I truly have to acknowledge how you Californians stick out for each other and the love that you both still have for the sick fuck Doctor Shill. He certainly made an impression on both of you from what I am able to read from your posts. LOL!
Let me know when you pass by Omaha in Carl's new "Benz" so my Redneck pals and I can greet you.
One last point, RESPECT is something one earns not gives.
BEAT LA! BEAT LA!
LOTR
We get it!
However, there are times when booking direct is not possible.
Not everybody has a network of friends who are pornstars - thus a first encounter with many pornstars may only be possible through an agency.
Also, an agency is often the best way to meet a still hot and current pornstar, most of the book direct girls are fat and weathered "former" pornstars.
I have seen one of this boards highest rated pornstars over 10 times and I have booked her through Exotica and I have booked her directly.
When I book her through Exotica she shows up on time and we have a great time.
When I book her direct she runs late or cancels at the last minute and the experience is never as good even though it is substancially cheaper.
I am willing to spend the extra cash to make sure I maximum the experience.
So lets turn the page on the book direct comments in nearly every thread.
carl
Carl if I had your money, I would book through Exotica as well, but not all of us have your discretionary income, but anyone can build a network of friends in the adult biz, but more importantly its not about being able to afford it, its about getting value for your money. You know Carl you really amaze me sometimes, for a guy who has his own business, you don't show much business sense. Always looking for a bargain.
HAPPY HUNTING
"its not about being able to afford it, its about getting value for your money" -- jldick50
amen!
and with all due respect to Carl, i would take exception to the statement that most who book direct are "fat & weathered"
perhaps it would be more accurate to say that those who ARE "fat & weathered" are more likely to book direct (since agencies wouldn't see a profit potential in them)
not to brag, but being single with no family to support and a 6-figure income, i too can afford E2K and the others, but i can't justify their prices (in all but the most unusual circumstances). 15+ years of hobbying with the best providers has taught me the value of the hobbying dollar 
It's definitely about getting value for the money. I mean who wouldn't pay more to get something that you know is going to be exactly what you want with no hassles, etc. Paying more for prestige is silly. And, that is not directed to anyone.
I agree with singleton that just because one has lots of discretionary income doesn't mean they don't like a good deal. Rich or poor, everyone likes to get a good deal. If $2000 is a good deal for some great. But, if $300-$500 gets you the same thing, then why wouldn't you pay less?
Because the NEW shill for Exotica is getting discounted rates in exchange for putting in a STRONG word them, what else can it be?
Sorry Carl, YOU ask for it.
LOTR
I'm stunned at the amount of replies Carl's post has generated, and I'm also surprised at how vitrolic some of them are.
Maybe it was his holier than thou "I'm tired of" heading, but Carl does make a few good points.
I always book direct whenever possible... That we all do the same, or at least attempt to do so, I think is something that goes without saying. We're all looking for the best bang for our buck (pun intended), and who wouldn't want to cut out the middleman and buy holesale (pun also intended)
But while we all rail against the evil money grabbing agencies, keep in mind that they do provide a valuable service, and if they were suddenly to disappear, most of us would end up wishing "for the good old days".
First of all, until you've spent some time in the hobby, it's hard to develope the connections to meet the ladies directly. A lot of them only book through an agency, and a lot who do book directly only book through the referral of another pornstar or a client she's seen and trusts.
And it's hard for a newbie to establish himself on these boards... When I first started posting, it took me a long time to gain enough respect to have a few senior hobbyists such as Doc and San Te and Stripperfan "take me under their wing" and act as mentors, which got me started on the road to degradation that I now follow. But I started out using agencies, and I'm glad they were there for me in the beginning.
And I've said this many times, most of the pornstars live in the LA - Vegas area, and without agencies guys from Philly and D.C. and Chicago, Detroit etc. wouldn't get the chance to meet them without either flying to the West Coast or being able and willing to spend the money to fly the girl in for an entire day.
If every pornstar who toured with an agency booked directly with anybody who asked, the agencies would eventually be unable to support these multi-city tours, and suddenly the East Coast and Mid-States would experience a pornstar drought. Let's face it: What pornstar in her right mind would want to go to Detroit? - LOL
Also keep in mind that agencies like Exotica and Body Miracle, et.al. have made one hour appointments possible by offering the girls volume bookings. Agencies like Nici's Girls and Centerfolds Club do not offer tours, and usually aren't interested in short appointments... they're a lot more work (and incur much higher expenses) than booking a girl for an evening or a weekend, which is why they cater to the high roller client, which leaves us average PSE lovers out.
