TER General Board

Re:Is it possible LE could use e-mails to catch a hobbyist?
bikebryan 18 Reviews 2890 reads
posted

What's "bounce" or "using a proxy computer?"  Answer those questions and I may be able to help you a little more.

For instance, they set up a provider with a site and some pics and some bogus reviews on a board and she only communicates through e-mail and a form on her site...Could they use that form on her site to catch you if you filled it out and sent it??

Is it possible they could use your IP address also to start tracking you on their system??

Don't know, do i sound paranoid? Maybe....seems a bit much just to catch someone who is soliciating(sp?)

I've done the above....Saw a provider on a local board, she has a website with some nice pics and a form, you have to fill it out if you want to see her and she has some links to that other board but I take those reviews with a grain of salt. And she also only communicates through e-mail....also another sign that I just thought of was...she asked how long do u want to see her and how much the fee is for that time u want to see her...is that strange??? Why would she ask the fee? shouldn't she know that already??

Sorry If i'm rambling on now....I'm a little worried now....
i just realized all this after responding to another TER member

:-(

-- Modified on 1/4/2005 5:15:50 AM

Don't know. I would, however, be very careful what I said in emails or on the telephone. It seems to me that if I send an email to a woman whose site says she is charging only for companionship and I ask for an appointment (only), I don't see how there is any offense committed. Same with a telephone call. Anything beyond that increases the risk - IMHO - including all these cutesy acronyms we all use. Maybe some providers or more experienced members have another take on this.

You are just contacting them to spend time with them.....chatting, talking, being in their company, "on your arm in public" so to speak.

For reasons of safety and kindness, you should never mention anything sexual in any correspondence with a lady.

Good luck,

Jacksonlips

Along the same line with what Guz was saying, I just booked an appointment with a provider from an agency I got off of Eros.  Everything seemed fine until I went to check out the reviews.  Since the provider I booked with didn't have any, I went to check out another provider from that agency, then another until I found that none of the providers listed have a review.  

Should I be concerned of LE?

jax042542 reads

yeah, that sounds like a c&d straight up.  a reputable agency will have a like to ter right on their site.  next time check the reviews before booking.  good luck!  hope you didn't get taken for too much!

or instance, they set up a provider with a site and some pics and some bogus reviews on a board and she only communicates through e-mail and a form on her site...Could they use that form on her site to catch you if you filled it out and sent it??        NO

Is it possible they could use your IP address also to start tracking you on their system??     YES

I've done the above....Saw a provider on a local board, she has a website with some nice pics and a form, you have to fill it out if you want to see her and she has some links to that other board but I take those reviews with a grain of salt. And she also only communicates through e-mail....also another sign that I just thought of was...she asked how long do u want to see her and how much the fee is for that time u want to see her...is that strange??? Why would she ask the fee? shouldn't she know that already??    SOMETHING IS WRONG HERE ABOUT THE FEE.  DON'T SEE HER.

Personaly I do not give out my phone number on my website and untill all verification is done the only phone contact is a part of the verification process and that is done quite descretely. I do not publish my phone number on my site for I frankly cannot afford to have all my minutes eaten up by people phoning asking questions that should not be asked and are not serious about scheduling a session. I personaly prefer to make phone contact prior to the session as it does give me a bit more insight as to the personality of the gentleman. I do not see why you would have a problem with the lady in question contact form asking when and how long those are perfectly legal questions and are rather helpful also if one takes into consideration the lady may be unavailable at such time. The only time I can think of one having a reason to feel uncomfortable is if the form requires you to fill in inappropriate responses or to solicit an illegal act.

Clam Digger2498 reads

Why would LE go to such an extent to arrest one guy for a simple misdemeanor?  When they set up stings, it’s usually to arrest escorts.  They rent a couple of motel/hotel rooms and contact as many escorts as possible and then just wait for them to show up.  A lot of police departments have found the most efficient way to control street prostitution is to assign a couple of uniformed officers in a marked police car to park at the curb where street prostitution is occurring.  Customers are afraid to stop and the girls eventually leave.  The presence of uniformed officers also has a deterrent effect on other types of crime.  There was an interesting article on the subject in the LA Times about Hollywood is using uniformed officers and getting much better results.  Their main objective is to rid the streets of obvious prostitutes, a main source of citizen complaints. If LE really wanted to get someone, they could.  But the question is why?

WebTerrorist2630 reads

A few pieces of advice about electronic contact:

-Don't use the email address from your ISP, or from your website (if you have one), that can be traced back to you. Use a "junk" account through hotmail, yahoo, gmail, or the like. Someone good enough at could still attempt to trace route it, but would really just get locations of the servers it went through and get a general location, so not a real worry.

-You can always be tracked through your IP address, but it is very easy to get someone's IP address, you don't need to fill out a form for it to be obtained. That said, most people don't have a static IP, they have a dynamic IP, which either changes each time they connect if on dial-up, or that is issued at a regular interval if on broadband. Unless the ISP is contacted and asked who had what IP address at a given time, you wouldn't really be too trackable. Most could only track to your area and ISP through the range of IPs, and that isn't even exact as some ISPs use the same IP ranges for different areas.

-The greatest danger to security online and off is  the human equation.  No one has come out with a patch for the information people leak through what they write or say.  Social engineering should be your biggest concern. Telling people what you shouldn't.  Watch what you say, and who you say it to.  That is where things fall apart if they are going to.

A little paranoia can be a good thing. Keeps you on your toes, and makes you aware.

