hotel could be booked for $49 at the time I first contacted her. Given the fact that I gave her ample time and notice of the change, she missed an opportunity. Also I've out called with her before where I had to pay for the hotel in the same area and I paid that same $49 plus a $25 dollar refundable hold for incidentals.

If you're cozy in Oakbrook today, then why not cease the opportunity to see if you and I click Deborah?

Posted By: Debra_Hollander
Posted By: sljackson
She initially asked for the outcall not me. Hotels here in Oakbrook might run about $50 for a three star. She doesn't have different outcall rates as incall so if she's banking on keeping the entire $350 an hour then me OFFERING more $450 for 1.5 hour rate for 2 hours plus covering part of the hotel is think is more than fair. Especially considering that her only weak argument was that she turned down potentials (which is none of my business), but initially taking home $350 now to now be taking home $425 is more $$$ when I do the math.
   
 As you know, I'm in the same general area so as soon as I read what you thought the average hotel price is, I had to go check! :-)  
   
 Right this second, the lowest nightly rate is $84 before tax.  Add on taxes and fees, that's about another $10.  
   
 Depending on what time of day you wanted to meet, she might have actually had to get the room for TWO NIGHTS.  
 I know, because often when I only have one client for the day and he wants a 2-hour date at 12pm, that's exactly what I have to do.  
   
 So if that were the case, her out-of-pocket for the hotel alone is $190.   You pay her $450?    
 Her profit is  $260 for a 2 hour date.  
   
 Now  if she only had to pay for one night's stay, that still changes your figures to $360 for a 2-hour date.  
   
 You didn't say how much you were going to contribute to the hotel cost (not sure if you meant 50% or a flat $25) so obviously these figures aren't accurate. ;-)  
   
   
 I don't have anything else to contribute here, I just like talking hotel prices!  LOL.  :-)

From the sound of things, she did not value you as a client.  It also seems best that you and she part ways, as you and she apparently have different communication styles & expectations.  This may not always have been the case, but it certainly is now.  

As for your last line?  

A)  I'm not in Oak Brook, nor did I say I was.  When I wrote "the same general area" I was referring to Chicagoland.

B) LMAO!  You're too funny.    

C) It's Debra, not Deborah.  

 
PS ~  It's almost physically painful to resist correcting the errors that are very likely the result of your device's auto-correct!

 
...........Aaaaaaargh!  Can't do it!  It's "except" not "accept" and "seize" rather than "cease"!    Whew..... I feel better now.  ;-

GaGambler377 reads

Although I am sure he would have much preferred you "seized" it. lmao

Come on "Deborah" I am sure he'd be willing to send you his full name and everything. lol

Hope I spelled it correctly. Just because I can hold my own in an argument doesn't mean I'm not anecessarily excellent suitor Debra. You say YES to me not no. I can be anywhere in Chicagoland in an hours time usually.

VOO-doo383 reads

First, she may not like that hotel for a variety of reasons, including location, atmosphere, flexibility of check in/out times, scrutiny of hotel staff, tendency of hotel to work with LE, and many other reasons. But even if she could get a nice hotel for $50 - that's still a chunk of her rate, and she didn't agree to it upfront.  

Also, a lot of girls like to book with the hotel directly - when using tools like priceline, hotwire, etc., you sometimes get what you pay for - substandard rooms, no preference as to early check-in, less likelihood that requests are accommodated. Also, she may belong to a rewards program and/or just prefer a different hotel for other reasons of her own (some hotels are much more/less provider-friendly than others).

I don't have separate incall and outcall rates. If a date isn't worth it to me, I just won't do it - or, will suggest the gent book a longer time, as your provider did. It's not an upsell. If the guy doesn't want to book longer, then he doesn't have to - in that case, things wouldn't work out and he's free to choose someone else.

In most cases, I'll just refuse outright if a guy wants 1-hour incall... even if I COULD get a hotel for $50 (not likely for me). For 90 minutes I'll at least look at hotel rates, but I'll refuse the date if my profit margin isn't high enough.

