In some places, lots of condoms, and lube is the same as rolling papers. Paraphilia
I have friends who are arrested for having rolling papers and they smoke tobacco
Recently I have had a very unpleasant experience with State and Local LE and after giving it some thought, I now feel it’s time to share some of the very valuable info that I've learned on what NOT to do to get caught!!!
1. Never stay in the same location more then a week or two. If you stay longer you are risking being placed under surveillance.
2. Find out how close your local Police Dept. is to your location. If it’s less then a mile choose a different location.
3. Buy a wireless camera detector from Radio Shack or Ebay and check the inside and outside of your location daily.
4. If you place used condoms or wrappers in garbage!!! Remove garbage from your location ASAP.
5. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER throw you garbage away by your location (Hotel rooms included!) take it a couple miles away. Throw garbage away daily!!!!
6. Do not have bulk quantities of supplies around. Ex. Condoms, Lubrication, porns, etc………Especially if you’re staying in a hotel.
7. If you answer your own phone, clear history daily and don’t keep contact #’s stored in phone.
8. Buy a good (meaning expensive!!!) shredder and shred anything you write down during your day then if at all possible burn it or stuff it in the garbage disposal.
9. Try to keep as little client info around as possible. This includes appointments and any other info relating to your daily schedule.
10. If you ABSOLUTLY need to keep appointment schedule and contact info. Use yahoo or Hotmail calendar and address book. Do not keep anything in you comp.!!!
11. Clean, Clear, Scrub, Shred and Chop anything in your computer (history, Temp. files, etc….) on a daily basis. There are a few programs you get that will wipe your computer clean. BUY THEM!!!
12. Never keep any Bank information around deposit, withdrawal slips, etc……
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY……….
If you think you are being watched or something strange may be going on. RELOCATE to another town, county, state even.
These where all things used against me, so please don’t make the same mistakes I did!!!
Good Luck and as always keep Safe
ALSO GENTLEMEN…..
If you schedule an appointment with someone new and she greets you at the door acting strange (Ex. Asking how much money you gave her and what you’re interested in????) Even if she is well known and has many review’s. Don’t trust her! A seasoned professional would never do something like that.
MONEY+ACT=ARREST
Tell her you’re not looking for anything sexual!!!! You would just like a massage.
DON’T BE HORNY AND STUPID....... BE HORNY, BUT ALWAYS BE SAFE!!!!!!
To the few clients who know who I am....
Thanks for being there for me when I needed you and remaining true friends to me during this whole rotten ordeal. You'll never know how much your support meant to me. You guys are the BEST!!!!
-- Modified on 6/5/2005 11:21:34 AM
-- Modified on 6/5/2005 11:25:09 AM
-- Modified on 6/6/2005 1:02:10 AM
-- Modified on 6/6/2005 1:12:51 AM
Thanks for providing something positive and helpful out of a bad experience.
If any hooker is this paranoid she should go get a job stacking shelves in Walmart. Surveillance cameras? Shredders? Are you serious? And as for flushing condoms down the loo, well, shame on you! I don't have any moral qualms about sex for money, but I have no wish in being implicated in the death of some poor innocent marine mammal.
I really don't believe that LE is even remotely interested in busting people for prostitution unless they are making such a nuisance of themselves that LE can't ignore it or there is evidence that hard drugs are involved.
Since when was having condoms by the dozen, litre bottles of lube or a little black book choc full of shag buddies a crime? Like they're gonna arrest me for being a slut? I don't think so .............
But it helps support the case that you are no angel either.
Regarding flushing condoms: Condoms are a problem for sewage treatment, so ...
Since you are going to be taking your trash to the local McDonalds for disposal, why not the condoms too?
Wanna bet? You provide the airfare and your expenses here. I get one scheduled apt with you for a massage.... for 1 hour - I will pay the second hour. The bet? that LE Does use these tools..... Belive me, maybe down under things are different but..... here, they lead to a bit of paranoia - and 'member the ole saying, "just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you!"
