My objection to the word itself is because I find it to be politically correct and also un-needed; a solution in search of a problem.
For the record, I'm a heterosexual male who fully supports LGBT rights. I think they should be able to pee wherever they prefer. The problem is that, simply because I objected to this new word, some people then leapt to the assumption that I had a problem with gay and trans people. Those who felt that way really should look in the mirror when you accuse anyone else of being prejudiced. I don't include Ivy among them because her words on the subject seemed totally reasonable.
In that regard I did find Sasha's reaction sad and prejudiced because she piled assumption upon false assumption based in a complete mis-reading of what I said. What I wrote to her (that never went up because the thread was vaporized) was "This new word of yours does not even describe any transgender person. It describes me. And it adds nothing to the language that didn't already exist.
You assume that because I don't like the word I don't "understand and accept" your existence and I have "narrow views and bigotry." Why? Simply because I don't agree a particular new term really needed to be created?
What about the fact that I completely accept all gay, bi and transgender people? I even support your right to piss wherever you want. I also supported your effort to become Miss TER. And I have always supported your posts here.
But because I don't see the need for this new term I'm a bigot and "ignorant." If I'm really a bigot I guess you could use a few more similarly bigoted supporters in this world."
I do agree it was an interesting and useful thread and think TER was wrong to delete it. Enough said.
So, an interesting topic was brought up on the General forum, regarding use of the word "cisgender", and it seems a couple people take offense to it.
The convos were deleted, as they strayed from the actual post topic, but I think it's something that really should be discussed.
It seems that a few people do take offense to the word, as they believe that trans folk are "forcing" them to identify as such.
This intrigues me.
Certainly, we cannot discount someone's feelings, as just because something doesn't affect us, that doesn't mean it doesn't affect others.
What I'm curious about, is WHY someone would be offended by a legitimate word and definition, when it is neither inflammatory or derogatory.
Cisgender simply refers to someone whose perceived gender identity matches their sex.
Transgender refers to someone whose gender identity does not conform to their sex.
Like...that's all, really.
I don't know of anyone who is forcing people to identify as either, but there are people who seem to be legitimately offended by being referred to one or the other.
Personally, I don't identify as "trans" as everything seems to be correct for me. I'm merely a woman.
Anyone who actually knows me would agree.
I just happen to have a penis.
Sounds to me like thinly veiled transphobia. Another excuse for some people to be upset by other people's lifestyles. So what if there's a word to define something? Ignore it and move of if you don't like it.
I honestly don't think it is, in this case.
While I agree with you, on simply moving on, I am unfortunately a curious kitty who wants to know the real truth inside a person.
Color me, kill, as I am a cat.
I don't know what the deal is with GaG...he's a pretty open-minded guy and a straight shooter...but for some reason, the term "cisgender" sets him off. I don't know why, and as a matter of fact, I don't think he really knows why either. LOL, I had to look up the term recently, as I never knew what it meant. Anyhow, that's the trouble with labels; they help us define our existence and our experiences, but they can also bring about prejudice and hurt feelings. Us human beings are too goddamn intelligent and emotional for our own good.
It really doesn't matter who it is.
As far as Gambler goes, I admire people who are unafraid to speak their minds, as long as they're sincere and not just trolling.
And he certainly seems to take all that he dishes out, which is something I also admire and have respect for, in people.
It seems that there are those who would dictate what should be thought, and many are not OK with that, as they shouldn't necessarily be.
I suppose that is where some of the offense stems from.
I agree with you about the labels. They can often do more harm than good.
-- Modified on 6/9/2016 11:23:17 AM
I didn't see the original discussion before it got nuked.
I think "cisgender" is a useful term, but if your goal is reaching people who aren't familiar with trans issues, or who are outright hostile to trans people, then any benefit in clarity you get from using the word gets erased by the confusion you create from using an unfamiliar term.
In conversation and my writing, I use the word "cisgender" and "cis" when I'm talking with trans people.
But when I'm talking with people who aren't trans, I avoid using the terms.
Good topic to bring up! Perfect for this community during Pride Month. Thanks!
Cisgender simply refers to someone whose perceived gender identity matches his or her sexual body parts. So if I man identifies himself as a man but likes to suck dick and have sex with other men, he as much cisgender as another man who regards himself as male and likes pussy.
That is a cisgender man may be homosexual or heterosexual. Cisgender refers to his self-identity, not how he expresses his sexuality.
One way to think of it is that gender identity (transgender / cisgender) is totally separate from sexual orientation (gay / straight / bi).
Bingo!
As Jessica said, gender identity/expression is not the same as sexual preference.
You could refer to me as a "transgender woman" (or just a woman, if you please) but as far as my sexuality goes...I am simply "sexual". As in...I like sex and if you're attracted to me, and I'm attracted to you....let's get it on!
I simply don't care if you identify/express yourself as a man, a woman, a tree, or a tomato.
As long as we're into each other.
My objection to the word itself is because I find it to be politically correct and also un-needed; a solution in search of a problem.
For the record, I'm a heterosexual male who fully supports LGBT rights. I think they should be able to pee wherever they prefer. The problem is that, simply because I objected to this new word, some people then leapt to the assumption that I had a problem with gay and trans people. Those who felt that way really should look in the mirror when you accuse anyone else of being prejudiced. I don't include Ivy among them because her words on the subject seemed totally reasonable.
In that regard I did find Sasha's reaction sad and prejudiced because she piled assumption upon false assumption based in a complete mis-reading of what I said. What I wrote to her (that never went up because the thread was vaporized) was "This new word of yours does not even describe any transgender person. It describes me. And it adds nothing to the language that didn't already exist.
You assume that because I don't like the word I don't "understand and accept" your existence and I have "narrow views and bigotry." Why? Simply because I don't agree a particular new term really needed to be created?
What about the fact that I completely accept all gay, bi and transgender people? I even support your right to piss wherever you want. I also supported your effort to become Miss TER. And I have always supported your posts here.
But because I don't see the need for this new term I'm a bigot and "ignorant." If I'm really a bigot I guess you could use a few more similarly bigoted supporters in this world."
I do agree it was an interesting and useful thread and think TER was wrong to delete it. Enough said.
Not having been part of the original thread, your explanation seems perfectly reasonable to me. In my original post on this topic I said who cares if there's a new word to describe something. I'm cisgendered but this may be the first time I've used the word to describe myself. Just doesn't seem like a big deal at all that the word exists....
I've gotten along fine without it and see no reason for a new, made-up word. What's wrong with gay, straight, bi or transgender? The last of these is a good example of a word that needed to be invented (for want of a better word), in order to describe another way of expressing sexuality.
PS: I'm not a fan of Genetic Girl either, but it doesn't bug me as much as cisgender.
Thank you, Jake.
I figured that both you and Gambler had no real issue with us, as people.
My curiosity was genuine as to why you (and others, it seems) take offense to the word and i was a little bummed that the thread got nuked, but I also understand that it deviated from the actual post topic.
I wanted to reach out to you, and continue the conversation, like I did with Gambler. I'm sorry, I simply didn't have the time.
As for Sasha...I don know her, but we can all go on the defensive, sometimes. We all make mistakes.
I think what sets some people apart from others (and I am not speaking of ANYONE in particular) is our willingness to admit our faults and offer genuine apologies, and work toward rectifying a situation.
Thanks for piping up.
I personally like Sasha. She's bright and funny and a very good presence on the boards, so I was disappointed at her judgmentalness on this issue. I think she responded in the heat of the moment without reading what I said (and didn't say) carefully. I suspect it can happen to someone who's been subjected to prejudice on an issue. Besides, she's 2cute so I can't be mad.