If the guy wants to book a room to see me, that's his prerogative... but it's unlikely that I'd offer to give any discount. And if he asked me to take one, I'd refuse and tell him to find a provider who offers incall for the time/price he's seeking.

It's HER business to run.  

You pretty much admitted you let your emotions get in the way. This doesn't seem to be entirely (or even mostly) about her professional practices - she made you feel hurt and angry. While her handling of your feelings and demands may have been immature and unprofessional, I think she'd be more than justified to try to put some distance between you. You do admit that you probably had a hand in her emotional reaction.  

Also... you WERE advised by a fellow hobbyist to give her a deadline (harborview: "ask her quickly to confirm and give her a resonable time limit over 24 hours.  I'd be explcit that "if I don't hear back from you by midnight tomorrow 9/26, I'll assume you can't make it & consider it to be cancelled."  ;). It doesn't sound like you did that. Because it wasn't truly about deadlines. I think you likely knew she'd get back to you eventually, but her attitude made you angry. So you tried to FORCE her to give you more attention (maybe she even sensed that? Which could partially explain her delayed replies), and then basically punished her by cancelling, and telling her you found someone else.

I'm not saying that she behaved with the utmost professionalism, but she really didn't do anything egregious enough to warrant a sudden cancellation

I appreciate your reply but a lot is out of context. I contacted her in advance and needed to change plans. Now you say this would have aggravated you, but I'm saying I'm giving her ample notice in advance. She was honest and said she was not prepared for incall but how about longer date  (meaning more $$$ to cover the expense and a little bit of an upsell) not only did I offer more $$$ but I offered to help with hotel (that she didn't mention she needed help with). I see myself here as a gentleman and understanding the situation enough that I take away any inconvenience and add a win win situation for her not so much for me in terms of the $$$ I wanted to spend. Now at that point I was more than a week away so if she really had other potentials then she could have cancelled with me and took those dates but she didn't. No way was this about $$$.

I did admit I wooed her on other occasions. She took that to mean she can treat me as a given and I'd keep coming back. When I didn't, she had a problem with it. Anything else?

Posted By: VOO-doo
First, she may not like that hotel for a variety of reasons, including location, atmosphere, flexibility of check in/out times, scrutiny of hotel staff, tendency of hotel to work with LE, and many other reasons. But even if she could get a nice hotel for $50 - that's still a chunk of her rate, and she didn't agree to it upfront.  
   
 Also, a lot of girls like to book with the hotel directly - when using tools like priceline, hotwire, etc., you sometimes get what you pay for - substandard rooms, no preference as to early check-in, less likelihood that requests are accommodated. Also, she may belong to a rewards program and/or just prefer a different hotel for other reasons of her own (some hotels are much more/less provider-friendly than others).  
   
 I don't have separate incall and outcall rates. If a date isn't worth it to me, I just won't do it - or, will suggest the gent book a longer time, as your provider did. It's not an upsell. If the guy doesn't want to book longer, then he doesn't have to - in that case, things wouldn't work out and he's free to choose someone else.  
   
 In most cases, I'll just refuse outright if a guy wants 1-hour incall... even if I COULD get a hotel for $50 (not likely for me). For 90 minutes I'll at least look at hotel rates, but I'll refuse the date if my profit margin isn't high enough.  
   
 If the guy wants to book a room to see me, that's his prerogative... but it's unlikely that I'd offer to give any discount. And if he asked me to take one, I'd refuse and tell him to find a provider who offers incall for the time/price he's seeking.  
   
 It's HER business to run.  
   
 You pretty much admitted you let your emotions get in the way. This doesn't seem to be entirely (or even mostly) about her professional practices - she made you feel hurt and angry. While her handling of your feelings and demands may have been immature and unprofessional, I think she'd be more than justified to try to put some distance between you. You do admit that you probably had a hand in her emotional reaction.  
   
 Also... you WERE advised by a fellow hobbyist to give her a deadline (harborview: "ask her quickly to confirm and give her a resonable time limit over 24 hours.  I'd be explcit that "if I don't hear back from you by midnight tomorrow 9/26, I'll assume you can't make it & consider it to be cancelled."  ;). It doesn't sound like you did that. Because it wasn't truly about deadlines. I think you likely knew she'd get back to you eventually, but her attitude made you angry. So you tried to FORCE her to give you more attention (maybe she even sensed that? Which could partially explain her delayed replies), and then basically punished her by cancelling, and telling her you found someone else.  
   
