Newbie - FAQ

Re: East Indian Newbie
FreedaNipple 13 Reviews 344 reads
posted

I haven't seen any ladies websites specifically say no Indians, however I have seen some posts on these boards were ladies have said they prefer not to see them, something about bad hygiene and their attitude towards women, treating them like second class citizens.
So YES, If I were you I would just tell them so there are no surprises or disappointments which would ruin the session

zestyguy965 reads

Hi,

I'm East Indian, and a newbie.. not the best combination, I suppose! I've been a basic (infrequent observer) member at TER for over 2 years, but never really took the plunge due to a myriad of reasons: Schedule, reluctance to give out personal information, fear of getting caught, shyness etc. to name a few.

Anyway, I observed few providers who explicitly stated (in their profile or on the board) that they are not open to seeing Indian clients. Do Indians have a bad reputation with providers? If yes, I'm curious as to why? Is it because of physical appearance/race, personality, hygiene, behavior or some other reason(s) I'm missing? Is it going to be difficult finding providers who would see me? I would like to start this hobby sooner or later, and want to be prepared for any eventuality!  

Thanks in advance

In the little less than 2 years I've been doing this I've seen around 25 different ladies.  Being Indian has never been an issue with any of them.  Every once in a while I'll get asked about my ethnicity during screening to which I'll truthfully answer Indian-American.  Never a problem.

I'll also note that I've never seen a "no Indians allowed" policy in any prospective provider's ad or website while doing my research.  Perhaps you're just looking in the wrong places?  Avoid BP and stick to well reviewed providers on TER.

-- Modified on 9/20/2016 1:12:29 AM

zestyguy323 reads

Thanks for your inputs, Bombastarz! :)

Posted By: bombastarz
In the little less than 2 years I've been doing this I've seen around 25 different ladies.  Being Indian has never been an issue with any of them.  Every once in a while I'll get asked about my ethnicity during screening to which I'll truthfully answer Indian-American.  Never a problem.  
   
 I'll also note that I've never seen a "no Indians allowed" policy in any prospective provider's ad or website while doing my research.  Perhaps you're just looking in the wrong places?  Avoid BP and stick to well reviewed providers on TER.

-- Modified on 9/20/2016 1:12:29 AM

I haven't seen any ladies websites specifically say no Indians, however I have seen some posts on these boards were ladies have said they prefer not to see them, something about bad hygiene and their attitude towards women, treating them like second class citizens.
So YES, If I were you I would just tell them so there are no surprises or disappointments which would ruin the session

zestyguy314 reads

I chanced upon a P411 profile of a lady who specifically called out Indian and middle eastern along with AA. Dont remember who!
I guess there are a few bad apples among us who fit the description you mentioned. Sadly, they are ruining chances for others like me. :(
Thanks for the advice though!

quote]

Posted By: Steven238
I haven't seen any ladies websites specifically say no Indians, however I have seen some posts on these boards were ladies have said they prefer not to see them, something about bad hygiene and their attitude towards women, treating them like second class citizens.  
 So YES, If I were you I would just tell them so there are no surprises or disappointments which would ruin the session.  
   
 

I would suggest letting a provider know during screening just to avoid any surprises for either of you. Also, being up front and honest tends to set a good tone. Just my opinion.

zestyguy340 reads

Thanks, Jesse! I think my ethnicity would be pretty apparent once I give my name for screening:) I wouldn't lie if I'm asked about it either. Hopefully, she would have a better opinion of Indians (if she had prior reservations) after seeing me!

Posted By: Jess_CountryGirl
I would suggest letting a provider know during screening just to avoid any surprises for either of you. Also, being up front and honest tends to set a good tone. Just my opinion.

GaGambler332 reads

Indians tend to be uncut, raising hygiene issues with some women and then there are some cultural issues, (perceived misogyny) and then I suppose there is just blatant racism on the part of some people/providers.

As long as you are clean and respectful, prerequisites for men of ALL races, you shouldn't have a problem, but yes I believe you will on occasion run into a woman who for one reason or another will not see you because of your race. Fortunately, unlike younger black men for example, I doubt you will run into this issue too often.  

Read these boards for long enough and you will end up smacking your own head about just how "out there" some people here are about perpetuating and even inventing new racial stereotypes about people who look different from themselves. You can't fix stupid, but good behavior is it's own reward.  

It really is a shame these questions even need to be asked, but you can't just put your head in the sand and pretend that the problem doesn't exist, even if the problem is not as bad as one might believe.

zestyguy281 reads

Right! There's the stereotype some of us need to get past! Not all of us fall into the category you describe.
Eg. I'm cut, but a majority are not..
Misogyny - depends on which part of India you are from. Folks who are from urban areas are more modern, social, respects women, and well groomed with good hygiene.. Others, maybe not as much. BUT.. it sure would be hard for the provider to know! At the end of the day, I would respect her decision on whether she agrees to see me or not.