In some places, lots of condoms, and lube is the same as rolling papers. Paraphilia
I have friends who are arrested for having rolling papers and they smoke tobacco
Arrested for having rolling papers and tobacco? How far "south" do you live??
Please show me a state in the US in which possession of rolling papers alone is a crime. A bong or a crack pipe maybe, but rolling papers? Nope. Rolling papers on their own do not constitute drug paraphenalia.
If you were a minor, possibly you could be charged because possession of tobacco by a minor is an offense.
However, "drug paraphernalia" must have as its primary purpose the ingestion, use etc of a controlled substance. Tobacco rolling papers, whilst they can be used to smoke dope, do not have this as their primary purpose and therefore they are not DP under US Code.
However there is nothing to stop LE from arresting anybody for anything if they feel so inclined. However, whether you are firstly charged and secondly convicted is a whole different ball game.
but even if you're not convicted arrest records can be difficult to remove at times.
"there is nothing to stop LE... whether you are firstly charged and secondly convicted is a whole different game."
Look Emma,
I have a friend who was arrested in Texas for having a good quality kitchen knife in her van. They were looking for pot and couldn't find any, so used an excuse to arrest her. Of course the charges were dropped. Doesn't mean it didn't cost her quite a bit of time and money.
Would this same officer have considered using the excuse of bulk condoms and lube?
As to US code, different states have their OWN definitions of paraphernalia. Do not be so certain that you get your own self in trouble during one of your tours...
xoxo,
S.
is that, like anywhere else on the planet, if the local constabulary has reason to harrass you they will. You've already cited examples where possession of rolling papers and a kitchen knife (in a kitchen!) were enough to get you 'done'. So, will someone please explain how that is useful information? How does one act on that?
My point is this, LE first become interested for reasons other than possession of condoms, lube, rolling papers, kitchen knives etc. The information that is pertinent to avoiding arrest would be about what actions on the part of a provider would provoke the interest of LE. A post from real providers who had really been arrested about their understanding of the motivation behind the arrest would be valuable, useful information.
Handy tips such as 'always carry an industrial quality shredder' are not really in this league.
And yes, I am aware that drug paraphernalia definitions can vary between states, however most point back to definition and it is the one which applies in Utah.
...that the laws in Amsterdam are draconian.
What you have said is true, irrelevant, but true...
Why irrelevant, 'cause all this stuff is supporting evidence... that is, lube, condoms, condos, and the like, are all "tools of the trade..." They support the act + $ as the original poster said... Remember all of the supporting stuff on Michael Jackson....
As someone pointed out, having cigarette papers handy, does not mean that you do drugs.... nor does having a bong or pipe (and they are not illegal)... But it is a part of the sthick.... As a sociology professor once said, I can change your perception of me, with simple things, it is never the biggies... example, I once carried a syringe and needle with me all the time.... Why? Saying that would raise a lot of speculation... (although there was a legit reason - there would be a perception and in the case of a lot of condoms, lube and other stuff... the perception could lead to more than just passing curiosity by le...)
Having had a friend hasseled by LE...while there was no arrest, they did make her life misserable... so Stuff happens... do not make the case for them....
Also, if they are going to watch you, tap your phone, etc... all this goes to probable cause... ie, a warrant - and if they can nab information by just going through your trash - hey - that is easy...
And unless ya knows the law in each and every state (parish, territory, country, county, district, provance or other jurisprudence) why take unnecessary risks... It does not pay.
Just remember your namesake... Bond, James Bond and don't take chances.... The info, is offered not to hurt anyone, but to maybe help!? it is not bad advice... only that, advice. I would hate to have any of my escort friends hasseled or arrested.... that would not be nice.... could send me off to my Fortress- perhaps you have heard of it....
Peace.
