so now it becomes a pissing war.
i think the tip is one portion of the entire experience and fosters a wide range of acceptable outcomes. CO started what appeared to be a legitimate question as to his own experience. fantasy and reality have a blurry border.
I have been discussing this issue with a fellow hobbyist and wanted some extra input...
In my last few sessions, each with a different lady, I got into the moment(s) and got some what lax with my usual habit of looking at the clock every 15 minutes to see how much time I had left. In each case, I ran significantly overtime... we're talking an hour or more. When I finally pulled my head out of my ass and looked for the clock, I apologized profusely (and sincerely), packed up my stuff, and departed.
My thought each time was, "Well, my lucky day! she must have had some time to kill." But my fellow hobbyist raised some interesting points and now I'm wondering if that wasn't the case at all.
In these situations, what would you ladies *expect* from the gentleman? If not expecting anything, what would you want?An apology? A tip/extra payment? Extra $ in the envelope during the next visit?
Guys? What would you do?
And for that matter, what does she really mean when she says "you don't have to go" or "please stay"? My ego, of course, says one thing, but now I wonder if that's not just an in-the-fantasy way of asking me to book an additional hour on the spot?
-- Modified on 3/12/2005 9:54:29 AM
A lady should be the one controlling the time...
that said,
sometimes we just forget.
Also consider that many ladies have a hard time with this issue because they are paid to be enjoyable company, it can be hard to say "Time's up! Please leave."
It is possible for your actions to cause resentment on the part of a lady. You may be seen as the guy who stretches your time without offer of compensation. She may feel that you took her time for granted. If this happens it is likely to be known about you via the grapevine.
A gentleman should inquire about the time at some point if it seems to be "overtime". If you notice this happening you should certainly say something.
I just posted about this on the newbie board. Feel free to take a look there for the post "from an indy".
xoxo,
Sola
I think this one just depends on how well you know the girl.
I have one or two providers who I've built up a nice comfort zone with where it's pretty much understood that if she doesnt have any more apoinments that going overtime is is perfectly fine. We somtime even go out to eat and even on one or two accasions I was ready to stop but they wanted to keep going because they didn't cum yet.
But these are very isolated cases and as I said these are girls I've been seeing for awhile and I always shower them with gifts and tip them as well.
If it's a girl I dont know I try to wrap things up in our agreed upon time but............if they seem like they are enjoying themselves and their body language sugjests they are haveing too much fun to worry about the clock, who am I to argue ;o)
what SolaLove said. The lady should be controlling the time. Ten or fifteen minutes extra would be flattering, but if both you and the provider were so "Into It" that neither one of you realized and extra hour had past, then I am just jealous! Would you be willing to share the name of this provider? Lol.
Seriously, in this instance, I think a very nice tip is in order. Since the lady didn't bring the subject of time up, the onus was on her. IMHO, I don't think that it would have been fair for her to expect you to pay the full freight for an additional hour. Since the subject was not negotiated in a timely fashion, it gave you the advantage of discretionary compensation.
As to what she really means when she says, "You don't have to go", etc., I think that would be the correct time to say, "I'd love to stay but finances won't allow it." Then, if she says it's not an issue, you are one lucky dude! Of course again, IMHO, an nice gratuity is still obligatory. Good post!
The situations where there has been no signal from the girl, and I have gone over just chatting, and it's been less than a half hour or so, I don't think about a pay adjustment.
If I go over because we are at play, even if a lot of time was taken to chat at the beginning, it seems I should calculate more compensation without having been asked. Having said this, there are several providers ---even greatly respected ones --- who filibuster to kill the clock. Almost like a teenage virgin who knows their boyfriend in zeroing in for the kill. Do not fear the words, "I'm done talking for awhile."
If I am at play during OT and not charged for it, I do not look at this as a "score!" When I read reviews of guys thrilled at themselves for not paying for their OT second pop, I just feel embarrassed for them. Some go on to say that they were just such a smokin' lover that the provider didn't charge them for the extra time. How many girls read this and then kick themselves for not saying something.
I did not comment on tips because this is a seperate issue.
I did go back to modify this message because I forgot to address the "does she really mean it?" thing. If we want to play guessing games about what a woman means, we can get into a relationship. If she's saying stay, take her at her word. If you're wondering if she's being ambiguous about payment, clear it up.