Posted By: zestyguy
I'm East Indian, and a newbie. ... Anyway, I observed few providers who explicitly stated (in their profile or on the board) that they are not open to seeing Indian clients. Do Indians have a bad reputation with providers? If yes, I'm curious as to why? Is it because of physical appearance/race, personality, hygiene, behavior or some other reason(s) I'm missing?
I know many people who are ancestrally from the Indian sub-continent of Asia (but they are from all over the world: India, central Africa, south Africa, Singapore, England, and - would you believe it? - the USA). In appearance, they range from vanilla to espresso (see color chart below). Maybe some Providers do think "Indian" is at one end of the color spectrum or the other? Among the "Indians" I know, I could do a very rough color-coded sorting: the light skinned Indians tend to be X and the dark skinned Indians tend to be Y, and so on.

As I'm babbling on, I realize that I really don't have a clue why individual Providers might have an "Indian" restriction.  

The only valid reason I can think of is that many ethnic Providers do not see others of their own ethnicity on the chance that there be mutual acquaintances. E.g., some Korean Providers say, "No Koreans" because of the close-knit Korean communities in some regions. (A K-girl working in Manhattan (NYC) might live openly in K-town in Queens. Some K-guy in Queens might not want to play in his own backyard and scoot into Manhattan, instead. "No Koreans!" is to be on the safe side that your neighbor from K-town Queens doesn't show up at your workplace in Manhattan.)

I think you'll find plenty of great opportunities out there even after subtracting the few with restrictions. Good luck

zestyguy358 reads

True.. Indians come in different shapes and colors. I believe, whichever spectrum you fall into, charisma comes from within. If you are generally a nice person, you automatically emit a good aura.

Posted By: zestyguy
 
Anyway, I observed few providers who explicitly stated (in their profile or on the board) that they are not open to seeing Indian clients. Do Indians have a bad reputation with providers?  
 
Speaking only for myself, and the majority of providers with whom I've discussed such things over the years: YES.  
I really and truly hate to make generalizations or to stereotype in any way and I hesitated quite awhile prior to writing this.

But the truth is that most  Indian clients I've had have been a problem in one way or another and wound up on my DNS list after just one visit.  Nowadays, they usually land there before we even meet.  

Posted By: zestyguy

  If yes, I'm curious as to why? Is it because of physical appearance/race, personality, hygiene, behavior or some other reason(s) I'm missing?  
 
Sometimes it is poor hygiene.   When I think back on the men who've been not only the most odorous, but also the most reluctant to shower, brush their teeth, etc. when asked: Yup, except for one guy, they were all Indian.  
(That one guy was a regular of a former agency who earned the nickname Stinky and is a funny story for another time lol.)

Appearance?  Nah, not for me.  Well, wait a minute, I'll take that back!  There have been a few who had really gross, way-too-long TOENAILS which I found completely repulsive.  So that could go under either "hygiene" or "appearance", I suppose. :shrug:

Personality & Behavior?  This is the important factor for me, and again, YES.  
Now, I personally have never felt at all threatened or fearful for my physical safety with any Indian man whom I either met or with whom I corresponded without meeting.  
The most apt word that comes to mind is DIFFICULT.  

I've only met a handful in the past year or so, but with each one there was some noteworthy issue.  Most often it's not respecting my boundaries, making it clear he only wants the absolute most bang for his buck (treating the provider like an object rather than a human being), and just plain inconsiderate words & actions.   Not the worst offenses, to be sure, but not people I'd like to see again.  

And this is not counting the dozen or so who scheduled then cancelled with short notice, or once they were screened then began asking explicit questions, made crude negotiation attempts, or pulled a NCNS.  

THEN there's those who don't even make it past screening because they're either already blacklisted or they immediately rub me the wrong way.  It would take all day to list the many examples, but it typically boils down to inappropriate comments, an overall disrespectful vibe, or demanded something I don't offer.  

So I'll admit that when someone contacts me and either tells me he's Indian, or his name does it for him, my guard goes up just a little bit more than usual.  

BUT!  I don't refuse to see Indian men just because they're Indian.  Nope.  
As already mentioned, very few make it past my screening & scheduling to actually keep their date without incident. ;-)

I apologize if this is harsh, or if I sound at all cavalier about it, but what I'm sharing is completely true.  I honestly wish it weren't.  

Please bear in mind that my experiences & opinions are uniquely my own, and although some providers have shared similar stories with me, I certainly don't believe ALL providers have encountered the same nor that their reactions would mirror my mine.

The gist of what I'm trying to convey is that such a policy might be based more on experiences than "reputation"

 
Now, certain ladies DO refuse to see Indian men based solely upon stereotypes, generalizations, and profiling.  

