Makes sense. But I don't have ads or advertise, I only have reviews. I have over a hundred reviews and none report of anything extra. Plus I make it clear in our pre-session correspondence. So that can't be it.
Why do men keep hoping for more? I have been an fbsm provider for about 4 years now. My webpage is crystal clear on my limits, I have at least ten pages of reviews (what is that? 120 reviews or something?) and they are all consistent. Everyone gets the same level of service. EVERYONE. My profile is consistent. In e-mail correspondence and phone calls I am crystal clear about my limits. And yet, lately I've had a rash of people who aren't happy with the menu. How much clearer can I be? And why do guys keep hoping? Do they think that perhaps no one else has asked me? Or that they are more deserving? Please enlighten me. It's a huge turnoff for me when men choose to whine, wheedle and bargain during the session. These situations are very uncomfortable for me and I don't want to have to deal with them anymore.
...there's always McDonald's.
Your complaint is common in *any* service industry.
The only way to avoid it is to find a non-service occupation.
I don't understand your first comment about McDonald's.
I don't think it's common. You don't expect your waitress to serve AND cook your food. Sure, she knows how to cook, most of us do. But if she wanted to be a chef she'd go to culinary school and wear the big hat, right?
I don't expect my hygienist to do extractions, oral surgery or fillings. Her job is to clean my teeth and she does a fine job. Maybe she has watched enough fillings to wield the drill herself but I'd rather have the dentist do it because that's the job he is trained to do but also the job he signed up for.
At McDonald's, the menu includes specific items and you get exactly what's advertised. Well, maybe not appearing *exactly* the same as in the photos. But then, we all know about photos.
Waitresses are often asked for something "extra" (and some willingly provide it for the sake of an increased tip). Dentists undoubtedly are asked to do something a little extra ("while you're in there can you take the sharp edge off that back molar?") Talk to any contractor about "extras" customers often try to get.
People simply want whatever they can get, prefereably as much of it as possible. Go to a trade show or home show and see all the people walking around with bags full of crap they'll never use...but they want it because they can get it "free".
It even works at the national/governmental level (think "oil").
So maybe you simply need a drive-thru menu display...or considering offering a "super-size" combo.
Although I don't think I've asked any professional for extras without at least expecting to pay for them. And I really don't mind being asked initially. No one should have to apologize for being horny.
What I do mind is the persistence of the client. As if he'll wear me down if he just asks long enough or offers enough money. And the strange thing is, I rarely ever had this happen till the last few months.
Therefore, I think Sola has a point down below about referring pages. I think someone has put me on an site that may be misrepresenting my services without my permission and I will look into it.
"What I do mind is the persistence of the client. As if he'll wear me down if he just asks long enough or offers enough money."
Well hey, some people might take that as a compliment...their persistence may reflect your attractiveness (not a bad thing).
"And the strange thing is, I rarely ever had this happen till the last few months."
Hmmmmmm.
New perfume?
Grey eyeshadow that can't be seen?
Maybe you're exuding more phermones...this could be an occasion to use Ziplock Super Freezer Bags.
Maybe these guys are all married and used to having to beg, plead and wheedle their wives for sex.
It's a challenge and a conquest, and there are definitely FBSM girls that do extras, at their discretion.
I get that. I also get guys who knew me before I escorted and they want bareback FS and they want to give me half my fee and call me every night. I sound like a bitch but I end up threatening to kick their butt if they ever contact me again.
The longer a client knows you, the more they expect. Some of my long term clients want to film us together and won't see me until I agree and I ignore them.
Don't worry about it. If every provider kept up half of the bargain of staying true to her menu, the guys will realize that this is a business and respect our limits
The clients that ask have probably had their
requests fulfilled by other supposedly FBSM-only
ladies. Just a guess.
The ads, no matter what they say, do not always convey the full meaning of what is available. Years ago in a Calif city, I called a service for a "lingerie modelling." I had her in bed in no time. But when we were finished, she claimed that she really only came for modelling, and left me feeling guilty for asking for more, even though I got it. To this day, I have my nagging doubts about that encounter.
Makes sense. But I don't have ads or advertise, I only have reviews. I have over a hundred reviews and none report of anything extra. Plus I make it clear in our pre-session correspondence. So that can't be it.
It's not what _you_ do with your ads (you have
none you say) or correspondence or what your
reviews say. It's what the cvast majority of
other FBSM providers say and do with there ads
and correspondence and reviews. They do the
same and yet offer extras.
Also, read InterestingWomen's post. She has a
good breakdown of the types of clients that do
this.
Emmmm let me see. You picked a trade that is FBSM, where some if not all nudity is involved, your sexy looking as hell, man had clothes off, you are charging a fee for the service, the man gets aroused further and further as the session goes on, many men in other surrounds have received total full service to include BBBJ and beyond, suddenly to your surpise and discust, a suggestion if made for you to possibly blow him.