And whether in a relationship or with a provider, if they say something that raises a question, why on earth keep it to yourself? Maybe this quandary is just an age issue. Because my solution twenty years ago would have been to wait, ask a man what she really meant, get advice, then still be confused. And that moment when I really needed to know already sailed by.
-- Modified on 3/12/2005 11:33:04 AM
-- Modified on 3/12/2005 11:48:31 AM
-- Modified on 3/12/2005 11:49:02 AM
Our one hour session turned into two. No mention of extra payment, no indication that I should leave.
Four years later, I still her a few times every month and it is always the same.
Am I taking advantage of her time, or is she a great business lady who knows how to develope a regular?
Probably a little of both.
You then did what?
Your just looking to justify your previous actions.
The ladies are lucky to have you.
-- Modified on 3/13/2005 11:47:06 AM
I know I really hate saying times up. To me it sounds rude and I don't want to be labeled a clock watcher.
For a long time I was taken advantage of for that point but I have learned the get up and get dressed routine, which only works if you are not still Playing around.
If I say you don't have to go then I mean it.
If time has run over I do not expect a tip, but if an hour of extra strenuous exercise I will be more inclined to see you again if a gratitude was left.
My answer it is both the responsibility of the Provider and the Client. Some providers are just too nice to ask you to leave, but will remember it, help her remember it in a positive way. It is hard to tell a guy either you cum now or not at all.
When I am at such an appointment, I absolutely don't want to have to consciously keep track of the time. It takes away from the experience that I am paying a lot for.
I am sorry if providers are afraid to be rude, or seem like a clock watcher, but it's part of what we are paying you for.
Don't look at me wierd or call me a clock watching bitch on the boards.
This seems to have become a habit with this gent,
AND it seems the time is significant (not 15-20 minutes).
Really,
this is an accident?!?
IF the ladies do not seem to notice at SOME point you should say something. The problem may be ladies who are too timid to draw the line... and it sounds as if the poster is taking advantage of this.
.02
The provider is in charge as stated already. It should be fair enough to say she knows her schedule and how to politely point out the time without insulting the client. This is to say the provider has experience.
To say I carry a lot of money into a session is saying a lot - I don't. I do however carry what I feel is fair for services above and beyond, and if I ever want to repeat with the provider. But, when it has gone on for an hour more - and maybe you didn't plan on tipping or repeating - you might not have brought any extra$$ to show how much you appreciated it.
Have you repeated this with the same provider or are you afraid to return because you didn't give up a gift or appreciation?
Remember, in life the messages women give you may not be easy to read. When they post tipping in not required or no hidden fees - it might actually mean you should tip and there will be hidden fees - LOL...
As someone else has said - it is a situation where even I am jealous. Except that I've been there, done that, will probably be there again - and each and every time will be treated differently depending upon the situation and person you are seeing.
But I am interested to know if you have repeated this with the same provider
Just my Opinion
...the other two were my most recent experiences. I posted this here to see if I should be emailing them an "IOU".
-- Modified on 3/12/2005 4:42:49 PM
Not always true. If the provider truly wanted you to stay because...then a tip would be in very bad taste.
Having agreed on [and compensated for] a specific time [ex 2 hours] then that is how long I expect the meeting to last. I will never repeat with a provider who leaves early or who tries to get me to leave early. If I choose to try for additional time, I ask and make it clear that I will compenste. If the lady makes the choice to stay beyond the time and doesn't request compensation at the time, then I assume that she simply is in no hurry to leave. [I do not make any assumptions for why she chooses to linger] If its an out-call, then it's simple. When she wants to leave she simply does so. An in-call is a little bit different, and if we have gone noticably beyond the agreed time, I might note this and let her take it from there. I am more sensitive to the time issue with an agency person because I do not want her to have employer problems.
She is the one charging by the hour, so it is up to her to keep track of it.
You should consider that she let you go overtime when deciding on your tip, but you are not responsible to pay for the extra time. That's assuming you told her in advance that you were there for an hour appointment.
