Thanks to all who responded to my post, and to the lovely (and lickable) Vicki for posting it for me.
I'm pleased that there hasn't (as of yet) been any animosity about what I wrote.
Well, enough rambling.
Warm wishes to all for a happy and safe 2005.
Morgan Ellis
-- Modified on 1/5/2005 3:33:07 PM
i always love the conversations on this board so I bring to you another topic I'm interested in
An escort friend of mine wrote this excellent commentary and I would love to hear your opinions
At Cross Purposes
I know I’ve said this before - in fact, I’m sure most of you reading this are sick of hearing it - but I really do like being an escort. There’s more to it than that, though.
I feel a sense of satisfaction in knowing that someone coming to see me has received value in exchange for what they’ve paid me. I want them to leave happy, feeling that they not only enjoyed themselves, but that they were treated fairly. I take pride in being an escort, pride in doing my job (and yes, it is a job. No matter how much we dress it up, this is how I make money, and that makes it a job). I understand that, beneath all of the other rationales for what this is, what we do when we’re together, how it makes us both feel, we’ve exchanged money for time. It’s important to me to feel like anyone who has entered into this kind of exchange with me leaves feeling that I accurately represented myself to them, and gave them good value for their money.
I know other women, other escorts, who feel the same as I do. In fact, I’d venture to say that the great majority of the women I know feel this way, if for no other reason than it merely makes excellent marketing sense to do everything in your power to encourage repeat clientele. For some, it transcends this into something approaching art. The art of using your body as an instrument, the art of being a courtesan.
I see in clients what I choose to bring to the time I spend with them. If I bring anticipation of time well spent, then, so long as the client is reasonable and of a like mind set, chances are we’re going to enjoy the company of each other. If I bring a bad mind set, one which expects disappointment and misery, then this would inevitably be what I’d receive from our time together.
The same holds true for clients. If you come to me with bitterness and anger, and with an expectation of being ‘ripped off’, a supposition that you’re just ‘wasting your money’, then it’s a foregone conclusion that you’re going to leave with a bitter taste in your mouth. That taste? You brought it with you, so you carry it when you leave.
Escorts and clients share a particularly symbiotic relationship. As an escort, I need clients to fuel my work. I don’t exist as an escort, if I do not have clients. As a client, you need escorts for the fulfillment and companionship we provide. If you didn't, you'd save the $240 and entertain yourself. Why, then, do we so often have to see each other as adversaries?
A long and drawn out thread on Terb recently reiterated for me how truly at cross purposes most of us seem to be. The men were convinced of the unreliability of the statistics of most escorts - convinced that we lie, almost all of the time. Convinced, in fact, that no matter what an escort says she weighs, measures, does, looks like, studies, it’s all lies. We obviously can’t be trusted. We’re not like ‘other’ women. We’re the enemy, and they need to be able to decode our secret messages.
Well, fair enough. A lot of escorts do lie, in lots of little ways. A year here, a pound there, an inch or two over there. Maybe this is deserved. Of course, clients lie in ways large and small, as well.
A payment left, which was $50 short? Accidental, of course. Asking you out, in spite of that wedding ring? They’re separated, or will be soon. Come on - do it without a condom. He’s clean, he’s never done this before, honest - would he lie?
So maybe it’s fair for escorts to be doubtful, as well. Maybe we both need to regard each other with a small amount of what might look like skepticism, but is actually something closer to emotional honesty. Some escorts lie in small ways, some clients need to shower more often. Fair trade. Let’s all work on that together, shall we?
But the anger.. The anger is another story. The clients who hate us, despise us, loathe us. The ones who drip bitterness is every word they write. “Heartless rip off bitches”. “They lie about everything”. “If they say they’re a student, that means they’re studying how to be a crack head”. The sheer and utter anger in every word they write. We’re the enemy, and this is war.
And you, my sisters - some of you share the blame for this. The women who do lie - who use photos that aren’t yours, ‘skim’ 100 pounds off of your weight, promise the moon and then deliver nothing but disappointment. The bait and switch and out right rip offs of the con women who think that any man who calls an escort is a sucker who deserves to be fleeced. The hatred of who they are, what they do, and most of all, of the men they see.
