This "man in the sky" kinnard has really got to go the way of the dodo bird.
Virtually no one believes in "a man in the sky". Talk about strawmen!! When you see a picture depicting "the big bang" is that the ACTUAL big bang? Of course not! Just like when you see ARTIST RENDERINGS of God, it's not saying that is God, it's just an artists rendering. As long as DA keeps knocking down the Man In The Sky strawman, he'll still be a dodo. Do farts exist? Draw a picture of one!! Get my point?-- Modified on 5/29/2014 10:33:08 AM
Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow;
it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess.
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.
Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.
Remember, Christianity existed before Jesus. 
But it's possible in pimpathy's alternate world. That's exactly what he said to me couple months ago and I'm just repeating it. I'll admit though pimples kinda grew on me and it's becoming more of a jest than mockery. I used to get all pissed from all the stupid enigmatic shit he says but now I just find them amusing. Like when fungy drops a few f-bombs and calls people shit heads, the effect wore off after the dozens time and it just became more hilarious than anything. Rofl
It's fun to talk like pimples, but I wouldn't recommend doing it too frequently if you plan on passing mensa tests, if you get my drift.
I was talking about faith, not religion...
Hebrews 11-3
By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible
It's amazing what science discovered. You can actually place reasonable restrictions on what god can and can not do if there is a god. Therefore, not everything is possible with god.
Also, praying to god has outcomes about the same as tossing a coin into a wishing well
any more than there are limits to imagination.
God is a creation of man's imagination and there are no more limits to what God can do, than there are limits to the imagination that created said God in the first place.
Nowhere in this thread are we talking about religion.
God and faith are not religion. Is faith fair
You are correct sir!!
God is a creation of man's imagination and there are no more limits to what God can do, than there are limits to the imagination that created said God in the first place.
You're right, there are no limits to either. But, God created man and gave him imagination. Therefore God cannot be a creation of man's imagination.
Do you imagine dinosaurs imagined
Sorry, but an argument based on a false premise is no argument at all. I maintain that man created God, not the other way around. Considering that man has created hundreds, actually thousands of "Gods" many of them claiming to be the "One True God" I would say that my argument holds a lot more water than yours. By being mutually exclusive, it is an inarguable FACT that billions of people believe in a false God.
For one to be right, all the others must be wrong. It seems a lot more likely from an objective point of view that it is much more likely that ALL religion is wrong, rather than one religion getting it right while all the others are wrong.
But no one knows "what came before that", even you rely on faith not fact. Does the notion that NOTHING EXISTED before the Big Bang satisfy you? That seems to be the best science can offer.
""""It seems a lot more likely from an objective point of view that it is much more likely that ALL religion is wrong, rather than one religion getting it right while all the others are wrong.""""
I would be of the belief that this is at least partially true, in that any individual religion claiming EXCLUSIVITY are wrong on that point. This is man made church dogma, or "religion" run amock.
Any true scientist has to admit to the limits of mans ability to comprehend the totality of things, so must the "believer". I think of it like the spokes on a wheel, or if you will, a circular firing squad (lol) wherein everyone is describing (or shooting at) the same thing but coming at it from different perspectives, be they cultural or otherwise. None of them are correct in claiming exclusivity anymore than a scientist is correct in claiming "it can't be done"
Claiming that "science has all the answers" is just as ridiculous as religion claiming the same. Actually it is even more ridiculous when someone like DA makes these types of claims, as the very foundation of science is "disbelief" until proven otherwise. Most scientists, and virtually all the good ones will carefully couch their words when making these types of statements as they know that as the available data changes, so must their conclusions.
To rule out that "something" had a plan and created what we know as the universe is a rather arrogant POV IMO. The universe is so vast, the distances so long, and the age so old as to barely even been measurable in terms that the average human can understand. This doesn't even entertain the possibility (probability IMO)n that there is something else outside of our known universe that could dwarf our universe the same way the universe dwarfs us. No human really has the mental capacity to process all of this, certainly not some drunk chink.lol
We just don't have all the answers, and I can live with that. I can also live with the knowledge that most likely we NEVER will have all the answers, but that doesn't mean that we should stop asking the questions and searching for as many answers as our puny little human brains can fathom.
for starting a thread, that planted the seed, that resulted in such profound wisdom.
Organized religion (or any religion for that matter) has almost nothing to do with an attempt to understand the origin and destiny of space and time or the universe or whatever else it might be that contains our existence. Religion was created by man, for man and I agree with NGBF that they are all wrong. Claims by religions that "their" God was responsible for the creation this previously cited "container of us" are required in order for their philosophy to have a chance of making sense to themselves. I have no problem with people taking that course, whatever works for them. Of course they (religions) have done both good things and bad things all under their religious umbrella, but those good and bad things would have happened with or without the religion because in the end it was people doing the good and bad.
The extremes of both the true believers (Gnostic-Theists) and the total non-believers (Atheists) can be equally loony. Those that claim to have science on their side when declaring God does not exist are in no way “believers in” or “understanding of” science.
When scientific method can prove God does not exist then I will rethink my standing as an Agnostic-Theist. Even then we shouldn't rule out the possibility that science may have at that point simply reached the pinnacle of its own limitations. Mankind's present scientific knowledge is not even a thimble full of water in a Googolplex worth of oceans.
Until then I will hope to continue to have faith in something greater than myself or greater than any human. The possibility that something other than chaos or random chance was responsible for "this" remains too great to ignore. In the spirit of true science, I'll try to keep an open mind
That's my stance as well. Intelligent design, probably.
Except I reject the typical invisible man up in the sky "mono-theism" .