What I have found to be hard is when I've asked the guy how much time does he want and his reply is at least an hour. So I'm not really sure when our "time" has stopped. Sometimes we go way over the hour and I look in the envelope after he leaves to find he has only given me the amount for one hour. Other times I find the two hour amount. So now I get blunt and ask. How much time were you planning on when he puts the envelope down. So it is clear that is both of our expatations. Then if I say there is no hurry, you can stay longer if you like, we both know that time is on the house. If neither of us have some place to go, and we are having a good time, why not. So the long and the short of it IMHO, be clear right at the start. Maybe even ask her, if she is going to keep track of the time. If she isn't in a hurry to get up and go, you may find you are staying longer. Then if you feel like tipping, that really is your choice.
I've never confused a provider with vague perceptions of time - I suspect there may or may not be someone scheduled right behind me. So, in most cases, I am prepared to leave at the time I paid for. That being said, there have been a few occasions where I've been told there was no need to hurry and sadly the tip wasn't nearly enough - but this person wasn't expecting it and has seen me several times - almost every time I am told it's ok to stay longer.
It really is important the client and provider communicate well enough at the start so there isn't an uncomfortable ending to an otherwise wonderful experience for both.
And it has always been my habit to drop the gift the moment I walk in the room. In each case, I go into the bathroom to either shower or freshen up and assume they have done the count and know what they are getting so if they didn't understand I wanted an hour or a 2 hour schedule - they should if they look at the gift.
Quote: "I've never confused a provider with vague perceptions of time"
Damn straight. It's not fair to the provider to be vague about how much time you want.. make it clear, in no uncertain terms, what you're expecting. That way you both know the boundaries, and you both know what each owes the other.
She knows how much time she owes you (it's sitting in that envelope); you know how much money you owe her; and if you go overtime, you know, in your heart, if you owe her a tip.. and how much.
Otherwise, you can try to fool yourself into thinking "Well I just kinda say, around an hour.. so I don't really owe anything..." And you both walk away feeling slightly.. crappy.. about the whole thing.
This is part of the reason I focus so much on honesty and clarity.. it really does prevent alot of pain later on. I always say, there's no point in dishonesty: it doesn't solve the main problem, and if someone figures it out later, now you have two problems to deal with: the hurt feelings AND the original problem.. which by now is probably worse.
This is a toughie.... For safety reasons, I only carry the amount of cash that was agreed upon for the session. However, if I do go over, I will book the next session with that provider accordingly and I do not fill that time allotment, then she is comped.... I leave tips, and plan them, for service that occurs prior to me getting there - like accomodating my schedule, or providing a requested service. I also bring presents! So there is stuff that I do for the ladies, but it is not always cash. BUT, there have been a couple of times, where the lady "commanded" that I stay over!? with no stated expectation of payment. Does this happen frequently - no. In two years, I can count the number of times on only one hand... and I do a fair amount of hobbying.... What happens more frequently is one of two things, either the lady keeps track of the time, and signals (mostly with body language) that I need to be satisfied - or I acutally have another appointment, and I request to be satisfied... so I may leave a happy camper... but there are those exceptions.... AND in one very sweet instance, I was with a provider who had a horrendous day. This was my first meet with her, she was not feeling well and at the end of a very good session, as I was dressing, she came over hugged me and said, "I wish that I had not scheduled someone after you as I really need to just sit and talk with someone like you now. You are so nice!" As I say, does not happen often, but when it does, it is a very nice event. And it is not about the sex, it is about respect.
So, treat the nice ones well, comp them appropriately and they will continue to treat you well.
Sometimes I might go over 5 or 10 minutes. I don't want to rush any of my gentlemen friends. I have never had a problem with this. I don't like to watch the clock, but I observe, not making it obvious to the gentleman I'm with. Pretty much I feel it is my responsibility to pay attention, the guys really don't. lol They totally get lost in that hour. If I didn't I'm sure two hours would pass by quickly.
I like to allow at least 40 minutes in between sessions, to freshen up, change linens and just take the time to clear my mind so that I can be ready for my next client. I'm pretty much in a laid back type mood when clients come to me and I'm not rushing in between.
I enjoy "extra" time. I especially enjoy ladies that enjoy the extra time with me. Having said that, I do not presume myself upon a lady's time. At the end of the appointed time frame, a very simple "please don't let me over stay my welcome" signals that it is OK for her to say when she is ready for me to leave.