The police in some places in the US are terribly harassing about such things. And the punishment doesn't begin with the conviction, it begins with the arrest. For providers in San Diego, for instance, police are known to not really care if they had a solid case. They would take women downtown in handcuffs anyway. If the charges are dropped later due to lack of evidence/sloppy procedure, the officer making the arrest wouldn't be made to pay a bit.
There is no great regard for fairness in the process, I'm afraid to say. I don't remember rolling papers being illegal in my state, and what you say is true about it's primary purpose, but you count on the fact the the legislator writing or amending the law sees it that way. A judge may soon strike it down, but that doesn't matter if the primary purpose is to harass.
Condoms, a lot of them in the trash, constitute "probable cause" to get a warrant for searching your home or your computer. And LE people are not too gentle with your property when they search. If you happen to have a large sum of cash stashed, kiss it goodbye. With asset forfeiture, they don't have to wait for the the conviction, and until it's adjudicated in court you have no chance to get it back. Your computer will probably be seized for evidence, and even if there's nothing incriminating on it, don't expect to get it back for a few months at least, until charges are dropped.
And the LE who commit this action, no matter how wrongly, will never be punished, they will likely never be disciplined at all.
Some people will always look a gift horse in the mouth????? Instead of just saying, "Thank you for the advice and maybe I'll use it, maybe I won't" They have to prove something to themselves by basically saying, "Well Huh, screw you, you don't know what you're talking about. Plus I'm just such an expert on the subject, that I don't need any advice" Well best wishes to you and I hope nothing as horrible as what I had to experience ever happens to you.
Because a) I don't believe you're a provider and b) I doubt you've ever been arrested and c) fear is a well used instrument of control. And I don't like it when people try to control me.
Sometimes you are downright rude. I like funny better.
If I recall correctly you are not even in the USA? Why would you feel that this post was even directed at you, much less an attempt to control you? NOW who is paranoid?!?
Laws are different here and vary wildly from state to state. Many individuals are arrested without actually breaking the letter of the law and must *prove* their innocence through a very expensive and painful process. I hope you never have such an issue when you are in the states... assuming you tour here? Donno'. Not really interested in looking you up right now, more interested in my own sleep.
There are some very good ladies who have gotten in trouble lately who have done their best to share their experience and lessons with us... why are you so sure this is not one?
I did not read an attempt to promote fear and control in the message, simply some ideas for us to consider when thinking of our own safety.
I appreciate the ideas.
Sola well said. I could not have expressed it enough. On this board, I have noted that on occasion someone posts info that, on the whole, is common sense and good advice. Then someone else - for whatever reason, feels that they have to counter the advice. Most of the time, I like Emma's comments... but this time, not following at least some of the advice that was offered, could potentially hurt someone.... so Thanks.
Hmmmm, I'm off to Saudi!!! xxx
valid, but some of them appear to be based on paranoia. They still have to prove that you are offering sex for $$$. Some of those things you mentioned might be supporting evidence, but without sex offer & $$$, they don't have case. You could be sexually active!!! Just curious.
It really does not matter what state - the point is to be careful... It could happen ANY where.... even in parts of NEVADA!!!
All I am offering is a little advice. What you do with it? Well that’s completely up to you. A lot of these things can be used against you in order to obtain a search warrant. Which in return could lead to you getting a visit from some very unwelcome quest’s at the wrong time. Followed by you then having to go through all of the stress and hassle of explaining yourself, not to mention possibly having your alter ego revealed. Is it worth it? Making sure you’re extra careful??? To me….YES! To you…..well again that’s up to you to decide.
OH and yes you’re very right about the condoms. I’m sorry, just make sure you make regular trips to McDonald’s and order me a Cheeseburger and a Diet coke!
I travel with my handy dandy scanner anywhere I go..
Radio shack they can be retrieved from 99 dollars. Its something no girl should be without.
I take my PDA when traveling.. easy to toss out a window or dispose of quickly.
This is another device I take on outcalls with me.
http://www.mesinnovations.com/equipment/rfdet2.html
Wired for sound .. No matter where I go..