Emmm, and you are crystal clear about your limits, and its a "hugh turnoof for me", when the man whines, wheedles and bargains.
What part of this do't you get whyofwhy? The first response was right on. There's always Mc
Donald's.
My ads says NO sex. My ad says NO escort. My ad says NO oral. My ad says NO full service. What part of NO do you not understand? Just because you have received extras from other FBSM providers doesn't mean ALL massage therapists provide extras. Where are your manners? Oh, I forgot...they're up your ass where I will happily plant my size 10 foot should you or anyone else harrass me for BJ's and sex during a massage.
Escort ads say donations are for time only and yet we all know that isnt the case. Maybe there is some confusion based on this or its just wishful thinking.
Don't understand your aggressive assault even if its out of pure frustration. What can you hope to accomplish with this kind of attitude?
It says a LOT about this board and society in general when women are called *aggressive* for saying no to questions that shouldn't even be asked in the first place.
you don't find this to be sounding the least bit aggressive eh? lol You should post this on your website and maybe you'll never be asked again as you ask your driveups if they would like fries with that hamburger.
"Oh, I forgot...they're up your ass where I will happily plant my size 10 foot should you or anyone else harrass me for BJ's and sex during a massage. "
Again with this reference. I do this job to supplement my other job. Which is not McDonalds. I am a professional in my other job, I consider myself a professional in my side job as well. I think it's very telling that several of you have assumed my only alternative is working at a fast food place.
As for the rest of your post, I never said I was disgusted. Please don't put words in my mouth. Surprised, yes. I've been doing this for quite a few years and I've never had this much trouble before and I'm just wondering what I can do to eliminate this problem. Because it is a problem when clients come over with expectations that cannot be met.
And yeah - no one likes whining. I'm sure if prior to receiving your BJ, the woman immediately starting whining about wanting more money, gifts and favors, you'd be turned off too. Those details should be understood beforehand.
You ended your message with the exact answer to what is described as a problem. Quote:
"Those details should be understood beforehand."
I guess to avoid more or less no need for the client to be asking the wrong questions, would be reiterate again at the begining of the session to make sure expectations are realtistic and set before proceeding. That might risk ruining the momemt but will reinforce nicely that there are boundaries.
What ever is posted by others here in aliases, please refrain from name calling. If you did not like my post state reasons and move on. No need to start name calling behind the security of your keyboard.
And with an attitude like that, I find her much less interesting.
-- Modified on 4/28/2005 12:29:42 PM
The woman on TER who are actually HONEST and forthright are the same ones who people call bitchy, whiney, un-service oriented, angry, etc. Some of us TELL the truth. I refuse to sugarcoat anything in order to avoid bruising a few overinflated fragile egos. Anytime a woman posts a dissenting opinion, she's pounced upon for again, being HONEST. Although most men are led to believe that the life of a provider is filled with men who are perfectly respectful, hot, clean and wealthy, that simply isn't the case. Life for a provider isn't all strawberry shortcakes and bubblebaths.
I know I wouldn't have received any attention had I said, "Oh, I don't mind men asking for extras during a massage. That's their human nature - you know...to try to take advantage of a woman who clearly doesn't provide extras. Boys will be boys you know. {twirling my hair around my forefinger and blowing bubbles with pink bubblegum} I really cannot blame them asking for sex when it's clearly stated everywhere that I don't offer. After all, they ARE men. They have needs too. It's totally ok with me if they disregard my boundaries. {giggles} But ok, since you're SO hot I will give you a BJ. {giggles again}"
I will grant you, a woman has her boundaries, and a man should respect them. That said, a woman who offers FBSM is almost by definition going to send mixed signals, especially if she is any good at it. Your "honesty" does not bother me. Your attitude, jusified as it may be, does. Statements like "up your ass, where I'll happily put my size ten foot" don't necessarily endear you to me.
Let's get real here. Two adults are naked in bed together, the woman is rubbing her entire naked body all over the man in an attempt to work him into a lather, then she is "surprised" when some of them try to push her limits. I agree, the man is an idiot for expecting sex when she has clearly told him that is not available. If that suprises you than you are just as big a fool as he is.
If it bothers you so much, my suggestion is to just stop offering FBSM. If all you offer is a therapeutic massage and some one starts to push your limits then your are perfectly justified in using that rather large foot of yours. But if you insist on waving a steak in front of a hungry wolf, don't be surprised it occasionally one of them tries to bite you.
If I were naked in bed with a client massaging him, I think it would be very, very difficult to resist all temptation. While I still think boundaries should be respected, I can totally see your point there. However, all my massages are on a spa/massage table. I'm not even naked and my clients are draped almost the entire time. I wish I could say it's because I'm SO hot men cannot resist. Nope, men are THAT horny they cannot resist
Apparently, we are on the same page after all. The way you describe your sessions, any man that would expect more is a moron. Geez a horny man acting like a moron, go figure huh. Feel free to use that size ten as you see fit, with my blessing, not that you need my blessing, but you've got it just the same.
