So this is all the Mayor's and Governor's fault? Rather than trying to rebut each of your Fox Talking Points pseudo-facts, let me simply suggest a few items (admitted even by the right wing of the GOP) for your contemplation:
1. Bush did not "plead" with anyone--he signed the declaration and went on with his vacation. Meanwhile FEMA was thinking about moving people and supplies into place--and it kept thinking about it for several days while all hell broke loose.
2. The very reason we have FEMA is because we recognize that local and state governments cannot possibly keep on hand all the resources necessary to respond to a crisis such as this. Unless you're suggesting that all 50 states stockpile enough emergency supplies and personnel to handle armageddon, there's a very good reason why we rely on a Federal response to these events.
3. Your "facts" presuppose that the Governor and Mayor must act before the Feds can. WRONG! As this administration's own written declaration from December 2004 makes clear, FEMA can and should act when they see a crisis arising, even if the state and local authorities are reacting slowly.
Please remember also that this is about the basics of governance, not politics. Who does and does not include these events in next year's campaign materials is irrelevant. What's relevant is understanding how an agency that is supposed to protect us even when there is no warning failed so miserably even with several days warning. Do you really feel secure that Osama's latest recruits are being kept in check by the DHS? As for your plea for "less government", fine. Please let us all know your name and address so that in case of a tornado, hurricane, earthquake or terrorist attack we can include your home on a list of places to which we should not send any emergency aid, for which we should provide no evacuation assistance, and for which we should provide no police, fire or military protection. And please consider sending the rest of us a check for all the roads, bridges and schools that our tax dollars and "big government" have built and that you regularly use.
Look, I'm sick and tired of all the bushwhacking going on with respect to Katrina. I want LESS government, particularly FEDERAL government, in my life! It was the the Mayor of N'Orleans and the Govner of Louisiana that fucked up and now they're trying to pass the buck. Read the link below and then there's this statement from someone who lived there:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Please read. This is from a KY Marine Corps friend...
I don't usually fwd this type of stuff but I can't take much more
criticism; please READ this-----M
On Friday night before the storm hit Max Mayfield of
the National Hurricane Center took the unprecedented
action of calling Nagin and Blanco personally to plead
with them to begin MANDATORY evacuation of NO and they
said they'd take it under consideration. This was
after the NOAA buoy 240 miles south had recorded 68'
waves before it was destroyed.
President Bush spent Friday afternoon and evening in
meetings with his advisors and administrators drafting
all of the paperwork required for a state to request
federal assistance (and not be in violation of the
Posse Comitatus Act or having to enact the Insurgency
Act).
Just before midnight Friday evening the President
called Governor Blanco and pleaded with her to sign
the request papers so the federal government and the
military could legally begin mobilization and call up.
He was told that they didn't think it necessary for
the federal government to be involved yet.
After the President's final call to the governor she
held meetings with her staff to discuss the political
ramifications of bringing federal forces. It was
decided that if they allowed federal assistance it
would make it look as if they had failed so it was
agreed upon that the feds would not be invited in.
Saturday before the storm hit the President again
called Blanco and Nagin requesting they please sign
the papers requesting federal assistance, that they
declare the state an emergency area, and begin
mandatory evacuation.
After a personal plea from the President Nagin agreed
to order an evacuation, but it would not be a full
mandatory evacuation, and the governor still refused
to sign the papers requesting and authorizing federal
action. In frustration the President declared the area
a national disaster area before the state of Louisiana
did so he could legally begin some advanced
preparations.
Rumor has it that the President's legal advisers were
looking into the ramifications of using the insurgency
act to bypass the Constitutional requirement that a
state request federal aid before the federal
government can move into state with troops - but that
had not been done since 1906 and the Constitutionality
of it was called into question to use before the
disaster.
Throw in that over half the federal aid of the past
decade to NO for levee construction, maintenance, and
repair was diverted to fund a marina and support the
gambling ships. Toss in the investigation that will
look into why the emergency preparedness plan
submitted to the federal government for funding and
published on the city's website was never implemented
and in fact may have been bogus for the purpose of
gaining additional federal funding as we now learn
that the organizations identified in the plan were
never contacted or coordinating into any planning -
though the document implies that they were.