But these aren’t the majority of us - of either of us, clients or escorts. Most of us are good . Good escorts who really want to do their best to be fair in their descriptions, outstanding at what they do, kind in their treatment of the men they entertain. Good clients who respect the women they see, appreciate what we do, enjoy the time we spend.
We need to keep that in mind, I think. We need to remember - all of us need to remember - that we’re not the enemies of each other. We’re two halves of the same whole.
Morgan
A very insiteful message, Morgan.
We all need to remember, we need each other.
We are "business" partners.
As in all things, there are good partners and bad partners.
You ladies treasure the good clients as we treasure the good ladies we meet.
Sometimes it takes a lot o research on our part to find the "right" lady. I know that that's my situation. The ladies I have seen or want to see, are ones that I have done a lot of research about and I know who they are and that they are safe, positive ladies.
A great post Morgan,. Lots of good thoughts that we can all relate to.
just my opinion...
B
very well put! eom
"let the buyer beware" is important as some ladies do make it tougher for all. However, many ladies are really kind and wonderful to know.
Amen to this post. And thank goodness for this board so that the problems mentioned can be somewhat filtered out. And guys, we should not be concerned that references are necessary as the providers need protection too. How many bad incidents have been reported that could have been avoided? The ladies requesting references almost always are the best. When they are comfortable we get the best service. As to the providers that lie or cheat--they won't be around long. Word gets out. I don't think we are adversaries, we just both need to be careful, respectful and we will all have a good time.
As a newbie, I've had a lot of fun with this hobby. In all this has been a great experience. Have I shown up and a provider is a bit heavier than billed? Yes. Has a provider not performed as billed? Yes. But so what? It was still a fun and enjoyable experience even if the provider was 10 pounds heavier.
We try to do as much research on a provider as possible. If for some reason it doesn't turn out exactly the way we had hoped, so what? So we don't use that provider again and we're out $300. In the scheme of things, what's $300? If you can't bare to part with $300 for one mediocre experience you shouldn't be in this hobby.
Great Post, the 2 ladies i liked to see on a long term basis are the best and we work together to have a good experience. Occassionally i will venture and try a new provider. The results are usually a diseaster. Today the provider sent by an agency i normally trust was 1/2 my age, just wanted the cash, and even though an adult by law was still a child stuck in 9th grade who had pulled a fast one on an adult. So today i learned the meaning of took one for the team and will stay my regular girls even if it means waiting for one of them to be available. I have a good relationship w/my regular providers and wonderful experiences. So in a way it is not just the act but the moments of time around the act.
...don't consider any of you adversaries, and I certainly don't hate any of you. Your very presence, "out there" and here on these boards, has given me back a joy for life that I thought I'd never see again. I try to hope that the time you spend with me isn't secretly excruciating for you, and if you get nothing out of our time together in terms of satisfaction, I hope that at least I leave you feeling, "Well, there are worse ways to earn $$$."
We all know you ladies screen. Well, I screen too in my own way, mostly through your emails. So far I've only met 6 of you in person, but at this point I'm 6 for 6 as far as meeting pretty decent human beings.
Any *good* relationship is good for both people involved, and any good business deal is a win/win for both parties. This is how I've always felt about my personal relationships and my business dealings.
Stepping back and taking "cold, hard" look at it, the client/escort relationship is (probably among other things)a unique blend of both a personal and business relationship. If it isn't good for both parties, it's good for neither. Morgan's points are extremely appreciated.
Thanks for bringing them to us, Vicki. Speaking for myself, I have enjoyed and appreciated every woman I've met through the hobby, and feel more like a co-conspirator in a really special endeavor with them than an adversary.
Thanks Vicki for the post and thanks to your friend Morgan for her viewpoint and a valuable message for all in dealing with people, whether it be in the hobby or in all aspects of one's life.
Sure, there are rip-off artists in the business, but, then, there are car dealers who lie and cheat and lawyers who steal from clients and MD's who are incompetent and charge for tests never done.... But these are the vast minority of any profession/trade....
