I have a date with a nice young lady (20 yrs old, lives with boyfriend) who does erotic massage only. Since she only does out-call, I will rent a room at a hotel. I asked, and she She is excited about being at a “romantic getaway” hotel. One that has a whirlpool, misting steam room, afternoon rates for a quick getaway, etc. She is also open to a longer date to a local resort for a dinner and show.
So, it seems that she is interested in the erotic massage and dating aspects of hobbying. Any thoughts on how to encourage her to take the next step towards the dark side?
a wad of cash is pretty much all you'll need.
1) Shave your head
2) Shave every thing else
3)...that's all I got.
Maybe that's why I never managed to turn anyone. Oh well.
Instead, use my uniquely patented excessive body hair technique...on your head, your chest...your back, your ankles, palms, sprouting from your ears and nostrils....
...work for me EVERY time I end up with pretty 20yold in a hotel (at least so long as either cash, alcohol, or overt blackmail is involved!).
-- Deep 'ly hairy' Heat
Hmmm... sometimes all three are required!
-- Modified on 6/2/2005 6:25:31 AM
Do not go overboard and load her up with cash, but treat her fairly and be courteous, you will get rewarded. It is truly amazing how much genuine loving a man that displays common sense, fairness and thoughtfulness will get from women.
Do it up right... Wine,, Chocolates and strawberries, Toys, make it a special get a way for her too. Let her know how special it is to you with your actions not just your cash. You will reap rewards for a long time to CUM...
PLEASE respect her if she declines your advances...this type of post seems to give support to the idea that more $$$ will get you what you want. She may have a SO or BF and what's the point? Are you looking for a challenge?
Client of my GF walked into the gym the other night and slapped her on the ass while she was working out...had I been there, as I am many times, I would have been inclined to break his arms for doing it...just remember these ladies have other lives and why is it so important for you to try to challenge their boundaries?
SM
-- Modified on 6/2/2005 12:50:40 AM
O.k. she's 20 and living with a presumably comparably aged guy. You I take it by your handle and reference to her as young lady are much older.(20+years?)
First thing I have to say is money doesn't and can't buy everything so I would tread cautiously with that approach since you know she does "erotic massage only" if you push the $$$ too hard or fast you can immediately turn her off and forever lose your chance.
I think the best thing you have going for you is your age difference, most 20 year old girls are not use to being treated like women. You should try and pull off your best Rico Suave' routine and really show her how to treat a woman and I think in the long run you will get further with much less risk than just throwing some $$$ at her.
You obviously have some fantasy thing going on since you are taking so much time and pride in picking out the facility, this could turn into a multi date experience.
Like the story of the father and son sheep on top of a hill looking down upon the herd. Son says to father....hey dad what do you say we run down there and fuck on of them girl sheep. Father responds.....no son why don't we walk down and fuck them all.
Slow and steady......that's my half a fag advice.
(God what I would give for a good down and dirty thread now so I can get the stink of this nice honest advice stuff off of me)
You're not just thinking of seducing her, but seducing her with ... wads of cash. Not so subtle, the dark side.
When I think of lecherous old men, my mind always turns to Jabba the Hutt. Luckily I was saved from his evil clutches.
-- Modified on 6/2/2005 6:56:51 AM
And at first Princess Leah thought Obee 1 Kanobee would be her only hope---full hump...
Upon meeting handsome Luke Skydonger she hornily said ...
Is that the FORCE in your pants, an extra fat wadd of dough, or are you just happy to see me?
http://www.ilovewavs.com/Effects/Cartoons/Boing.wav
http://www.jokes.thefunnybone.com/waves/force.wav
Cheers!
-- Modified on 6/2/2005 6:03:46 PM
VonRyan you need to, um, bone up on your Star Wars stuff. Luke is my long-lost brother - Ewww!!
Han Solo is nowhere to be seen, so are your hands solo at present? I'm waiting here at the Mos Eisley Cantina. The atmosphere is out of this world!
Leia
Darlin' Princess Layher...
I present further evidence of your "my only hump" video...lol
and as far as my hands go; they are unfortunatly solo on the dam keyboard right now.
