Thanks for posting the original question in that thread, 40W.  It was a great thread which I really enjoyed reading.  It's a fine example of what draws me back to this site over and over again.  So many moving stories, so many personal dilemmas.  It's like a microcosm of what makes us tick as human beings.

And a special thank you to Misshaijones, highlighting that it's not only men who have a foot in that particular camp.

Aphra

Planet Poly.

Why oh why is it that men always assume that there exist no women who can understand the need for outside physical contact?

Here's my scant .02 worth. If you know, going into a relationship, that you're not the kind of guy or girl who can be 'faithful', then why set yourself up for failure?

This isn't the dark ages - there are other models out there for relationships than the standard 'one man, one woman, til death or a good divorce lawyer do us part' kind.

Lots of us are out here living and working on other modes - poly, open, ethical slut, call it what you like. We're men *and* women alike who accept that, for us, sexual monogamy doesn't work.  With these options available, why would a single person choose not to explore them, if they can forsee that this might work for them?

Almost all major metropolitan areas have Poly groups, and there are a host of Poly discussion groups available on line.

Morgan

ps: of course, Poly has it's downsides, too. Here's a nice little movie detailing some of the issues... (added bonus: partial nudity!)

http://www.goodiebag.tv/video/pollywally_qt.htm

-- Modified on 6/18/2005 12:09:25 PM

which is why I've taken a sabbatical a couple of times.  I'm still struggling with the conflict.  Let me know if anyone finds the magic answer.

One other thing that I think of lately.  When I'm falling apart, drooling into a cup and can barely get out of bed in the morning, the person I'm going to rely on to help me (as I will help her) is the woman with whom I've developed a real, long-term emotional connection.  The hottie at the strip club or the equally vivacious provider is great company for a date and some you-know-whattin' but I'm not relying on a relationship built on commerce for my long term needs.  Which is why I realize I'd better work harder at the real relationship in my life, sex or no sex.  Just a thought.

I don't know whether 'allow' is the right word, but certainly, many many societies are tolerant of the need for men to visit prostitutes and keep mistresses when married.

America is not the whole world, though it often seems that way.

A wonderful and thought provoking thread...thanks for posting it.  Being new to our hobby, I may be looking at this through rose colored glasses.  Yet, just the same, it seems to me that if a married hobbyist finds himself in a marital relationship that provides all he needs but a complete lack of sexual intimacy, he can satisfy the need for the sexual initmacy through the hobby allowing the marital relationship to flourish without the pressures that might otherwise result from the absence of sexual intimacy. As long as the married hobbyist is able to discern the difference between sexual pleasure and emotional fulfillment, he should have little problem keeping the two separate.

> I would also like to know the name of Mr. Tokai's
> planet where women may be expected to allow sex
> outside the marriage.

I have talked with a few escorts, and one recurring theme is a sex drive that is more classically attributed to a man. So, I presume that if you were fortunate to marry a lady like that, a non-monogamous marriage is possible.

In reading the responses, I was reminded of another society where non-monogamy is routine. A year or two ago, there was an article on AIDS in Newsweek. The writer discussed how the epidemiology models needed to be revised for Africa. In the USA, there is predominately serial monogamy. In Africa, there is regular multiple sex partners for both the men and women. This results in a dramatic difference in the spread of AIDS in the two areas. In Africa, an entire group can be infected before anyone finds out.

I did not intend to discuss AIDS, but thought of it as an example of a more permissive society.

Personal note to 40-watt: If you haven't started yet, I suggest you hold out as long as you can. Once you start, it creates even stronger urges to cheat again, and breaks down the fear that kept you from doing it the first time. A much worse situtation to be in.

Suggestion: Go into marriage/sex counseling now. At least you can be honest that it is only urges, and that you have not cheated. Once you have cheated (and she doesn't know), then the "trust" in thereapy is destroyed, and makes it much more difficult to bring up/pursue.

"We can't hobby long-term in marriage because that would disfocus us from being emotionally engaged in our primary relationship, and present a more continuous --- therefore larger --- risk of her finding out."

I'm not sure I entirely agree!

I'm in my late 30's, practically been married since the age of 21. Yes I am a Leykis 101 flunkey!  

For all of those years I was as faithful as anyone possibly could. It wasn't until after my 2nd kid's birth that I realized my place in the priorities list has fallen behind item 136. I needed a release and the hobby gave it to me. It wasn't just the sex act and the climax.  It was the searching for the next girl, making the call, flirting, making arrangements.... the whole ritual! Like many others, I struggled with the guilt at first, but finally found the justification for the hobby in realizing that had actually become a better husband and father.

Then came the indulging!! In one week I had sex with 6 escorts, and I was still horny as hell.  It was as if the more I got, the more I needed it. I think it also did affect me in how I treated everyone around me including my family. When two different people call you a cocky mother fucker in the same day, you have to think there might be some truth to that!  Since then, I've been trying to keep my encounters very limited and only seek the hobby when it's considered vital.

I think this hobby, like food is a necessity (at least for me), but too much of it can lead to problems.  I too agree with Tom Leykis about marriage and having kids!  In our society today, we really don’t need to be married to be “complete”.  That’s a pretty obscene notion.  The culture in which I was raised, considers marriage a right of passage.  It’s how you become a  “man” I suppose.  It also allows men to have mistresses and enjoy the benefits of being the “boss” so long as they keep their responsibilities the first priority.   Deep down, I do subscribe to that belief system.  There are a lot of hobby related activities I’d love to experience, but stay away from.  I would love to be able to take a girl out for an all-nighter.  I'd Love to go with a hot looking brunette to a restaurant and have the envy of all men. I’d love to take a vacation with a chick other than my wife.  Hell, I can afford it, but won’t do it.  It’s not because I’m afraid of my wife. I know she won’t leave me.  The way I see it, she’s been a great friend and has supported me through thick and thin.  I could never risk fulfilling some of my wants by being seen in public with other women.  That would humiliate her!!  I’m not expecting a medal for this, but I think that’s a much better choice than leaving her and the kids in pursue of better sex. I suppose this “sacrifice” is made a lot easier by the fact that my wife is still a fine piece of ass, even after two kids.  

One thing I should add is that I don’t really know what it feels like to be a bachelor having all of the money I make to myself.  Before I started the hobby, I used to long for it.  Oddly, I don’t any more!  

I have struggled with the hobby while married.  I feel guilty about the money from my family.  As treatment I e-mailed several providers pretending to be a woman to ask about the business.  They don't have much respect for us hobbyists.  Most see us as losers.

The unmentioned issue inside marriage is disease.  There are stds that a condom doesn't stop (HPV).  A condom is only 97% effective against AIDs.  Think about the damage to your family with that.

Thanks for listening.