So by all means we should all endeavor to book directly... a buck saved is a buck saved... but rather than taking Carl's suggestion to stop posting "book directly" on every thread, let's all agree that agencies do have a place in the hobby... they get the girls out and about... and respect those who wish to use them. To each his own.
And one more point... while I'm not particularly tired of reading "book direct" posts, I am getting tired of seeing posters being called "shills" and being accused of getting discounts simply because they speak positively about an agency... inevitably if someone praises an agency for any reason, the old "you're a shill" reply always turns up. It seems that it's honorable to blast an agency when they do something wrong, but it's unacceptable to praise them when they do something right...
-- Modified on 6/29/2003 10:44:55 PM
before i do, for anyone that doesn't know, i'm one of the proverbial newbies Eddie is speaking of. heck, i haven't even scored one PSE yet! but i plan to without going through agencies, if i can help it. who knows, maybe things were different few years ago and one really needed to go through the agencies before seeking out connections.
anyway i digress, the question i wanted to ask is one i asked in a previous thread, but it went un-answered, so i'll ask it again (and i'm actually looking forward to an answer that proves me wrong as opposed to not knowing)
if in most cases the girls have to foot the majority of their own expenses (airfare, hotel + those $18 burgers! besides advertising and other ancillary functions, just what is it that agencies do that justifies $500/hr?
i'm not being facetious, i really want to know. is it that they provide a 24-hour body gaurd that's waiting in the next room? on-the-spot bail money in case of an arrest? or is it the much-touted "thorough" SCREENING job they do?
i'm not being a smart-alec, just a clueless newbie! LOL
-- Modified on 6/29/2003 11:40:50 PM
As I said before, I am not you or the other men you mention, which I have never heard of except for San Te and the Shill Master The Doctor. It only took me two bookings several years ago with one agency to get a share of the pie, and any newbie can do the same. All they would need to do is to seek one of the most popular ladies in the adult industry and the escorting world, providing her with the best treatment a man could give a woman and they should be close to an Agency-Free adventure from that point on.
In my opinion, Agencies are for the Corporate Executives that do not have the time to spend searching as we do or for newbies that do not want to do their homework as we do.
The bottom line is that I do not need an agency to get what I want. I am not a millionaire but do work very hard for my money and continue to work hard to get the ladies I want directly too.
Eddie, no hard fillings but let's be honest for once.
LOTR
-- Modified on 6/30/2003 9:07:01 PM
But you have an ego like one. No offense meant, I actually kinda like your style.
This part of the hobby is generally for wealthy guys only. If you can afford $600 on a routine basis, chances are you can afford $1500. It's just a question of value in deciding to pull the trigger. Consider what it takes to pony up a fee for Miko or Kathy or Keisha. Some, like you, know how to work the system. Others can't be bothered or aren't as talented in that department. Consider a Thurston Howell approach. What's $2500 when you send Lovey to Safeway with $5K to do some grocery shopping? Some guys are like that, and there's apparently enough of them around to make the agency business a worthwile one.
Love or hate Seth, he found a way to see ladies at prices he could afford. It's not my way, nor I hope it's yours (after all, who is the REAL prostitute in those encounters), but his technique was orignal and effective.
TER is an LA based board-many of the guys posting here are from LA-myself (although Vegas is really home now), JLD, Rick2, Carl, etc. The scene out here, due to the presence of The Industry (both adult and straight) is a little different than it is on the other coast, which is primarily TBD-land. Yes, we have our favorites, and our gushing about them can be confused for pimping, or worse, White Knight Syndrome, but no malice is meant. Even you admit to the agencies having value for you. But I like to think we're all good clients, and good consumers, so perhaps a little more respect is in order?
Thanks for your comments Number 6, but for starters I'm neither from the east or west coast so I have to hustle to get what is easier for you guys in the west coast were most of the ladies live and that is something everyone has options on achieving by moving there or living nearby. I have always thought of either moving there or saving up to invest on a property there. The state of California has given me lots of business and ladies, so I have no problem with those that live there and never will if you ever thought so.
I totally agree with Jldick50 that you guys have no need to recur to agencies to meet the best out there. Heck, I do not live there either and I do get my share of the pie with pride and perseverance.