Great point about those who come to the provider angry and anticipating a rip off. With an attitude like that, what can they expect. I always try to go to a new provider with as much info as I can gather from TER, but, more importantly, an attitude of, well, this could be fun! It usually is. And even when it is disappointing, I try to see the best side of it -- wow, she was hot, and even though no bj, it was fun to watch her minister to the major! Or, well, she took my cash and fled, but I was not hurt and she will get hers someday....
Attitude is everything. Go with a smile, cum with a smile, I always say.... MA
I have been feeling the same way for quite some time. Thank you, well said.
but Vicki's excellent and insightful post (thank you, by the way) unfortunately misses a vital point: the dichotomy of the male mind.
We men can be strange creatures, indeed. So much has been said over the years about how inscrutable and unpredictable are the moods of women, but being a member of this board, as well as this gender, has given me some insights into men that may have slipped under the radar.
On first glance, the animosity between hobbyist and provider doesn't make sense at all. It's no more understandable than hating one's tax accountant or one's barber. So why? Why this animosity? I think it may have to do with the roles we're either wired or taught to play. There's more to sex than the mixing of genetic material. There's an entire dance. Men compete for the woman's favor, and she selects the winner.
But, in a hobbyist-provider relationship (barring creeps and the like), every competitor wins. As such, there's an underlying knowledge in the man's mind that he wasn't chosen; he bought his way in. In a normal dynamic, when the act is complete, the man understands he was given this opportunity because there was something about him that attracted his partner, even if only for the moment; for one reason or another, he was selected from all the other suitors. But, when the act is finished between a hobbyist and a provider, the man must accept that he really wasn't special at all.
It's interesting to read the board and note the number of posts regarding relationships developing between providers and their clients. The idea that a provider might actually harbor some true feelings for a particular client is very appealing to that man. It raises him above the rest and says there's something special about him.
I imagine everyone’s scratching their head about now, and wondering if LOW’s medication has worn off. So, here's my point:
We all know this at one level or another. And most of us are fine with it. But, there are those men who, without even knowing why, respond with anger or animosity toward these women whom they perceive as regarding them as being no more valuable than the next man. For these men, this reaction occurs irrespective of the treatment they receive from the provider; possibly even irrespective of the fact that the provider might actually find them attractive and even likable.
Most of us here have an abiding regard for our female counterparts, accepting their offers of pleasure and companionship at face value, relishing the moment, and wandering off into the night richer than when we began. Many of us develop deep and lasting friendships with the ladies who are so kind to us. We are able to keep our sexual activities in perspective, and see the woman as a whole person who has thoughts and opinions and loves and fears. We're the lucky ones.
But there are those men who insist on having an adversary, even if it's the very woman doing her best to make them happy. I'm afraid that's never going to change.
-- Modified on 1/5/2005 11:40:06 AM
part of some men to the realization of the fact that a provider, while she may enjoy his uniqueness, is very unlikely to see him as being as "special" as he may want. Keeping what is actually happening with a provider in perspective is indeed the best course.
Enjoy the encounter, but do not insist that she see you as "special". Then go on with real life.
-- Modified on 1/5/2005 3:16:05 PM
Even the more "seasoned" hobbiests I've talked with will cop to a nagging disappointment upon finding out that the women we "love" don't love us as much in return. Hell, truth be told, most of 'em wouldn't recognize you if they saw you in the mall-- and women are better at that sort'a thing than us guys.
Yep, it's that hundreds-of-guys fact that we hundreds of guys just gott'a get used to. Until we do, our egos are pained-- some a little, some a Lot-- and pain causes sadness and anger.
But give up that possessivness, embrace the "service," and remember we "pay 'em to go away," and it all get's liberating and fun again.
Morgan, Vick-- I'm eager to work with you anytime.
That was an awesome post. The conclusion quoted is exactly what Plato/Socrates theorized. When we come together, it is exactly what we were put on this planet to do.
"When we come together, it is exactly what we were put on this planet to do."
Well, that and hump like wild monkeys.
Morgan
Thanks to all who responded to my post, and to the lovely (and lickable) Vicki for posting it for me.
I'm pleased that there hasn't (as of yet) been any animosity about what I wrote.
Well, enough rambling.
Warm wishes to all for a happy and safe 2005.