As for the garbage.. I bag it up.. and dispose of it outside the hotel location..as gross as it sounds..
-- Modified on 6/6/2005 6:00:58 AM
I've also found that a memory stick can be very handy and if needed can be dropped in a glass of water at short notice!!!!
I believe in parts of Australia this is legal. Girls from Oz dont have to worry about all this.
-- Modified on 6/6/2005 11:46:37 AM
Exuse me, but what is a memory stick? I've never heard of it.
Memory cartridge, similar to what you might use in a digital camera (more of a 'stick' shape though).
Sony products use them, though there are equivalent devices for all PDAs/Computers.
FYI: dropping a memory stick doesnt' do anything to it, apart from making it less dry. If you took it out of the water, and made sure it was dried out before using it, it would work fine.
The best way to go is to use online resources exclusively (Yahoo calendar, Yahoo email, etc.). If I were a provider, my laptop/PDA/whatever wouldn't have anything hobby-related on it...everything nca be done on line, and it's waaaay harder for LE to get their hands on.
I'd argue it's actually much easier for LE to get their hands on online data. Yahoo, etc., will happily comply with requests from LE. They'll send all your data over with a nice gift-wrap bow.
Best bet would be to have something like a PDA that can be physically broken (dropped out of a car window, tossed off the roof of the building if it's tall enough). Zapping the memory stick's contacts (metal parts) with a stun-gun might work. As you said, chemical destruction is going to require something tougher than water, like an extremely strong acid.
Anyway, if you damage or destroy the unit, LE has to find it, then re-assemble or repair the device to get the data. That's gonna require a lot of technical expertise that simply isn't available in most juristictions unless it's a high-enough profile case to ship the device to something like the FBI lab. Getting around your Yahoo solution requires a phone call and perhaps a fax.
-- Modified on 6/6/2005 6:29:43 PM
Having requested information from several online services, on behalf of LE (I'm a network security nerd IRL) I cna tell you that they most certainly do not happily comply. Court orders are required, and are not easy to get.
However, all of that is beside my point (which admittedly I didn't make clear at all). LE has no way of knowing that the online resources exist in the first place if you don't link them to web sites etc. Or, more accurately, if LE has jumped through all of the hoops necessary to find out that you use Yahoo calendar, then they have a hard-on for you (and not the kind you like either
, and it won't matter what precautions you take.
If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to post a list of ways that you can help make sure you stay anonymous with regard to using the Internet to hobby, and a few on line tools that you can use every day that are free, safe, and effective (I'm talking about calendars, contact lists, etc. for providers and hobbyists here, not security tools, although I have that stuff too).
1. Using a prepaid cell phone service that is not tied to your name.
2. If you use a shredder, use a cross-cut shredder.
I Beg to differ.. my son dropped his memory stick in a puddle.. It fell out of his car... destroyed.
As for not person that isnt a provider.. Thanks.. but thats like giving advice about 16 yr olds, and you only have a 2 year old..
If we dont have cell phones, if we dont have laptops, if we dont have pdas, if we dont have a computer.. shall we go knock on the mans door to tell him where we are and when ? LOL
eom
And ignore the naysayers from other countries or who otherwise lack the experience to appreciate the advice.
Oh bugger off sweetie. I probably have more 'inside' knowledge of how this all works in many many more parts of the globe than anyone else on this board. I also regularly search the media (current and archived) and stats sources like the Criminal Justice Report and Rand Org (for Calif stats)
Bottom line, there is very little evidence that US LE actively pursues prostitution unless a) there are drugs involved b) there is obvious solicitation to the point where it is a nuisance or c) minors are involved.
Yes, arrests are made and occasionally charges are laid against independent escorts. However, my research (and it's bloody thorough) indicates it's as likely as being hit by a meteor. So for all you "non-naysayers" who love to have your paranoia gland stroked, remember, when you nip out to the 7-11 for a bottle of milk, don't forget to slap on your hard hat. Those meteors can be deadly.