Some believe that "all Indian men reek of curry" and won't see them for that reason alone.  (Seriously.)

Others, even having never met an Indian client, have ideas about their attitudes toward women or how they might behave in-session either from other providers , what they've observed in civvie social settings, or whatever the Long Island Medium told them.  I don't know, but yes, unfortunately these decisions are not always formed from personal experiences.  

 
Whew.....  oh, and lest you think that I'm saying I find Indian clients are worse than any other ethnic group?  Nope, definitely not.  ;-)

zestyguy287 reads

Thank you so much for your honest opinion, Debra! I've been waiting to respond all day!

First of all, I would like to apologize for the way you were treated by some of the Indian douchebags you had to deal with. Totally inappropriate!

I can totally understand the hygiene factor. I've observed few guys whose breath stinks from a mile away, or they have a strong "odor" (even for a fellow Indian) when they come near. LOL! Yeah, some of it has to do with Indian food/curries. I enjoy Indian food too (soo flavorful! :) ), but I'm a little more cautious to avoid odor as much as possible - chew gum right after, or generally avoid it for lunch on working days - unless it's like a team lunch.

Behavior aspect - not respecting boundaries and trying to get the best bang for the buck - it does indicate bad personalities and stinginess. They surely did not use available resources (TER!) to avoid these costly mistakes. If they don't respect this hobby and the providers, they have no right to be in this hobby. Again, not everyone are like that, but unfortunately, there are quite a lot of them out to ruin reputations and make it harder for the good guys out there.

This hobby is going to be interesting for sure. I'm hoping to meet some wonderful ladies along the way (starting with few newbie friendly providers who would ease me into this hobby), and also hoping to learn from the interactions.  

Thank you once again, and thanks to the other TER members who responded to my query. You've been most helpful, alleviated many of my reservations and made me feel welcome. :)

Posted By: Debra_Hollander
Posted By: zestyguy
 
 Anyway, I observed few providers who explicitly stated (in their profile or on the board) that they are not open to seeing Indian clients. Do Indians have a bad reputation with providers?  
 
   
 Speaking only for myself, and the majority of providers with whom I've discussed such things over the years: YES.    
 I really and truly hate to make generalizations or to stereotype in any way and I hesitated quite awhile prior to writing this.  
   
 But the truth is that most  Indian clients I've had have been a problem in one way or another and wound up on my DNS list after just one visit.  Nowadays, they usually land there before we even meet.    
   
Posted By: zestyguy
 
   If yes, I'm curious as to why? Is it because of physical appearance/race, personality, hygiene, behavior or some other reason(s) I'm missing?  
 
   
 Sometimes it is poor hygiene.   When I think back on the men who've been not only the most odorous, but also the most reluctant to shower, brush their teeth, etc. when asked: Yup, except for one guy, they were all Indian.    
 (That one guy was a regular of a former agency who earned the nickname Stinky and is a funny story for another time lol.)  
   
 Appearance?  Nah, not for me.  Well, wait a minute, I'll take that back!  There have been a few who had really gross, way-too-long TOENAILS which I found completely repulsive.  So that could go under either "hygiene" or "appearance", I suppose. :shrug:  
   
 Personality & Behavior?  This is the important factor for me, and again, YES.    
 Now, I personally have never felt at all threatened or fearful for my physical safety with any Indian man whom I either met or with whom I corresponded without meeting.    
 The most apt word that comes to mind is DIFFICULT.    
   
 I've only met a handful in the past year or so, but with each one there was some noteworthy issue.  Most often it's not respecting my boundaries, making it clear he only wants the absolute most bang for his buck (treating the provider like an object rather than a human being), and just plain inconsiderate words & actions.   Not the worst offenses, to be sure, but not people I'd like to see again.  
   
 And this is not counting the dozen or so who scheduled then cancelled with short notice, or once they were screened then began asking explicit questions, made crude negotiation attempts, or pulled a NCNS.    
   
 THEN there's those who don't even make it past screening because they're either already blacklisted or they immediately rub me the wrong way.  It would take all day to list the many examples, but it typically boils down to inappropriate comments, an overall disrespectful vibe, or demanded something I don't offer.    
   
 So I'll admit that when someone contacts me and either tells me he's Indian, or his name does it for him, my guard goes up just a little bit more than usual.    
   
 BUT!  I don't refuse to see Indian men just because they're Indian.  Nope.    
 As already mentioned, very few make it past my screening & scheduling to actually keep their date without incident. ;-)  
   
 I apologize if this is harsh, or if I sound at all cavalier about it, but what I'm sharing is completely true.  I honestly wish it weren't.    
   
 Please bear in mind that my experiences & opinions are uniquely my own, and although some providers have shared similar stories with me, I certainly don't believe ALL providers have encountered the same nor that their reactions would mirror my mine.  
   