"Warp speed Scotty to the Mos Eisley Cantina...there is a force
against my pants zipper alright...lol...how's that for boneing up Princess?...I know...I know...wrong movie...
Cheers!
I knew there was a reason for that glowing feeling.
That's a great likeness of me, but not such a good one of you, VR. Your metal was less shiny when we were done. Have you finished whirring yet?
Love and kisses, Leia
Almost...especially still whirry right near my loins...lol
Next time...have to lay off the expresso and drink more sambuca.
I'm polishing up my metal so I can be your knight in shining armour once again...then....me "force"...you "glow"...again.
Cheers!
-- Modified on 6/3/2005 5:21:52 PM
If a particularly ugly 87-year-old woman with bad breath offered you a few hundred dollars for an opportunity to shag you, would you say yes? If a gorgeous woman with a great personality and good breath offered you a few hundred dollars to shag you, would you say yes? Imagine if she were a billionaire who was a corporate CEO or a real life princess (translation: she doesn't want to know anything about you after she uses you for her shag). Would you feel offended by an offer of money if a woman wants to shag you?
These are questions to consider.
I've read, numerous times, on these boards reasons why guys like this hobby.
More often than not, two of the main arguments in its favor are the "sure thing" aspect, and the lack of "games" that the same guys complain of in "civie" dating.
Then there comes a post like this, where advice is sought on how to play a "game" in a none -to-sure situation to get what the guy wants. Makes me wonder if it is the lack of games that attract certain participants....or perhaps the idea that he gets to be the only one playing the games, that he gets some kind of adavntage from what he sees as a playing field "unleveled" in his favor.
You obviously have no respect for this woman, for if you did then you would accept the limitations of what she is willing to offer, or at the very least a modicum respect would lead you to honestly inform her of what you would like, and allow her to, with full knowledge of your expectations and hopes, make an informed decision about having a "date" with you and what she would be comfortable and willing to have that entail. Instead, you want to approach her as if you accept only what she is willing to provide, while working on covert machinations to coerce her to ingnore those limits.
Quick question: What is so egregious, to some, about dealing honestly and forthrightly with others?
Perhaps this woman is open to what you want, but why must that be manipulated, why not simply ask? or could it be that you have asked, and after being told "no" decided you still would go after what you wanted regardless of her boundries, so now you want to achieve your ends through "gamesmanship" and distorted seduction?
To the people that answered this initial query with "$$$", would your answer be the same if the question were about a FS provider that wouldn't do "greek" or if he wanted "bareback" sevices? Do you really think that convictions or boundries are so easily swayed....or that they should be so easily swayed?
One more question: Why do you mention that she lives with her boyfriend? Is it because you think this to be a determining factor in her doing only erotic massage? and if so, then why would you want to undermine her relationship? why would you want to possibly negatively effect her personal life for your role as a client in her professional life?
Seems the more I read, hear, and see the less I understand.
Fear of rejection.
> I've read, numerous times, on these boards reasons why guys like this hobby.
> More often than not, two of the main arguments in its favor are the "sure thing"
> aspect, and the lack of "games" that the same guys complain of in "civie" dating.
She is also paid to leave.
> Then there comes a post like this, where advice is sought on how to play a "game"
Not so much a “game” (how to get her into a situation she does not want to be in), as it is a “dance” to figure out how far the lady is willing to go.
> in a none -to-sure situation to get what the guy wants.
You do have a point here. At this point, it has turned into the fun of the chase.
> Makes me wonder if it is the lack of games that attract certain participants....or
> perhaps the idea that he gets to be the only one playing the games, that he gets
> some kind of adavntage from what he sees as a playing field "unleveled" in his favor.
I think you misunderstand the situation. It is not a game on how to corrupt someone who is pure as the driven snow. It is a dance to figure out how far the lady is willing to go. A big difference. A game implies winners and loosers. A dance is one person leading the other person where they want to go.