 I'm not saying that she behaved with the utmost professionalism, but she really didn't do anything egregious enough to warrant a sudden cancellation.  
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
 

GaGambler395 reads

Not to jump on the hooker bandwagon about "haggling" but this is what happens when non JDU graduates try to negotiate with a hooker. Whether you started it or she did is of little matter at this point. You dickered back and forth over chump change and now the magic is gone. My advice is to put this behind you, forget about which of you were the most unreasonable, and simply move on to another woman, just like you "claimed" you did.

For the record, she did NOT upsell you, You "downsold" her by increasing her costs without increasing her revenue, This one is on you. Instead of being a big boy and understanding that "someone" had to pay for the room and that this was NOT part of your original agreement, this expense fell on you, or at least it should have.  

and why on earth did you tell her you had booked another woman, instead of using a generic excuse like "sorry, but I have made other plans" I believe you did this as a passive aggressive way of "getting back at her" well you wanted a reaction, you got one. Sorry, but you get ZERO sympathy votes from me. You wasted her time and your own, get over it. I am sure she has. Or I wonder if we will get another little rant. This time by her, carping about the timewaster she just had to deal with. lol

Umm I followed the advice I was given when I had not gotten a response to 2 emails. You're a respected member on TER I think, but you're dead wrong here. I guess it don't matter.

Posted By: GaGambler
Not to jump on the hooker bandwagon about "haggling" but this is what happens when non JDU graduates try to negotiate with a hooker. Whether you started it or she did is of little matter at this point. You dickered back and forth over chump change and now the magic is gone. My advice is to put this behind you, forget about which of you were the most unreasonable, and simply move on to another woman, just like you "claimed" you did.  
   
 For the record, she did NOT upsell you, You "downsold" her by increasing her costs without increasing her revenue, This one is on you. Instead of being a big boy and understanding that "someone" had to pay for the room and that this was NOT part of your original agreement, this expense fell on you, or at least it should have.  
   
 and why on earth did you tell her you had booked another woman, instead of using a generic excuse like "sorry, but I have made other plans" I believe you did this as a passive aggressive way of "getting back at her" well you wanted a reaction, you got one. Sorry, but you get ZERO sympathy votes from me. You wasted her time and your own, get over it. I am sure she has. Or I wonder if we will get another little rant. This time by her, carping about the timewaster she just had to deal with. lol

Also, a 3-star hotel in Oak Brook costs no less than $110...and that's not including tax.  

Listen to GaG, he speaks the truth. You were wrong, just move on.  

Posted By: sljackson
Umm I followed the advice I was given when I had not gotten a response to 2 emails. You're a respected member on TER I think, but you're dead wrong here. I guess it don't matter.  
   
Posted By: GaGambler
Not to jump on the hooker bandwagon about "haggling" but this is what happens when non JDU graduates try to negotiate with a hooker. Whether you started it or she did is of little matter at this point. You dickered back and forth over chump change and now the magic is gone. My advice is to put this behind you, forget about which of you were the most unreasonable, and simply move on to another woman, just like you "claimed" you did.  
     
  For the record, she did NOT upsell you, You "downsold" her by increasing her costs without increasing her revenue, This one is on you. Instead of being a big boy and understanding that "someone" had to pay for the room and that this was NOT part of your original agreement, this expense fell on you, or at least it should have.    
     
  and why on earth did you tell her you had booked another woman, instead of using a generic excuse like "sorry, but I have made other plans" I believe you did this as a passive aggressive way of "getting back at her" well you wanted a reaction, you got one. Sorry, but you get ZERO sympathy votes from me. You wasted her time and your own, get over it. I am sure she has. Or I wonder if we will get another little rant. This time by her, carping about the timewaster she just had to deal with. lol

The hotel her and I have visited many times is $49. I got no reason to be less than honest about that. If I was wrong it's because I took the advice of the folks on this forum. You guys don't get it both ways.