Creator could be the whole universe itself existing all around us in several dimensions. That's why we never hear from this deity and our prayers never make much difference...cuz he ain't listening,
this creator just is
We are barely even starting to comprehend just how vast our own "known" universe is, we are most likely further away from understanding just what's "out there" than a child raised on a small island with no way off, understand just how big the world is. and with our lifespans so short, and our ability to understand so limited, it's unlikely we will ever do more than scratch the surface.
This "man in the sky" kinnard has really got to go the way of the dodo bird.
Virtually no one believes in "a man in the sky". Talk about strawmen!!
When you see a picture depicting "the big bang" is that the ACTUAL big bang? Of course not! Just like when you see ARTIST RENDERINGS of God, it's not saying that is God, it's just an artists rendering.
As long as DA keeps knocking down the Man In The Sky strawman, he'll still be a dodo.
Do farts exist?
Draw a picture of one!!
Get my point?
-- Modified on 5/29/2014 10:33:08 AM
who still believe literally the teachings of both the Koran and the Bible, they literally believe in an "invisible man in the sky" and they believe that believing in their version of the fairy tale is important enough to kill or die for.
DA might still be a dodo, I will grant you that, but the "Man in the sky" argument is no strawman. If you doubt me, come visit me in the Bible Belt and go to one of those "holy roller" churches, you would be amazed. and they are easy to find, there is one on virtually every corner. I know it's hared to believe that people still buy into this shit in the 21st century, but it's true.
its mostly Surfers For Jesus in my parts
So their God is a trinity with one deity looking like human and the other two no one has seen. In one passage Jesus claims to have seen god but in another passage, he claims none has seen the father. As always, bible is full of contradictions.
So according to holy bible, Jesus came down from heaven, talks to himself calls himself god, even though he's actually the son , but later accuses god of forsaking him when he died on the cross. So if I couldn't save my self, I guess I will blame the father side of me cuz I'm the son who is technically the Lord as well. LMAO
Makes perfect sense, the Christian god looks like a human yet he talks to himself...
I guess that's much more sane than talking to trees.
and Jesus would have been a great Buddhist! He was definitely liberal, no debate.
He was for personal responsibility, didn't take a government check when unemployed, didn't believe in tax increases, helped the poor without one government program, was pro-hetero marriage, he ate animals, he healed the sick without Obamacare, fed the hungry without food stamps, discriminated against women, was against prostitution and the kicker....wait for it...He believed in God! LOL
ccording to the bible, He said "my god my god, why have you forsaken me?" right before he died.
Any idiot with half a brain can see that Jesus isn't and was not ever a god but just a carpenter and a mangina
I am pretty sure that he would be against Wall Street if he was an American. He would probably come back low in status, maybe an Iraqi or Mexican. Whatever the case, we would probably kill him again and he would be hated by the church and government again.
Jesus said give to Casear what belongs to government. Also pretty sure that Jesus would be in the streets with the drug addicts and whorers if he came back. He wouldn't be in the pretty temples where people want to be adorned for their dresses, status and charity.
FYI~ there was no government programs to help during the Great Depression. Ask any survivors about the suffering when weevils got their crops and they almost starved to death, when there was no one or government to offer help. I had a great Aunt that died at 5 years old from no doctors care during the Great Depression. She choked to death while they watched helplessly.
Your statement "Also pretty sure that Jesus would be in the streets with the drug addicts and whorers if he came back" actually helps my point not yours.
You seem to suggest that the mere act of Jesus "being with them" means he would condone those actions. I would argue strongly the opposite. Clearly he railed against prostitution. In today's society, that would be a conservative view point not liberal.
And your point about "Jesus said give to Casear what belongs to government," once again, helps my argument. Jesus didn't concern himself with the machinations of government. He believed in the power of the individual, not the state. Today's statists are liberals, are they not?
But we do agree, if he came back, we would kill him again. There isn't any room on the this planet for peace, love and looking out for your brother/sister, at least in most parts of the world.
This is one of the most ridiculous posts I've think I've ever read. Imagine applying the principles of the 21st century to biblical times. Maybe you're being sarcastic....I hope.
Well maybe a little. LOL. Jesus wasn't a political man so we are all just speculating. Ms. Ohare said Jesus was "definitely liberal, no debate."
I would argue, from what we do know about his life, he held more positions that we would call "conservative" by today's definition of the term, than Liberal ones.
Make the other side of the argument for me and we'll compare.
Law and the Prophets. That's pretty conservative. Though Jesus many have allowed himself to be in the company of prostitutes, Samaritans, and others rejected by the religious authorities, he expected them, as he did the rich, to turn their backs on the lives they lived, to live according to the Law and Prophets, and follow him. Now, it wasn't until Jesus the risen Christ, if you believe in Him, revealed himself to Saul of Taurus, who afterwards took the name Paul, that things got more liberal; like the acceptance of the Gentile believers into the Kingdom of God, and being accepted as Children of God.
To proclaim facts about Jesus, and Jesus Christ, you really must study your Bible more in-depth. 
I have studied and I believe that Jesus existed in history but many parts are deleted, altered and propagandized.
I feel in my heart that he reached Christhood, and possibly after many incarnations. I don't believe he is the only one, therefore I can't be part of Christianity and organized religion.
I believe simple, that we have many reincarnations of life, until our karma debt is settled. We return because we love life! And maybe sometimes just to assist another soul for a short while. But I do believe we choose to come here, we choose our parents, we choose our bodies. We choose our course ahead of time.
Have a great day Matt!
You're not old enough to be a "flower child" of the sixties, but you sure remind me of the ones I remember from Golden Gate Park and Haight Ashbury from "back in the day"
Let me guess, you used to do a lot of acid, right?
try any acid. I do smoke very good weed. Drugs I have done in the past cocaine, prescription opiates, prescription anti-depressants and anti-anxiety, heroin, heroin based ecstasy, old school red rock crank. Not proud.