Interesting, in all cases they seem to think it was because someone gave their information to LE who then pursued it by investigation and/or a sting operation. I understand this is one of the most common causes for an investigation. In addition, you forgot one very important factor: Tax evasion.
The advice given by the lady in question is to 1) be able to detect if she is under surveillance and therefore be able take the appropriate measures, 2) make herself a difficult target for LE so if they were to start an investigation, they would stop due to lack of evidence and 3) avoid creating or destroying supporting evidence that could be used against her if she is arrested, to avoid a conviction.
I have no doubt, Emma, you're more familiar with LE activity throughout most of the globe and are somewhat knowledgeable of the US system. However, there's no doubt in my mind that the ladies here know the reality of LE practices in their local area, and that this differs throughout the country.
I also have no idea, Emma, why you would choose to criticize a woman who would offer sound advice for some people who choose to live life more cautiously. She obviously speaks from experience and while I don't know who she is, some of her tips I've heard from other providers so I have no reason to believe she's not a legitimate provider.
If this type of post is not for you, why not leave it alone. There's plenty of issues and people far more worthy of criticism.
-- Modified on 6/8/2005 3:31:17 AM
to the societal belief that prostitutes must be drug addicts and cause trouble for those around them. As most of ya'll know, I was arrested last week. I am NOT, by anyone's standards, considered a nuiscance to my community. I'm quiet. I'm friendly with my neigbhors. I am heavily involved with a local charity organization. Furthermore, I do not use any heavy drugs of any sort, EVER. I smoke pot a few times a month but that's it. I don't even drink or smoke cigarettes.
LE busted me because of an Internet ad that did NOT say anything explicit. It was the standard call girl type ad. They called girls from the site, busted who they could, and will attempt to catch everyone else at various times.
Emma does not live in my city. She shouldn't speak so authoritatively about what happens here until she's arrested. When she's arrested, then we can have an in depth heart to heart about how to protect yourself from law enforcement, and I guarantee it will have nothing to do with drugs or being a public nuisance. Think it can't happen to you? That was my thinking until last week. I now know differently.
Bugger off? "inside knowledge" independent escorts only? Meteor? Bloody thorough?
Wow, I give. Possibly a kryptonite meteor, no?
Bond, have ya ever had a knock at the door? followed by that lovely statement "open up, it's the police" Oh, guess what sweetie, depending on what LE believes is on the other side of the door - they DO NOT HAVE TO KNOCK! With respect to arrest, they do not have to arrest you to make your life miserable.... think about it! You're smart! and do you really think that EVERYTHING is reported in your data capture sources.... REALLY! Meteor my eye!
Tell ya what, Come to the US -- there are at least two reputable agencies who would love to promote you in different parts of the US.... Don't take any of the precautions outlined, be visible, establish a clientelle - and let's see what happens.... I'd love to see the result - maybe nothing.... but you know what, my guess is that you would be a lot more cautious, and play it a little safer... So, for those newbies to being an escort - think about the original post, and where you can, follow the advice.... Girl in DC... Babes... I would love to meet you, cause you sound very interesting.....(in here and your posts) but then again, you probably don't like old green men (I do not smell).....
In bizarro world, I understand she's totally straight and stuff.
What is it about this board that robs usually intelligent people of basic comprehension skills?
I have said 1) if the police want to make your life miserable they can, regardless of the validity of their initial approach and
2) I have stated to the point where it's getting really, really repetitive that being low profile (i.e. not making a nuisance of yourself) is vital. I think having to slip the bellboy an extra $1 to lug your shredder to your room is probably at odds with this concept.
And to she who was arrested, I am certainly not adding to the belief that all prostitutes are drug users. Just making the observation that these girls get targeted because they're a nuisance. Gee, that's a surprise. Why were you targeted? Why that site? That would be useful information to share.