We can actually AGREE on something. I love it! You know, in real life person to person, this conversation would have been so simple. Sometimes the Internet doesn't allow for the most effective, succinct communication. Again, you were right! I admit it
Now if we could only take this attitude over to the politics board. Yeah right, I'll put my crack pipe down now. Does that mean, now I have to be gracious the next time I'm wrong.
Seriously, it nice to see someone actually listen to what some one else has to say, Quite big of you, my dear.
I have become somewhat of a believer in what you state.
Clearly you must be good at the massage business to feel the way you do, and to continue on even with the duress of men asking for more. If I were to have the desire for a massage, I certainly would want to reach you for it. Anyone that feels strongly and is not affraid to speak their mind on the subject gets my respect.
I guess a CIM, would be out of the question?
I am FBSM right now. My ads clearly, clearly, clearly state that I am FBSM. The ads say this is NOT an ad for an escort. This is NOT full service. This is massage ONLY. My rates reflect that I am offering a massage only. I don't know what's in the water lately, but on at least a thrice daily basis men ask for more. It's easy on the telephone. I just hang up. I needn't explain my limits over the phone when they are in BOLD print within my ad. Unfortunately, it's a bit more difficult in person. I usually say something like, "Cupcake, I know that you know I don't offer anything more than a massage. Don't ask again, because the answer will always be NO. Your lack of manners and lack of respect for me is showing."
I honestly think that men who want more are, for the most part, cheap bastards who think they are going to receive more than I advertise. OF COURSE my rate is cheaper than a F/S escort. I don't offer that. And then there are the others who think they are so hot/charming/smart/fit/boyishly cute/fill in the blank with some other stupid adjective that I will just throw all caution to the wind and do whatever they want. And then there are the ones that simply don't care. They want what they want and will do whatever they can to have it.
"They want what they want and will do whatever they can to have it."
And that's why there's a market for providers.
What you apparently ignore are the many websites/ads which pronounce "this is not a solicitation for sex" or "money is paid only for my time" ... there are zillions of such disclaimers which exist solely for the purpose of being blatantly obvious about selling sex.
Maybe you're advertising your services in the wrong places.
...and it doens't even have to be all that sensual. Are you anywhere near DC?
Men want to get laid every chance they can. And the chances in a FBSM are a hellofalot better than most!
Just say you have a boyfriend and stop complaining.
to be clicking on ALL cylinders, to be lost in the moment, and STOP.
Some guys can do it, some can't. It's not really something we have a lot of practice at. Speaking for myself, I stopped seeing FBSM girls all together because of this very problem.
I never did anything untoward, nor did I bag on the girl, but I did'nt enjoy myself completely either.
I'm sorry you've had such bad experiences. It's just that what is required of the guy is quite outside our norm.
BK
I never did get the concept of paying a lady to get me all worked up, just to stop me once we got to the good part. I know ther's a market for it, just like the strip clubs, where some guys will spend the price of three trips to Costa Rica (that one's for you BK) on a woman that they will never get to first base with.
Oh well, each to their own BTW No matter how clear you make it that you are not full service, guys are horny little bastards and some will always have a problem with the word No
though a simple inquiry is ENOUGH.
Whining, wheedling, barganing... kick 'em out your door. None of us needs to deal with that.
Have you changed your advertising lately? It's amazing how the smallest thing can change the incoming flow of clientel.
If not, check your web hits. Where are they coming from? Sometimes our info is "stolen" by other sites and the clientel is not what we are looking for... twice this week alone for me.
xoxo,
Sola
I have been around for years and never advertised. No Eros, No Exotics, when those "free" sites ask me I always say no. This works fine for me. But just in the past few months I've noticed a sharp increase in people expecting more who, when I've asked if they've read my reviews said, "Noooooo?"
I will check the web hits. I think you are right.
Instead of asking if they read your reviews, ask them where they heard about you and what gave them the idea that you would do more.
tell the guys next time that you don't have shower facilities if they ask for FS, and tell them that you have an aching tooth if they ask for french. I just remembered these were my excuses when I did massage. PS. Doing massage can get you in more trouble as they can go after your liscense and malpractice insurance and certain requirements vary state to state on dress code for massage therapists. Escorting or private dancing might be better.
So do I. Its the extras that go so far in making the difference between satisfying and 'vastly exceeded expectations'. Sometimes those extras are financial, but sometimes its something much more personal and intimate.
Well, you are touching their genitals aren't you? If it is just a straight massage with no nudity and no happy endings then I could understand the frustration but in your case,I think it is best to just say a firm "NO, sorry, but I do not do that under any circumstances. I have made guys leave that badger me for stuff like this." And that should be enough to shut them up. If they don't, stand up and ask them if they would like to end their session right then and there. Or, you might want to tell them BEFORE they ever get "comfortable" that you provide no additional services and that you'd appreciate them respecting your boundaries. It is much harder for a guy to accept this AFTER he's naked and fully aroused.