I agree with some of the things you said, but not all. First, the constant comparison between the fees for escorting and doing videos is really comparing apples to oranges. Number one, making adult films is legal, so she doesn't run the risks of being busted. Those risks certainly entitle the lady to ask for more money. Second, in a porn film she knows the guys she's banging, and in many cases has approval rights over who she shoots with. Additionally, she surrounded by people she knows... she's not alone one on one with a stranger. And she's usually shooting the scene in her home town, on a set that's a car drive away from home, and with a catered meal on the location. Plus, making videos is an investment in her worth as an escort. It's like a stripper investing in costumes to increase her value as a feature dancer. If she could continue to make $1500 an hour escorting without ever making another video, do you think she'd be working for that $250/hr? So once and for all, let's stop making that comparison.
Now as to negotiating... in a free market economy, there's nothing wrong with negotiating... Either you come to an agreement or you don't... but here's some insight into the other side of the bargaining table. If you saw the girl through the agency, she would have made less, but they've done the screening for her, so there's less risk on her part. Also, while on tour, she has additional costs. Depending on the agency, she pays all or part of her airfare, sometimes a portion of her room, her transportation to and from the airport, and all of her meals. usually $15 salads or $18 room service hamburgers. So her out of pocket expenses are higher while touring, making her less inclined to cut her prices.
Remember that while she's touring, her time belongs to the agency. If she sees you directly, she has to make excuses to them as to why she's unavailable for that hour, and she also runs the risk of missing a last minute $1500 appointment while she seeing you for less.
Another factor in her willingness to negotiate is her popularity... if she's doing well with bookings through the agency, why should she see someone directly for the same or just a little bit more than her agency cut, which gives her all the protections afforded by their security screening. Plus, if she gets a lot of bookings through the agency, she increases her worth to that agency, who then will sponsor her tours more often, and also possibly be willing in the future to cover more of her expenses... if she's a proven money maker for them, it gives her leverage with the agency.
Now if she's not one of the "A" list girls who get tons of bookings, she will probably be more willing to take the same or even less than her agency cut. Better to see a guy for $750/hr than to sit in her room alone waiting for a $1500 ($900 her cut) appointment. So you really have to consider who she is and how popular she may be when setting your maximum offer. Miko Lee is less likely to cut her price in half than Chenin Blanc (no offense, Chenin).
Finally, you have to consider where it is you want to see her. She's much more likely to go lower if it's in her home town, where she doesn't have the added expenses of touring.
Negotiating with pornstars is exactly the same as negotiating in any business situation. To be successful, you have to understand what the other party has to gain or lose, what you have to gain or lose, and arrive at a figure that is mutually advantageous to both of you.
-- Modified on 6/20/2003 12:46:38 PM
-- Modified on 6/20/2003 12:54:28 PM
today i came close to my first PSE plunge. it was a high-end girl on BM ($1500/hr) with whom i had corresponded via email for some weeks. when she got in town she called me up to setup a time. she was extremely friendly and sweet but as we got to talking we eventually started to disagree over the price (she seemed to have missed the whole point behind me wanting to book direct).
based on her TER profile (and info from those who had recently seen her) i offered her $1K but she wanted $1300. when i told her that since BM had quoted me a "special discount rate" of $1350, i didn't see the point of booking direct if i was to end up paying the same price!
since we both stood firm, we called it off. the conversation was entirely pleasant and friendly (neither one of us was combative) and it ended very polite and civil like (cheerful in fact). i even said that perhaps we could work something out in the future.
so my questions are:
1. was it wrong for me to haggle like this? i understand that BM would've probably taken the $350 off the top so she would make $1K regardless, but what then is the incentive to me? FYI, she did say that i shouldn't believe guys on TER and that her rates were usually much more than $1500, etc.
2. it seems to me we could have at least explored some compromise. example, a 45-min session instead of a whole hour (doesn't matter to me since i can usually pop only once anyway). doesn't it stand to reason that she should prefer to make something as opposed to nothing? and do/spend less work/time for it?
to be honest, afterwards i felt quite good for standing firm (why should i pay more than the last coupla guys she saw?). i guess one could perhaps say because i'm a PSE-newbie and guys like me have to start somewhere (especially our first time with a PS), but it still doesn't make sense to me.