The 'precautions' as outlined by Stay Safe are at best commonsense and in part dangerously useless. Few modes of communication are less secure than a Yahoo or Hotmail account. If security is a concern, don't touch them. Traveling with a wireless camera detector and shredder looks awfully suspicious don't you think? These items could possibly require a mite more explanation than a 12 pack of condoms and a bottle of KY.
And those pesky condoms in the trash bin, what does one do with them? Personally, I don’t think the average housemaid is going to raise the alarm if she finds 2 or even 4 condoms a day requiring disposal. Of more concern is why she is going through your trash in the first place. Of course, she could be a federal agent executing a sneak and peek warrant, in which case there’s not much point in trying to cover your tracks. The absence of condoms will only lead to the assumption that you’ve swallowed them as training for your burgeoning 2nd career as a drug mule and, really, who wants to be x-rayed if she can help it. Better to allow said agent the thrill of bagging them up and giving them a number.
If you are worried about the fallibility of your computer security, then invest a few dollars and speak to a forensic accountant. Trust me, there is NOTHING you can do that will cover your tracks and leave you with a functioning useful PC. It just isn't practical or feasible to scrub all our records at end of day. However, this is of course moot if one is using a Dell Optiplex, as these hard drives will spontaneously destroy themselves within one week of the warranty’s expiration.
I think Ciara's advice to use a PDA and be prepared to trash it is probably the most useful tip to come out of this whole discussion. But even that is difficult given that the little buggers are amazingly tough and destroying their hard drive requires considerable upper body strength and a claw hammer.
Now the $64,000 question is why do I care so much about posts of the Stay Safe ilk? Because they make women afraid and, more pertinently, afraid of LE. Scared women don’t file police reports when they get bashed or robbed. Scared women are vulnerable. They are easy to blackmail and intimidate into offering ‘extra’ services or at a lesser price. I’m not trivializing women who are arrested or harassed by LE and I am very concerned that they should go through this alone. The frequency of and interest in posts about how to stay safe and reports about incidents of violence and theft is a cogent indicator that there is an urgent need to draw up a system for disseminating information and providing assistance on a state by state basis. There is safety in numbers, and we’ve certainly got those, as well as expertise in the law (what percentage of men on these boards are lawyers? My guess is 50%+) and providers who have experience in the process and causes of arrest and proceeding to court and even to trial (and yes, of course, we also have providers who are lawyers).
We might also like to consider the prospect of (shock, horror) actively engaging with LE to find out what their concerns are and whether we can work with them to address some of the real issues of concern such as breaking the nexus between prostitution and drug abuse and the involvement of minors.
K, but let me provide a different perspective.... Because of Stay Safe's post, one provider in my area had the courage to ask a gent to leave. Why, because he was asking questions that were too inappropriate.... so, her post had a positive effect... I happen to live in a city where a couple of high profile providers were killed.... and who is to say that in the long term, the perp would not go after hobbiests? So, please forgive our paranoia, we do have issues.... So when is your next tour... GirlinDC and I would like to book some time with ya!
Yes providers get killed, and like most homicides it's usually the SO who is the ulprit. Even if there is a serial killer in our midst, I think you can feel fairly comfortable that the perp isn't going to change his MO and go after men. Regardless, there is little in Stay Safe's post that would protect you against physical injury unless you had sufficient skills to slice and dice him into shredder size pieces.
When is your US tour!? I must admit your spunkiness has its appeal.... and I find it quite sexy!!! I bet you take charge in your encounters! wow... nice.... to say nothing of the fact that I find Aussie accents to be as deadly as red kryptonite.... hee hee.
With respect to my superskills, I have the power to belch with an intensity that disables any psychotic agressor, the ability to bore any one within the sound of my voice to death with my long winded tyrades... My ability to knock sinister criminals out with the banality and grade school humor of my jokes... My gross feet alone have stopped whole armies of evildoers... to say nothing of the use of my bad case of dunlaps disease... (my belly done lapped over my belt)
I crack me up..... Take care.... AND lighten up a bit, my goodness we are wound tightly.... As my Brit friends say "you've got your knickers all in a twist"