I do not think one has to be wealthy to be in this hobby but more judiciousness conscience and budget-oriented amongst all things.
As for you last sentence "so perhaps a little more respect is in order?" I do not know why you made such comment unless you misinterpreted my sayings.
LOTR
-- Modified on 7/1/2003 9:24:07 PM
Because you called Carl the Caddymaster a shill, which is inaccurate.
For a guy from Omaha, you sure have a lot of NYC in you!
Whether YOU like it or not.
LOTR
to see my post.
However, it is just not fair to call anyone including carlspackler the "shill" word simply because they praise a lady or an agency. Unless you've firm evidence about it, it is much better to give others the benefit of the doubt.
Just as in the non PS world, a lot of times, it is easier and more convenient to see an agency ladies than contact an independent. It took me days to contact and arrange meetings for a couple of independents and in the last minutes they both flaked on me. In the meanwhile, it only took me 30 minutes and a phone call to see a good agency lady. It might be a bit different in the PS world but not much, JMHO.
Take some time from your life and spend it in researching and you will find out that by doing the homework you are much better off. If a guy from Omaha, as Number 6 says I am from can book these ladies direct you should have no problem in getting them whenever you please. On the other hand, if you have not the time then, use Carl’s, escort agency.
One final note, I still remember when this board started were the first members did not want to hear a word of agencies but of only direct contacts, then the GOOD Doctor starts shilling for his preferred agency, the one the good old Carl now shills for. I recall when everyone started disliking the idea of his constant agency shilling and now the NEW shillers are reviving it.
Gosh, no one can really understand you guys. Critisizing others for what in the end some of you end up doing.
ROTFLMAO, I love when the guys from LA gang up on me.
LOTR
-- Modified on 7/2/2003 5:18:00 PM
I thought you said you were from Omaha*. Do correct me if I'm in error. Most people are thinking S Florida! (Wonder why?)
The difference between Seth and Carl is basic. Seth was getting deals and moderating on a board at the same time, which is a clear conflict of interest. With the girls, one must take the bitter with the sweet and Seth failed to do that when Lindsey and Nikita D. clearly failed to deliver in the room. For that, among other transgressions, his ass rightfully got booted as moderator.
Two things, and then I'm done with this. First, nobody likes paying retail when they know others are paying wholesale. That's human nature, and you should give a lot of room to that topic on the board. Not everyone is as slick as you are when it comes to negotiating. Second, we so-called LA guys are much more sophisticated on average about the hobby, and judging what I read on the other board, the common denominator is much higher here than over there. No one has been disrespectful to you here, how about some respect in return?
* BTW I am driving through Omaha next week. Let's have a drink if you're around. Unfortunately, I'm not detouring through South Beach.
I truly have to acknowledge how you Californians stick out for each other and the love that you both still have for the sick fuck Doctor Shill. He certainly made an impression on both of you from what I am able to read from your posts. LOL!
Let me know when you pass by Omaha in Carl's new "Benz" so my Redneck pals and I can greet you.
One last point, RESPECT is something one earns not gives.
BEAT LA! BEAT LA!
LOTR
Hey Carl,
I may not have the extra cash you have to spend with the agency you SHILL for but I have built a good network ever since spending a substantial amount of cash with Nicis Girls twice several years ago. I did my homework and new that by booking these two ladies, treat them well, bring them gifts, listen to them, and tip them well it would open a world of opportunities for me as it has been.
I might not be a Fast Eddie, Jldick50, Number 6 and others, but I do get my share of the pie without having to give a piece of it to an agency like the one you constantly promote and shill for.
If you have some money to spear and would like to donate it to us poor hobbyists I can open a shared account so you can help us "CHEAP" but "BUSINESS SAVVY" hobbyists that do get the monies worth for much less than you do most of the times.
One more thing Carl, you and your favorite escort agency don't need to worry as we don't represent a significant percentage of their business. Let us do our thing; we are not stopping you from over spending either.
Finally Carl, I think you stuck too close to The Doctor, who is the number one shill for Exotica. It seems that you have taken over were he left it.
LOTR
-- Modified on 6/29/2003 7:52:27 PM
Your anecdotal evidence shouldn't speak for everyone. One of my favorite porn stars right now was and still is with an agency. I certainly believe she is hotter than majority (95%) of the girls who book only with agency. I emailed her, she suggested me going through agency. I convinced her otherwise and voluntarily provided her all the info I felt comfortable giving her. I reasoned with her why I wanted to book direct and at the same time not compromising her safety. Everything worked out great and we are now in contact all the time even when I don't see her.