VOO-doo294 reads

You took the letter of the advice, but not the spirit.  

Plus, you missed a few of the most important details.  

The most important thing people said, was to tell her - clearly - that you needed to hear from her by XXX day/time (at least 24 hours away) or else you'd assume the arrangement was off. Did you do that? If so, then you were at least justified in cancelling (not for all of the other nonsense).

But, it seems like you weren't truly wondering if the date was still on - you just wanted an opportunity to get back at her for her (understandable) lack of enthusiasm

We're all waiting anxiously.  

Posted By: sljackson
The hotel her and I have visited many times is $49. I got no reason to be less than honest about that. If I was wrong it's because I took the advice of the folks on this forum. You guys don't get it both ways.

Out of my long post and descriptions the part you heard was the part of least significance to my point. I think people can be upfront and honest. If I let her know in advance that there's a possibility that her lack of diligence could result in my cancellation then I think I'm being transparent and honest. I describe in my post that even after doing so she still continued to ignore the diligence that I'd described in was looking for something therefore I let her know I moved on.

Now somehow this point got lost with a few of you and a tangent opened up suggesting that there was a negotiation that caused the pitfall of the interaction, so I replied to it honest and transparently as I did to her. It seems in this world of discretion that transparency intimidates some of you unless it's clear that the hobbyist is believed to be less than transparent. So imho I think this is why the argument opened suggesting the interaction went south because of the negotiations.  

Truth of the matter is her and I have come to this type of arrangement before. That she suggested outcall when the date was booked not me. That I gave ample notice the outcall would not work. That she (this is the point that's missed) chose to disregard multiple opportunities to acknowledge my follow ups. So I got advice on TER how best to handle that detail. And I received advice suggesting to give her an opportunity to reply within a reasonable time frame........AND SHE FAILED to do so. So I moved on letting her know I did.

But I maintain that if this had been the other way around and I as a hobbyist lacked the diligence of confirming details then those on this board would see this differently. I apologize to Debra because she's actually not always provider oriented and she proved that with her reply.

Sometimes I can get bad at checking my messages. Specially if I'm really busy IRL, going through real life drama shiz, or trying to take it easy/personal days. It's bad I know, but that could be why she didn't get back to you.  I highly doubt she turned down other potentials for you, she was just probably annoyed, who knows! If she was really that busy, she would've smoothed things out asap she so could figure out if she should see someone else, just as you had. But, I could be wrong..

Also, helping her out with a hotel isn't really help, lol it's kind of expected. She's seeing you for your pleasure, not hers. Otherwise you wouldn't be paying to meet up with her! She should probably have separate incall rates so not to confuse this, then separate travel rates. But, lets not be rude here when she tells you she has to get a hotel.  

Negotiating rates with a provider will always make them agitated, it's an insult. She's not making profit from the hotel room so why should this cut her rate? She'll still be exchanging the same amount of her energy/service per hour but with more hassle to book a room. A little perspective for ya!  

If you're planning on booking another provider instead, make sure to cancel! You don't have to flat out tell her you found someone else, but it's common courtesy for any appointment you make with someone (haircut, apartment viewing, meeting, dinner, drinks). See what I mean?

I think the group is just trying to work you up a bit. Obviously if she wasn't getting back to you that's a no no in terms of client relations. I've read the posters on here and your original post. I see nothing wrong with honesty. If her lack of communication was causing her to risk losing the appointment then there's nothing wrong with saying that if it's the truth. In the business world lack of diligence can cost you money. Not understanding the needs of your client and how he appeals to the service you offer it just........ I'm having a hard time understanding how all you guys are getting her back on that.

I guarantee if it was him ncns or lack of communication for a follow up she was making you'd all change your tone. This board tends to take a blind eye when the provider does something bogus but you guys reign down on the hobbyist when something is questionable. This is the Newbie board and he should feel comfortable coming to you guys for advice, but you guys gotta be objective especially when he took the time to lay out the series of events like he did.

I think moving on is the only valid advice they gave you and I'd take that advice only. Everything else was hypocritical and inconvenient like shopping for groceries at Aldi without a quarter. I don't see none of you guys putting yourself out there like he did.