In addition to the fee of the agency (I thought it was higher than $350), the Economy is still shaky - haggling is completely justified. Unless you were asking for some funky stuff during the session, you were more than fair. I would have offered her $750 and paid $900. And kudos for keeping it professional and respectful. If you start making a lot more cash or she lowers her price you can still get together.
Should you haggle and should you have held out for your price...ABSOLUTELY! Know this, when you book through an agency at $1500, the agency normally keeps $600 and the girl gets $900. If the discount, figure the girl is still only getting 60% so $750 is even reasonable.
Remember this as well. When a porn star books a scene with a video company which includes everything including anal, she gets about $1000 to $1200. For this amount, she has to spend anywhere from 3 to 6 hours or longer on the set to do the scene. Moreover, she is paid by check and has to declare the income on her taxes, so her net pay to do an anal scene works out to about $250 to $350 PER HOUR!
Why any of you guys have fallen fall the prices asked by the agencies is beyond reason. And as for the girls that ask $1k or more....there LOTS of really great porn stars who are much more realistic and accommodating. Save your money for them!
"Save your money for them!"
Care to list them??--here's one..
Raquel Devine
I agree with some of the things you said, but not all. First, the constant comparison between the fees for escorting and doing videos is really comparing apples to oranges. Number one, making adult films is legal, so she doesn't run the risks of being busted. Those risks certainly entitle the lady to ask for more money. Second, in a porn film she knows the guys she's banging, and in many cases has approval rights over who she shoots with. Additionally, she surrounded by people she knows... she's not alone one on one with a stranger. And she's usually shooting the scene in her home town, on a set that's a car drive away from home, and with a catered meal on the location. Plus, making videos is an investment in her worth as an escort. It's like a stripper investing in costumes to increase her value as a feature dancer. If she could continue to make $1500 an hour escorting without ever making another video, do you think she'd be working for that $250/hr? So once and for all, let's stop making that comparison.
Now as to negotiating... in a free market economy, there's nothing wrong with negotiating... Either you come to an agreement or you don't... but here's some insight into the other side of the bargaining table. If you saw the girl through the agency, she would have made less, but they've done the screening for her, so there's less risk on her part. Also, while on tour, she has additional costs. Depending on the agency, she pays all or part of her airfare, sometimes a portion of her room, her transportation to and from the airport, and all of her meals. usually $15 salads or $18 room service hamburgers. So her out of pocket expenses are higher while touring, making her less inclined to cut her prices.
Remember that while she's touring, her time belongs to the agency. If she sees you directly, she has to make excuses to them as to why she's unavailable for that hour, and she also runs the risk of missing a last minute $1500 appointment while she seeing you for less.
Another factor in her willingness to negotiate is her popularity... if she's doing well with bookings through the agency, why should she see someone directly for the same or just a little bit more than her agency cut, which gives her all the protections afforded by their security screening. Plus, if she gets a lot of bookings through the agency, she increases her worth to that agency, who then will sponsor her tours more often, and also possibly be willing in the future to cover more of her expenses... if she's a proven money maker for them, it gives her leverage with the agency.
Now if she's not one of the "A" list girls who get tons of bookings, she will probably be more willing to take the same or even less than her agency cut. Better to see a guy for $750/hr than to sit in her room alone waiting for a $1500 ($900 her cut) appointment. So you really have to consider who she is and how popular she may be when setting your maximum offer. Miko Lee is less likely to cut her price in half than Chenin Blanc (no offense, Chenin).
Finally, you have to consider where it is you want to see her. She's much more likely to go lower if it's in her home town, where she doesn't have the added expenses of touring.
Negotiating with pornstars is exactly the same as negotiating in any business situation. To be successful, you have to understand what the other party has to gain or lose, what you have to gain or lose, and arrive at a figure that is mutually advantageous to both of you.