She advertises erotic massage. Rate is ok for erotic massage, but very low if it was for full service (which I assume it is not). Since she did not have a web site with all the pertinent details, I have been chatting with her (in-date/out-date, visits to my area, etc.). I originally had no intention of seeing her other than for an erotic massage. However, in chatting with her, she seems to be willing to go pretty far with the erotic massage, to the point where I have not yet encountered a boundary. And that is where the dance (not game) comes in. While phrased badly, the question was how take her to her boundaries (dance), and not how to deceive her past them (game). Since one does not discuss explicit acts prior to the first date, it is hard to figure out where her boundaries are. When we do meet, I was hoping to benefit from the collective experience in guiding me on finding the boundaries with the least amount of resistance.
> You obviously have no respect for this woman, for if you did then you would accept the
> limitations of what she is willing to offer,
You presume that she has stated a limitation. That is being quite presumptuous of you. How many web sites of ladies that you dated state: “this is not an offer of prostitution”? Do you accept that limitation? In my conversations with the lady, I have determined that she likes to be treated to nice things, and so far she has not said “No”. How would you interpret being enthusiastic about going to a “romantic getaway” hotel? Am I disrespecting her limitation for making the offer (she said to pick a hotel, and I suggested one)? Am I disrespecting her limitation if she says “yes” without hesitation? The dance is to the point that she is interested in a dinner/theatre date at a nearby resort. The next step is to ask if she would be interested in an overnight date. Would I be disrespectful for asking? What if she said “yes”? What are the implied limitations then? Sharing the same bed but no full service? Maybe that is the “innocent” way to ask if she provides full service.
> or at the very least a modicum respect would lead
> you to honestly inform her of what you would like, and allow her to, with full knowledge of
> your expectations and hopes, make an informed decision about having a "date" with you
> and what she would be comfortable and willing to have that entail.
So, Mr. WebTerrorist, how would you ask an escort you have never dated: “Gee, I’d like to f**k you. How much more for that?” I’m sure you are great with the ladies.
> Instead, you want to approach her as if you accept only what she is willing to provide,
> while working on covert machinations to coerce her to ingnore those limits.
It’s only as covert as everyone else dancing with the ladies before the first date. Once we have met, I am soliciting ideas on how to tactfully be overt with the most likelihood of success.
> Quick question: What is so egregious, to some, about dealing honestly
> and forthrightly with others?
Nothing, if you don’t mind ending up in jail, or being hung up on by a lady who is afraid that you will put her in jail.
> Perhaps this woman is open to what you want, but why must that be manipulated,
> why not simply ask?
Am I more green than you? “Excuse me, but I was wondering if you would be willing to play hide the sausage for $$?” Not!
> or could it be that you have asked, and after being told "no" decided you still would
> go after what you wanted regardless of her boundries, so now you want to achieve
> your ends through "gamesmanship" and distorted seduction?
I have not asked the million $ question, am slowly getting there, but will not ask it until we have met. So far, all the “lead up” questions have met with no resistance.
> To the people that answered this initial query with "$$$", would your answer be the
> same if the question were about a FS provider that wouldn't do "greek" or if he
> wanted "bareback" sevices?
There is a difference between a provider that states “no greek” versus one that does not mention acts. There is no way to misconstrue “no greek”, but if her website is silent, then it is a fair question. So far, other than the perfunctory “erotic massage only” (which is not much different from “not an offer of prostitution”), she has not stated any limits. I presume that full service would entail an additional “tip”.
> Do you really think that convictions or boundries are so easily swayed....or that they should be so easily swayed?
No I don’t, but that is different from finding the boundaries and testing them a little.
> One more question: Why do you mention that she lives with her boyfriend?
The purpose was to show that she is not a liberated virgin. Someone who is open to their sexuality, but saving it for the future. The purpose was to show that she is willing to have sex, and now the question is with whom?
> Is it because you think this to be a determining factor in her doing only erotic massage?
I didn’t ask, and she didn’t volunteer.
> and if so, then why would you want to undermine her relationship?
> why would you want to possibly negatively effect her personal life
> for your role as a client in her professional life?
It was not intended to undermine her relationship. She has given no indication that she is uncomfortable with anything I have asked so far. She has never said or alluded to: “I won’t because I have a boyfriend”.
> Seems the more I read, hear, and see the less I understand.