The suffering people of NO need to be asking some hard
questions as do we all, but they better start with why
Blanco refused to even sign the multi-state mutual aid
pack activation documents until Wednesday which
further delayed the legal deployment of National Guard
from adjoining states. Or maybe ask why Nagin keeps
harping that the President should have commandeered
500 Greyhound busses to help him when according to his
own emergency plan and documents he claimed to have
over 500 busses at his disposal to use between the
local school busses and the city transportation busses
- but he never raised a finger to prepare them or
activate them.
This is a sad time for all of us to see that a major
city has all but been destroyed and thousands of
people have died with hundreds of thousands more
suffering, but it's certainly not a time for people to
be pointing fingers and trying to find a bigger dog to
blame for local corruption and incompetence. Pray to
God for the survivors that they can start their lives
anew as fast as possible and we learn from all the
mistakes to avoid them in the future.
So the local officials screwed up, I'd bet you the farm you are right. So how do you explain what the FEMA chief said?
While I don't understand your "We didn't they were in the SD?" reference, I agree that Mike Brownis way over his head in his positon as FEMA Director, but MOST top bureaucrats are, nothing new. The task is OVERWHELMING and the media is doing a yomans job of exploiting all the negatives! Good news doesn't sell! It's just the way it is. He probably should be removed, but let's face it, Dubya sticks by his peeps!! It's just his nature. Personally, I respect that characteristic, but there are times for exceptions. This is probably one of those times.
Cheers!
PS. Oh here's another little "goodie" to ponder:
If you consider that there have been an average of 160,000 troops in Iraq during the last 22 months, that gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000.
The rate in DC is 80.6 per 100,000. This means that you're more likely to be shot and killed in our nation's Capitol -- which has some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation -- than you are in Iraq.
Conclusion: We should immediately pull out of Washington.
Abso-FUCKING-lutely!!!
but hey let's blame it on Bush, in fact anything about your life that you are not happy about, it's his fault.
-- Modified on 9/8/2005 4:01:54 AM
-- Modified on 9/8/2005 6:47:06 AM
but then we all have the choice of moving. Our soldiers do not. It sure seemed like the federal response was a lot quicker when Fla. was hit. I guess Pres. was lookin out for his bro. Also we would have had more Reserves to send in if they weren't in Iraq. The young men and women of our armed forces deserve better than a low kill rate.
For the Mayor, specifically, NOLA's problem. The mayor himself is literally out of a job, if he's not homeless too. The City of New Orleans isn't going to be cutting any paychecks for quite a while. I doubt that either of them are going to be re-elected, and LA may otherwise remove them from office.
End of that argument. Now for the national debate: The federal government has *waged war* against the states. It could have done more. Because the States themselves are "welfare recipients" for the Fed, it should have done more than try to play this by the book.
If not, it shows why our system can't work. It looks like the Fed would have to f*ck up to save lives.
-- Modified on 9/8/2005 8:37:01 AM
I was in N.O. on Saturday before the storm and we had to leave early because of the MANDATORY evacuations. I live in Fla and know that the government can't make you leave your home if you do not want to leave. There are still people who refuse to leave their homes even with chest deep water in their livng room. Someone, local ,stae or fed govt should have provided a way out for those who could not leave. If they chose to stay then a name of next of kin should have been obtained and that person left to their own devises. Everyone from the the local govt to the fed govt screwed this up from jump. With Brown saying "you can't drive a truck in a hurricane and you can't fly a helicopter in a hurricane" 4 days after the storm hit is total garbage. The feds cut out $10M from the Army corps of Engineers budget for upgrading the levee system as "pork". Who do we blame for that? FEMA said several years ago that the current levee system in NO would not withstand more than a CAT 3 storm, yet nothing was done. Everyone screwed up.
Here's a thought: the french settled NO, let's blame them.