Don't be so naive in tracking e-mail.  Even using Hotmail leaves very visible tracks if you know where to look.  Whether you see them or not, your message headers show the track your message took from your IP (dynamic or not) through your ISP system, to the hotmail server, and on all the way to the recipient.  Most newsreaders are set to NOT show the headers, but they are there and contain the complete story of the path your message took (unless your spoofed the header, which is doable but beyond almost all home users).

Also, if you don't think your ISP has a complete log of what user account was using what IP address starting at XXXX and ending at XXXX (XXXX being times) then you are even more naive.  This is all logged.

In this case be paranoid.  If you are worried somebody may track you that's because they can.  The only reliable non-trackable method is to send mail through anonymous remailers (usually off shore) that strip the incoming headers.  The more of these you bounce through before the final recipient gets the message the better the chance they won't be able to track you - but the better the chance the message will never get there as well as the remailers go up and down on a second's notice.

WebTerrorist2142 reads

Huh?

You say: "they are there and contain the complete story of the path your message took "

I Said: "could still attempt to trace route it, but would really just get locations of the servers it went through "

We both seem to know it shows the path, so if I'm naive you must be too.  :p



You Said: "your ISP has a complete log of what user account was using what IP address starting at XXXX and ending at XXXX (XXXX being times"

I said:  "Unless the ISP is contacted and asked who had what IP address at a given time"

We both know that the ISP keeps record of who has what IP at what time...so we must both be even more naive.  :p

Sorry, I'm not in for a "security" contest.

I was offering a simple bit of advice to the average user, that's all.  Most users don't need to know how to completely hide themselves online, and giving more information than needed really only serves to scare when in most all circumstances they will never be looked at that closely.

Though, if you want to discuss this type of stuff in greater detail we could maybe talk at Blackhat, Defcon 13, or Hope.  :)

a provider asking how much the fee you want to pay is strange.  When I email a provider I mainly want to know what sort of "donation" or "requirement" they are seeking. They definitely should tell you what it is, not ask you.  Maybe she's just dumb.  who knows?  I would avoid her just be safe or avoid a headache.  As I alluded to earlier, I never use the word "fee" or any word that could be construed as payment. All recent replies to the best of my memory don't either.  In fact, I just looked at a reply I got today.  

LE uses female officers on the street to catch hobbyists, so I can't imagine why they wouldn't use the web and email.  Less work.  Anyway, this is why we use TER.  Remember one thing as you venture further into this hobby, there are no absolutes.  Same thing as in life.

It would take a bit of time and a ton of resources to track that over the web.  Unless someone ratted you out, and had a P.I. watching your every move on the computer. [example: spyware = where you have been on the web and what you click on] This can be used against you.

But to be honest, that would cost a fortune to gather and put in place on your computer.

Your IP address is an issue.  Try going with a dynamic IP instead of a static one.

A dynamic IP address won't due anything to protect your identity.  Your ISP keeps very detailed logs of what account uses what IP addresses at what times.  Not only is this for their protection and possible billing purposes, but in some states it is the law.

All it takes is a subpoena and those records are turned over to LE.  Now they have a solid fact that your computer was accessing the net via said IP.  The ISP probably also has logs as to where you were surfing via their proxy server, so they have you nailed on that as well.

Your only defense now is that LE can't prove it was YOU using the computer at that time.

So if I bounce or use a proxy computer, they can still find me?  How is that done over a LAN?  It would seem to me that it would be close to impossible if you set it up correctly.

Thanks for the information bikebryan.

What's "bounce" or "using a proxy computer?"  Answer those questions and I may be able to help you a little more.

it was part of a ongoing investigation back in the summer of 2002 called Operation Fleacollar. The local LE (Florida)setup a website and arrested 6 guys in that website sting. Its purpose was to have these 6 guys cooperate and provide evidence against the owners of "the other board".

Although it is possible to setup another website, I doubt it will happen again. The sheriff's office who setup up the website admitted this was the third attempt to setup a web sting. Since they make more arrests with other methods (eg. street decoys, calling girls on the internet), the chances of another web sting are slim to none.

SanDiegoLady3732 reads

Hello Guz,

I am a San Diego lady who only will discuss the amount of time you would like to spend.  I have the amounts posted on my website for the expected fee for different times.  I always ask my dates "how much time would you like me to spend with you"?  Occassionally I will tell them 2 hours is $$$ or 3 hours are $$$$, but generally will direct them back to my site if they inquire about the amount of time/fee....

I also do not have my phone number listed on my site, as I get so many random calls that go no where and keep my phone going off the hook, so I prefer e-mails and respond to gentlement who simply follow my protocol, and I respond as fast as I can to those gents in order to capture the call before someone else does before me as we all know that guys usually start with a list as many ladies are slow to respond.  

But if you treat your date, like a date, and never say anything you wouldn't say on a regular date, you should be fine.  That is the experience I most enjoy and so do most of the guys I meet.

I would also stick with ladies who are well reviewed and reviewed by hobbyists that have a record as well.  A fairly enthusiastic hobbyist was recently caught in a sting in San Diego because he went after a lady that had only 2 reviews, many people had exposed her ad on the discussion board a couple weeks previously, but he missed it, and got nailed.  

Generally, a small misdemeanor does not warrant the amount of effort it would take to track you through your e-mails by hacking you that way.  Just not cost effective or efficient enough.

You filling out a form and sending email could make you either a voyeur or a seriously hot guy. Anyone trying to trap you would only get you when you end up in a room with the woman offering her money for sex acts. There is no law against voyeurism unless you do something like getting caught outside someone's window performing lewd acts.

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