Morgan Ellis
-- Modified on 1/5/2005 3:33:07 PM
hey chica,
good to see you around here, i love the poem you wrote about "what is wrong with my size"
that's hot
vicki
Y'know, you're lucky you're not bi, or I'd *so* come to Boston and do ya.
See you on LJ.
Morgan
A very nice analysis of what goes on behind the transaction.
BTW, the gents in T.O. have no idea how good they have it. One of the best places to hobby-anywhere-and a great city to boot.
It'll be better once hockey is back...I miss my Leafs!
ps:
Q: why do Canadians prefer their sex doggy style?
A: That way you both get to watch the hockey game.
You know what if an escort lies to me and I dont now all the best. everyone lies escort, hobbiest, ceo of major corparation. I love seeing these beautifal women and treat them as the angels they are when I see a provider. If she lies to me great if the says I am a stud and she thinks I am not I think its sweet. My rules
A) Treat a provider like you would treat an amazing and gorgeous women
b) Dont be an idiot she is a provider and dont try to cross the line
C) ALWAYS pay the agreed donationa and if really good TIP. My god you tip a waitress for bringing you food a women who makes you feel like king fo the world deserves a little too.
D) IF your happy tell her, if she is hot TELL her. If she is not shut up enjoy yourself and live and learn worse things in life
How many of the adversarial issues would be eliminated or reduced by legalization and regulation of the industry.
TET
None, ... ripoffs would still be con artists scaming money, and bad clients would still be jerks
the only difference would be that we could all be equally adversarial against the government involvement; none of us want to play by their rules and regulations
think of the licenses, taxes, fees, bureaucratic red tape, policies and procedures to follow, no thanks
we are doing just fine policing our own; eventually the polite well mannered gentleman will find the exceptional service of a wonderful provider and enter into that symbiotic business relationship
hope I wasn't too adversarial, I like that word now, I'm going to use at work all day tomorrow
tales of old men who died with a smile on their faces while in the sheets with a very young woman. If I could choose a way to go, I would simply add to history's archive.
...but I'm just very unlucky with them. You always post them when I have little time to think and answer them. Like tomorrow I start work four hours earlier than usual, and I'm already just about worn out tonight.
It often angers me how hostile many hobbyists are to providers. When I sense it, I don't keep my contempt for it a secret. There are many reasons for this, social, psychological and, finally, biological. LoverofWomen in his post had a marvelous insight into this: that men resent the fact that even though they desire sex, there is an emotional void to receiving the reward in exchange for money, and they resent the provider for it. (To this thinking, I rebutt: for any animal, the ability and willingness to give resources is one of the primary reasons females will select males with sex, so the reward of it does mean something, these losers just can't associate it to money.)
Nevertheless, I think it goes deeper than that, because if providers find themselves adversaries with their men, many wives get treated like that too, in fact, IMHO, too many get treated like that to really put the treatment of providers in a separate category...
And I'm afraid, I'm falling asleep as I write. I will have to continue this tomorrow night, or start the thread again...
Meanwhile, keep up the excellent posts, honey!
/Zin
So happy you are doing much much better !!! Amazing Post... So true. I just sent this out to maybe about 30 providers I am in touch with on the net !
[email protected]
(i cannot answer private mail here.. having issues with my cc company and they havent taken off my security code after freakin 2 months !)
I feel this tension between clients and providers a lot, but I think when meeting a stranger, you always need to be careful, regardless of your sex. When we meet new people in this hobby, all we know about them is that they will hobby...and nothing else. That is a reason to be on gaurd a bit at first.
I do see where some providers start to hate clients and vise versa. I've actually had to skim down my clientele quite a bit because of all the anger I had to face that was really meant for other women that are capable of doing things that I am not.
I do feel extremely satisfied with my work when the person knows enough to have an idea of what he has in his hands and how to use it. I feel like what I have to offer is a waste to those that dont understand as well what I do. I also feel like offering it to those who dont understand it is an invitation for misuse.
Also, I do see a huge difference between those who mostly see me for escort services and those that mostly see me for BDSM. The BDSM clients usually are much less angry. The irony is that the ones that beat me and humiliate me in play are the ones that treat me with the most respect.