Posted By: sljackson
Okay so I'm not sure how many of you read my post about an old ATF of mine that I booked a date with earlier this month. The story was that I needed to change from outcall to incall. I messaged her a week and a half before the scheduled date to let her know, but never heard back from her. I sent another message with a polite "hope everything is okay", still no response.  
   
 Got some advice from my TER newbie board peeps saying give her 1 more email  (since she and i have always had email contact) saying politely that I hadn't heard from her and to please let me know because I'd like to hobby on the date we planned on because my hobby schedule is tight. I heard from her a day later saying she hadn't planned on incall and asked for longer time (upsell). I thought I was doing the gentleman like thing and told her my hobby funds are tight, but I'd help out with hotel and if she could offer me longer time for less donation (2 hours for 1.5 hour rate) then I'd do it. AGAIN NO RESPONSE.  
   
 Two days later she messaged back saying she'd go for the 1.5 hour rate and would let me know the price of hotel at a later (keeping in mind our date is Friday and I get this message late Wednesday). I politely messaged back saying not to worry about booking a room because I set up a date with someone else (which I did because she seemed too preoccupied) and maybe next time.  
   
 She did not respond well to that. She blamed me saying she doesn't have time to keep messaging me and our date was confirmed weeks ago. And that she rejected other potentials because of our plans. And that I should have checked with her first, to never contact her again. I messaged back saying honestly I don't wanna have a falling out over this, but that she seemed preoccupied and I needed to secure something because I too was planning on this time. And I offered to cover part of the room and more time know my hobby funds were tight. Her reply was that she shouldn't be upset because I'm cancelling more than 72 hours in advance but never contact her again.  
   
 How was it wrong and why does she blamed me here?
-- Modified on 9/30/2016 5:34:01 PM

I'm sorry.  My suggestion was only to address her lack of response in a timely manner which is why I suggested putting the date & time in the subject line.  I didn't address the change in venue, thinking (mistakenly) that the change in location was a direct swap.  This wasn't the case.  And further you asked for a discount!?  You are worried about the schedule & you start talking discounts which can easily cause an event to blow up?   If I wanted a date to take place, I'd never do that.  

You said you'd "help" with the room cost... you didn't say you'd cover it completely.  

IF you had plenty of time and wanted to make an offer earlier in the process when you had time & were willing to risk her turning you down & walking away...  as many gals will for negociating...   Then perhaps offering to FULLY cover the room cost for a time consideration OR pay full rate but she covers the cost.  

Negociating is always risky...

What everyone is failing to realize though is that her and I have seen each other many times. And there's no way you guys can understand the dynamic of that without asking questions about the details you don't understand. But since it's out in the open it will add here. I've covered the room on other occasions with this woman just because I wanted to see her and me covering the room made that possible. When she suggested  (after 3 emails) that we contunue the plans with something that benefited her (longer time = more $$$), the I suggested something that was equally beneficial to me (more time for a special rate) because she suggested that we could have more time to enjoy the date and each other. There was no haggling involved, but many of you ASSUME there was and that's the reason first this going south.  

I think I called her out on her lack of diligence. I see no difference in results when I put a date a time in the subject line which she seemed to not take seriously. Lesson I would add is if I could offer is if I to some degree accept that she's got a lack of diligence then I can't ask for her to be diligent later........ But this is the reason I asked you guys for advice which I hope (some of you) will be more responsible with with other members on the "Newbie board".

Posted By: harborview
I'm sorry.  My suggestion was only to address her lack of response in a timely manner which is why I suggested putting the date & time in the subject line.  I didn't address the change in venue, thinking (mistakenly) that the change in location was a direct swap.  This wasn't the case.  And further you asked for a discount!?  You are worried about the schedule & you start talking discounts which can easily cause an event to blow up?   If I wanted a date to take place, I'd never do that.  
   
 You said you'd "help" with the room cost... you didn't say you'd cover it completely.    
   