Then what's the deal with the governor's letter to Bush, asking for the disaster declaration? It seems to contradict what this letter says. I don't doubt that the state F'ed up...that's kinda what government does.
...making landfall in New Orleans? I realize this is hypothetical and absurd (though I think our intelligence agencies might overlook it till it was ready to land). Would Bush have had to wait for the governor's call to send in troops? Would you feel safer if he would?
Come on!
Defending the LA and Particularly NO politicians is a crime in itself. The city and state are and have been the most corrupt places in America for many decades. Instead of rebuilding they should bulldoze the whole place. Disperse the poor and spread the welfare burden in the short term and give the displaced a chance living in the rest of America that happens to be above sea level and in the hands of competent or at least semi-competent governments.
Bush is making the whole national government as corrupt as Louisiana.
Let Louisiana do the investigation of their politicians. That shouldn't even be part of the discussion now, unless its giving cover to Bush.
Let Louisiana do the investigations of their politicians? cmon Zin you can't be serious, Louisiana has been corrupt for generations, You might as well ask Bush to personally investigate Karl Rove.
Don't worry there will be plenty of blame to go around. Personally, I believe the bulk of the culpabilty lies at the state and local level, but there is no denying that FEMA also fucked up royally. Any doubt was removed when that genius opened his mouth and said that noone knew that a storm of this strength could breech the levees, sheesh what a moron!!
But they're the ones who put the people in. Besides, the State's economy has just been destroyed. People are going to be in a head hunting mood.
So this is all the Mayor's and Governor's fault? Rather than trying to rebut each of your Fox Talking Points pseudo-facts, let me simply suggest a few items (admitted even by the right wing of the GOP) for your contemplation:
1. Bush did not "plead" with anyone--he signed the declaration and went on with his vacation. Meanwhile FEMA was thinking about moving people and supplies into place--and it kept thinking about it for several days while all hell broke loose.
2. The very reason we have FEMA is because we recognize that local and state governments cannot possibly keep on hand all the resources necessary to respond to a crisis such as this. Unless you're suggesting that all 50 states stockpile enough emergency supplies and personnel to handle armageddon, there's a very good reason why we rely on a Federal response to these events.
3. Your "facts" presuppose that the Governor and Mayor must act before the Feds can. WRONG! As this administration's own written declaration from December 2004 makes clear, FEMA can and should act when they see a crisis arising, even if the state and local authorities are reacting slowly.
Please remember also that this is about the basics of governance, not politics. Who does and does not include these events in next year's campaign materials is irrelevant. What's relevant is understanding how an agency that is supposed to protect us even when there is no warning failed so miserably even with several days warning. Do you really feel secure that Osama's latest recruits are being kept in check by the DHS? As for your plea for "less government", fine. Please let us all know your name and address so that in case of a tornado, hurricane, earthquake or terrorist attack we can include your home on a list of places to which we should not send any emergency aid, for which we should provide no evacuation assistance, and for which we should provide no police, fire or military protection. And please consider sending the rest of us a check for all the roads, bridges and schools that our tax dollars and "big government" have built and that you regularly use.
When I buy gas, I pay a tax on every gallon. It goes to pay for the roads and bridges. The tax provides an excess, that is used for other things.
Every year, I pay property taxes. That goes to pay for fire and police protection, schools, and a host of other things.
I'm more than happy to pay for the things I use. I don't want to pay for the things that I don't use.
Less government" means two things."
1. Federal government should stop doing so much, and let the local governments do more. Education is a prime example. There is NO need for the federal government to be involved. Then, if I don't like the way things are in my local schools, I can either try to change things in my local government, or I can move.
2. Local governments should do less, and let the people maintain control. Again, education is a prime example. If the government didn't do it at all, then private education would be the only choice. Given the GREAT demand for low-cost education, somebody would fill that need, but don't expect your kid to get as good of an education there. Still, he's likely to get a better one than what's available in our government-run schools.
Again, I'm more than happy to pay for what I use. I just want others to do the same.
If States are to be held responsible for protecting their citizens against catastrophe, they should be allowed to keep most of the tax dollars that go to the federal government.