-- Modified on 6/20/2003 12:46:38 PM
-- Modified on 6/20/2003 12:54:28 PM
Of course your points are valid. But I'd say the questions of WHo the girl is working with while escorting are SUPPOSED to be answered by the sponsoring agency. Aren't they supposed to "screen" the clients?
Your absolutely correct in noting the expenses for a touring girl are higher than when she works in her home location, and she should take that into account when negotiating.
Popularity can and does affect price.
All that being said and acknowlegded, it's more than acceptable to negotiate with the girl. Before it's fun, it's business! And remember, most can and do work for less than advertised.
I'm in total agreement about it being acceptable to negotiate... in fact, I was trying to give guys some things to keep in mind while doing so to make the negotiations go as smoothly as possible.
And yes, that's my point about agencies... they ARE suppose to screen, which is why seeing someone directly is a greater risk to the girl, and may influence what she asks for a direct booking... she has to determine the additional money she wants to take the additional risk of bypassing the agency screening.
of just how thoroughly do these agencies screen anyway? i know they do other things (promotion, advertising, etc) but is "screening" sufficient enough to earn agencies the % of their cut? or at least the seemingly critical factor that keeps coming up in discussions on these boards?
in my own non-PSE world, i simply give my full name to a provider and all she has to do is to type it into google to see (in my case) hundreds of legitimate web pages detailing every facet of my professional and personal life (including employer phone #s and whatnot). subsequently on arrival all i have to show is my photo ID that establishes that i am indeed that person she "researched" online. or does this not work with pornstars?
(i'm betting agency folks reading this thread may be grinding their teeth by now! 
"...and she also runs the risk of missing a last minute $1500 appointment while she seeing you for less." All valid points, Eddie except for this one. If she only keeps 900 of the 1500 quoted, then by one of us paying her 1k, she's coming out ahead. And so am I..
If you read all of my other points, we're talking about $100 net difference for the girl... compared to the other benefits of booking through the agency, the girl has to decide if that $100 net gain is worth the risk and the other liabilities I mentioned.
To some pornstars, the $100 is worth it, to others, it's not. For that $100, they're flying blind, with no backup if they don't call in on time. Also, they have to come up with an excuse to the agency for not being available (and believe me, the agencies are well aware of the tendencies of the girls to do an end run around them). An agency judges a girl's worth based on the number of bookings she gets, her willingness to be ready at 4 am if she gets a call saying that they have someone who wants to see her at 5, the number of extensions she gets off of one or two hour bookings, etc. (The constant phone calls at the end of the meeting from the agency is specifically to make sure that she isn't extending the booking on her own). The more money she makes for the agency, the more they're willing to do to keep her "in the fold". So making that extra $100 off of you might mean she isn't able to re-negotiate her expense package for her next tour. For a few extra hundred bucks, she might be losing twice that in future perks.
Again, it's a decision that the girl has to make for herself, but I'm just pointing out some facets of the business that a lot of hobbyists never realized.
Should it be brought up in email exchanges? Are porn starlets willing to sign release forms which would probably require the showing of their real ids?
Any comment or suggestion will be appreciated.
-- Modified on 6/21/2003 12:06:54 AM
Bravo to you Newbie - hold the line and don't let the "PornStar Mistique" drive prices through the ceiling. I've held and cancelled when we could not agree - on the otherhand, I've made very friendly arrangements with several PS Ladies for between $200 and $450. In negotiations, 'he who speaks first....loses'. Just let them wait on the phone and see what they have to say. Many will come around to an agreement instead of losing the whole event.
Always book direct and always negotiate, if you can't negotiate on the price negotiate on the time, if she won't negotiate move on, there are plenty of other girls, I've seen lots of girls who work for the agencies at 1500 and you can book them direct for 1/3 of the agency price, just do your home work and try and get a referal from other girls that you have seen, this works best for me. HAPPY HUNTING
Do you think negotiating leaves the girl with a little sour taste from it? So if you did manage to get a reduced rate she may be less then 100% inspired when you meet because of it.
because the agency had her do 11 dates that day prior to seeing you. I know of one porn star who periodically toured complaining because the agency booked her for 12 appointments in one day. I think your best bet is book directly with her if possible and to book her in her home city if possible.