 IF you had plenty of time and wanted to make an offer earlier in the process when you had time & were willing to risk her turning you down & walking away...  as many gals will for negociating...   Then perhaps offering to FULLY cover the room cost for a time consideration OR pay full rate but she covers the cost.    
   
 Negociating is always risky...    

NoYellowEnvelope328 reads

... from harborview, Voo-doo et. al.  But it's clear you really didn't want an answer to your question, what was wrong with what I did, because you don't think you did anything wrong.  

The bottom line is you cancelled a long-standing date with a provider without fair notice that it was in danger of being cancelled due to your time pressure.  And not just any provider--your ATF.  I wouldn't do what you did with any provider, but I would have avoided at all costs doing something like that to my ATF.  

The negotiating over rate also wasn't a good idea IMO, as it complicates things (and again, this is your ATF here), but the main problem was cancelling without a warning that it would happen unless you heard back from her within a certain timeframe.  

And rubbing your ATF's face in it by telling her you booked someone else was also not cool IMO.  If this thread is an example of how you treat your favorite providers, I don't want to think about how you treat others.  

You should think about the advice you got here, take it to heart, and think about how you can avoid this kind of situation in the future.

I find it a tad bit over hypocritical when I did what I was advised to do and the "board" still does not think it was the right advice when the concensus told me to do it. This ain't me not wanting to take advice or me just plain being mean. This was her disregarding and taking me for granted so I came on the board and asked for advice.  

Now you guys seem to think me saying that I looked at her asking for an increase and me asking for an increase as haggling. I'm maintaining it was the same thing. And it is how I'd wanna be treated solid for solid, favor for favor. Because I offered her more than was convenient for me because she was an ATF and that's the truth. But don't just assume you got me in your back pocket and treat me like since you feel you'very got you worked your way through the ranks from hourly to salary that you cannot be fired.

I know I'm gonna take flack for saying (and I expect to) but the anticipation leading up to a date is part of the excitement for me in seeing a provider. And she was messing that up by not responding. I know I don't expect people to agree with me, but it's like when a woman gets her hair and makeup done in "anticipation" of a datemail, then he cancels or shows up hours late failing to regard her with more than "you ready, let's go".  

I tried to offer her a heads up, but she chose to ignore that. A few of you do acknowledge that and I appreciate that, but you others missed the mark there and focused on something that she actually was cool with.  

Posted By: NoYellowEnvelope
... from harborview, Voo-doo et. al.  But it's clear you really didn't want an answer to your question, what was wrong with what I did, because you don't think you did anything wrong.  
   
 The bottom line is you cancelled a long-standing date with a provider without fair notice that it was in danger of being cancelled due to your time pressure.  And not just any provider--your ATF.  I wouldn't do what you did with any provider, but I would have avoided at all costs doing something like that to my ATF.    
   
 The negotiating over rate also wasn't a good idea IMO, as it complicates things (and again, this is your ATF here), but the main problem was cancelling without a warning that it would happen unless you heard back from her within a certain timeframe.  
   
 And rubbing your ATF's face in it by telling her you booked someone else was also not cool IMO.  If this thread is an example of how you treat your favorite providers, I don't want to think about how you treat others.    
   
 You should think about the advice you got here, take it to heart, and think about how you can avoid this kind of situation in the future.  

NoYellowEnvelope320 reads

You're pissed at your ATF for "messing up" your anticipation of the date. And you wanted others to tell you your actions were justified.  

I too love the anticipation of a date. But that's no reason to cancel a session with a provider (your ATF no less) without giving her fair notice and without even telling her you did it (until she sent an email to you, and then you told her).

We don't know the lady's side of this story.  We don't know what was going on in her life when you were expecting faster responses to your emails.  

But we know what YOU did.  And I think cancelling the date in the way you did it was no way to treat someone.

If I actually had moderator abilities, I would close this thread. This has gone on long enough and is going nowhere. We don't trainwrecks on the newbie board. I have watched this thread and the previous related thread for days and I never replied in the threads because there was enough reasonable answers from others. At this point, I feel this has gone on long enough and nothing is being accomplished. Let it rest. Other future readers to the thread can read all the existing posts and make their own judgements. Nothing more needs to be added.  

Mahalo.

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