 The gist of what I'm trying to convey is that such a policy might be based more on experiences than "reputation"  
   
   
 Now, certain ladies DO refuse to see Indian men based solely upon stereotypes, generalizations, and profiling.    
   
 Some believe that "all Indian men reek of curry" and won't see them for that reason alone.  (Seriously.)  
   
 Others, even having never met an Indian client, have ideas about their attitudes toward women or how they might behave in-session either from other providers , what they've observed in civvie social settings, or whatever the Long Island Medium told them.  I don't know, but yes, unfortunately these decisions are not always formed from personal experiences.  
   
   
 Whew.....  oh, and lest you think that I'm saying I find Indian clients are worse than any other ethnic group?  Nope, definitely not.  ;-)

Later on, after reading your reply, a couple things occurred to me which may have a bearing on the attitudes/behaviors I've frequently experienced.  

The ones who've fit my definition of a "problem client" were almost all middle-aged and older; and they all either still lived in India and were visiting here, or had relocated to the States as adults.  
I don't know what region of the country they were from, or whether it was urban versus rural.  

Another thought: some women might lump anyone whose name and appearance seems "Indian" to them into the same category when those she met and disliked might actually hail from a different country.  
One of India's neighbors, I can tell you that I've had nothing but truly negative experiences with clients from there, and it can be all too easy to mistake citizens or immigrants from one for the other. ;-)

 
Lastly, on a positive note: I am frequently questioned and sometimes hassled by clients who object to my screening requirements.  To my knowledge, this has never happened with any potential client who was Indian.    
In fact, I've had quite a few over the years who joined a screening service just to meet me.  So they're either complying with my methods, or they simply move along.    
An example all the "white, middle-aged businessmen" who give me a hard time about the same, really ought to follow.  :-)

 
PS ~  I love Indian food too!  I made Chicken Makhani just last night! :-

zestyguy319 reads

I must say I'm impressed! You are knowledgeable and insightful!

You're probably right, middle aged/older men could be set in their ways. But again, I've met Indian guys my age or little younger, educated professionals, with disrespectful attitudes towards women. Like, you know, the kind who thinks the place of a woman is at home looking after their husband needs and kids (among other things). I've wondered how they could be having such an attitude. It sure is disheartening to come across such people in this day and age.  
We cannot say for certain just because someone is from the city or from a particular region or in a particular profession, they're going to be "good". There are too many variables to consider - like upbringing, exposure, peer pressure, community etc. It's just sad that you had to deal with those scumbags (and form an opinion about Indians in general), when there are others who are way better.

P.S - Nice to know you like Indian food :)

Posted By: Debra_Hollander
Later on, after reading your reply, a couple things occurred to me which may have a bearing on the attitudes/behaviors I've frequently experienced.  
   
 The ones who've fit my definition of a "problem client" were almost all middle-aged and older; and they all either still lived in India and were visiting here, or had relocated to the States as adults.    
 I don't know what region of the country they were from, or whether it was urban versus rural.    
   
 Another thought: some women might lump anyone whose name and appearance seems "Indian" to them into the same category when those she met and disliked might actually hail from a different country.  
 One of India's neighbors, I can tell you that I've had nothing but truly negative experiences with clients from there, and it can be all too easy to mistake citizens or immigrants from one for the other. ;-)  
   
   
 Lastly, on a positive note: I am frequently questioned and sometimes hassled by clients who object to my screening requirements.  To my knowledge, this has never happened with any potential client who was Indian.    
 In fact, I've had quite a few over the years who joined a screening service just to meet me.  So they're either complying with my methods, or they simply move along.    
 An example all the "white, middle-aged businessmen" who give me a hard time about the same, really ought to follow.  :-)  
   
   
 PS ~  I love Indian food too!  I made Chicken Makhani just last night! :-)  
   
 

I am an Indian guy and so far haven't had problems in meeting providers. I state it during the initial contact and let things take its course. Be clean and courteous and you shouldn't have any problems!
Cheers!

zestyguy240 reads

Thanks Swamie! I am feeling more confident after reading through yours and few other responses. Maybe, there should be a "self-help" section for specific ethnic newbies to address some of these reservations! haha! :

I'm guessing it's just a coincidence but this same topic was being Tweeted just yesterday (but I only saw it today) so I thought you might find some of the candid opinions informative.  

That Twitter account, GotHookerProblems, is usually highly entertaining!

zestyguy236 reads

It's unbelievable! :) These guys should be seeing a shrink, not a provider! Haha!
But you are right.. there is more mention of pushing boundaries, entitlement and lack of respect. Despicable!

Posted By: Debra_Hollander
I'm guessing it's just a coincidence but this same topic was being Tweeted just yesterday (but I only saw it today) so I thought you might find some of the candid opinions informative.  
   
 That Twitter account, GotHookerProblems, is usually highly entertaining!

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