It could be done. I don't want people to think eveything will work out like the way my situation did. At the same time, I would not make too general of an assumption to knock other people.
-- Modified on 6/29/2003 12:34:28 PM
If we all agreed to not bring up this topic again - given the fact that we already know - then we'd be doing the newbies a great disservice by leading them to believe they have no other choice but to go with the blood-sucking agencies. Just because you are "bored" doesn't make this a topic or advice not worth repeating.
-- Modified on 6/29/2003 8:49:32 PM
How can a shiller have no reviews?
To me something doesn't have to be cheap to be a good value. If you treat the girls right and earn their trust up front you would be shocked at how many good fortunes come your way.
I book direct more often than I don't - however there are certain girls that catch my eye that I don't mind spending a little more for and it has it's advantages.
I have paid full price for many girls who later feel that they owe me something - and I end up getting free hours or free sessions. One current star who "only" books with agencies spent her own money to treat me to a 4 star in Santa Monica and we spent a day and 1/2 together off of the clock.
I guess I would have been better off grinding her down a couple hundred of bucks and not getting the free weekend out of the deal.
Sometimes you have to spend money to make money!
carl
Carl if you have read any of my posts, you will know that I have had all the things you mentioned and I have done it through a close network of friends and I have ner booked through an agency, I can see why guys in the East or Midwest might use an agency, but in LA we dont need the agency, all the girls live here and there is a lot of competion and we can always see them at 1/3 of the agency price.
HAPPY HUNTING
He now posts that how can he be a shill if he does not have reviews. Do you think we are dumber than you are? You do not need to post reviews to shill but to make the comments that you do for your Agency, shows the classical hidden shiller in you.
I have also gotten all that you think you are the only one getting without living in LA but because I know how to play the game without spending money on Agencies like you do. I rather spend it on the women I meet and treat.
Sorry, but you will always be a Shill to me and to many more here. Go send your agency some flowers and a thank you note for the most recent discount that were given to you, while others get to pay the full price, thanks to your shills.
LOTR
-- Modified on 6/30/2003 7:17:35 PM
Shilling runs deep in my blood buddy and I can tell ya, you ain't no shill.
Bentson For President
You are correct however about the effects a liberal dose of cheddar causes.
-- Modified on 6/30/2003 12:49:27 PM
I loved when you compared me to the former moderator. It just showed your ignorance. To those who pay attention it is very clear around here that I do not care for him.
I also find it ironic that he felt compelled to come out of retirement on this board to defend himself because so many of us thought that you were him.
He was chased out of here for having many of the same characteristics you display. Your hostility and anger really make this board dull. Stop being a bully and just enjoy the hobby!
The hobby can be enjoyed on very many levels, for you it seems as if getting a bargain is part of the thrill. That takes a lot of time and effort.
I like to be somewhat spontaneous - bargain hunting is diificult when time is of the essence.
I hope your Hyundai is running well, I am off to pick up a new Mercedes today!
carl
Carl,
I am not a bully, and can care less how you spend your money in agencies and "Benz". I am happy with my good old Hyundai and continue meeting the ladies at a bargain price. I do not need to be materialistic, as you have shown to be so that people think that I have money. Such behavior shows your immaturity and insecurity.
When possible, I contribute on the boards, including exposing so-called escort agencies that had a scam going on several boards, something you very seldom do besides attacking and criticizing others as I sometimes do justifiably. In 90 days you have post around 9 times of which 6 are attacks 1 was a good post in defense of your lady that others have called a flake, and the rest are shills and lies.
Everyone has a choice of how they are willing to be part of this hobby, but please keep the shills to you. Let the newbie’s ask the questions and make their own decisions without having anyone shilling here.
One final note, which was the character that started this thread? Carlspackler
BEAT LA! BEAT LA! BEAT LA!
LOTR
-- Modified on 7/2/2003 10:03:24 PM
I am not an English professor but I swear the Ring dude and Doc are either the same guy or they both completed their 3rd grade education at the same school because nobody butchers our language like these two!
They both use the same twisted logic - I know I started the thread, what point does that help you make?
BEAT LA? - You better pull up your pants, your envy is showing!