I think I find myself on the fortunate end of extra time for a few reasons. First, I don't rush through social time... especially on a dinner date. But anytime I see someone for the first time, it takes a little conversation to break the ice for me. Most ladies seem to appreciate a little breaking of the ice rather than being groped the minuted you see her.
Second, I don't cheap out on dinner. I love four star restaurants and beautiful women. It is not uncommon for me to drop two or three hundred on dinner... and that's without alcohol because I don't drink.
Third, I am respectful and work very hard on the details of my date to ensure that she actually has a good time. Most of the ladies I see genuinely enjoy themselves in the social aspect of our time together. Consequently, they tend to reward me by not rushing through the private time or "calling time" at the precise designated hour.
I have not always been this successful. Choosing the right lady is more important than your behavior. Several times I have felt more like I was at a massage parlor than with an escort. Despite my best efforts, I did have one "call time" during cowgirl. I wasn't done and she wanted the fee for an extra hour to finish me.
Good grief. I politely declined and finished myself after she was gone. Needless to say she didn't rise to the level of an ATF... LOL...
Just be honest and respectful. "I don't want to wear out my welcome" is also a good signal that you want her to let you know when she needs to leave.
With my very best ATF's, I have had to call time on them. Once near the end of an outcall, I knew she had a two-hour drive ahead of her and I didn't want her to be too tired on the way home. Another time was 3 a.m. and I probably could have spent the night (we both had such a great time). But I snore badly and I didn't want to dampen the experience.
When a client overstays his welcome (more than 5-10 minutes over paid time) without any kind of compensation, I will never see him again. His overstay shows me that the does not respect me or my time. You know what's the weirdest thing about it? The clients who I adore the most NEVER stay the entire time. I practically beg them not to go back to work, miss the train, go home, etc. They still go! The stinky, boring, delusional clients who think I want them for anything but their money ALWAYS stay overtime.
My girl feels the same way. There was one she saw recently who came early, stayed late even when she told him she had to check out of the hotel and the maid was knocking on the door! He wants to see her again, but she won't because he was so inconsiderate about her time. She was exhausted when I drove her to the airport and I told her, you cannot be everyone's ATF...only do it for the gentlemen you would see again. She is taking that advice to heart.
...a small travel alarm clock. That should take care of that. And I've contacted all the ladies with which I ran overtime offering to make it up to them next time. Unless, as InterestingWomen does, they refuse to see me again, I will be able to make things right.
Thanks for the constructive input all of you (excepting of course Frankie, who I sincerely hope was having a bad day and isn't that pompous in person).
-- Modified on 3/13/2005 12:41:33 PM
I have a suggestion. The next time you book with her, and I do hope that anybody you spent an extra hour with is going to get a return engagement, at any rate the next time you call her try this:
Hey, I had a great time last time I saw you we'll have to do it again, but I guess I better bring some more money with me, just in case we run over like last time.
Her repsonse will tell you how she feels. They'll range from;
1) Yes you better!! (She's miffed about no tip)
2) Oh you're so sweet. (She's not miffed, but she does expect the extra money)
3) Oh, We ran over, I never noticed. Don't worry about it. (I'm sure you can figure this one out for yourself, but if she has that great an attitude give the tip anyway, she deserves it and probably more.)
BTW, I'm having a great day.
HA HA
so now it becomes a pissing war.
i think the tip is one portion of the entire experience and fosters a wide range of acceptable outcomes. CO started what appeared to be a legitimate question as to his own experience. fantasy and reality have a blurry border.
...his response to a legitimate question was unnecessarily rude and condescending.
I mean, what's with "no excuse" lecture? If I knew what the etiquette was, I wouldn't be asking.
-- Modified on 3/13/2005 6:40:53 PM
Many ladies state on their websites as an advertising point that they are not "clock watchers." Doesn't this seem to imply that they don't necessarily expect you to stop on the dot at the end of the hour, that they're willing to stretch a bit to make the service good? If it doesn't mean that, then what does it mean?
Is a lady who seems to have an eye on the clock, waiting for the session to be done so you will leave. While this *may* lead to a bit of extra time while activities are winding down, this is NOT implied or to be expected. A non-clock watching lady will make you feel (for the time you are with her) that there is no clock...
trust me, there always is, even if the lady is extending "freebies" on it.