Your confusion may be due to a preconceived notion that is not based in reality. Maybe you can’t understand someone who is willing to pay for more than just sex. I was originally expecting something like an AMP experience, but with someone who looks like a Caucasian model. It has turned into an interesting adventure. The fun of the chase without the risk of catching her. The fun of the dance (not the games). She is paid to leave.
I did make some judgemnets based on things in your original post.
You choose to title it "Need advice on turning a lady to the dark side"....I took that to mean what it implies, that she does not offer what you want, and you want to know how to get her to...hence the "turning" and not "finding out if she offers".
You state enough about her personal life to imply that you actually know this woman, and not so much that you haven't even met her yet, or actually even have a clue as to what she offers or not.
You state: "who does erotic massage only"...but go on to mention the ways you are trying to see if you can get FS...no metion there that she simply implies "erotic massage only", but in chats has said nothing to make believe that is the case. You say what she advertises, and that it is in line with her rates...
Not a "game" but a "dance" fine semantics, I do like your statement, "A dance is one person leading the other person where they want to go." so instead of palying her into where you want her to be...you simply "lead" her there....not getting the so much the diference, unless of course it is to where she wants to be that is the objective....then let her lead...she already knows where and far she wants to go.
I never inferred she was "pure as the driven snow" or implied that I thought that, and your reason for mentioning the boy friend was to convey that she was not a virgin? in this day and age I don't think most people assume a "chaste virgin" whenever a 20 year old is mentioned...you seem to a bit disingenuous with that statement...but even if you believe it, does that then mean that any woman that is not a virgin is therefore a possible monetary conquest for FS for you?
You ended your first post with "Any thoughts on how to encourage her to take the next step towards the dark side?" ummmmm...so I take it that was actually a horrible typo and should have read: "how to go with her, at her pace only as far as she wants to go and no further without my actually knowing how far she wants to go, in a sort of dance that is only to find her boundries, which though advertised I prefer not to believe, and of which I want no resitance in finding." I could see that being a typo...I mean those keys are like right next to each other.
To the point of would it be disrespectful in asking for an over night date...no, that would be closer to straight forward without going to the ludicrious levels you did later in your post to justify not being forthright.
Hmmmmm....."I am soliciting ideas on how to tactfully be overt with the most likelihood of success." likelihood of sucess? if she offers FS...likelihood would probably be about 100%....if not and you are as you state just "dancing" to her limits then I would guess likelihood at about 0%...because you are certainly not going to try and coerce her past her limits, not sure what advice is required though, since you say you are going to ask her on your first appointment.
As To: "that is different from finding the boundaries and testing them a little" oh see, I wasn't aware of your credentials as a limits tester, had I known she had requested your services as such I of course would have understood your "dance" and the nature of your original post.
"Maybe you can’t understand someone who is willing to pay for more than just sex." I know, you stated repeatedly in this post...you don't pay for sex, intimacy, conversation, closenes, companionship....you pay for her to leave.
As for me being great with the ladies....my success of lack thereof might surprise you...you might also be surprised on what I can and can not understand paying for....but since you like finding peoples boundries and such so much, I'll leave it to you to figure out, but I will give you a hint, I don't understand paying for someone to leave.
Thanks, I think maybe I am understanding a bit more. *grin*
Don't be like 99% of the male population and try to jump her bones on the first or second date. Have your massage fun but build some rapport and trust in the process.
One other responder gave some good advice...treat her like a woman, she's probably not used to it and will love the attention.
When she trusts you and realizes your not like every other creepy old dude she may be ready for some full boning action.
BUT, beware of waiting too long before pushing for the fuck fest. If you do, she'll think you a nice guy pushover and we all know that nice guys wind up being "just friends".
As she gets more acquainted with your light sabre you can mention the other financial benefits you may present her as her skills increase and diversify. Be careful that your special date doesn't reoccur without having a frank discussion about future sabre training. The force is already present in the young one you must help her embrace it.
...and I mean really look...you'll know immediately if you have any chance at all.
Not being a FS provider, she made up her mind within the first 10 seconds of meeting you if she'd ever sleep with you, and you can read that in her eyes.
So far I'm batting 0 for 10,000.
-- Modified on 6/5/2005 7:09:50 AM